Daily Contact: Poll?

August 16, 2011

I can't imagine the stress of caring about someone who lives far away and has health problems. It sounds like daily contact is important for the both of you. And from what you've written, it sounds sensible given his health concerns and the desire for the both of you to remain connected.

My comment is a bit off topic, but I wanted to extend my well wishes to the both of you.

Thanks, Cee. It is pretty stressful, and it's good to hear that somebody understands.

August 16, 2011

To each their own. I would find that totally needy behavior, from him as well. He needed you to respond, clearly. Thus: needy. There's a poster on here who constantly says that a relationship between two needy people can totally work (Enchanted Girl), and she often makes a lot of sense. So, I'm not saying it's always going to ruin things. So. . . it's good you guys both freak out in the same ways, maybe. I couldn't really say, as I've no experience feeling like that/being with anyone like that. And the idea of being on either side of that sounds very unzen to me.

FTR, I didn't think anything needy about your situation when it was about his health. It was only later that I started bringing that stuff up, I think. I get worrying about someone who has health problems.

Maybe you would find it needy, but think your (and a few other members of this site's) attitudes on relationships fall outside the norm.

You see my approach as needy, while I see your approach to people and relationships as cold and judgmental, and I couldn't ever imagine living that way. That's fine. Different strokes.

August 16, 2011

Maybe you would find it needy, but think your (and a few other members of this site's) attitudes on relationships fall outside the norm.

You see my approach as needy, while I see your approach to people and relationships as cold and judgmental, and I couldn't ever imagine living that way. That's fine. Different strokes.

I am potentially outside the norm, but what have I written about the way I treat my BF that strikes you as cold or judgmental? I don't doubt my opinions come off as judgmental online, but that's essentially what we're all doing --- assessing what we read, judging it, and responding to it --- on a message board. You may not like how I view things, but I have never leveled a criticism without supporting it with examples of how someone behaved as such. That's just name-calling.

I've written plenty about my relationships here and some in this thread. What do you find cold or judgmental in them?

Edited August 16, 2011 by zengirl

August 16, 2011

I am potentially outside the norm, but what have I written about the way I treat my BF that strikes you as cold or judgmental?

I think calling a behavior needy that doesn't seem far outside the norm given the circumstances -- health problems and long distance -- is pretty judgmental.

Unless I had more info to back a statement like that up, I'd probably just say "different styles."

August 16, 2011

I think calling a behavior needy that doesn't seem far outside the norm given the circumstances -- health problems and long distance -- is pretty judgmental.

Unless I had more info to back a statement like that up, I'd probably just say "different styles."

First of all, you totally would feel free to criticize something you found objectionable. You criticize people left and right on here, and hypothetical people doing hypothetical things. I find this objectionable; thus I expressed a critical POV.

Second of all, I asked what info from my relationships made you believe I was cold and judgmental. I'm not even sure I'm cold to strangers on LS (of course, I am judgmental----I have tons of opinions, and I'd never hide it; otherwise, I'd not write so much), but I definitely don't see how that relates to my relationship style. I'm not dating random people on LS.

I have no problems when people criticize my behavior or thoughts, as they exist in my relationships, but I do find it a bit odd when people put things out there and then, because their POVs are criticized, feel the need to level criticisms back in response. Seems defensive to me.

August 16, 2011

I don't have many dealbreakers, but "needing" daily contact would drive me nuts. I've got stuff to do. I don't have the time (or desire) to take care of a child.

Agree with this, the longer term the relationship, the more contact. I can't stand it when they start up with the "need to call good night every night" the very instant of exclusiveness. It should be fun, not a daily chore.

August 16, 2011

I am potentially outside the norm, but what have I written about the way I treat my BF that strikes you as cold or judgmental? I don't doubt my opinions come off as judgmental online, but that's essentially what we're all doing --- assessing what we read, judging it, and responding to it --- on a message board. You may not like how I view things, but I have never leveled a criticism without supporting it with examples of how someone behaved as such. That's just name-calling.

I've written plenty about my relationships here and some in this thread. What do you find cold or judgmental in them?

I've seen you come to snap judgments before about people's behaviors throwing around words like "needy" that seem overly critical, where it may simply be a difference in relationship style. You'll use your own relationship style as the ultimate measuring stick, but you have to bear in mind that people have different styles, different personalities and a lot of different styles can be compatible and fall within the healthy norm.

I don't know how you act in a relationship since I haven't seen it first hand, but I'd imagine that if you have a judgmental style on this board, some of that would come to bear in your interactions with people in real life. Would you really disagree that you're a judgmental, somewhat rigid minded person? I'd be pretty shocked if I were wrong on this.

