youngskywalker Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I think this is an excellent post. I agree that fairy tail love is way different than true real life love. I can't tell you how many times I've been dumped in the past because of fickle reasons. Because of that I've became deeply cynical of woman. I had the good fortune of growing up in a family that was tightly knitted but never found it for myself until recently. When you find someone who loves you for who you are and is willing to work through problems it's a wonderful thing. It's sooooooo damn funny that many people in here, when I've told them about my issues with my g/f have just told me to dump her... I didn't and decided to stick with it. I'm glad I did. Love is more than sex and what you get. Love is something you give and receive. Now I'm getting the sex btw and I'm happy.
Author Audrina Posted August 8, 2011 Author Posted August 8, 2011 I think this is an excellent post. I agree that fairy tail love is way different than true real life love. I can't tell you how many times I've been dumped in the past because of fickle reasons. Because of that I've became deeply cynical of woman. I had the good fortune of growing up in a family that was tightly knitted but never found it for myself until recently. When you find someone who loves you for who you are and is willing to work through problems it's a wonderful thing. It's sooooooo damn funny that many people in here, when I've told them about my issues with my g/f have just told me to dump her... I didn't and decided to stick with it. I'm glad I did. Love is more than sex and what you get. Love is something you give and receive. Now I'm getting the sex btw and I'm happy. To be honest, I choose not to post about the issues I have in my relationship because I know I'll be told to dump my boyfriend, which isn't what I'm interested in. I'm trying to figure out how to resolve the issues so we can have a successful relationship. If you just end relationship after relationship because of silly problems that you refuse to work through EVEN IF the relationship doesn't work out in the end, what do you learn? Nothing other than to run when things don't go your way. I'm so glad that there are some level headed people who are members of this forum and have been able to figure out what real life relationships are like. It takes time, for awhile, when I was younger, I was wrapped up in what I thought they should be like too. Vertex, I was in a horrible year old relationship when I was 18 and I thought that ATTENTION equated love. It didn't matter if it was negative attention or positive attention. The relationship was horrible, and my boyfriend at that time was extremely emotionally abusive, but I look on that relationship now and laugh -- what was I thinking?! I'm so glad I moved on, matured and have been able to find what I'm looking for. Even if he isn't the man I end up marrying, I'm a better person for being in the relationship that I'm in now.
VertexSquared Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) The biggest thing that's helped me is to be realistic about the kind of girl I'd be most compatible with. Audrina: Yeah I do the same thing too. WTF was wrong with me? XD I think as long as you can honestly look at your relationship and say "I am better off for going through this relationship regardless of how it turns out" then you're on the right track to learning/growing in terms of relationships. Breaking up is an easy-out solution and doesn't really address the problems that you will probably experience again in the future. Edited August 8, 2011 by VertexSquared
sunshinegirl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I do think many LSers are caught up in the expectation of a perfect relationship. It's saddeningly evident in the advice many give - breaking up and finding someone 'better and more suitable' is seen as a band-aid to every single problem posted about here. Bf doesn't want to come back early from work to have dinner with you? Break up! Gf gained 15 lbs? Break up! Husband is messy and she is tidy? You both shouldn't have gotten married to begin with, this is going to eat at you, best divorce now! At one point, I nearly threw away a relationship that was 99% good, because I was expecting no less than perfection. It has been nearly two years since that time now, and I am so glad I did not. So, I may sound jaded, but I would say that the first step to reconciling reality with unrealistic expectations would be to take the things some people say here with a grain of salt. I don't know a single person who fits some peoples' expectations, and I don't think they themselves do either. Ha - yes, I very much agree with you. I got some of that "you're doomed!" negativity when I posted about my husband's clutter in our office and our differing levels of physical activity. There does seem to be a weird trend on LS of seeing a red flag in everything and some sense that any difference in opinions or habits is insurmountable. I think there is a wide gray area when you start talking about the "work" it takes to make a relationship successful. What's the nature of the work? How much effort does it require and how do you feel about yourself, and about your partner, as a result of the work you are doing? Are they doing a reciprocal amount of work to honor your needs and wants? I think the viability of a relationship (and the compatibility of those involved) hangs on these sorts of kinds of questions.
