drifter777 Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 OK - since the thread has gotten off track. (what a surprise - it happens all the time here) Here's a question for you drifter. Why would you want to kill them? Are you 100% positive that your wife didn't tell them that she wasn't married? Why is it their fault your wife cheated? ....... I'm not meaning these questions in any disrespectful manner. I'm truly curious why someone would risk doing something like that to another human being when you don't even know them & you weren't in the room when it all went down. Ok, more to your OP - no, I don't think you must hate the OM to move on after the A. I think it's a typical response by BS, but it's not "mandatory". As for your questions, I am 100% positive they knew she was married. She told me she did not take off her rings so ONS had to know. She actually carried on with OM 2 for a few weeks and had our son with her so that's an easy one. As I said, part of me doesn't blame any man for not turning down easy, no-strings sex. But another part of me wanted to tear them apart. If I could have gotten to them I would have taken all my hurt & rage out on them because, well, why not? I couldn't kill the mother of my child, but those two scumbags would have been like stepping on a spider to me.
MissBee Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 To hate the OM or OW in order for you to actually move on in your marriage? .....Or is it just something that society/LSers tells us we should feel - After the affair is over? I was just reading another thread & got to wondering this. I think hating anyone, period, eats you up more so than it bothers them or helps your situation. An OW is not obligated to me, unless she was a friend, sister or other relative, which would be a whole other can of worms. Therefore, while she played a role in something that hurt me, my SO is the one who is solely responsible for my pain, in my eyes, and the one who 95% or more of my anger/hatred/hurt would be geared towards. I don't see how one can forgive their spouse and "move on" in their marriage if they still hate the OW. I feel like I'd get over her and forgive her quicker than I would my H, as she simply is not that relevant to me.
fooled once Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 To hate the OM or OW in order for you to actually move on in your marriage? .....Or is it just something that society/LSers tells us we should feel - After the affair is over? I was just reading another thread & got to wondering this. Is it really necessary to NOT hate the OW/OM? I honestly don't think it is an issue if someone does hate them. The OW/OM had no thoughts of hurting them by screwing their spouse. I will never tell someone not to despise the person who participated in the affair. I will never tell them it isn't right to hate them. Each of us deals with things differently -- me, I would do whatever I could to ruin an OW; I would ensure all her family and friends knew what she did. That's just me tho...an eye for an eye and all that
seren Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 My way of thinking is, for me, as a bS I could not hate the OW, if I did then I would have to apportion hate to my H too after all it takes two to tango and I don't, so it makes no sense to hate her. At best I feel indifference and an amount of compassion for her hurt, some in fact many might not understand this, but I understand the why's and how's of it and it was all so f***ed up that I think it a train wreck for both. My H, hates what he did to me, so by association hates the fact that she enabled him to have an A and thus her too. I also think her actions toward me after helping her after D Day has resulted in him hating her too. Transferrance of guilt has, IMO, something to do with this. I get peed off with him when he has such hate for her and for some of the things he says about her. I still struggle to understand that if it all meant so little then why bloody do it. But, I can only say what I see and what he says. I tell him when he is saying something unfair and that makes him say that it makes him realise all the more just what he was f***ing up by having an A. Hate is such a destructive emotion, to properly reconcile I could not have hate lodge itself in me, I don't do hate for anyone. As I said, to hate her would mean I would have to hate him and while I hate the A indeed all A's I do not the people.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 I think hating anyone, period, eats you up more so than it bothers them or helps your situation. An OW is not obligated to me, unless she was a friend, sister or other relative, which would be a whole other can of worms. Therefore, while she played a role in something that hurt me, my SO is the one who is solely responsible for my pain, in my eyes, and the one who 95% or more of my anger/hatred/hurt would be geared towards. I don't see how one can forgive their spouse and "move on" in their marriage if they still hate the OW. I feel like I'd get over her and forgive her quicker than I would my H, as she simply is not that relevant to me. Except that when instinct kicks in a certain amount of it is towards the other party. I remember my mother hoping that my father's mistress was found in a garbage can. She told me that prior to the affair that she never could understand why a woman would hate the other woman, after the affair, she said it simply was a primal urge to want her to be dead.
