Pierre Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 I thought the words DID come from the male? Didn't he tell her he wanted to be her boyfriend and she said no? What am I missing? He said: Are we exclusive? That is different than asking to be exclusive. Asking if we are exclusive does not mean he wants to be exclusive. Asking are we exclusive is not the same as "I would love you to be exclusive. It also puts the other person in a defensive posture. It becomes the ILY silly game. Who wants to say ILY without been reciprocated right away? Lets preytend she says YES to his question. What if he says: "Gee, we never discussed that." Furthermore, the "Are we exclusive?" question is the wrong question in her culture. Asking for exclusivity is asking the other person to stop seeing or f****ingg others. That does not go down very well with her cultural values. Only the lowest of the lowest would do that in Viet Nam. The right thing for the OP is to formally ask her to be his official GF. If he visits her parents home he will be blessed forever. It would also show her he is a worthy man. I am not Asian or Vietnamese, but all this info is easy to find in the Internet.
zengirl Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Pierre hit it on the head. But all is not lost! Just ask her to be your GF, tell her she's awesome, and treat her like gold. And be more cognizant of cultural differences. They can be a doozy.
Star Gazer Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 He said: Are we exclusive? That is different than asking to be exclusive. I am not Asian or Vietnamese, but all this info is easy to find in the Internet. Okay, I'm confused. Because after the "Are we exclusive?" discussion in this thread, he said: Yes. About the whole exclusive thing, she said she just doesn't want to label me a boyfriend, because she's been hurt in the past real bad, and wants to make sure I'm the right one. I told her I completely understand now and I'm willing to give her time.... So... I'm missing something. Because in this passage ab
Star Gazer Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 He said: Are we exclusive? That is different than asking to be exclusive. I am not Asian or Vietnamese, but all this info is easy to find in the Internet. Okay, I haven't dated an Asian woman either, and obviously have access to the internet, but I am still confused. Because after the "Are we exclusive?" discussion in this thread, he said: Yes. About the whole exclusive thing, she said she just doesn't want to label me a boyfriend, because she's been hurt in the past real bad, and wants to make sure I'm the right one. I told her I completely understand now and I'm willing to give her time.... So... I'm missing something. Because in this passage above, it sounds like he brought up what he wants, and she directly told him she does not want him to be her boyfriend...yet. So... When you say he's supposed to tell her what he wants and have her accept, isn't that what he tried to do? Except she denied him? He sounds like he cares a whole lot so I'm hoping you're right and it just will take more time.
zengirl Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 If she's an Asian girl (not Asian American, but actually Asian), in many cases---not to stereotype because different countries are different, but I believe Vietnam is similar to this: she's not going to admit she wants to be his GF unless he shows he REALLY wants her to be his GF. She's been preconditioned differently is all. She doesn't want to label him a BF because he is being all wishy washy and playeresque and westernized, and she recognizes that as something that is potentially dangerous. I'm not saying it's RIGHT, but I've seen it in Vietnamese girls before. (And Korean girls. Japanese girls don't really do this.) Again, this is not Vietnamese-heritage American; it has to do with culture, not Asianness.
Pierre Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 He sounds like he cares a whole lot so I'm hoping you're right and it just will take more time. Here are some bits of Vietnamese women and dating. She grew up over there and has been here for 6 years. Her roots will never be completely forgotten. First Impressions Making a positive first impression on a Vietnamese woman is important, and expressing a lasting interest in her is necessary because Vietnamese women do not ordinarily date without the goal of marriage. Dating a Vietnamese man requires patience, virtue and class. Initiating a date as a woman is often frowned upon in Vietnamese culture, and therefore the proper etiquette would be to wait for the man to approach you. Coming on to a man is a sign of an "easy" woman. Playing hard-to-get is a tradition of Vietnamese women, and it is expected they do not show immediate interest in the man they are dating, to assure that his feelings are moral. When courting a Vietnamese woman you will find that she is shy and reserved even when holding great feelings for you. This is a part of her culture and even for a Western man there is no way around that. You should treat your Asian with respect, lead the courtship with your heart and you may find a lifetime partner that will enrich your life as you have never imagined. Read more: Vietnamese Dating Etiquette | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/way_5506213_vietnamese-dating-etiquette.html#ixzz1Us0IeUJC
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 She is not texting or calling back. I'm starting to panic. :( I can never forgive myself if she leaves me for this.