August 16, 2011

I've seen you come to snap judgments before about people's behaviors throwing around words like "needy" that seem overly critical, where it may simply be a difference in relationship style. You'll use your own relationship style as the ultimate measuring stick, but you have to bear in mind that people have different styles, different personalities and a lot of different styles can be compatible and fall within the healthy norm.

I don't know how you act in a relationship since I haven't seen it first hand, but I'd imagine that if you have a judgmental style on this board, some of that would come to bear in your interactions with people in real life.

Is "needy" an overly critical word?

From the dictionary:

Definition of NEEDY

1
: being in want : poverty-stricken <needy families>
2
: marked by want of affection, attention, or emotional support <emotionally needy>

I'm going with #2. (not impoverished obviously)

FTR, I don't use my relationship style as the ultimate measuring stick (though I would consider it neither cold, nor overly judgmental---of course, it's somewhat judgmental, as anyone who doesn't try to assess the person their with is silly). I prefer it to most styles, sure, or it wouldn't be my own, and I have opinions about things, but I don't see how that makes me cold. All I said was something that fit the definition quite well.

If you need someone to respond to you immediately to fulfill some emotional need, that's definitely needy by that standard.

August 16, 2011

First of all, you totally would feel free to criticize something you found objectionable. You criticize people left and right on here, and hypothetical people doing hypothetical things. I find this objectionable; thus I expressed a critical POV.

It's true that I have been critical of you but it's because you strike me as very un-self-aware and sort of hypocritical yourself.

I'm a critical person by temperament, you're right, but that's something I've been working on and I think I've improved and been happier overall since I tried to be less judgmental. I'm trying to practice that in this new relationship, and let things go that would have made me obsess in the past. I haven't perfected it yet, but I have improved.

I wouldn't say I criticize people left on right on here, at least not anymore. The only people I've been very critical of lately are a few members who have bullied ES in her threads or condoned the bullying. But that's not a topic I really want to get into now.

For sure I can be critical when I think somebody is being hypocritical, unfair or nasty, but I don't level criticisms lightly.

I also don't spare myself. I'm very critical of my own behavior without being unnecessarily self-flagellating -- note I was regretful at the end of my thread for making myself worry needlessly.

Second of all, I asked what info from my relationships made you believe I was cold and judgmental. I'm not even sure I'm cold to strangers on LS (of course, I am judgmental----I have tons of opinions, and I'd never hide it; otherwise, I'd not write so much), but I definitely don't see how that relates to my relationship style. I'm not dating random people on LS.

I have no problems when people criticize my behavior or thoughts, as they exist in my relationships, but I do find it a bit odd when people put things out there and then, because their POVs are criticized, feel the need to level criticisms back in response. Seems defensive to me.

I haven't seen how you are in your relationships, so I can't make a definitive judgment but based on what you've written on here about your conflicts with boyfriends it sounds like you will get into petty arguments with them where you never relent because you always have to be "right." You also strike me as kind of humorless based on the fact that sarcasm always seems to fly right over your head or you don't seeing the silliness in things you've written (like when I pointed out how a sentence you wrote sounded robotic in its phrasing), and I think this is part of the same self awareness problem. If you can't make fun of yourself, if you take yourself too seriously, then your self growth will be stunted.

August 16, 2011

Is "needy" an overly critical word?

From the dictionary:

I'm going with #2. (not impoverished obviously)

FTR, I don't use my relationship style as the ultimate measuring stick (though I would consider it neither cold, nor overly judgmental---of course, it's somewhat judgmental, as anyone who doesn't try to assess the person their with is silly). I prefer it to most styles, sure, or it wouldn't be my own, and I have opinions about things, but I don't see how that makes me cold. All I said was something that fit the definition quite well.

If you need someone to respond to you immediately to fulfill some emotional need, that's definitely needy by that standard.

See even this strikes me as comically mechanical and lawyer-like in that you're using a dictionary definition to assess whether a behavior is "needy." That's not at all how I operate. I go by what seems to fall into normal based on the experiences of other people, and also based on the special circumstances of my own relationship or situation -- none of which a stripped down dictionary definition can address.

August 16, 2011

So, no, my "hey" text after not hearing from him for a whole day and night knowing he was sick was not needy, and definitely not by his standards.