bentnotbroken Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 It doesn't matter necessarily what the FWS feels towards their X-AP. I was reading another thread & just got to thinking. .........is it necessary to 'hate' the X if & when the affair is over in order to move on in the marriage? So many here in LS (not pointing a finger at any specific group) say on here how necessary remorse is, how necessary it is to come completely clean, how necessary.....this & how necessary that. Would it make the BS feel any better if the WS says "I hate them" (XAP)? I wouldn't have made me feel better. I wouldn't have believed him anyway. He had already proven himself a proficient liar, so why think he would tell me the truth about his feelings for her. It is apparent he never told me how he really felt about me. I saw a previous statement about hating the AP. I don't hate her. She pisses me off(that has more to do with actions not related to the affair) but that is a long way from hate.
LifesontheUp Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Is it really necessary to NOT hate the OW/OM? I honestly don't think it is an issue if someone does hate them. The OW/OM had no thoughts of hurting them by screwing their spouse. I will never tell someone not to despise the person who participated in the affair. I will never tell them it isn't right to hate them. Each of us deals with things differently -- me, I would do whatever I could to ruin an OW; I would ensure all her family and friends knew what she did. That's just me tho...an eye for an eye and all that Agreed. For me I really cannot understand this wishy washy rubbish that its not acceptable to hate the OW/OM and that its the spouse that is at fault. The OW/OM owed the BS nothing blah blah blah, so don't put the blame on them Come on lets get real. The OW/OM slept with your spouse, helped participate in the lies and deceit. So whilst you are going through all the emotions of finding out about the affair and you have feelings of hate for the OW/OM - so what? Its a natural emotion. It happens and there really isn't anything wrong with feeling it. On the same note, if the WS hates the OW/OM or not - so what? There are people who divorce after d-day and those that try and make their marriage work. From reading here and elsewhere, some WS make it clear that they dislike their AP, others don't. It doesn't seem to make a difference to the people recovering their marriages.
LifesontheUp Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Interesting thread. I've noticed that over at SI that it seems that a huge part of the threads are about the hate/disgust they feel at the ow. Many of them have derogatory things said in their sig specifically about the ow. Is that a stage they are going through or is it indicative of a particular website? Personally I think the people over at SI are being honest with their feelings. People go through stages and hate can be one of them.
nyrias Posted August 14, 2011 Posted August 14, 2011 It's not necessary to cheat. It is not necessary to eat a lot of fatty food. It is not necessary to smoke. It is not necessary to gamble. Heck, it is not necessary to watch tv. "Not necessary" is pretty low, in terms of ranking, of a reason not to do something.
donnamaybe Posted August 14, 2011 Posted August 14, 2011 It is not necessary to eat a lot of fatty food. It is not necessary to smoke. It is not necessary to gamble. Heck, it is not necessary to watch tv. "Not necessary" is pretty low, in terms of ranking, of a reason not to do something. Is lying and betrayal a necessary component to those things? Didn't think so.
NoIDidn't Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I have never read anyone in this forum tell a WS that it was necessary for them to hate their former OP. How does having remorse or requiring proof of remorse equal hating the OP?
anne1707 Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I have never read anyone in this forum tell a WS that it was necessary for them to hate their former OP. How does having remorse or requiring proof of remorse equal hating the OP? As a former WS... In the immediate aftermath of Dday I was very angry with the ex-OM - he spent several weeks trying to manipulate me yet when I confronted him on his actions, he would completely deny it. Mind games . This along with the pain I felt at the end of the affair I suppose got me to (borderline) hate him. But then I started to let go of all those feelings. I focussed more and more on my marriage and my husband, becoming much clearer about us and what we wanted to achieve together. The hate for the ex-OM disappeared, as did the anger (though I do still think he is an annoying little pr*ck ). When he got married last year, I was indifferent to it all. It did not bother me one way or another. To me, that was something far more positive than anger or tears or hate. It meant I did not care about what he was doing and did not focus any energy on him instead of my H. Regarding remorse. I felt tremendous guilt in the first few months which probably ties in to when I felt all the anger for the ex-OM. But you cannot stay in that heightened state of emotions long-term. It is just not healthy. I now feel remorse which is all part of learning from my past actions and emotions.