Author Audrina Posted August 8, 2011 Author Posted August 8, 2011 The biggest thing that's helped me is to be realistic about the kind of girl I'd be most compatible with. Audrina: Yeah I do the same thing too. WTF was wrong with me? XD I think as long as you can honestly look at your relationship and say "I am better off for going through this relationship regardless of how it turns out" then you're on the right track to learning/growing in terms of relationships. Breaking up is an easy-out solution and doesn't really address the problems that you will probably experience again in the future. Exactly, I'm not saying that breaking up is always wrong, sometimes it's obviously what needs to be done, but when you fail to resolve minor issues and instead just run the other way, what are you getting from the relationship and more importantly how can you expect it to succeed? Or how can you expect any other relationship you're in during the future to succeed? I realized a long time ago who I was looking for, but I honestly thought I'd never find him, since then I've realized that my expectations were realistic and I did find exactly what I'm looking for. Our relationship isn't glamorous, but we don't need it to be. We spend our time doing things that we both enjoy, going for hikes, laughing at immature jokes, driving around and singing to the radio. What more could I ask for? He's patient, kind, understanding and most importantly of all he accepts me for me. That's the most important part. I know for a fact that you aren't going to marry every man you meet, and not every couple that's together is going to get married. I go into relationships knowing that, and that helps me realize when the bad times aren't worth going through, and when they are worth enduring so you can continue to be with the person you're with. When I see on this forum "my girlfriend gained 15lbs I want to leave her" I can't help but laugh. What would that person do when their significant other had a baby and her body never went back to what it was before? Physical attraction is important, yes, but it's not the key to any relationship. The key is an emotional connection and the ability to communicate freely with one another. I'm happy with how I've matured when it comes to relationships and feel very assured that I will end up in a successful relationship in the future, because I understand that above all, a relationship takes a ton of work.
Author Audrina Posted August 8, 2011 Author Posted August 8, 2011 Ha - yes, I very much agree with you. I got some of that "you're doomed!" negativity when I posted about my husband's clutter in our office and our differing levels of physical activity. There does seem to be a weird trend on LS of seeing a red flag in everything and some sense that any difference in opinions or habits is insurmountable. I think there is a wide gray area when you start talking about the "work" it takes to make a relationship successful. What's the nature of the work? How much effort does it require and how do you feel about yourself, and about your partner, as a result of the work you are doing? Are they doing a reciprocal amount of work to honor your needs and wants? I think the viability of a relationship (and the compatibility of those involved) hangs on these sorts of kinds of questions. All relationships take work, and by work I mean, it takes effort by both people to manage to make a relationship successful. You both have to be willing to sit down and have a discussion with each other about the reality of the situation, how it affects one another and what you can do to change the problematic situation. After that it takes a concerted effort on each person's behalf to exercise patience with the other while they attempt to make improvements. Relationships are no summer breeze or a walk in the park, sometimes you really have to hike up that mountain to reach a place where it's stable, and it's up to the people in the relationship to determine if that relationship is worth the hike. I always tell people, if the good days greatly outnumber the bad days, maybe it's time to move on. If you have a fundamental difference that cannot be resolved, maybe it's time to move on. If there is a serious compatibility issue, again maybe it's time to move on. But people need to realize that successful relationships take time, effort, open communication and patience.
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 My main criteria for wanting to be in a relationship with someone in my early 20s: to be knocked unconscious by his looks
sunshinegirl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 All relationships take work, and by work I mean, it takes effort by both people to manage to make a relationship successful. You both have to be willing to sit down and have a discussion with each other about the reality of the situation, how it affects one another and what you can do to change the problematic situation. After that it takes a concerted effort on each person's behalf to exercise patience with the other while they attempt to make improvements. Relationships are no summer breeze or a walk in the park, sometimes you really have to hike up that mountain to reach a place where it's stable, and it's up to the people in the relationship to determine if that relationship is worth the hike. I always tell people, if the good days greatly outnumber the bad days, maybe it's time to move on. If you have a fundamental difference that cannot be resolved, maybe it's time to move on. If there is a serious compatibility issue, again maybe it's time to move on. But people need to realize that successful relationships take time, effort, open communication and patience. Audrina, I agree with you for the most part, though I hesitate to endorse all manner of "work". For instance, I was involved in two seriously unhealthy relationships; in both cases I hung in there for way too long thinking it was normal to put in as much "work" as I was. My work wasn't reciprocated and it violated my own values, boundaries, and desires. But I thought "hey! all relationships are work, so I'm just going to keep plugging away and hope that one day it all pays off!" Sorry I keep using quotes around the word; I do agree that relationships need care, nurturing, and attention from both parties involved. That being said, so far in my marriage that hasn't felt like work (not to say that it never will!); it certainly feels nothing like the bottomless pit of giving I had become in those prior bad relationships. THAT definitely felt like work; exhausting, self-emptying, ungratifying, thankless, and ultimately un-reciprocated. So I think we're on the same page... I just tend to be a little cautious about how people are using the word "work". Hope that makes sense.