The Affair Boat

[dreamingoftigers]

That reminds me of one of my favorite jokes: The beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

Can't imagine why that doesn't work!

 

.

 

I remember one night H came home spewing venom at me the second he got in the door blaming for this and that etc. Then he wanted to have a bar-be-que like 30 seconds later. I was so pissed off. I just said something along the lines of "oh Hell no, not when you are like that to me." and so he got mad and blasted back "see, that's what I was talking about, you can't even be happy for 2 minutes!"

 

Now if I see that mood coming up the walkway, I don't stay around it. He deals with it. I am not anybody's dumping ground.

[dreamingoftigers]

What a great post DOT. I have been enjoying reading this thread. I know my withholding affection led to m H's A's, no doubt about that, but I felt emotionally abandoned far before I started to withhold. I didn't quite understand the term "withholding" at the time I just knew I was not attracted to my H or emotionally connected to want to have sex with him and so went our downward spiral.

 

He had me believing that I was a non-sexual person, hell I even felt non-sexual at the time, just had a baby and he was out and about at all hours of the day and night avoiding me and new fatherhood. I was abandoned. Then he would want sex and I wouldn't be in the mood:rolleyes: He wasn't contributing financially, we had some other issues I cannot discuss because of TMI but real life stressors that would probably shake most marital foundations.

 

It wasn't until his A's that I became enraged and I went on my own tirade and had myself an A. Guess what... I felt sexual again. I felt attracted to someone else again. I was getting my emotional needs met, but not in a morally correct way.

 

Today I am focusing on my M and my H. We have been having more sex and I have been enjoying the sex as is he. We are reconnecting again emotionally and physically day by day. He is participating as a parent more and is financially contributing as much as myself if not more.

 

I am thankful for the shift that occurred in our M, otherwise we would still be miserable or possibly divorced. It took BOTH of us to make it work. BOTH of us communicating better and no more resenting the other. I always ask my H

how I can be a better spouse and he in turn does the same. We have a constant checks and balances of our M now.

 

Thank you LD. it is so amazing how we can get so much more wrapped up in each other and so reactive when things go wrong when that is when we need our wits about us the most!

[StoneCold]

Wow, trying to fill the void much? LOL.

 

No we are not complicated. You are slow. Ha ha.

 

We are actually not anywhere near as complicated as men would like to believe we are. We just don't think the same way, but once you crack the code it is easy street.

 

Guys just don't crack the code very often because patience isn't your strong suit.

 

And you guys actually overload emotionally (thanks to cortisol) far more easily.

 

I always thought it was funny how guys historically could go out, fight wars, plow a field all day, lift heavy stuff, chop off other people's arms and stuff or get their arms chopped off, do hard labor and be just fine.

 

Then go home to their wives who are 50 lbs less then them and a lot tinier and all she has to say is, "we need to talk. You don't appreciate me."

 

And all of a sudden Super-Man has been hit with his Kryptonite.

 

lol thats because with women its never straight forward..up isnt necessarily up; same for down , left and right. Its all this unnesessary round about and for some reason they just dont want to say what they mean. This is not good communication at all..its flat out annoying because we see it as so unnessecary.

 

I'll give you a tip DOT... us guys...we dont want to crack no freaking un called for code; we aren't scooby do, ok. We just want to get right to the point so that we can get on with our lives...

 

mind boggling... you would take a chance with the well being of your marriage all for the sake of a code that will do nothing for you?

[dreamingoftigers]

lol thats because with women its never straight forward..up isnt necessarily up; same for down , left and right. Its all this unnesessary round about and for some reason they just dont want to say what they mean. This is not good communication at all..its flat out annoying because we see it as so unnessecary.

 

I'll give you a tip DOT... us guys...we dont want to crack no freaking un called for code; we aren't scooby do, ok. We just want to get right to the point so that we can get on with our lives...

 

mind boggling... you would take a chance with the well being of your marriage all for the sake of a code that will do nothing for you?

 

I'll give you the code if you don't use it to be a Douchebag.

