is it true: women have less to offer?

[Easyguy14]

For relationships men do tend to focus on other things but women seem not to notice. Why do you see so many attractive women that can't find a good relationship to save their life? It's because all they have to offer is looks or that is all they put on display.

 

I notice this too. I think they have nothing else to offer but their looks so they never got the chance to develop any personality. average girls have nothing but time to work on other inherent traits so they come off better from my experience.

[Star Gazer]

We should make a list of things that women offer and that men can't provide or don't do as well.

 

How about: Give birth to your offspring?

 

Women can find someone willing to stick sperm in them just about anywhere. Men have a more difficult time finding someone who's willing to carry and give birth to their children.

[Shaun-Dro]

I'm sorry. I thought you were looking for advice... my bad...

 

I told you that your comments and attitude likely insulted her. No, I don't think she should spend time around you. She has lots of better things to do than spend time around a guy who secretly or outwardly thinks her days of being attractive to the opposite sex are numbered... and that she is more or less attractive because she 'only' has one kid. Do you ask your male co-workers that question?? Does it occur to you to judge them through the same lenses you are obviously judging her??

 

THAT is your answer, my friend. She's probably spent one too many evenings with clueless men like you. So no, she can't 'afford' to date or have a relationship if it means putting up with the (perhaps) well-intentioned, but clueless drivel you are dishing out here. She has a kid to raise... and other goals to accomplish.

 

Where do they find excuses like you? Attacking men because you're over the hill

[Sanman]

Beyond physical attractiveness (and this is still dependent on fitness) what one has to offer has largely to do with how learned they are and what they do to better themselves. A sexy body involves eating right and exercise, being a good provider involves picking the right career and working at it, cooking, cleaning, fixing things, romance, even sex are skills that can be learned and improved upon by any human being. What one has to offer others is largely dependent on their motivation to develop these skills and their general adeptness at any and all abilities.

[somedude81]

That's an awesome list Janesays.

 

That's a great example of things that women can offer beyond sex and making babies.

[lino]

I don't understand the topic really.

 

 

 

Well one way to think about it, is that evolution dictates that each gender will necessarily be genetically inclined to focus on the traits that the other gender deems most attractive. In animals, it is typically the male offering nothing but good looks (and good dance moves?) because the females are attracted by such in breeding rituals. In humans, the converse occurs. Women are likely focused on their own looks more so than men, because men reproductively encourage such behavior. If more men were to focus on other aspects more, perhaps more women might start to bring more to the table than just looks/sex.

 

Just a biological observation.

 

ah OK, so once again it's all the fault of the blokes.

[thatone]

Well one way to think about it, is that evolution dictates that each gender will necessarily be genetically inclined to focus on the traits that the other gender deems most attractive. In animals, it is typically the male offering nothing but good looks (and good dance moves?) because the females are attracted by such in breeding rituals. In humans, the converse occurs. Women are likely focused on their own looks more so than men, because men reproductively encourage such behavior. If more men were to focus on other aspects more, perhaps more women might start to bring more to the table than just looks/sex.

 

Just a biological observation.

 

plenty of men focus on the other things, the sad fact is a lot of women simply don't understand what those other things are and why.

 

my current gf is not a swimsuit model by any means. attractive? yes, she's not obese and ugly, just 'normal'. girl next door type attractive, not arm candy attractive. i have dated younger and more physically attractive women than her, and she has dated younger and more physically attractive men than me. she is the 'good girl' type that could always attract men simply by being classier and with less baggage than most women are, while i have money so i can find gold digger types if i so choose.

 

so why don't i have a gold digger for arm candy and why doesn't she have a gym trainer boy toy?

 

the thing i see most from single, physically attractive, professionally successful and socially capable women is bemoaning how they can't understand why they can't find a decent man despite how "independent, attractive, and successful" they are.