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I fail to see the distinction between the dating pool for men and women, and maybe this is why I've had successful relationships. Whenever I wasn't finding what I was looking for, I looked somewhere else. For example, just a few months ago one of my guy friends was complaining that he wasn't meeting any women other than crazy, desperate women and he didn't think he would ever find someone he could actually get into. I asked him where he was looking to pick up women and he told me bars. I told him that if wanted to find women who were more interested in the things he liked, why didn't he attempt to meet them elsewhere, since he's into sports - I suggested a sports bar and grill. That night he took my advice, went to a sports grill and what happened? He ran into a woman he had met before and was always into but never got a chance with, and she just happened to be single and they have been happily dating since. If you see yourself as doomed, you are doomed. If you change your mindset you'd be amazed at what you might find. Ok. I see that you and I are talking about different issues. I believe that switching where you find a date is a tier 1 issue. Very minor overall. Look at the hurdles a couple has to face overall, by years or by milestones. Initial attraction, Dating, Marriage, Kids, Careers... ect. 0-3 months is like Tier 1 3-12 months is like Tier 2 1-3 years is Tier 3 3-7 years is Tier 4 I would be less than 5 percent of couples make it to tier 4 or beyond. Each stage has it's own fairytale expectations and issues. A girl who is very wise and adept at initial attraction and dating issues, may still have crazy expectations of marriage. You see what I'm getting at?
Author Audrina Posted August 8, 2011 Author Posted August 8, 2011 Audrina, I agree with you for the most part, though I hesitate to endorse all manner of "work". For instance, I was involved in two seriously unhealthy relationships; in both cases I hung in there for way too long thinking it was normal to put in as much "work" as I was. My work wasn't reciprocated and it violated my own values, boundaries, and desires. But I thought "hey! all relationships are work, so I'm just going to keep plugging away and hope that one day it all pays off!" Sorry I keep using quotes around the word; I do agree that relationships need care, nurturing, and attention from both parties involved. That being said, so far in my marriage that hasn't felt like work (not to say that it never will!); it certainly feels nothing like the bottomless pit of giving I had become in those prior bad relationships. THAT definitely felt like work; exhausting, self-emptying, ungratifying, thankless, and ultimately un-reciprocated. So I think we're on the same page... I just tend to be a little cautious about how people are using the word "work". Hope that makes sense. As I said, when the bad days far outnumber the good ones, it's time to reconsider things carefully. If you don't put any "work" into a relationship -- meeting each others expectations and putting forth the effort to resolve issues, the relationship goes nowhere. People make excuses for staying in unhealthy relationships, I've done it twice, but the second time when I realized I was the one putting forth all the effort and the bad days far outnumbered the good - I knew it was time to walk away. I explained clearly and concisely to my ex what was happening up to the point (as in I had been the whole time it was getting unbearable for me), but he didn't do anything and the relationship fell apart. I think you're really taking away from what goes into a marriage, including your own, by saying that it's taken no work. Yes it has, you just don't see it as such. Ok. I see that you and I are talking about different issues. I believe that switching where you find a date is a tier 1 issue. Very minor overall. Look at the hurdles a couple has to face overall, by years or by milestones. Initial attraction, Dating, Marriage, Kids, Careers... ect. 0-3 months is like Tier 1 3-12 months is like Tier 2 1-3 years is Tier 3 3-7 years is Tier 4 I would be less than 5 percent of couples make it to tier 4 or beyond. Each stage has it's own fairytale expectations and issues. A girl who is very wise and adept at initial attraction and dating issues, may still have crazy expectations of marriage. You see what I'm getting at? Not really, these seems like expectations you've placed on yourself and relationships you engage in. Yes, all relationships have phases, infatuation, the honeymoon period, etc and while people may have unrealistic expectations of what happens regarding a certain time frame, that isn't true of everyone. I don't have a certain number of months I think I need to be engaged by after being in a relationship, or living together, or anything like that. A relationship should be taken day by day, deal with the issues at hand and the rest should come organically. To you choosing who you date may be a "tier one" issue, but if you're continuing finding that your dating women that need to be "thrown back to sea" your issue is at tier one, is it not? You're choosing the wrong women. As a young guy I had some seriously unrealistic ideals as well. Most of those expectations I placed on myself. I expected to make six figures by 25 and when it didn't happen I had a quarter life crisis. You've put time expectations on yourself, it doesn't work that way. Every person, every relationship is different and works within a different time frame. And I do agree, that if you're in a long term relationship, the woman might have expectations that the relationship may eventually lead to marriage but that's far from unreasonable unless you've made it implicitly clear that marriage is something you're not interested in. And naturally only one relationship in your life should go the entire distance. Isn't that the goal?