 

We don't know that you guys don't have the code! Biggest joke in the Universe! We all talk assuming we all have it because our friends have it and they talk about how great their boyfriends are that have it and when you start dating us you appear to know it!

 

I didn't know my husband didn't have it until last year. I thought he was just an *******. (uh, well.....)

 

So to us we speak the same language and you guys keep telling us in your language: we don't care enough.

[ladydesigner]

lol thats because with women its never straight forward..up isnt necessarily up; same for down , left and right. Its all this unnesessary round about and for some reason they just dont want to say what they mean. This is not good communication at all..its flat out annoying because we see it as so unnessecary.

 

I'll give you a tip DOT... us guys...we dont want to crack no freaking un called for code; we aren't scooby do, ok. We just want to get right to the point so that we can get on with our lives...

 

mind boggling... you would take a chance with the well being of your marriage all for the sake of a code that will do nothing for you?

 

 

See for me it was the opposite. I would straight up tell my H what was bothering me and he would run...right out the door... away from it, a true conflict avoider. This always gave me the impression that I was not worth any effort and I would shut down, but as soon as he needed his needs met (sex) I was supposed to just jump at the opportunity. Thanks but no thanks.

[ladydesigner]

I'll give you the code if you don't use it to be a Douchebag.

 

We don't know that you guys don't have the code! Biggest joke in the Universe! We all talk assuming we all have it because our friends have it and they talk about how great their boyfriends are that have it and when you start dating us you appear to know it!

 

I didn't know my husband didn't have it until last year. I thought he was just an *******. (uh, well.....)

 

So to us we speak the same language and you guys keep telling us in your language: we don't care enough.

 

So true. Lol:p

[StoneCold]

I'll give you the code if you don't use it to be a Douchebag.

 

We don't know that you guys don't have the code! Biggest joke in the Universe! We all talk assuming we all have it because our friends have it and they talk about how great their boyfriends are that have it and when you start dating us you appear to know it!

 

I didn't know my husband didn't have it until last year. I thought he was just an *******. (uh, well.....)

 

So to us we speak the same language and you guys keep telling us in your language: we don't care enough.

 

Well evidently you dont know we dont have a "code" (oh god). But then theres something else called common sense and that should always prevail (and I beleive it does)... If you see a freight train coming you get out of the way....you dont play with matches because you - might get burned...you see how easy that is?...... you dont sexually starve your man because - he may cheat......which is why I'm not so quick to beleive claims to failure like "oh I didnt know...", "we just have a code..."

[xxoo]

Now I'm confused, DOT....is there really a "code" women are using? Intentionally?

 

I have no code. I don't intentionally complicate things. But my emotions are complicated, and sometimes it takes more than one go at a discussion for ME to understand why I am so upset about xyz. I can't be more direct if I haven't yet talked it through.

 

Incredibly important point: I (women?) work through emotions by talking them through. I understand my own emotional reactions better by talking them through. When my H is willing to listen to me and stick with me through that process, it makes me feel closer to him.

 

I'm feeling closer to ya'll just talking this through right now

[ladydesigner]

Now I'm confused, DOT....is there really a "code" women are using? Intentionally?

 

I have no code. I don't intentionally complicate things. But my emotions are complicated, and sometimes it takes more than one go at a discussion for ME to understand why I am so upset about xyz. I can't be more direct if I haven't yet talked it through.

 

Incredibly important point: I (women?) work through emotions by talking them through. I understand my own emotional reactions better by talking them through. When my H is willing to listen to me and stick with me through that process, it makes me feel closer to him.

 

I'm feeling closer to ya'll just talking this through right now

 

This is an extremely important point xoxo. I think men need to pay attention to this as much as us paying attention to their sexuality:laugh:

[StoneCold]

See for me it was the opposite. I would straight up tell my H what was bothering me and he would run...right out the door... away from it, a true conflict avoider..

 

 

I dont know your husband but what he is doing is called the "switch off". We switch off often and the reason being is when you come to us sqwaking we dont know what you want out of us....we've learned from past experience that you dont communicate in a logical manner which means we are dumbfounded in how to deal with you.