 

well, there you have it. if they want their independence, they need to be single. just as men surrender their independence to be with one woman, so must women surrender their independence to attract a man. that means their bar hopping female friends aren't gonna be close friends anymore. that means spending vacation days on road trips with their sister is over with, because they'll be spending those road trips with said man. that means if something their boyfriend wants to do conflicts with their yoga class or their gym schedule then sorry, cancel it to spend time with him instead. that means all of these "take care of yourself" posts of advice in this forum are wrong, men don't want to tag along while they "take care of themselves".

 

men look at other things all the time. but those other things are the opposite of the self sufficient fantasy that parents tell their daughters to go after these days. and those women will find once they've remained single too long and the biological window for children and family is closing, that when they go looking for a man who can provide at least his share for houses, children, a couple of new cars, and the rest of that lifestyle, those men do not want 'independent' women.

 

that's the stereotypical perception from the other side of the fence.

Edited August 15, 2011 by thatone

[MrNate]

How do they have less to offer? Those with no sense of self will probably feel that way.

 

I think they have ton to offer because for one: They are badass nurterers. I can't do half the crap most of them can do. Plus, it makes me

[Emilia]

so why don't i have a gold digger for arm candy and why doesn't she have a gym trainer boy toy?

 

the thing i see most from single, physically attractive, professionally successful and socially capable women is bemoaning how they can't understand why they can't find a decent man despite how "independent, attractive, and successful" they are.

 

well, there you have it. if they want their independence, they need to be single. just as men surrender their independence to be with one woman, so must women surrender their independence to attract a man. that means their bar hopping female friends aren't gonna be close friends anymore. that means spending vacation days on road trips with their sister is over with, because they'll be spending those road trips with said man. that means if something their boyfriend wants to do conflicts with their yoga class or their gym schedule then sorry, cancel it to spend time with him instead. that means all of these "take care of yourself" posts of advice in this forum are wrong, men don't want to tag along while they "take care of themselves".

 

men look at other things all the time. but those other things are the opposite of the self sufficient fantasy that parents tell their daughters to go after these days. and those women will find once they've remained single too long and the biological window for children and family is closing, that when they go looking for a man who can provide at least his share for houses, children, a couple of new cars, and the rest of that lifestyle, those men do not want 'independent' women.

 

that's the stereotypical perception from the other side of the fence.

 

That's a terrible, dated and jaded perspective. There are plenty of men - admittedly usually younger - that fall for active, independent women and they want her to remain active and independent. Yes you have to let people in and you have to set priorities but you don't have to give up what matters to you in your life for the right person. Your description of a relationship would be suffocating for many independent women.

[Woggle]

I think that his perspective is a bit extreme but most men don't want a woman who treats him as a disposable extra,

[thatone]

I think that his perspective is a bit extreme but most men don't want a woman who treats him as a disposable extra,

 

yeah, that's pretty much it.

 

and no, it isn't 'dated'.

 

i don't doubt that a lot of women wish it were 'dated', but it isn't.

[Els]

For relationships men do tend to focus on other things but women seem not to notice. Why do you see so many attractive women that can't find a good relationship to save their life? It's because all they have to offer is looks or that is all they put on display.

 

I know you're speaking for yourself, Woggle, and that's awesome, but that is not in any way an accurate generalization. There are plenty of men who cheerfully admit that appearances are their #1 priority, whereas in other aspects the woman only has to be 'not too bad'. I know plenty of women who look hot but don't really have much else to offer, and have plenty of men after them... and plenty of homely-looking women who are better in other aspects but don't have a throng of men going after them.

 

I know some men aren't like that, just as how some women focus on other aspects more in attracting a mate. But the truth of the matter is that many men and women are otherwise. I'm not talking about good relationships here, I'm talking about reproduction and evolution. It is they who reproduce, that determines the characteristics of the species many generations from now, not they who are in good relationships.

 

ah OK, so once again it's all the fault of the blokes.

