Fast and Furious

[NoIDidn't]

Has anyone else noticed how fast and furious the MM come on to the OW?

 

It seems to immediately go into the "if only I had met you first" conversations. Or the "I see us doing [blank] in five years" conversations.

 

We have talked about why they do this, but we haven't discussed how it makes the OW feel very often (or I've forgotten that we did).

 

I remember getting dressed to go on a date with my now-ex that got engaged. He was in the Half-bath touching himself up and I stood in the doorway waiting for him to finish. My thought process was "hurry up". He says "are you imagining what it will be like when we are married one day waiting for me to get ready?" I tell him honestly, No. I just wanted him to hurry up.

 

He seemed so disappointed and said I messed up our "moment". I wasn't thinking about a future with him beyond the moment we were actually in.

 

Is it a turn on or a turn off that MM do this for those seeing MM?

 

I thought it was odd as it wasn't a commitment to anything. Do others see it as a promise, an actual promise of things to come?

 

Would this happen as quickly with a single guy? Or if the single guy did it, would you run quickly in the other direction as this guy would be considered moving too fast too quickly?

[MissBee]

 

Ahhh...fastforwarding and future faking. That site Baggage Reclaim has articles on this phenomena and it's rather interesting. I have had that experience with the last bf, who was not a MM....that relationship ended up being a mess, he was a mess. I now know that people who fast forward relationships have issues and it is a hallmark of a dubious relationship.

 

I like this excerpt:

 

I have countless emails from readers telling me stories of guys (and women) who moved the initial dating period along at high speed. From declarations of falling in love and ‘I love you’ when they’d barely known them a hot minute, conversations about babies, marriage, moving in, meeting parents and being whirled around like a show pony amongst friends, or hearing about how ‘Everyone is so eager to meet you’, to high intensity liaisons with persistence, great sex, average sex, and multiple phone calls, texts, emails, and letters in a bottle, all of these people have been whizzed at high speed through the early crucial stage of dating.

 

It’s called Fast Forwarding and it’s a technique where someone sweeps you up in a tide of intensity when they’re pursuing you and you’re dating them that you end up missing crucial red flags.

They either disappear when they start to feel panicky about the fact that you will want, need, and expect in line with the great show they have been putting on. Or…they just revert to the ‘real them’, ripping the rug from under your feet and replacing hot with cold and someone who you barely recognise.

 

Fast Forwarders…

- Push for emotional commitment and often sexual intimacy very quickly

 

- Make you feel like the centre of their universe

 

- Distract you from looking too closely at them

 

- Can be emotionally demanding

 

- Refer to the types of plans that people who have been in relationships far longer would discuss – marriage, babies, etc

 

- Some will introduce you to friends, family (including their kids) very quickly

 

- Say stuff like ‘But it feels like we have known each other for X months’ when you object to something and mention how you hardly know each other

- Can be petulant and sulky when they don’t get their own way so you quickly learn to minimise conflict

 

- Even though they appear to respect an asserted boundary, often quickly try to recross it

 

- Are very persistent when you’re not interested in them

 

- Will privately and sometimes openly think you’re The One pretty much immediately

- Will be eager to ‘title the relationship’ and demand commitment even when you hardly know each other

 

- Often have strings of high intensity short dalliances that fizzle out quickly

 

- Overestimate their level of interest

 

- Often veer between deflecting questions about themselves, oversharing, or telling lies and using selective omissionsPeople who engage in Fast Forwarding are Future Fakers, whether they directly do it by talking up a storm about plans or do it indirectly by behaving so intensely and putting so many demands on you (emotional, sexual, wanting to be with you all the time), that they let you believe that the level of intensity you are experiencing is what is on offer.

[NoIDidn't]

Thanks for that quote! I've read that site before, but not that part.

 

You didn't bold the "sulky and demanding" part, but that was my ex. But my version of minimizing the conflict was getting rid of him until he returned in another one of our dances. And we had many until I learned my lesson.