Els Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Exactly, I'm not saying that breaking up is always wrong, sometimes it's obviously what needs to be done, but when you fail to resolve minor issues and instead just run the other way, what are you getting from the relationship and more importantly how can you expect it to succeed? Or how can you expect any other relationship you're in during the future to succeed? I realized a long time ago who I was looking for, but I honestly thought I'd never find him, since then I've realized that my expectations were realistic and I did find exactly what I'm looking for. Our relationship isn't glamorous, but we don't need it to be. We spend our time doing things that we both enjoy, going for hikes, laughing at immature jokes, driving around and singing to the radio. What more could I ask for? He's patient, kind, understanding and most importantly of all he accepts me for me. That's the most important part. I know for a fact that you aren't going to marry every man you meet, and not every couple that's together is going to get married. I go into relationships knowing that, and that helps me realize when the bad times aren't worth going through, and when they are worth enduring so you can continue to be with the person you're with. When I see on this forum "my girlfriend gained 15lbs I want to leave her" I can't help but laugh. What would that person do when their significant other had a baby and her body never went back to what it was before? Physical attraction is important, yes, but it's not the key to any relationship. The key is an emotional connection and the ability to communicate freely with one another. I'm happy with how I've matured when it comes to relationships and feel very assured that I will end up in a successful relationship in the future, because I understand that above all, a relationship takes a ton of work. All relationships take work, and by work I mean, it takes effort by both people to manage to make a relationship successful. You both have to be willing to sit down and have a discussion with each other about the reality of the situation, how it affects one another and what you can do to change the problematic situation. After that it takes a concerted effort on each person's behalf to exercise patience with the other while they attempt to make improvements. Relationships are no summer breeze or a walk in the park, sometimes you really have to hike up that mountain to reach a place where it's stable, and it's up to the people in the relationship to determine if that relationship is worth the hike. I always tell people, if the good days greatly outnumber the bad days, maybe it's time to move on. If you have a fundamental difference that cannot be resolved, maybeit's time to move on. If there is a serious compatibility issue, again maybe it's time to move on. But people need to realize that successful relationships take time, effort, open communication and patience. Amazing posts. I agree with every bit of what you said except the bolded, which I hope was a typo. :laugh: I think people here believe that it's weak of someone to forgive, and they have a low self esteem if they put up with someone else's flaws. But what about their own flaws, what about when they themselves make mistakes? It would be a ****ty life if we were dumped every single time we make a mistake. I believe forgiving takes more strength than otherwise (up to a predetermined personal limit), and I agree with Vertex that one learns more about relationships from being in them than otherwise. 'I realized a long time ago who I was looking for, but I honestly thought I'd never find him, since then I've realized that my expectations were realistic and I did find exactly what I'm looking for' --> This line also rings very true to me, throughout my teen years and early twenties. I am glad we have both have the chance to experience and find what we were looking for. Edited August 9, 2011 by Elswyth
Disillusioned Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Funny how one woman said, "You could meet the love of your life at an nursing home." lol Funny how many LSers don't want to face that likelihood. Own it, people.
YeahDotDotDot Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 :lmao::lmao: That is by far one of the funniest statements I have heard in my whole life. So, she was actually realistic enough to imagine herself in a nursing home, but unrealistic enough to think she would have love on the mind while she's there. I would love to see Bill Burr do a comedic skit on that clip. Gosh.