John Michael Kane Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 As a former WS... In the immediate aftermath of Dday I was very angry with the ex-OM - he spent several weeks trying to manipulate me yet when I confronted him on his actions, he would completely deny it. Mind games . This along with the pain I felt at the end of the affair I suppose got me to (borderline) hate him. But then I started to let go of all those feelings. I focussed more and more on my marriage and my husband, becoming much clearer about us and what we wanted to achieve together. The hate for the ex-OM disappeared, as did the anger (though I do still think he is an annoying little pr*ck ). When he got married last year, I was indifferent to it all. It did not bother me one way or another. To me, that was something far more positive than anger or tears or hate. It meant I did not care about what he was doing and did not focus any energy on him instead of my H. Regarding remorse. I felt tremendous guilt in the first few months which probably ties in to when I felt all the anger for the ex-OM. But you cannot stay in that heightened state of emotions long-term. It is just not healthy. I now feel remorse which is all part of learning from my past actions and emotions. How did he manipulate you?
anne1707 Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 How did he manipulate you? He lied to me. He tried to reel me back in. He sent text messages that he later denied sending. He would make comments on how I looked. All kinds of things like that which would upset or annoy me, yet when confonted he would absolutely deny doing any of this stuff and that he was not interested in me. Once I stopped reacting to his games, he started to back-off. I regained control of me. He still tries now and then but I just find it rather sad and pathetic and ignore him.
Spark1111 Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I don't think hating the OW/OM is a necessary part of any succesful reconciliation....but it happens. If it is the WS, and they are truly remorseful, then the self-loathing they feel gets projected --fairly or unfairly--onto the AP, the only person on the planet that approved and enabled the cheating. If it is the BS, well their anger at the affair may also projected onto the AP so that they do not hate their spouse. This is actually a common emotion after an affair discovery as it protects the psyche from experiencing the full frontal assault of pain after betrayal. It is NO DIFFERENT for OW/OM who get thrown under the bus at DDAY, or now half to endure a messy divorce, and feel the spouse must be disparaging or manipulating the MAP. I felt sorry for the OW in my sitch, projecting how lonely it must be to raise a difficult child after an acrimonious divorce. I figured she got caught up in his depression and mid-life crisis too. Until I spoke to her two years after DDay and discovered she was totally bat**t crazy. She absolutely HATES ME. Go figure.... Triangle relationships are all about power; who has it, who lost it, who gained it. Anger and hate can be a normal initial response to loss of power.
John Michael Kane Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 He lied to me. He tried to reel me back in. He sent text messages that he later denied sending. He would make comments on how I looked. All kinds of things like that which would upset or annoy me, yet when confonted he would absolutely deny doing any of this stuff and that he was not interested in me. Once I stopped reacting to his games, he started to back-off. I regained control of me. He still tries now and then but I just find it rather sad and pathetic and ignore him. So even though you knew what you were getting into initially, he manipulated you?
anne1707 Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 So even though you knew what you were getting into initially, he manipulated you? Oh I know in many ways I have no reason to complain. I know I lied to my H and hurt him more than anything so I do see the hypocrisy in saying I was manipulated. But the ex-OM did try to make things more difficult for me. This was also whilst he had started seeing the woman who is now his wife so I saw it as he was also being unfair to her by focussing some of his energy on me.