 

My divorced girlfriend keeps meeting these men that want to move quickly and who get really upset when she isn't "on plan" with them. I'm not sure why she keeps meeting these guys, but its disturbing to her. She really wonders what she's communicating subconsciously.

 

I also just met an old friend of my H's and we spoke about how there were some guys we never intended to meet our families, but they were insistent as if the relationship had deeper significance than it did. Those relationships often didn't make it beyond a month, if that.

 

I'm not a hopeless romantic, so I guess someone pushing me for something I'm not even sure if I want is just a huge turn off. I don't see it as a promise of things to come. I see it as a person that is doing as a famous comedian once remarked, "writing a check his a** couldn't cash".

[MissBee]

Thanks for that quote! I've read that site before, but not that part.

You didn't bold the "sulky and demanding" part, but that was my ex. But my version of minimizing the conflict was getting rid of him until he returned in another one of our dances. And we had many until I learned my lesson.

 

My divorced girlfriend keeps meeting these men that want to move quickly and who get really upset when she isn't "on plan" with them. I'm not sure why she keeps meeting these guys, but its disturbing to her. She really wonders what she's communicating subconsciously.

 

I also just met an old friend of my H's and we spoke about how there were some guys we never intended to meet our families, but they were insistent as if the relationship had deeper significance than it did. Those relationships often didn't make it beyond a month, if that.

I'm not a hopeless romantic, so I guess someone pushing me for something I'm not even sure if I want is just a huge turn off. I don't see it as a promise of things to come. I see it as a person that is doing as a famous comedian once remarked, "writing a check his a** couldn't cash".

 

That was an oversight on my part because my ex was the SAME way! He was a manchild.I too had many a back and forth dance with him, and even thought the fact that "we can't let each other go" , meant something more than the fact that it was a mess. He was a mess and obviously me falling for it alerted me to my own messines!

 

I think I've used the check metaphor on here a couple times too, because that's what a lot of dubious relationships are, whether affairs or otherwise...ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS! Particularly if you are seeking validation, the smoke and mirrors trick can be very endearing. It is very easy for someone to put you on a pedestal and pretend to hand you the world and promise you all kinds of stuff and show pony you around (man was the ex good at that aspect)...it's easy and you can live on those fumes for months and years, not realizing that it is immaterial and none of what has been promised has ACTUALLY happened! I see it on LS and experienced it with the ex.

 

Shoot, some will go as far as to give someone a ring... show them divorce papers....but many don't even have to go that far, just do stuff like your guy and make oh-so-flattering-and-promising comments of your "great future", as often times that alone works and nothing else is needed! Many can live off of that smoke and mirrors and smoke up your bum for quite a while before it gets very old and meaningless....

 

Some hug that false-promise check close to their hearts and never even try to cash it, so there are no worries there, and some when they try to cash it and realize there is nothing there, they continue trying to cash it until they get fed up that it keeps bouncing....

[fascinated]

I like the term "fast forwarder" as it does explain what some people do, and not necessarily just married men. It makes me think of young girls who often fall fast and furious for whoever pays attention to them. It gives me a creepy vibe and seems really immature and needy, regardless of who is doing it.

[SoMovinOn]

When I was a MM & dating (in my first M), one of my very first conversations with an OW was always "I am married and I'm going to stay that way. I won't leave her for you. There is nothing permanent to our relationship."

 

... so I don't think all MM do the fast forward thing.

[MissBee]

I like the term "fast forwarder" as it does explain what some people do, and not necessarily just married men. It makes me think of young girls who often fall fast and furious for whoever pays attention to them. It gives me a creepy vibe and seems really immature and needy, regardless of who is doing it.

 

Yepp!

 

I am not partial to affairs...I find them to be just a variation of the various permutation of dubious relationship styles that exist, and all dubious relationships often have similar characteristics.

 

I was an OW but have also engaged in dubious relationships with single men. Many of the problems with affairs are the same problems that come up with non-affair relationships, built upon faulty grounds.

[Quiet Storm]

 

He seemed so disappointed and said I messed up our "moment". I wasn't

thinking about a future with him beyond the moment we were actually in.