sunshinegirl Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) I think you're really taking away from what goes into a marriage, including your own, by saying that it's taken no work. Yes it has, you just don't see it as such. Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say it's "taken no work", I said it doesn't feel like work and that it is qualitatively very different from the hard and painful effort I was putting into past bad relationships. Terminology aside, I agree with you. I had people pooh-poohing my marriage on another thread here because my husband and I have different tolerances for different types of clutter, and people read all kinds of disrespect and selfishness into the situation that really wasn't there. What has since been nicely resolved between H and me had people saying we were never going to make it. I still wouldn't call that particular piece of conflict resolution we had to do work. Every human relationship I have has its moments of disagreement and I don't feel I'm taking away from my marriage by not labeling these sorts of matters as work. Maybe that's also because I'm a conflict resolution practitioner professionally, so I'm used to dealing with disputes and disagreements. That being said, I have no doubt there will be periods in our marriage that WILL feel like work, especially if/when we have children, and I'll have no trouble saying so then! Edited August 9, 2011 by sunshinegirl
musemaj11 Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) It is no secret that women are a lot of more unrealistic than men when it comes to seeking a mate. Every young woman has the fantasy of having a perfect man, a man who is tall, handsome, successful, and loving somehow shows up out of nowhere at her doorstep, courts her and marries her and has a family with forever and ever after. She dreams of having everything served up to her on a silver platter. On the other hand, young men from the beginning know that everything they want in life they have to work for it to achieve it including landing the woman of their dream. They know that if they want a perfect woman, a woman who is beautiful and loving (and nothing else generally), they have to be ready to give all they have in order to get her. They werent brought up believing that all they needed to do is be pretty and princess charming will come to get them in no time. When a man cant get the woman he wants, he knows that its because he is not successful enough or he is not confident enough to pursue her. Edited August 9, 2011 by musemaj11
Els Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) It is no secret that women are a lot of more unrealistic than men when it comes to seeking a mate. Every young woman has the fantasy of having a perfect man, a man who is tall, handsome, successful, and loving somehow shows up out of nowhere at her doorstep, courts her and marries her and has a family with forever and ever after. She dreams of having everything served up to her on a silver platter. On the other hand, young men from the beginning know that everything they want in life they have to work for it to achieve it including landing the woman of their dream. They know that if they want a perfect woman, a woman who is beautiful and loving (and nothing else generally), they have to be ready to give all they have in order to get her. They werent brought up believing that all they needed to do is be pretty and princess charming will come to get them in no time. When a man cant get the woman he wants, he knows that its because he is not successful enough or he is not confident enough to pursue her. Erm, no. The young women who have the fantasy of having a 'perfect mate', are also usually those obsessed with their appearance because it does land them that 'perfect' mate. Or at least their definition of 'perfect'. That does not really qualify as having it 'served up to them on a silver platter' - it takes a lot of work and money to be pretty. On the other hand, there are plenty of fat, sloppy, ugly young men who believe themselves entitled to beautiful women - and who also get it, because they are rich, or confident, or for some other obscure reason. Both men and women perpetrate this duality - it is the men's own fault for wanting a woman beautiful and loving, and nothing else, and also the women's own fault for wanting a man who is successful in their career and nothing else. If you have a problem with this, stop perpetrating it. The less men care about beautiful, the more women will realize that they need to have other achievements in order to land a man. Edited August 9, 2011 by Elswyth
musemaj11 Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Erm, no. The young women who have the fantasy of having a 'perfect mate', are also usually those obsessed with their appearance because it does land them that 'perfect' mate. Or at least their definition of 'perfect'. That does not really qualify as having it 'served up to them on a silver platter' - it takes a lot of work and money to be pretty. On the other hand, there are plenty of fat, sloppy, ugly young men who believe themselves entitled to beautiful women - and who also get it, because they are rich, or confident, or for some other obscure reason. Both men and women perpetrate this duality - it is the men's own fault for wanting a woman beautiful and loving, and nothing else, and also the women's own fault for wanting a man who is successful in their career and nothing else. If you have a problem with this, stop perpetrating it. The less men care about beautiful, the more women will realize that they need to have other achievements in order to land a man. I agree with everything you say. I wasnt really passing judgment on men or women. I was merely suggesting the fact that young men and young women behave and think the way they do due to social conditioning. The reason that young women tend to think that all they need to do is be pretty in order to land a perfect man who will give them an easy shortcut to a good life is because since they were small girls they were bombarded with disney princess movies that didnt prepare them for the reality in real life.
Els Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 It is no secret that women are a lot of more unrealistic than men when it comes to seeking a mate. How is this 'not passing judgement on men or women'?
ConfusedGuy28 Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 This is very simple: 1) Know what you want - don't settle 2) Get with someone who matches what you want, and you match what they want 3) If you both want it to work, no matter the obstacle, make it work That's pretty much it. A lot of times people are afraid to admit who they are, what they want, or know what they want or are too afraid or lazy to get it. The whole "butterflies, rainbows" should happen. You shouldn't have to make a relationship work, especially early on. After you've been together for awhile, things are bound to pop up and need to be addressed - that simply goes without saying. Ex. If you're a man who wants an attractive, sexy, smart, monogamous, funny, etc etc partner - then go after that. Anything else is a waste of time, filler, just for fun, etc. Your purpose in finding a partner is finding what YOU want - not what your friends think is right, not that because she's really into you. People tend to complicate things by playing around. The whole "I don't know what I want" is a BS line. That really means "I just want to have fun and play around for a bit and then I'll go for what I really want"
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