torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I can't tell if I'm being unreasonable so an outside opinion might give me some perspective. See my thread history for back story on this guy I'm involved with long distance. We've been in regular daily contact often talking for a couple of hours on the im/phone/skype a night, and the initiating has been mutual. He's been very consistent in his contact and even said to me that he feels daily contact is important since we're long distance. Things were going well, but something has been off the last few days. Three nights ago we were talking and he was noticeably distant. I mentioned it and he agreed that he was feeling distant. Then he backpedalled and said it had nothing to do with me but that he was in a weird, depressive mood where he felt detached from everything. He is moody in general, so this made sense but this was the first time his mood has affected his behavior to me. I was a little concerned but accepted his response and tried to cheer him up. The next day I didn't hear from him all day, which was a first. I texted him and got no response. By midnight I was starting to get concerned since he has a serious heart/lung condition even though he's only 25--he's getting major surgery to fix it in a couple of months. Finally around 2am I got a response to my text and he asked if I was up. We started talking and he told me that he had pulled an all nighter the night before and just crashed all day. He texted me as soon as he woke up. It seemed reasonable to me. I told him I had been a little worried about him because of the heart thing and was glad he was OK. He said he felt really bad about making me worry. He also said we need to make sure to stay in touch. He added "I'm totally committed to you." Well the day is over and I haven't heard from him again all day. I know he was working today and that he pulled an all nighter last night--his schedule is out of wack. But if it's the case he got home after work and just crashed I'm surprised he didn't at least send me a text or something, especially since he knows I like some form of daily contact and also after our conversation last night. In the past he's texted me from work many times. That's not something I expect or require, but I'm just saying he could have contacted me if he had wanted to. I guess what bothers me isn't the behavior itself but that it's a sudden, sudden shift from how things were before. Am I being unreasonable? I guess this whole thing has reminded me of how I don't really know this guy and made me question my assumptions about his consistency. I was thinking about contacting him but I decided to hold back. I'm sure I'll hear from him at some point tomorrow and most likely he'll say to me that he was tired and crashed when he got back. I'm just not sure if I should not mention that it bothered me that he made no attempt at contact. Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
Mr. Slim Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I think at this point you have to just trust him when he says he crashed out or was otherwise unable to get back to you in a timely manner. Not saying he should get an unlimited pass, but he seems to be saying and doing the right things otherwise. Let's face it, long distance relationships are very difficult and hugely built on trust... if you don't have it at the base level, then this isn't going to go very far. Also, maybe his behavior is indirectly suggesting that despite his words, maybe he's not up to daily contact. I know I have probably seemed "distant" to people before, when the truth was that frankly I didn't have a whole lot to say that I didn't say yesterday. Perhaps backing off to 4-5 times a week will re-invigorate the discussions.
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 TC, I wouldn't worry at this point. If he is in a depressive mood, he may not feel like talking to anyone much. I wouldn't ask him about it, it's best not to force these things. You don't want to put any additional pressure on him if he is already feeling down for whatever reason. I like consistency, but being realistic - emotions and moods fluctuate. The longer you are with someone the more you will get used to those fluctuations and it won't freak you out as much. I know it's hard (hell *I* know it's hard) but just be patient and wait it out. I know that when I am feeling moody and depressed, I tend to withdraw and appear distant. It's really no reflection on the other person. Something else to consider: the high intensity of contact can't be kept up forever. Over time - people tend to relax and settle into a more laid back pattern.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I won't mention anything if I hear from him today. But I want to prepare for the worst case scenario. If he doesn't contact me today then what? At what length of time is it unacceptable? Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I worry about anyone who's that invested before they meet in person. (And not the current BF but the last exBF and I totally started planning on dating before I moved, but it was all a "You're coming back here anyway, we'll get a chance to see" kind of thing. So I'm not against forming relationships online or anything----just until you've actually spent time together, all bets are off.) And EVERY DAY contact does seem a bit much, as the poster said above: maybe he's just running out of stuff to say and it's not exciting him as much; that coupled with depression would = not much contact. When does it become "unacceptable"? I don't know. I'd say, it's rude not to return a text message or phone call in 24-36 hours in most cases and an email in 3-4 days are my general standards of communication. But that's "return." If you haven't contacted him, I have no yardstick for it from my Miss Manners-y side of my brain . . . it's all about what is unacceptable to you in the relationship dynamic. And in order to decide things like that, you have to be willing to give up the person for an acceptable relationship dynamic, rather than trying to mold any particular person to what you consider acceptable. Most things in relationships fall along those lines----you decide what you need, then you consider if the person is giving it to you; if not, you ask for it and be prepared to leave if it doesn't work out. But for that, you have to be looking for fulfillment, not just a particular person. I don't think, "People on the internet think you should call me every day and this is unacceptable behavior since you've waited 3 days!" is ever meaningful or useful data.