 

Sometimes you sqwak but you only want us to listen and not offer our opinion . Other times you sqwak - although the words coming out of your mouth mean X...you somehow mean J...and sometimes take out the garbage really does mean take out the garbage.

 

oy vey

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I'll give you a tip DOT... us guys...we dont want to crack no freaking un called for code; we aren't scooby do, ok. We just want to get right to the point so that we can get on with our lives...

?

 

To ignore what we are getting at is essentially treating us like functional objects, okay? No girl wants to be a piece of furniture in her guy's kingdom.

 

Often a woman says something like: we never go out anymore

 

Guy tries to solve FUNCTIONAL PROBLEM:

 

(oh Hell, here she goes again)

 

A) yes we do, I took you for doughnuts last night (there, showed her problem solved)

B) that's because you've been a pain in the ass (blame shifted, problem solved, for about 5 seconds before she freaks on you, it always surprises me that guys sometimes still pick Option B)

C) where do you want to go (logical, functional, but about half of the answer)

D) okay, let's go to x (logical, functional, about halfway there)

 

Any time that a woman is complaining there is a little tear in the relationship. Women generally do a lot of relationship maintenance and will live in an insufferable relationship for a long time hoping that things will return to what they were. They will carry around upset and hurt for years until the guy is ready to deal with it. It's tough though because you guys take it pretty personally, and often you hear her attacking so you don't want to listen.)

 

Any time there is that tear, the only real option is: listen for any feeling behind it, reassure her that you care about her and don't wish to neglect her, she's special to you. THEN solve the functional problem.

 

It's really ironic that when women complain less, guys want to do more for them. The opposite is true: when guys do more small frequent things to show they care, women will complain considerably less. Unless she has given up all hope, then she won't complain at all. But when you try to approach her at this point, resent and testing will take over and she'll bite your head off. I am guessing your marriage is at the complain-a-lot stage or the bite your head off otherwise silence stage.

 

Remember men: function first, connection after

Women: connection first (I.e. Reassurance) then function.

 

The more reassurance you give, the less she'll ask or complain and the more she'll DO for you. Affectionate, non-sexual touch is a HUGE thing for most women to feel loved as well.

 

Don't use the code to bag half of the GTA. barf.

[StoneCold]

To ignore what we are getting at is essentially treating us like functional objects, okay? No girl wants to be a piece of furniture in her guy's kingdom..

 

I just dont think men and women are mean to comingle like this...which leads into my theory about the problem with marriage as an institution...

 

Don't use the code to bag half of the GTA. barf.

 

 

lol...you need a "code" to do that...the code I see as a tool in marriage or some form of long term exposure

[ladydesigner]

I dont know your husband but what he is doing is called the "switch off". We switch off often and the reason being is when you come to us sqwaking we dont know what you want out of us....we've learned from past experience that you dont communicate in a logical manner which means we are dumbfounded in how to deal with you.

 

Sometimes you sqwak but you only want us to listen and not offer our opinion . Other times you sqwak - although the words coming out of your mouth mean X...you somehow mean J...and sometimes take out the garbage really does mean take out the garbage.

 

oy vey

 

You've got to be kidding me right? I don't know how much more logical to be. Maybe some women are this way. I'm pretty much a straight shooter:laugh: My H had a case of selective hearing.

[dreamingoftigers]

See for me it was the opposite. I would straight up tell my H what was bothering me and he would run...right out the door... away from it, a true conflict avoider. This always gave me the impression that I was not worth any effort and I would shut down, but as soon as he needed his needs met (sex) I was supposed to just jump at the opportunity. Thanks but no thanks.

 

I am willing to bet that there are two things at play here;

 

1. Can I guess that you would tell him what you weren't getting as opposed to what you wanted? Do you know what I mean? Like you would say something along the lines of: "you don't take the trash out." OR " I would like you to take the trash out and I feel disrespected when you don't." OR "can you take the trash out" followed by reminders to do so.

 

I think guys have a code too, it's just internal. Give me a min.

 

2. Your husband is a serial cheater, right? No Offence here. Just saying they tend to be so emotionally short-circuited (especially while they are in an affair) that they overload really quickly and EVERYTHING sounds like blame to them. Typical male stress overreaction is to run. I have a runner too. Blameshifts stress onto me. Runs, can't handle the smaller stuff because he hears you saying that he's a failure. Ugh.