No, your "hey" text was after you'd touched base with him and found out he was okay, and after you'd set up a time to talk to him later in the day. There was no need whatsoever to send that text, because you already had a "date" to chat later... And when he didn't respond within a few minutes, you did this:

August 16, 2011

I prefer to contact an SO every 2 or 3 days. In most of my relationships, daily contact's been initiated by the guy, and I accomodate it, but I'm mostly reciprocating communication. I've never really had an urge to contact/talk to my SO every day past the honeymoon phase of the relationship. To me there's not enough to talk about to constitute daily conversation. And IMO you can only tell someone "Hi, just thinking of you" or "miss you" or "hope you're having a good day" so many times before the phrases become lip service instead of genuine gestures of affection.

This I disagree with.

One of the things I really look for in a guy is somebody who I find endlessly interesting/fascinating, which means our conversations rarely run dry. I guess you can get bored with anybody if you spend 24/7 with them, but with the guy I'm seeing now we lose track of time when we're talking so we actually have to limit the amount of time we spend in contact to keep our lives balanced.

August 16, 2011

This I disagree with.

One of the things I really look for in a guy is somebody who I find endlessly interesting/fascinating, which means our conversations rarely run dry. I guess you can get bored with anybody if you spend 24/7 with them, but with the guy I'm seeing now we lose track of time when we're talking so we actually have to limit the amount of time we spend in contact to keep our lives balanced.

Are you an introvert or an extrovert? I ask because I find several people fascinating, but don't have a desire to constantly engage with them even so, and I've noticed that this is often a difference between introverts and extroverts. That's my experience anyway.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Almond_Joy

August 17, 2011

Are you an introvert or an extrovert? I ask because I find several people fascinating, but don't have a desire to constantly engage with them even so, and I've noticed that this is often a difference between introverts and extroverts. That's my experience anyway.

Introvert -- both he and I are. Although I'm sort of a mixture because while I'm naturally quite shy, I'm very chatty once I feel comfortable around somebody, I feel happiest when I'm around other people, and I don't need a lot of alone time. I'm guessing you're a straight up introvert and need more alone time?

August 17, 2011

The daily contact thing is a bit of a no brainer. The amount of contact grows until it's daily, incidentally. You call out of habit or simply because it occurs to you.

Eventually, even if you want to spend a night completely isolated (as I sometimes do), you drop a line anyway, so that your partner doesn't worry about you. That empathy is intuited over time.

Most married couples I know have some kind of arrangement about maintaining contact, even while living together. Some have more byzantine arrangements than others. It's whatever works for them. They wouldn't have figured it out without being vocal, so at a certain point, you both have to negotiate expectations.

But YOU, OP. I think I saw a post of yours somewhere that said you were doing something long distance, am I mistaken? If so:

I suspect you have anxiety about "the state of things", given that you have limited ways to make new memories with him, and I imagine this is tainting your motivation behind counting phone calls and text messages. You have to be very careful not to play too many games with yourself. Right now, your relationship persists on a big dose of fantasy, so your imagination is needed. But don't get carried away. You don't know what he smells like, after all. You don't know what his lips feel like on your neck and you don't know if he leaves the toilet seat up. This relationship has a very real possibility of crashing on its own inflation.

My advice for you would be to resist considering your status -- i.e. your future -- with this guy. I don't mean to run some kind of game now, like calling him Y days a week instead of X. I mean: this is supposed to be fun, and it is fun, so don't worry about "whether he's ______" and keep the focus on having fun. Yeah?

Good points. You're right in that I think my anxiety about him losing contact for a couple of days had more to do with my anxiety surrounding the uncertain nature of our relationship. I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

August 17, 2011

This I disagree with.

One of the things I really look for in a guy is somebody who I find endlessly interesting/fascinating, which means our conversations rarely run dry. I guess you can get bored with anybody if you spend 24/7 with them, but with the guy I'm seeing now we lose track of time when we're talking so we actually have to limit the amount of time we spend in contact to keep our lives balanced.

Huh? That's not what you said just a week ago:

Hmm. This is a really interesting observation and you articulated some of the thoughts that have been running through my head. I have been worried for awhile that the intensity was unsustainable and we were over-sharing, so maybe you're right that we've emptied our tanks. For two months our conversations were effortless but I think the last week or so I've noticed that I've been at a loss more and maybe so has he. It's hard without shared experiences to keep that going.

August 17, 2011

Huh? That's not what you said just a week ago:

We were spending way too much time talking at that point (like most of our free time outside of work), but we've since fallen into a more manageable rhythm.

August 17, 2011

We were spending way too much time talking at that point (like most of our free time outside of work), but we've since fallen into a more manageable rhythm.

And...? How does that square with you just now saying that you find your BF so endlessly fascinating that you're able to talk so much yet the conversations never run dry? It doesn't.

In short, you need to learn how to enjoy the silence with him, just as much as the conversations.