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I won't mention anything if I hear from him today. But I want to prepare for the worst case scenario. If he doesn't contact me today then what? At what length of time is it unacceptable? I have been pondering this question myself. What's acceptable in early dating? In an established relationship? In a LDR situation? After what time does it become a red flag? a dumpable offense? I would like to hear some answers too. If I were you, I would give him till the end of today. If you hear nothing, initiate tomorrow.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I worry about anyone who's that invested before they meet in person. (And not the current BF but the last exBF and I totally started planning on dating before I moved, but it was all a "You're coming back here anyway, we'll get a chance to see" kind of thing. So I'm not against forming relationships online or anything----just until you've actually spent time together, all bets are off.) And EVERY DAY contact does seem a bit much, as the poster said above: maybe he's just running out of stuff to say and it's not exciting him as much; that coupled with depression would = not much contact. Did you and your ex ever go a day without any form of contact when you were getting close to meeting and were exclusive with each other? What's the longest you went? My guy was already planning on moving to where I live by the way. He's not moving here for me, so it was a similar situation. When does it become "unacceptable"? I don't know. I'd say, it's rude not to return a text message or phone call in 24-36 hours in most cases and an email in 3-4 days are my general standards of communication. But that's "return." If you haven't contacted him, I have no yardstick for it from my Miss Manners-y side of my brain . . . it's all about what is unacceptable to you in the relationship dynamic. And in order to decide things like that, you have to be willing to give up the person for an acceptable relationship dynamic, rather than trying to mold any particular person to what you consider acceptable. Most things in relationships fall along those lines----you decide what you need, then you consider if the person is giving it to you; if not, you ask for it and be prepared to leave if it doesn't work out. But for that, you have to be looking for fulfillment, not just a particular person. I don't think, "People on the internet think you should call me every day and this is unacceptable behavior since you've waited 3 days!" is ever meaningful or useful data. I agree but I've also never been in a LDR before, so I'm not sure if I should relax my usual standards. In every relationship I've been in we've had some form of daily contact unless there were some obvious problem like being out of cell reception, etc. I never even had to ask for it. Because I've never been without it in a relationship I'm not really sure what my tolerance level is or whether it's normal, hence why I posed this question. If I had to take a guess I think I am somebody who probably needs daily contact unless otherwise specified. Doesn't have to be a conversation but a simple text or whatever. I always thought that was standard in relationships but some of the responses are making me wonder if I'm too rigid. Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I think you do have to "relax your usual standards." As I've already told you, from my perspective you and he have put way too much onto this relationship way too fast. You've left little room for "natural" learning and developing to occur. Now that you've already gone that route, I know it will be super hard to allow things to chill a bit. I hope you can. If you REALLY believe, as you say you do, that the two of you are a couple and that you are already in love, you'll have to have faith that things will work out right when you are finally together. Also, part of love is trust and being able to believe what he tells you. One of my issues with the "false intimacy" that's fairly easy to fall into online is that so much sharing happens so fast that, sometimes, it creates a fake "peaking" of all of the "new love" endorphins, excitement, etc. Then there is nothing to do but to let it recede. If all of this were happening in real life, when the inevitable recession took place, other aspects of your relationship would be well established and they would take precedence. Like, stuff you like to do together. Routines, working through stuff. Dealing with differences. Online, or on the phone, there is just the big rush of making the connection, "falling in love," getting more and more intense and excited about it - and then nothing to hold it all up when that stuff has reached its maximum level. So, maybe now you are facing this phase and I think it's bound to be difficult. IMO, you just need to watch out. Don't press on keeping up the intensity. See if you can leave something for later. I really believe that successful long term relationships rely often on BOTH people being able to "keep something in the tank" for the long haul, rather than using up all the fuel in the opening salvos.