 

 

I think for a lot of them, it is like a fantasy. They have this idea in their head of how they want it to be, and OW are supposed to follow along. It seems that they are happy as long as OW are following their script. If OW questions it, or goes against his flow, he says they ruined it. So I can see how some OW may stuff their feelings, not wanting to rock the boat.

[NoIDidn't]

I think I've used the check metaphor on here a couple times too, because that's what a lot of dubious relationships are, whether affairs or otherwise...ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS! Particularly if you are seeking validation, the smoke and mirrors trick can be very endearing. It is very easy for someone to put you on a pedestal and pretend to hand you the world and promise you all kinds of stuff and show pony you around (man was the ex good at that aspect)...it's easy and you can live on those fumes for months and years, not realizing that it is immaterial and none of what has been promised has ACTUALLY happened! I see it on LS and experienced it with the ex.

 

{snip}

 

Some hug that false-promise check close to their hearts and never even try to cash it, so there are no worries there, and some when they try to cash it and realize there is nothing there, they continue trying to cash it until they get fed up that it keeps bouncing....

 

I just realized I misquoted the check line. Its "writing a check with his mouth that his a** can't cash".

 

LOL.

 

Is it always the case that the person trying to fast forward your relationship gets upset when you don't go with them though? I've had one just walk away, but it seemed like he did it with the intent to hurt and try to get me to chase after him and win back his favor.

 

Gotta check that list for manipulative behaviors.

[MissBee]

YES!!! This answers so many questions I once had.

My exH was a fastfowarder and that's one of the reasons I fell for him. I was prepared to totally commit to a man who I thought was demonstrating such commitment to me.

No wonder so many women were prepared to be his OW. He had it down to a fine art.

 

Tell me about it! I felt the same way with my ex. At the time I had no idea that fast forwarding was not a show of immense love, chemistry, passion and "meant-to-be-ness"... it was just a hot and heavy whirlwind lacking sustainability. But where I was emotionally and spiritually lead me to find such behavior appealing (although, truthfully, I did find some of it odd but persisted against my better judgment because it felt good to have someone put me on a pedestal). Now though, since I no longer need such validation, someone doing that would be met with a swift pink slip.

[MissBee]

I just realized I misquoted the check line. Its "writing a check with his mouth that his a** can't cash".

 

LOL.

Is it always the case that the person trying to fast forward your relationship gets upset when you don't go with them though? I've had one just walk away, but it seemed like he did it with the intent to hurt and try to get me to chase after him and win back his favor.

 

Gotta check that list for manipulative behaviors.

 

I went along with it for the most part...but in the latter dances, when it began to get really old, I pushed back. Yes he did get upset because he was trying to push "the reset button" (another brilliant theory of dubious relationships) with the fast forwarding ,and I wouldn't allow it. He would act sooooooo hurt and upset that I didn't believe his lofty proclamations anymore, as if how could I not believe he was going to marry me after he just broke up with his 2nd gf in 4 months and he and I haven't spoken in months!

Edited August 8, 2011 by MissBee

[NoIDidn't]

I like this subject but I hate it too.....if that makes sense and that line about writing checks that the ass can't cash cracked me up.

 

 

Anyway....when I think back to the time of my 1st go around with you know who, there was a ton of that going on. So much said that painted illusions of how it would be when we could really be together and I was such a sucker for the words. Yuck! He set me up......and he played it so well, so then when we started the 2nd round, I kept waiting on what he said would happen, but he always had such good reasons as to why it couldn't right now. Be patient with me he'd say, I've just got to get this mess behind me. (Mainly the crazy stbxw of his) ha ha.....which wasn't a soon to be x at all nor crazy. Have I called him a frickin' pos liar lately?

 

I'm such a wordy person myself that I used to put a lot of weight on what people tell me........sadly I've learned that it's a stupid thing to do. Sometimes I now feel like the last bit of innocence and faith I had in men has been stripped forever away.