August 17, 2011

And...? How does that square with you just now saying that you find your BF so endlessly fascinating that you're able to talk so much yet the conversations never run dry? It doesn't.

In short, you need to learn how to enjoy the silence with him, just as much as the conversations.

Not gonna take the bait.

August 17, 2011

Not gonna take the bait.

What bait? I'm not trying to catch anything, just pointing out one of your many inconsistencies that make it really hard to follow your points.

August 17, 2011

See even this strikes me as comically mechanical and lawyer-like in that you're using a dictionary definition to assess whether a behavior is "needy." That's not at all how I operate. I go by what seems to fall into normal based on the experiences of other people, and also based on the special circumstances of my own relationship or situation -- none of which a stripped down dictionary definition can address.

I'm just pointing out that the word "needy" is not an overly critical word. It is a word that fits what I described, and if you assign it particular power to wound you, that's your issue.

You see it mechanical to use words correctly? If I said, "that behavior is green," you'd be very confused. Because that doesn't make sense. So, yes, I tend to use the definitions of the words to decide which word to pick. I don't think that makes me mechanical. I think it makes me a good communicator.

I would find it more mechanical to live my life by poll or committee, personally. But I'm not talking about deciding how one lives their life by the dictionary; just pointing out what the word actually means. I do try to use words correctly. If we don't, we're all just having a conversation with ourselves because no one else is understanding our meanings.

This I disagree with.

One of the things I really look for in a guy is somebody who I find endlessly interesting/fascinating, which means our conversations rarely run dry. I guess you can get bored with anybody if you spend 24/7 with them, but with the guy I'm seeing now we lose track of time when we're talking so we actually have to limit the amount of time we spend in contact to keep our lives balanced.

I look for that as well, but I also look for someone who has their own life (which is what makes them endlessly fascinating because they constantly bring new things back) and someone who can handle waiting for me to respond to a text before freaking out.

The daily contact thing is a bit of a no brainer. The amount of contact grows until it's daily, incidentally. You call out of habit or simply because it occurs to you.

Oh, I agree with this. I don't find it odd at all for people who've been coupled awhile to talk every day, and that's happened to me as well. What I find odd are the people who say very early in the relationships that they need daily contact from their new partner in order to feel secure in the relationship or assess interest through communication patterns early on or find validation through communication patterns. That's why I defined it as such.

Of course, as you grow close to someone, and they become an important fixture of your life, you'll talk to them more and more to the point where it's at that regularity. But it's natural and not something that any brief interruption would freak you out in terms of the relationship (maybe in terms of, "That's weird. I hope he/she's not hurt.")

August 17, 2011

I'm just pointing out that the word "needy" is not an overly critical word. It is a word that fits what I described, and if you assign it particular power to wound you, that's your issue.

You see it mechanical to use words correctly? If I said, "that behavior is green," you'd be very confused. Because that doesn't make sense. So, yes, I tend to use the definitions of the words to decide which word to pick. I don't think that makes me mechanical. I think it makes me a good communicator.

I would find it more mechanical to live my life by poll or committee, personally. But I'm not talking about deciding how one lives their life by the dictionary; just pointing out what the word actually means. I do try to use words correctly. If we don't, we're all just having a conversation with ourselves because no one else is understanding our meanings.

Apples and oranges. There's a huge difference between using a dictionary to define a concept that is fairly concrete and generally agreed upon like a color and a concept that is complex and subjective like a value judgment on a type of behavior (what constitutes "needy"). Defining a behavior means in some sense comparing it to the norm/defining normal. A dictionary definition can't tell you what normal is.

I look for that as well, but I also look for someone who has their own life (which is what makes them endlessly fascinating because they constantly bring new things back) and someone who can handle waiting for me to respond to a text before freaking out.

I never said or implied he had no life. He's quite busy but I'm probably always in the back of his mind -- he sent me those texts from work. I don't consider his behavior needy given our established pattern, and even if it was a tad needy I'd rather err on the side of being with somebody who is slightly needy over somebody who is somewhat jaded or detached.

Oh, I agree with this. I don't find it odd at all for people who've been coupled awhile to talk every day, and that's happened to me as well. What I find odd are the people who say very early in the relationships that they need daily contact from their new partner in order to feel secure in the relationship or assess interest through communication patterns early on or find validation through communication patterns. That's why I defined it as such.

Of course, as you grow close to someone, and they become an important fixture of your life, you'll talk to them more and more to the point where it's at that regularity. But it's natural and not something that any brief interruption would freak you out in terms of the relationship (maybe in terms of, "That's weird. I hope he/she's not hurt.")