John Michael Kane Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 Oh I know in many ways I have no reason to complain. I know I lied to my H and hurt him more than anything so I do see the hypocrisy in saying I was manipulated. But the ex-OM did try to make things more difficult for me. This was also whilst he had started seeing the woman who is now his wife so I saw it as he was also being unfair to her by focussing some of his energy on me. I take it she doesn't know what kind of person he is, eh?
anne1707 Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I take it she doesn't know what kind of person he is, eh? I certainly doubt she knows the full truth. There is (obviously) far more to my story but that would be a t/j
John Michael Kane Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I certainly doubt she knows the full truth. There is (obviously) far more to my story but that would be a t/j Oh I don't doubt that.
John Michael Kane Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 i agree. it ticked me off quite a bit when people would tell me that i needed to forgive the "other woman". I was told that I could not "heal" until I "let go" of my anger towards her. To that I say "piffle!"... My anger at her did not interfere with my "healing process". I did not spend 24 hrs a day in seething anger towards her...I still was totally functional and spent my "emotional time"(?) between my kids and working with my husband to improve our marriage. I simply didn't have the time nor the energy to waste on her. Quite a bit of time has passed, and , when I think about it, I don't really think I am still angry with her...it's more like I am confused by her. I still don't understand why a women who could easily find a single guy would choose to pursue relationships with married guys. That makes no sense to me. Mind you, I still have not "forgiven" her ( whatever that means), and my forgiveness of her is irrelevant anyway. It is not for me to forgive her, she has to do that for herself, and given what her personality is like, i don't think she sees that there is anything to forgive. BTW...she is still angry with me but also afraid of me. Not sure why, but perhaps it's because I stood up for myself and what I wanted...don't think she is used to people doing that. She feels like that because she know she's wrong.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 15, 2011 Author Posted August 15, 2011 I certainly doubt she knows the full truth. There is (obviously) far more to my story but that would be a t/j Your EX sounds very much like mine. Maniulative! During my separation from my husband he actually wanted to "Be friends".(he was divorced at this time & I was newly on my own) Obviously since we had a history from the past i figured' what the heck. It was nice to just have a friend during that time. (for those that don't know my story NO I didn't leave my husband for this other man. He & I hadn't had any part of one another for well over a year when I left home) He (EX) totally used me (I allowed him to use me) During this time he was dating someone else. And complaining to me about her all the way.... Saying "she's toxic" "I feel obligated to stay with her because she left her husband for me"...blah blah blah! At the time I couldn't see what was happening. After being separated from the situation, I totally saw what he was up to. His Type: I'll never BREAK UP with you.........BUT I will however make life miserable until YOU break things off with me. Personally I think he wanted to get caught hangin' with me so she'd leave. That didn't happen. Do I hate him now? Nah, that'd be a waste of my energy. He still from time to time will pop in & out of my life via email. I just shrug. Whatever. He's probably lonely & weird enough still with the same woman that over the last 2++ years has made him miserable...........what a sad existance.
Memphis Raines Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 I have never read anyone in this forum tell a WS that it was necessary for them to hate their former OP. How does having remorse or requiring proof of remorse equal hating the OP? Confusion about the point of this thread.... its not confusing to me about the point of this thread or any other thread started by CIK in the infidelity section. She likes to try to ruffle the feathers of those that come here that have suffered at the hands of people like her and those she defends. pure and simple.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I have never read anyone in this forum tell a WS that it was necessary for them to hate their former OP. How does having remorse or requiring proof of remorse equal hating the OP? I was confused by this too actually. I just figured that it popped up in a thread somewhere. CIK, is there a thread dealing with thus subject matter or references to it? Or is there something similar on here?
dreamingoftigers Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 its not confusing to me about the point of this thread or any other thread started by CIK in the infidelity section. She likes to try to ruffle the feathers of those that come here that have suffered at the hands of people like her and those she defends. pure and simple. Then that being the case, it is always best to refrain from drinking the KOOL-aid
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