 

Quick to get defensive over a simple cause-effect statement, aren't we? That certainly was not what I meant. FWIW, I also do think that a large reason more men than women are focused on obtaining power and career status, is that many women are attracted to power and career, whereas it is not usually a criteria for men. *shrugs* Oh, wait, am I making it 'all the women's fault again' now, too?

 

plenty of men focus on the other things, the sad fact is a lot of women simply don't understand what those other things are and why.

 

There are just as many men who don't focus on other things, as there are women who don't understand what those other things are. You may not notice, because you are amongst the men who do, but from a woman's point of view it's blatantly obvious. If a few generations went by with increasing numbers of men choosing their mates based on personality, intelligence, compatibility, being a good friend and a kind partner, etc, with appearance being a lesser requirement, do you really think women would still be spending all that time and money and effort prettifying themselves and thinking that it's all they need to do? I sincerely doubt it.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Elswyth

[musemaj11]

I think women, as a whole, have a lot to offer men outside of looks/sex. Unfortunately, many men don't notice the value of these things until they're gone.

 

I was married for 8 years. My ex recognized the fact that outside of of sex I brought just as much (If not more some years) money into the household as he. But what he failed to notice, until I was gone was:

 

*I took care of him when he was sick. Cold washcloths for his forehead, chicken soup served in bed, his favorite movies on the tv, leaving the house at 2am to pick up more cough drops and ice cream. It wasn't until he had major surgery and NO ONE to take care of him, that he understood the value of this.

 

*I made his dentist and doctor appointments for him and set reminders in his phone so he wouldn't miss the appointments. His teeth would have fallen out by now if it weren't for me.

 

*I kept the house clean and organized, I kept the budget tight and through smart investments, ensured our retirement fund.

 

*Packed lunch is in the fridge every night. Coffee is already in the pot in the morning. Just push the button.

 

*Lawn service has been hired. Bills are paid on time.

 

*Hello social life! Who but a wife plans and organizes dinners, parties, vacations?

 

*Don't worry honey, the dogs have been fed, potty'd, and exercised.

 

*Lost keys are in your pants pocket, contact solution is in the medicine cabinet on the second shelf, your left your video game on the floor and I picked up before the dog ate it, cell phone charger probably fell behind the bed again.

 

*I will cheer lead your ass right into another promotion and I remembered to send your boss a thank you card for your company Christmas gift.

 

*Speaking of Christmas gifts, I pick them all out and signed your name to the card. I also remembered everyone in the family's birthday, anniversary, Mothers and Fathers day, and send your grandfather flowers when he got sick. Oh, what a thoughtful son, grandson, uncle, cousin, and brother you are.

 

Need I go on? Because I could....for quite awhile. A good wife has PLENTY of value to a man. Unfortunately, only a small majority quit looking at our boobs long enough to recognize this.

Yea, because all women do all that for their men.

 

These days its hard to find a woman who even knows how to cook anything other than a pancake. My 23 year old female coworker who has been married for a year unashamedly bragged to me that she doesnt cook nor clean because her husband does all that while at the same time he is also the main breadwinner. I feel sorry for the guy.

[Els]

If you see a womans value as being a mom to your man, then youre pretty much gold to guys that need it. The real question is, why on earth would you marry a man - for 8 YEARS - who couldnt do anything for himself? How did you not move on from this guy from year 1 before marriage?

 

Well, to be fair, what Janesays said she did, is all well and good assuming the guy was reciprocating somehow. If he didn't, then yeah, I echo your sentiments.

 

I do a lot of what she says she did: I pretty much settle all of our bills, paperwork and official stuff, do most of the cleaning and laundry and trash, groceries, ensure that whatever needs to be in order is in order, etc. But it is not because the bf cannot do it himself - he very well can (or at least somehow magically manages to make do with emptying the trash like once a month - don't ask). But I do it because he pays the rent, takes care of me when I am sick, runs to get the car when it is raining, carries the heavy stuff for me, etc. It is called giving and taking. Neither person becomes a doormat when that happens.