 

Oh, no, BB, I understand what you mean completely.

 

I remember when I met my H and we were just friends. He used to laugh at the things that I told him my ex would say to me and look at me like "you believed that?!!" I know all about feeling stupid when the words that I actually did believe or give some credence to turned out to be untrue.

 

I remember the bathroom incident because when we broke up again, I questioned myself as to why I didn't believe him or think that way with him. I wondered if I was actually keeping our relationship from going to the next level. That's how we kept getting back together. It was twisted.

 

He went so far as to tell me one night after he'd cooked dinner for us and was washing the dishes that he'd imagined doing just that while I was "nursing Junior". O.M.G.

 

I guess I've come to the conclusion that I have because I've been there before and because I did love the guy, it made it hard to see it for what it was. I've had guys come on strong before and it be an immediate turn off. But when its someone you actually want a future with, it can be just what you wanted to hear and then some.

[MissBee]

 

Is it always the case that the person trying to fast forward your relationship gets upset when you don't go with them though? I've had one just walk away, but it seemed like he did it with the intent to hurt and try to get me to chase after him and win back his favor.

.

 

Addition:

 

I don't know if it's always the case...well no it isn't, it just depends on how ridiculous that person is and what they're expecting. I have had other guys "play fast forward and future fake", where they said stuff relating to our future, in terms of babies and the lot, but more or less they seemed to be kidding or didn't truly believe I was taking them seriously whereas the ex, some MM and others, who are truly trying to make you believe it, or are so caught up themselves, that it is upsetting to them when you don't believe!

 

If someone is going down fantasy lane and is enjoying the moment or they get off on false promises or pretending the relationship is more than it is or is going somewhere it isn't, and you kind of slap them with reality, it is of course upsetting. Many people react like that....even on LS...

[MissBee]

MissBee, we're obviously twins separated at birth

 

I wasn't looking any further or deeper than what he was showing me. I believed that this was how true love looked. Infact, I believed that until I met my current H.

 

I don't know....... maybe I can't really feel so bad towards the OW in my situation. I fell for his cr*p too.

 

That site is really good MissBee - I've learnt a lot from it and you.

 

Awww, I'm glad you have!

 

I am also very happy for you and your H

 

Turnstone, I swore up and down for almost 2 years post-breakup that what my ex and I experienced was love, and we were twin flames, he just had issues that I needed to help him fix, our immense love was scaring him, and the madness went on ....now, I realize how VERY misguided I was and how intensity is often very present in the midst of dysfunction and it can feel a lot like how you imagine love to feel.

 

Yepps...I don't fault many OW....I too have been there, but my experience with a lot of mess actually comes from my ex who was single and not the taken guy I was with as the OW! That is how I was lead to this part of LS, as my experiences with my ex and the last guy I was involved with, in working through them, I realized that they mimicked so much of the issues I saw in affairs. Which made me realize that ALL dubious relationships have similar qualities. Some people believe that affairs are only "bad" because of the "small detail" that this person is already committed and will even go on to say they are just in love, the person just "so happens" to be married/engaged/taken and will play it off as if otherwise the relationship is perfectly healthy...but most often, that is not the case, and the fact that it is an affair, is in itself a symptom of the larger fact that there are many dubious and unhealthy qualities to the scenario, one or two people may be dealing with issues whether apparent or latent, no matter the intensity and love one feels, shoot, sometimes those issues increase the intensity and "love".

 

 

I have yet to see a healthy affair. Of all my relationships thus far, the one with the taken guy, even today with all my hindsight, I'd describe it as one of the times I felt most understood and cared for and I still have love for him and he too for me. So yes, I do think a form of love is possible in affairs. But it still stands that it was not very healthy, it was not very fair, it was not sustainable and I CAN do better and that is not the ideal for me, and as I have matured into the Queen Bee , I can no longer accept "good enough" or "good except for..." or "good minus..."

Edited August 8, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

MissBee........you are right again.

 

Since I've had time and space to gain clarity, I realize that even if (you know who) hadn't been such a sociopath lair, the relationship would have been doomed anyway.