tigressA Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I think you do have to "relax your usual standards." As I've already told you, from my perspective you and he have put way too much onto this relationship way too fast. You've left little room for "natural" learning and developing to occur. Now that you've already gone that route, I know it will be super hard to allow things to chill a bit. I hope you can. If you REALLY believe, as you say you do, that the two of you are a couple and that you are already in love, you'll have to have faith that things will work out right when you are finally together. Also, part of love is trust and being able to believe what he tells you. One of my issues with the "false intimacy" that's fairly easy to fall into online is that so much sharing happens so fast that, sometimes, it creates a fake "peaking" of all of the "new love" endorphins, excitement, etc. Then there is nothing to do but to let it recede. If all of this were happening in real life, when the inevitable recession took place, other aspects of your relationship would be well established and they would take precedence. Like, stuff you like to do together. Routines, working through stuff. Dealing with differences. Online, or on the phone, there is just the big rush of making the connection, "falling in love," getting more and more intense and excited about it - and then nothing to hold it all up when that stuff has reached its maximum level. So, maybe now you are facing this phase and I think it's bound to be difficult. IMO, you just need to watch out. Don't press on keeping up the intensity. See if you can leave something for later. I really believe that successful long term relationships rely often on BOTH people being able to "keep something in the tank" for the long haul, rather than using up all the fuel in the opening salvos. I agree with this. This is why when I did online dating, I preferred to meet the guy in person as soon as possible. Admittedly it was more difficult to extricate myself from a situation that wasn't going to work out when I had waited weeks to meet someone because there was all that prior buildup, all that 'false intimacy'.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I think you do have to "relax your usual standards." As I've already told you, from my perspective you and he have put way too much onto this relationship way too fast. You've left little room for "natural" learning and developing to occur. Now that you've already gone that route, I know it will be super hard to allow things to chill a bit. I hope you can. If you REALLY believe, as you say you do, that the two of you are a couple and that you are already in love, you'll have to have faith that things will work out right when you are finally together. Also, part of love is trust and being able to believe what he tells you. One of my issues with the "false intimacy" that's fairly easy to fall into online is that so much sharing happens so fast that, sometimes, it creates a fake "peaking" of all of the "new love" endorphins, excitement, etc. Then there is nothing to do but to let it recede. If all of this were happening in real life, when the inevitable recession took place, other aspects of your relationship would be well established and they would take precedence. Like, stuff you like to do together. Routines, working through stuff. Dealing with differences. Online, or on the phone, there is just the big rush of making the connection, "falling in love," getting more and more intense and excited about it - and then nothing to hold it all up when that stuff has reached its maximum level. So, maybe now you are facing this phase and I think it's bound to be difficult. IMO, you just need to watch out. Don't press on keeping up the intensity. See if you can leave something for later. I really believe that successful long term relationships rely often on BOTH people being able to "keep something in the tank" for the long haul, rather than using up all the fuel in the opening salvos. Hmm. This is a really interesting observation and you articulated some of the thoughts that have been running through my head. I have been worried for awhile that the intensity was unsustainable and we were over-sharing, so maybe you're right that we've emptied our tanks. For two months our conversations were effortless but I think the last week or so I've noticed that I've been at a loss more and maybe so has he. It's hard without shared experiences to keep that going. Assuming I hear back from him in a reasonable time and everything is OK, I think I will try to pull back a bit to achieve a more healthy balance. Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 FTR, I also agree with Mme. Chaucer. Did you and your ex ever go a day without any form of contact when you were getting close to meeting and were exclusive with each other? What's the longest you went? My guy was already planning on moving to where I live by the way. He's not moving here for me, so it was a similar situation. We never spoke anything NEAR every day. We probably emailed or Skyped every third day. The exception would be the week right before I moved. . . we spoke almost every day that week. Then I didn't even call/text him till I'd already been in town 3 days, though I emailed him briefly to say my flight had made it safely. We were nowhere as "swept up" as you appear to be, though we had already agreed to start dating essentially. It was less stated and more natural . . . I guess. I don't really stress over contact. When things are good and natural and flowing, it's not something I ever think about unless there's too much of it and it starts to feel forced. But you are someone who needs daily contact. My current BF and I have near-daily contact, and it doesn't feel oppressive, but it's not something I need. It's just our natural flow. I think NEEDING daily contact is kind of a sign of neediness (to me), in either gender, but that could just be a style difference, I don't know----I do want to clarify I mean "needing it to feel validated and secure in the relationship," which isn't the same as naturally having it because you dig talking to each other; I know many couples that naturally develop it, but it's not a personal requirement so much as an evolution of the dynamic after you've been with the person awhile. I had daily contact in longer relationships, but this relationship is the first one I've had it from early on. And it's more because it suits his communication style.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 I think NEEDING daily contact is kind of a sign of neediness (to me) Eh. I think that's a little harsh. There are a lot of people who expect some form of daily contact unless otherwise specified. It's a style difference. Anyway, I'm not even sure if I'm one of those people but what bothers me is the sudden break in pattern without explanation especially after all he said the other day about us staying in better touch. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 I broke down and sent him a "hey" text. No response.
Star Gazer Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I broke down and sent him a "hey" text. No response. Patience.
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Eh. I think that's a little harsh. There are a lot of people who expect some form of daily contact unless otherwise specified. It's a style difference. Anyway, I'm not even sure if I'm one of those people but what bothers me is the sudden break in pattern without explanation especially after all he said the other day about us staying in better touch. I'm not sure what to make of it. Whether it truly "is" needy or not was not really my point (I'm not sure that can be objectively proven either way, ever), but more: If a SO presented me with that need, for validation and security in the relationship, I would think him needy. (That doesn't mean I think my BF is needy for calling me frequently. Because if I were to say I needed a few days to myself or to not call him back immediately, he'd be cool.) So. . . that's something to perhaps think about as you engage with other people in the world, who may not have the same need you do. Unless you plan to eliminate every guy who doesn't need daily contact (which is also a valid choice. . . but I think that's pretty rare).
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 Because if I were to say I needed a few days to myself or to not call him back immediately, he'd be cool. I would be fine with this too but it's the lack of explanation and sudden break in pattern that concern me. I guess I'll just have to wait it out...
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I would be fine with this too but it's the lack of explanation and sudden break in pattern that concern me. I guess I'll just have to wait it out... A break in a pattern can just be the beginning of the new pattern. If you truly NEED daily contact, you'll resist a new pattern. If you can be secure without it, you won't. Either way, the relationship may succeed or may fail. Trying to figure out "what it means when. . . . (fill in the blank)" is almost always impossible without knowing the person in question, so I've no idea what the guy will do. Wait is all you can do.
Star Gazer Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I would be fine with this too but it's the lack of explanation and sudden break in pattern that concern me... I'm not sure I believe that's true. Even if he said he needed a few days of "him time," I think you'd worry about why he needed that time, because it's a break in the pattern. Someone who doesn't NEED as much communication wouldn't be the slightest bit unnerved by such a request.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure I believe that's true. Even if he said he needed a few days of "him time," I think you'd worry about why he needed that time, because it's a break in the pattern. Someone who doesn't NEED as much communication wouldn't be the slightest bit unnerved by such a request. For me it's more of an issue of words and actions lining up. If a guy tells me he needs a little "me" time and then takes it, his words and actions are aligning. But if he says we should stay in daily contact and then immediately drops off I'm left puzzled. Anyway he told me when we last spoke that we would talk tonight so if I don't hear back from him before the night is over something is up. Trying to stay positive; we'll just wait and see. Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
Professor X Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I'm not sure I believe that's true. Even if he said he needed a few days of "him time," I think you'd worry about why he needed that time, because it's a break in the pattern. Someone who doesn't NEED as much communication wouldn't be the slightest bit unnerved by such a request. Well said SG.