[rafallus]

I know some men aren't like that, just as how some women focus on other aspects more in attracting a mate. But the truth of the matter is that many men and women are otherwise. I'm not talking about good relationships here, I'm talking about reproduction and evolution. It is they who reproduce, that determines the characteristics of the species many generations from now, not they who are in good relationships.

 

And I told in the beginning to consider it on an individual basis, yet I was ignored. Maybe some people do love gender wars after all...

[serial muse]

met up with one of my coworkers last night after work to go to a bar for a few drinks. we had a long post-mortem case and needed time to unwind a bit from things.

 

anyway she's a few years older than me at 36 and we talked about dating and relationships between men and women. the conversation started okay but then took a defensive turn on her part when I asked about why she's single and is still attractive, considering she only has 1 kid.

 

her response wasn't what I expected. she told me that women have much less to offer a man than a man has to offer a woman, so she cant afford to be in a relationship so easily. she wouldn't elaborate on it when I asked so we changed the subject. her statement to this point has me thinking. I wonder if some of you can shed light. this is new to me.

 

It just sounds like she has low self-esteem. By "women" she means herself. Poor thing.

 

Edited to add: Rafallus, I'm with you. I didn't bother to read all the comments because I felt like I've heard it all here before. The answer to the OP's question is really quite simple: This is a sad woman. Nuff said.

[Nexus One]

If you as a man think all a woman has to offer is sex and giving birth to babies, then you're not seeing her. The beauty of a woman reaches beyond the mere faculties of sex and childbirth. In my opinion, if that's all you're seeing in a woman, then as a man you're missing out. To be honest, I wouldn't wish such men upon any woman, as the limited and superficial view of such men takes away the meaningfulness of a relationship. And if meaningfulness is what a woman wants in a relationship, then from her point of view such guys are low quality men.

[zengirl]

Beyond physical attractiveness (and this is still dependent on fitness) what one has to offer has largely to do with how learned they are and what they do to better themselves. A sexy body involves eating right and exercise, being a good provider involves picking the right career and working at it, cooking, cleaning, fixing things, romance, even sex are skills that can be learned and improved upon by any human being. What one has to offer others is largely dependent on their motivation to develop these skills and their general adeptness at any and all abilities.

 

If you as a man think all a woman has to offer is sex and giving birth to babies, then you're not seeing her. The beauty of a woman reaches beyond the mere faculties of sex and childbirth. In my opinion, if that's all you're seeing in a woman, then as a man you're missing out. To be honest, I wouldn't wish such men upon any woman, as the limited and superficial view of such men takes away the meaningfulness of a relationship. And if meaningfulness is what a woman wants in a relationship, then from her point of view such guys are low quality men.

 

Both of these men get it. Also--what I find amusing is: Besides a few things (which, honestly, I'm not sure you fellows have one that is genetically determined as male, but we have childbirth---you guys, overall, have better upper body strength, which helped more in feudal societies and the like before modernization but still has some uses, but there will be men and women who are outliers), there is very little that either "only men can do" or "only women can do."

 

People are individuals, and what they contribute is largely based on who they are as a person. Sure, we can make generalizations about the masculine and feminine (and I have no issues with it, as long as we're admitting their generalizations based on our particular social construct), but what you have to offer in a relationship is largely based upon who you are and what you cultivate. And you can't change your looks entirely, but in terms of all the other areas: you have a lot of choice in what you cultivate!

[YeahDotDotDot]

her response wasn't what I expected. she told me that women have much less to offer a man than a man has to offer a woman, so she cant afford to be in a relationship so easily. she wouldn't elaborate on it when I asked so we changed the subject. her statement to this point has me thinking. I wonder if some of you can shed light. this is new to me.

 

I think your coworker may be an attractive single mom with a sharpe tongue.

[FitChick]

Too many men think they can buy a relationship. Yet they are too cheap to buy a hooker.