 

Yepps...same with my ex.

 

With the guy whom I was the OW to, while I have love him, from my more evolved stance, I realize that, take away the aspect of it being a triangle...there would still be problems....in fact, the fact that it was a triangle showed that there were inherent problems in the situation.

 

I truly believe your inner landscape affects the relationships and situations you choose and the things that "happen to" you.

[MissBee]

With regards to the bolded, QB - OMG. *TS finally get it* I don't think I'll ever feel hate towards an OW or about an affair, ever again. Its all just a broken mess...

 

I am so glad something prompted me to start reading this board again after a hiatus. I thought I'd learnt all I needed to about my first marriage and about OW, but I've learnt a lot more since coming back and its been far more useful in helping me to be the person I want to be.

 

It's crazy how we get the lessons we're supposed to get ....I too was lead to this part of the board because of where I am in my growth as when I joined LS in 09, I was solely on the breakup section and had no knowledge of this side until a few months ago when I had an epiphany about something and also found this part of the boards while at it....

[Silly_Girl]

Not at all my experience. More likely the opposite in fact. He was reticent because he wouldn't make promises or talk future. But that seems to be the case for most of these types of posts, that they don't ring true. Quite reassuring I suppose.

[MissBee]

Not at all my experience. More likely the opposite in fact. He was reticent because he wouldn't make promises or talk future. But that seems to be the case for most of these types of posts, that they don't ring true. Quite reassuring I suppose.

 

I think that's good...if he had done that, then perhaps a different ending would have happened as most people who do that sort of thing, affair or not, are in NO position to carry on a relationship.

 

Aside: I was just watching a show on Investigation Discovery channel about people who have been stalked and the psychologist was discussing how people who move really fast in a relationship are using it as a means of control and the other person often sees it as them being really into them and not as the red flag it is. Very true! I see the control element being very true with the ex and can see that dynamic making sense on a MM's part where it would make sense for him to want to have the control.

Edited August 8, 2011 by MissBee

[jj33]

I am always wary when anyone does that - single guys do it too and its the same rubbish behavior.

 

xMM never did that. He never made any promises he couldnt keep

[Silly_Girl]

Aside: I was just watching a show on Investigation Discovery channel about people who have been stalked and the psychologist was discussing how people who move really fast in a relationship are using it as a means of control and the other person often sees it as them being really into them and not as the red flag it is. Very true! I see the control element being very true with the ex and can see that dynamic making sense on a MM's part where it would make sense for him to want to have the control.

 

Its something else I am perversely grateful to my psycho-ex for. This was his MO. And he made himself almost indispensable to me in the process. I fell for it then, but am now very wary. Actually not just in romantic relationships but all those 'I'll be your best friend' type warning signs, in social life or work life, they trigger the same reaction in me.

[MissBee]

Its something else I am perversely grateful to my psycho-ex for. This was his MO. And he made himself almost indispensable to me in the process. I fell for it then, but am now very wary. Actually not just in romantic relationships but all those 'I'll be your best friend' type warning signs, in social life or work life, they trigger the same reaction in me.

 

Yesss! I know one girl like this closely, and several others from afar, needless to say, they are ALL a bit unhinged.

 

I used to always get people who had crushes on me, males and females alike, romantic and "friendship crushes". They were ALL a bit crazy One girl, I had known for about 2 months, we did an activity together, she took to me and I was friendly with her, she came to my birthday party and during the part where people could share well wishes, she made some speech about how I was her bestfriend, the videotape has the priceless look on my face, as I hardly knew this chick! My real bestfriend was there and was shocked as well

 

Back then, I got caught in the trap of feeling like I had to be nice to such people and entertain them. It was my own poor boundaries speaking and it manifested in being "nice" even when it was dangerous to do so. My poor boundaries called in the crazies from far and wide, as well as taken men, those were my two main "fans". In prior times I would ALWAYS attract such people, no matter what, they found me, my friends noticed too and always joked about it that either crazy people or married/taken people always took an interest in me, but once my mentality changed, all of a sudden I no longer seem to meet such people. I now realize that when people come on so strong, romantically or platonically, they are serving their own ends, and it's issues-driven and has NOTHING to do with you being great, so much as your attention or even inattention is an addiction and obsession for them and they use it to feed their own need for something.