Pierre Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 She is not texting or calling back. I'm starting to panic. :( I can never forgive myself if she leaves me for this. I think you hurt her with your "Are we exclusive" question. She showers with you, gives you great sex in the shower, and also showers with you with presents. She is Vietnamese and you have the balls to ask her "Are we exclusive"-----------------------meaning that you think she could be f****ingg these other guys. She tried to give you an answer to save face and you did not get it. You have insulted her very deeply. It was clearly implied that you were her MAN and the silly question about exclusivity did not apply. You should call her and formally ask her to be your GF. If you ask her parents they will worship you.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 I think you hurt her with your "Are we exclusive" question. She showers with you, gives you great sex in the shower, and also showers with you with presents. She is Vietnamese and you have the balls to ask her "Are we exclusive"-----------------------meaning that you think she could be f****ingg these other guys. She tried to give you an answer to save face and you did not get it. You have insulted her very deeply. It was clearly implied that you were her MAN and the silly question about exclusivity did not apply. You should call her and formally ask her to be your GF. If you ask her parents they will worship you. That's the thing Pierre. I did ask her and she said she needs more time. Her parents aren't here, they're still in Vietnam. She still hasn't called or replied to anything. I am now in self preservation mode ... preparing myself for heartache.
Ruby Slippers Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 As for this whole Vietnamese culture thing I don't believe you should have to be kiss anyones ass and basically forego your dignity to obtain ANY relationship. She has been in America for six years, not six months, no one is asking her to forget her roots and culture however that does not mean you have to suffer because "thats her culture" which I think is a crock. It takes two, not one. I agree. Most of the dating culture for Vietnamese women is simply the same as that for traditional/old-fashioned women. While I do think it's respectful and wise to learn something about the culture of someone you're dating and care about a future with, the OP is not the only one responsible for healthy communication in the relationship. If she will talk to you again, discuss these cultural and communication differences, and express the feelings and true intentions behind the words and actions.
zengirl Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 OP, first and foremost stop beating yourself up. You come across as a respectable gentleman. The fact that you did not go to that concert with your ex-gf speaks volumes about your intentions. As for this whole Vietnamese culture thing I don't believe you should have to be kiss anyones ass and basically forego your dignity to obtain ANY relationship. She has been in America for six years, not six months, no one is asking her to forget her roots and culture however that does not mean you have to suffer because "thats her culture" which I think is a crock. It takes two, not one. I think you have been very direct and respectful and not passive as other posters have implied. This girl is smarter then you think, almost manipulative. You should seriously consider if this dynamic is right for you. It's not about "kissing her ass"---it's about being understood. There's a language and cultural barrier. You have to work a bit harder. If he'd just been direct, "I want an exclusive relationship with you and want you to be my GF" instead of pussyfooting around it, and she'd played all hard to get, that'd be silly. But his wording is obscure and her sensibilities likely aren't compatible with it. If that's too much of a burden---to be understood---then sure, he shouldn't date her, but he seems to want to. And it's really just life when you're dating cross-culture.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 Day 2 and still no responses. Not even a simple text. I can't even sleep. I can't do anything. I don't want to let this consume me, but at this point I can't help it. I feel so helpless.
2sunny Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Because I asked her a direct question, "Are we exclusive?" It's a yes or no question, not "I'm not dating anyone else." It's probably true she's not dating anyone else, but she's left the option open. I'm a pretty straight shooter, and when I ask questions, I try to communicate them clearly. Besides, she eventually said that she doesn't see us as exclusive. you ARE communicating in a perfectly clear way... i wish more people would! she moved away from a direct answer. that means she's still looking around at other options. no need to return the gift - she gave it with good intentions. tell her since you're not exclusive - you will start spending time with other gals. then do it! she's not committing... i'd hand her back her products in your home and tell her she can't leave her stuff around... it sends the wrong message - that you two are exclusive. then get busy finding a gal that ONLY wants YOU! ps - you seem like a great guy.