 

Started doing just about everything myself and now the labour division got sorted because he didn't have to be reminded about anything.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well evidently you dont know we dont have a "code" (oh god). But then theres something else called common sense and that should always prevail (and I beleive it does)... If you see a freight train coming you get out of the way....you dont play with matches because you - might get burned...you see how easy that is?...... you dont sexually starve your man because - he may cheat......which is why I'm not so quick to beleive claims to failure like "oh I didnt know...", "we just have a code..."

 

Whoa whoa whoa, now you are making us out to be victims.

 

Your wife probably thinks: hey dude, you minimized my importance in your life, didn't listen to my complaints or feelings, argued with me when I had them and only tried to behave yourself to get sex. Go take a hike and come back when you care.

 

Both of you trying to get needs met: her: security, function, connection but she'll settle for having stability

 

You: sex and other functions and then the connection would form afterward but you'll settle for an EMR and the stability of home life until the functional side of your life can be more convenient.

 

Nobody's winning the battles and there is going to be a helluva war.

[ladydesigner]

I am willing to bet that there are two things at play here;

 

1. Can I guess that you would tell him what you weren't getting as opposed to what you wanted? Do you know what I mean? Like you would say something along the lines of: "you don't take the trash out." OR " I would like you to take the trash out and I feel disrespected when you don't." OR "can you take the trash out" followed by reminders to do so.

 

I think guys have a code too, it's just internal. Give me a min.

 

2. Your husband is a serial cheater, right? No Offence here. Just saying they tend to be so emotionally short-circuited (especially while they are in an affair) that they overload really quickly and EVERYTHING sounds like blame to them. Typical male stress overreaction is to run. I have a runner too. Blameshifts stress onto me. Runs, can't handle the smaller stuff because he hears you saying that he's a failure. Ugh.

 

Started doing just about everything myself and now the labour division got sorted because he didn't have to be reminded about anything.

 

Right on the $$$$. That is exactly how he acts. He still emotionally-short circuits, but is getting better. It's funny how we have to hear and take blame, but they cannot handle it ugh, it is so not a 2 way street.

 

Oh and meant to add, yes a serial cheater as well.

[xxoo]

Sometimes you sqwak but you only want us to listen and not offer our opinion . Other times you sqwak - although the words coming out of your mouth mean X...you somehow mean J...and sometimes take out the garbage really does mean take out the garbage.

 

oy vey

 

These dismissive words like "squawk", when talking is a basic need we have to work through our emotions....it is comparable to a woman dismissing your need for sex in order to feel close to your wife.

 

Yes, sometimes we need a strong sounding board--someone who we can trust with our scariest emotions, so that we can work through them on our own terms. Talking is a big part of the process. If my man dismisses my need to talk, I feel rejected and distance grows.

[dreamingoftigers]

Now I'm confused, DOT....is there really a "code" women are using? Intentionally?

 

I have no code. I don't intentionally complicate things. But my emotions are complicated, and sometimes it takes more than one go at a discussion for ME to understand why I am so upset about xyz. I can't be more direct if I haven't yet talked it through.

 

Incredibly important point: I (women?) work through emotions by talking them through. I understand my own emotional reactions better by talking them through. When my H is willing to listen to me and stick with me through that process, it makes me feel closer to him.

 

I'm feeling closer to ya'll just talking this through right now

 

I hear exactly what you are saying.

 

Maybe CODE isn't the word I want to use. Code sounds like we are trying to be devious and secretive and not give out information. Really if anything we give guys information overload.

 

Metaphors are terribly difficult to ascribe to communication patterns.

 

We are essentially (men and women) trying to paint a mural together but we can't have everything we want in it. So women figure if that the guy loved them he would put (x and y) in the mural. The guy figures that if she respected him that they would put (a and b) in the mural. But both of them still have a different bigger picture in their heads.