Edited August 8, 2011 by MissBee

[NoIDidn't]

Yesss! I know one girl like this closely, and several others from afar, needless to say, they are ALL a bit unhinged.

 

I used to always get people who had crushes on me, males and females alike, romantic and "friendship crushes". They were ALL a bit crazy One girl, I had known for about 2 months, we did an activity together, she took to me and I was friendly with her, she came to my birthday party and during the part where people could share well wishes, she made some speech about how I was her bestfriend, the videotape has the priceless look on my face, as I hardly knew this chick! My real bestfriend was there and was shocked as well

 

Back then, I got caught in the trap of feeling like I had to be nice to such people and entertain them. It was my own poor boundaries speaking and it manifested in being "nice" even when it was dangerous to do so. My poor boundaries called in the crazies from far and wide, as well as taken men, those were my two main "fans". In prior times I would ALWAYS attract such people, no matter what, they found me, my friends noticed too and always joked about it that either crazy people or married/taken people always took an interest in me, but once my mentality changed, all of a sudden I no longer seem to meet such people. I now realize that when people come on so strong, romantically or platonically, they are serving their own ends, and it's issues-driven and has NOTHING to do with you being great, so much as your attention or even inattention is an addiction and obsession for them and they use it to feed their own need for something.

 

I'm so glad this topic has so many applications. And I agree with all that have stated that more than just MM do it. And that even people not interested in you romantically do it as well!

 

I brought it up to talk about the patterns we often see here. But the insights that have been shared will help us all avoid the kinds of people that creep us out by being too friendly, too fast.

 

Speaking of non-romantic fast forwarders, they are the really scary ones, IMO.

[Spark1111]

I'm so glad this topic has so many applications. And I agree with all that have stated that more than just MM do it. And that even people not interested in you romantically do it as well!

 

I brought it up to talk about the patterns we often see here. But the insights that have been shared will help us all avoid the kinds of people that creep us out by being too friendly, too fast.

 

Speaking of non-romantic fast forwarders, they are the really scary ones, IMO.

 

I've learned in therapy to be wary, very wary of people who move tooo fast to become a lover, a friend, a cherished acquaintance, with nothing of substance to base it on!

 

True love, true friendship and valid feelings, build slowly, over time, as people get to know and appreciate each other for who they truly are!

 

ANYONE who tries to move too fast is fullfilling a personal agenda of filling loneliness, reasons of ego (admire you and want your friendship as a "status"), or want your attention and flattery....all of which has nothing to do with YOU and filling your needs!

 

Back away!

 

Thirdly, at the risk of being flamed, men especially, as they are innately the hunter/gatherers, the pursuers, sense vulnerability at 50 paces and zero in.

 

Don't be that woman! The weaker, lonely, confused, vulnerable one that they will zero in on, pursue and exploit for their own personal reasons and gain.

 

Empower yourselves. Gain confidence and draw boundaries in the sand where you plant your flag.

 

That's when the predators move on to the next weakest member of the herd!

 

Don't let it be you....again.

[Bittersweetie]

This is a really interesting thread, I never thought of all this before. Thank you for sharing your experiences!

[Gentlegirl]

From our first meeting he pursued me relentlessly. I was bombarded with texts, phone calls and emails as well as cards in the mail.

 

He also claimed to identify with me. This entailed liking everythin g I like, going everywhere I went ......having the same life goals. He claimed that we were close and exactly the same.

 

With some time and space between him and me, he appears to have been a chameleon. But that shouldn't surprise me should it? Con men are accomplished actors and have to be to achieve their purpose.

 

Did anyonbody else expereience the "identical twin" syndrome?

 

Cheers,

Gentlegirl