[FitChick]

I think women, as a whole, have a lot to offer men outside of looks/sex. Unfortunately, many men don't notice the value of these things until they're gone.

 

That in a nutshell explains the high rate of remarriage amongst men who are divorced and widowed. Single men can't miss that which they've never had.

[iJester]

BUT I couldnt even hazard a guess as to why a childless man would prefer a woman with children. Maybe those women invest emotionally faster because their pickins are slimmer.

 

Your guess is logical, but in reality, it is actually the opposite.

 

Women with kids invest slower emotionally, but progress faster physically. I've slept with four single moms, all within the first two dates. They have a much better understanding for how men and relationships work, and they're generally more down to earth and not pushy with relationship talk and all that. They were all good mothers, so they're constantly occupied by their kids, leaving them with far less time to spend chasing me around. All but one, told me I could see other girls, unprompted by me might I add, and I was actually not sure what to make of it until I recognized the pattern. So, depending on what a guy is looking for, I can certainly see why a guy would go for women with kids. Hell, I'd gladly date another one.

[zengirl]

BUT I couldnt even hazard a guess as to why a childless man would prefer a woman with children. Maybe those women invest emotionally faster because their pickins are slimmer.

 

I think it's odd to have it be a preference. Most guys I know over 30 will date a woman with children, if they like the girl. But preferring it? My ex dated a girl with kids, and he apparently said he actually like her more because she had kids --- he liked hanging out and playing at being a 'family.' But he REALLY wants kids. Like yesterday. I'm not sure if that's just him expressing his biological clock ticking, just something stupid he said, or if I even heard it right, but another possible hypothesis.

[sally4sara]

plenty of men focus on the other things, the sad fact is a lot of women simply don't understand what those other things are and why.

 

my current gf is not a swimsuit model by any means. attractive? yes, she's not obese and ugly, just 'normal'. girl next door type attractive, not arm candy attractive. i have dated younger and more physically attractive women than her, and she has dated younger and more physically attractive men than me. she is the 'good girl' type that could always attract men simply by being classier and with less baggage than most women are, while i have money so i can find gold digger types if i so choose.

 

so why don't i have a gold digger for arm candy and why doesn't she have a gym trainer boy toy?

 

the thing i see most from single, physically attractive, professionally successful and socially capable women is bemoaning how they can't understand why they can't find a decent man despite how "independent, attractive, and successful" they are.

 

well, there you have it. if they want their independence, they need to be single. just as men surrender their independence to be with one woman, so must women surrender their independence to attract a man. that means their bar hopping female friends aren't gonna be close friends anymore. that means spending vacation days on road trips with their sister is over with, because they'll be spending those road trips with said man. that means if something their boyfriend wants to do conflicts with their yoga class or their gym schedule then sorry, cancel it to spend time with him instead. that means all of these "take care of yourself" posts of advice in this forum are wrong, men don't want to tag along while they "take care of themselves".

 

men look at other things all the time. but those other things are the opposite of the self sufficient fantasy that parents tell their daughters to go after these days. and those women will find once they've remained single too long and the biological window for children and family is closing, that when they go looking for a man who can provide at least his share for houses, children, a couple of new cars, and the rest of that lifestyle, those men do not want 'independent' women.

 

that's the stereotypical perception from the other side of the fence.

 

You seem really smart and fun. And I mean that in the same way AIDs seems like a smart and fun way to lose weight.

[sally4sara]

I think it's odd to have it be a preference. Most guys I know over 30 will date a woman with children, if they like the girl. But preferring it? My ex dated a girl with kids, and he apparently said he actually like her more because she had kids --- he liked hanging out and playing at being a 'family.' But he REALLY wants kids. Like yesterday. I'm not sure if that's just him expressing his biological clock ticking, just something stupid he said, or if I even heard it right, but another possible hypothesis.

 

It worked for my husband and I because he had always thought that if he were to be a parent, adoption was how he would go about it.