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 For me it's more of an issue of words and actions lining up. If a guy tells me he needs a little "me" time and then takes it, his words and actions are aligning. But if he says we should stay in daily contact and then immediately drops off I'm left puzzled. Anyway he told me when we last spoke that we would talk tonight so if I don't hear back from him before the night is over something is up. Trying to stay positive; we'll just wait and see. Well, what did he say exactly? Often people take a person's meaning different from what they meant. And also, did he say it freely? Or did you prod him into saying it? A lot of times (men especially) a person will say something to avoid a confrontation or avoid disappointing their partner when put under pressure by the partner. It's why there's a big difference between asserting what you need and want and stating it and putting pressure on it (being needy, really). At any rate, earlier you said he said that the two of you needed to make sure and stay in touch. To me, that does not mean anything NEAR daily contact. I consider it "staying in touch" with someone if I speak to them a few times a month (obviously odd in a relationship, but there's still a lot of room for different timeframes). I'm not sure I believe that's true. Even if he said he needed a few days of "him time," I think you'd worry about why he needed that time, because it's a break in the pattern. Someone who doesn't NEED as much communication wouldn't be the slightest bit unnerved by such a request. From what the poster has written here and elsewhere, I agree. And in general principle as well-----people who are worrying about the frequency of communication in the relationship are either in a relationship that isn't working or need to deal with their own insecurities. So, it's one or the other, really. (Potentially both.)
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) Well, what did he say exactly? Often people take a person's meaning different from what they meant. And also, did he say it freely? Or did you prod him into saying it? A lot of times (men especially) a person will say something to avoid a confrontation or avoid disappointing their partner when put under pressure by the partner. It's why there's a big difference between asserting what you need and want and stating it and putting pressure on it (being needy, really). I didn't prod him. I didn't say I was upset about not hearing from him. The most I said was that I was relieved he was OK because of his heart condition, which is true--I was starting to worry about that. He kept saying he missed me and he missed our conversations. He said he missed talking to me that day when he fell out of touch and would make sure to stay in better contact. He knows I was going on a trip today--which I postponed this morning until tomorrow, and he asked me if I would be able to talk tonight. I told him I would. He said we'll be able to talk for awhile tonight then. On reflection I agree that his being out of touch yesterday is fine but I think if I don't hear from him tonight--especially after I texted him and after he initiated a plan to talk this evening--it's reasonable for me to be concerned. Edited August 10, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I didn't prod him. I didn't say I was upset about not hearing from him. The most I said was that I was relieved he was OK because of his heart condition, which is true--I was starting to worry about that. He kept saying he missed me and he missed our conversations. He said he missed talking to me that day when he fell out of touch and would make sure to stay in better contact. He knows I was going on a trip today--which I postponed this morning until tomorrow, and he asked me if I would be able to talk tonight. I told him I would. He said we'll be able to talk for awhile tonight then. On reflection I agree that his being out of touch yesterday is fine but I think if I don't hear from him tonight--especially after I texted him and after he initiated a plan to talk this evening--it's reasonable for me to be concerned. If he said he'd talk tonight, and he doesn't talk tonight, I agree that's a bad sign. Anytime someone says they'll do something specific and doesn't follow through = a bad sign. However, I think by putting pressure on the communication and texting him first, out of neediness, really, as it's not like you had anything to say if it was a "Hey" text and you already knew he'd call tonight, as he said he would, then you're only hurting your own communication dynamic.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 If he said he'd talk tonight, and he doesn't talk tonight, I agree that's a bad sign. Anytime someone says they'll do something specific and doesn't follow through = a bad sign. However, I think by putting pressure on the communication and texting him first, out of neediness, really, as it's not like you had anything to say if it was a "Hey" text and you already knew he'd call tonight, as he said he would, then you're only hurting your own communication dynamic. I disagree on this. There's nothing needy about sending a simple "hey" text to your partner, especially if you haven't spoken in over a day. We do that sort of thing all the time.
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