Pierre Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 you ARE communicating in a perfectly clear way... i wish more people would! she moved away from a direct answer. that means she's still looking around at other options. no need to return the gift - she gave it with good intentions. tell her since you're not exclusive - you will start spending time with other gals. then do it! she's not committing... i'd hand her back her products in your home and tell her she can't leave her stuff around... it sends the wrong message - that you two are exclusive. then get busy finding a gal that ONLY wants YOU! ps - you seem like a great guy. Here we go again. Using the American dating method with a woman that comes from a different dating culture. The poster offended his GF very deeply, so she probably feels he is not a keeper. Don't forget that most Vietnamese women are looking for a husband when they date. If she feels the poster is not husband material she is likely done with him. OP's words and mannerisms seem clear to us with a euro culture, but it was very offensive to her. This concept of completely disregarding the cultural values of others was known as THE UGLY AMERICAN in the old days. Maybe you should look that up.
Ruby Slippers Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Here we go again. Using the American dating method with a woman that comes from a different dating culture. The poster offended his GF very deeply, so she probably feels he is not a keeper. Don't forget that most Vietnamese women are looking for a husband when they date. If she feels the poster is not husband material she is likely done with him. If she's going to get "deeply offended" by something that is so trivial in the culture in which she now lives, she really should hand out a "Vietnamese dating rules" book from the beginning. She's obviously not that traditional, or she wouldn't have taken showers with him, left her stuff at his place, and had sex with him. A traditional girl would have waited until marriage for all this. There are two sides to this. OP, I think you are taking on too much of the burden of responsibility here.
Pierre Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 If she's going to get "deeply offended" by something that is so trivial in the culture in which she now lives, she really should hand out a "Vietnamese dating rules" book from the beginning. She's obviously not that traditional, or she wouldn't have taken showers with him, left her stuff at his place, and had sex with him. A traditional girl would have waited until marriage for all this. There are two sides to this. OP, I think you are taking on too much of the burden of responsibility here. You are correct! Virginity until marriage is expected over there. The fact that she has broken this tradition suggests she is trying to be more american. However, other different cultural traits could influence her behavior. She is not answering the calls of op. She must be very upset or maybe she truly adapted to american dating culture and was seeing someone else.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 You are correct! Virginity until marriage is expected over there. The fact that she has broken this tradition suggests she is trying to be more american. However, other different cultural traits could influence her behavior. She is not answering the calls of op. She must be very upset or maybe she truly adapted to american dating culture and was seeing someone else. I packed up her toothbrush and hair products and put it out of sight. Right now I am trying to salvage myself. I'm already heartbroken. I know it's silly to feel this way over a girl you dated for only 6 weeks, but still. She made me feel more special than my ex-fiancee, and I was falling in love. There's absolutely nothing I can do now. She knows how I feel, she knows that I'm sorry. She won't give me even an inch now. Her silence, it seems, is my answer. Trust me, I've toyed with the idea of going to her work, but I know that will be too desperate and it won't end good. I've done all I can. I can't text or call her anymore. I don't think I've done anything to deserve treatment like this. All I wanted to be was a good, honest guy for her. She said she liked me because everytime she thought of me she thought of fun and peace. I don't think she thinks that way anymore. That's lost, and I'm done...
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 ps - you seem like a great guy. Thank you. I'll hold on to these words for hope...