 

 

Here's a better one:

 

He calls it blue, she sees it as purple. She talks about how wonderful purple is all day long. He buys her something that looks purple to him and she figures he wasn't paying attention. (and vice versa). Neither is wrong. It just doesn't quite click.

 

I know we have to talk often to sort our own thoughts. John Gray suggests that men sit and listen to their women's feelings without interrupting 3-4 times a week to provide women with the bonding time and for men to feel like they have helped her solve something. Does good for both hormone levels.

[StoneCold]

Well lets just chop it up to this...

 

men and women werent meant to be overly domestic with eachother and until we can come to terms with this there will always be a problem.

 

men were meant to accumulate and f*ck

women were meant to seek security and get f*cked so that they can bear and rear children...

 

 

oh yes...thats right.... I said it:p

[dreamingoftigers]

I dont know your husband but what he is doing is called the "switch off". We switch off often and the reason being is when you come to us sqwaking we dont know what you want out of us....we've learned from past experience that you dont communicate in a logical manner which means we are dumbfounded in how to deal with you.

 

Sometimes you sqwak but you only want us to listen and not offer our opinion . Other times you sqwak - although the words coming out of your mouth mean X...you somehow mean J...and sometimes take out the garbage really does mean take out the garbage.

 

oy vey

 

Actually it has been wonderfully proven that neither gender is any better at reasoning then another, furthermore when speech patterns are broken down, women are more likely to get the results that they want and with better detail from both genders.

 

I am pretty dogmatic in this feminine trait as well: if it doesn't get done the first time, we assume that you didn't understand and ask or explain

A different way until we think you got it. We only tend to get really pissed off when we assume you should have gotten it by now and are purposely showing us you don't care about us.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well lets just chop it up to this...

 

men and women werent meant to be overly domestic with eachother and until we can come to terms with this there will always be a problem.

 

men were meant to accumulate and f*ck

women were meant to seek security and get f*cked so that they can bear and rear children...

 

 

oh yes...thats right.... I said it:p

 

If that were the case, we would miss you guys so much and you wouldn't want our approval so badly.

 

Those who live more with the amygdala portions of their brains want that and have a 30 second attention span. Those who live with the prefrontal cortex can see the long-term advantages and joys to having a mate.

[xxoo]

We aren't born with relationship skills, and we don't learn them simply be being married. But, with brave communication and a true willingness to assume the best of your partner, a successful and rewarding marriage is very possible.

[Woggle]

Men can fight wars because we are fighting the enemy. We don't love them but we do love our wives and don't wish to go to war with them. Men want home to be a peaceful and when we have a nagging woman who insists and starting small wars over the dumbest reasons it feels anything but peaceful. That is why many men have the man cave or retreat into our hobbies or in some extreme cases retreat into porn. We are trying to create that peaceful place that we don't get at home.

 

If there is one thing men hate is going around in circles and circles and not getting anywhere. That is what arguing with women feels like. It's endless drama with no solution in sight and when we do everything they ask for they still aren't happy. After this men assume she is unpleasable and simply leaves her alone.

[StoneCold]

Men can fight wars because we are fighting the enemy. We don't love them but we do love our wives and don't wish to go to war with them. Men want home to be a peaceful and when we have a nagging woman who insists and starting small wars over the dumbest reasons it feels anything but peaceful. That is why many men have the man cave or retreat into our hobbies or in some extreme cases retreat into porn. We are trying to create that peaceful place that we don't get at home.

 

If there is one thing men hate is going around in circles and circles and not getting anywhere. That is what arguing with women feels like. It's endless drama with no solution in sight and when we do everything they ask for they still aren't happy. After this men assume she is unpleasable and simply leaves her alone.

 

what he said

 

Yes, sometimes we need a strong sounding board--someone who we can trust with our scariest emotions, so that we can work through them on our own terms. Talking is a big part of the process. If my man dismisses my need to talk, I feel rejected and distance grows.

 

We dont mind talking... I actualy encourage it.

 

Its the bitching, nagging, nitpicking of silly things and silly fight picking we cant stand and beleive me...there is a difference between this stuf and talking

Edited August 18, 2011 by StoneCold

[giotto]

I think I'm the woman in the relationship...