My relationships when they're working tend to grow close somewhat quickly because I'm intense and I tend to date like-minded people. To preempt whatever negative spin you try to give to "intense", I mean that I experience the world vividly, I get excited easily and I connect to things strongly when I do connect. That means when I'm clicking with somebody and my gut is telling me good things (which is rare for me), I spend a lot of time getting to know that person at the beginning, but that doesn't mean giving up my life. Admittedly a couple of weeks ago I think we were spending too much time together, but we've since discussed this and established a better rhythm.

We have the kind of firing on all cylinders, effortless connection that I've only had with one other person. Being at such a distance compounded with some serious health problems is extremely stressful, and communication is all we have right now. We both want some form of daily contact, and we can't always have long skype conversations, but we try to at least exchange a few texts every day.

You are the first woman I've met who didn't need (yes need) some form of daily contact in an established relationship unless external circumstances prevented it. You seem to always have one foot out the door, so it's not surprising that you would see needing daily contact as abnormal. Just to preempt "I like to have my own life" -- that's not what I"m implying. I always found it odd how quickly you fell out of and into love again. That struck me as abnormal, at the other end of the spectrum from needy, whatever you wanna call it.

Anyway, I feel like I'm being baited a bit by you and Star here, so this will be my last response to either of you in this thread.

Edited August 17, 2011 by torn_curtain

August 17, 2011

I'm just pointing out that the word "needy" is not an overly critical word. It is a word that fits what I described, and if you assign it particular power to wound you, that's your issue.

No matter what the dictionary says, "needy" is usually intended and received in a criticizing manner. Would you call an infant who is crying to be picked up "needy"? Don't think so.

Sounds like a bit of back-pedaling going on here.

Edited August 17, 2011 by OliveOyl

August 17, 2011

No matter what the dictionary says, "needy" is usually intended and received in a criticizing manner. Would you call an infant who is crying to be picked up "needy"? Don't think so.

Sounds like a bit of back-pedaling going on here.

predicted literal-minded response: "Well infants ARE needy."

*facepalm*

August 17, 2011

You are the first woman I've met who didn't need (yes need) some form of daily contact in an established relationship unless external circumstances prevented it.

I'm not even the only woman on LS who says I don't need it! Many here do have it, sure, (though I haven't heard whether they would be insecure without it, which is what I made clear "needy" meant; as I said, I actually have daily contact with my BF most of the time as well, even though I don't need it). But maybe LS has a selection bias towards certain kinds of women. I know how you love selection biases. Even individual threads likely have selection biases.

You seem to always have one foot out the door, so it's not surprising that you would see needing daily contact as abnormal.

How so? I do not have one foot out the door in my current relationship and cannot see how I've written anything about my relationship to provoke such a comment.

Just to preempt "I like to have my own life" -- that's not what I"m implying. I always found it odd how quickly you fell out of and into love again. That struck me as abnormal, at the other end of the spectrum from needy, whatever you wanna call it.

It was four months out of love with my ex till I even met my BF, and we didn't say ILY till last month (that'd be 7 months). I don't know how long you think waiting to fall in love is appropriate.

You can certainly choose not to take my opinion, if you disagree with me, but I find your defensiveness quite strange. ETA: I have never, in my life, tried to bait anyone on LS. I express my thoughts. If anyone feels anything based on my thoughts, that's their own thing. I don't intend to create (or avoid creating) any particular reaction.

No matter what the dictionary says, "needy" is usually intended and received in a criticizing manner. Would you call an infant who is crying to be picked up "needy"? Don't think so.

Sounds like a bit of back-pedaling going on here.

Yes, an infant is totally needy. (All infants are.) But it is acceptable to be needy as an infant or child, to almost all human beings. Whether it's acceptable for an adult to be needy varies based on the person deciding and the decree of neediness (almost no one would want to date a woman who was as needy as an infant, obviously, and as EH says some people would see needing daily contact as 'acting like a child'). For the record, I did not say needy people were unacceptable to all human beings. Neediness does feel oppressive to secure/not needy people. And whether you are a needy person or are just needy at times varies as well; even secure as I am, I am sure there are occasions when I get needy. We all do.

I didn't disagree that some needy behavior might be acceptable to people. (In fact, I made a point of pointing out an example of a poster who continually says a relationship between two needy people works well!)

And my point continues to be that "having"/"wanting" and "needing" are two very different things. In many ways. For instance, wanting a relationship when you're single? Totally healthy. Needing one? Most people would agree that's not healthy. I'd say it's the same thing with many things, including DC. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but when they need to defend their POV by calling me names or saying my relationship is unhealthy . . . I totally wonder (to quote "Heathers") what their damage is.

Edited August 17, 2011 by zengirl

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