olivec Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 I've been dating this girl for six weeks. Not a long time I know, but since then, she has put her toothbrush and hair products at my apartment, and I recently celebrated a birthday, where she treated me to a $200 dinner, and bought me a $500 gift. She also says things like she checks my Facebook for weird messages from other girls. But now recently she tells me that we're not exclusive, and even though she's not dating anyone else, the option to do so is still available. She's been the sweetest girl, so I dunno. Has anyone else gotten mixed signals like that? Everything she's done says that we're practically bf/gf, but then she turns around and says that I'm not. It's not a big deal, but then I get confused on how to react when I find out she's hanging out with other guys that want to date her too (although she insists that they're not dates). I just turned 30. I thought things like this would be easier to read by now. *sigh* Man honestly i would get rid of her shes playing games with you and eventually shes gunna find somebody else and sleep with them. In the end your gunna get hurt.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 Hi Zengirl. I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I think her communication skills and actions should be called into question, not his. I do understand cross cultural differences and the art of being old fashioned and elusive and having the guy be the alpha basically, however certain things in his post rang alarm bells. She seems more westernized then one tends to believe. Having sex with him, sleeping over, bring personalized items over, having a "bad experience" with being labeled, I think she is very much aware of westernized dating practices which she seems to be participating in very well. That is not to say that her Vietnamese culture doesnt come into place in all this. Do we know how old she is ? Maybe when she was in Vietnam she wasnt old enough to date. Maybe the OP can answer this. She is 30, as am I.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 Jack, you do seem a like a genuine bloke. (Im not even British!) Do not contact her further. Maintain no contact at this point. You need to heal. Stop beating yourself up and worry about the here and now and the future. It seems you have a lot to offer a woman and your intentions were nothing but 110% sincere. When you are ready to date again, women will appreciate you trust me. Most guys I know would of went to that concert with their ex gf. Keep you chin up high. If she contacts you do not answer her. Like I said earlier the dynamics between both of you do not add up, and that is just my take on things. Thanks Joe. I keep questioning whether I should've asked her about other men, whether she dated or slept with any of them. I don't think my tone was accusatory but I could be wrong. That's what I regret the most, and that's what she was fixated on. She later said that she understands the logic behind it. That she moved too fast with me, sleeping with me and spending money on me, but that's only because she said it felt right with me, and not because she is cheap. When she left, she didn't sound mad. But her not answering my texts or calls, I don't know what she's thinking. Believe me, I'm trying so hard not to beat myself up over this. But it's impossible right now. All I want is to hear her sweet FOB voice again.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 This is the part of the conversation where she shut down on me. We were talking about how nice she is to other guys. She said she doesn't want to make enemies with other people. She is trying to succeed in her business and does not want to make any enemies, so she wants to only be nice and courteous. I told her that's fine, but these guys will only interpret that as her liking them. I said you give guys an inch and they will keep on coming. And that's when she shut down on me and started crying. Was I in the wrong? Does she just have some kind of deep internal issue that she doesn't want to tell me about? More facts: She divorced two years ago after a four-year marriage after discovering her husband is gay. And she was raped by a family friend of the exhusband when they were still together.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 Well these knew facts that you just divulged just sent this thread into a different direction. Not only could we be dealing with a cultural issue, this can most certainly be a Psychological issue, rape, sexual abuse, a divorce these are all things that could potentially influence the way SHE interprets things such as communication. Certain things may trigger horrific past experiences hence her shutting down. Yeah I know. I think that's what happened. And I don't know what to do. I feel so guilty. I want to text her and say I know what I said might've brought up some things in the past and I'm sorry.. But I've texted her so much already yesterday and I don't know if that would help.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 You know Jack. Some people will disagree with me on what I am a bout to say. I am a firm believer that if you are intimate sexual with another person, I don't think it is horrific to ask them if they are doing the same with other people especially with other people. This is 2011, STD's are rampant, and that is how they are spread, non-monongomous situations. How you went about asking her is a whole another topic. If you asked her with kid gloves, I see nothing wrong with that, but if you were accusatory, jealous, or abrasive, then I can see where she would get offended. Everyone has a sexual past, but in order to establish a relationship with clear boundaries, this sort of information needs to come out especially because you two are sexual. We also have unprotected sex. I didn't raise my voice. We were having a conversation, and I kept the tone as calm as I could have.
Author jackmerridew Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 Thats all the more reason to be cognizant of weather or not she is with other men, your health is at risk. I can see why she got upset, she was raped, and probably doesn't feel comfortable discussing it. I think you need to ease up on the texts, give it time, go no contact. I know it is very hard to do, and you are going to miss her like crazy but at this point bombarding her with texts will only drive her away. She needs space. I just sent her one last text. In it, I promised that this would be the last message. After this realization, I had to get it off my chest that I am so sorry that I must've brought up bad memories for her, and that I'm so so sorry. There's nothing I can do now. I have to accept now that it is over. I don't know if she can ever forgive me or look at me the same way again.
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