David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Why, oh why do you presuppose Owl, or anyone else who is happily reconciled, has to debate you? Or back it up in a way you agree with? This is discussion. Don't start an argument you can't back up. They do not. What you perceive as justification is what you perceive. Exactly, so there should be no reason for your irrelevant questions. Stop t/jing. Sorry this is a public board.
Owl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 If so, one cannot claim that the expectation of pain on the BS part would be a proper deterrent to S going W since they would never understand it (or anticipate it). If there is no way for them to know how much it will hurt, obviously that would NOT be a big part in their decision to cheat. But...they should anticipate that this WILL hurt their spouse to a large degree, even if they probably won't understand the full scope of that pain. It SHOULD be part of their thought processes, and a deterrent to their choice to cheat. If it's not...it's because they're choosing to ignore the damage they're about to do. I may not know how MUCH it'll hurt to jab a screwdriver into someone's hand...but it's a pretty good bet that it will hurt a lot. Whether or not I'll hit a nerve plexus in and double/triple that pain isn't a deciding factor on whether or not I should do it.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 You most certainly did. I didn't say anything about "failure equaling not married"...but you were the one who jumped to that connection. You CREATED a connection in your own mind where one didn't exist, to suit your own purpose. You implied it, then you directly said it in your other response. It's not cynical, nor am I cheating. I'm observing your behavior on this board. Constantly attacking those you don't agree with, twisting around the words and comments to suit your own viewpoint, name-calling and deliberately insulting, and flat out incapable of reasoning through a concept if you don't like it. It's cynical. And I think to myself...could you imagine how horrid it must have been for anyone to live with someone with a mindset like that. Nah, it's horrible living with someone who is willing to accept all abuse thrown at them, then deny that they have a problem. And I suddenly find myself totally unsurprised by the outcome of your situation. Yea, as if that matters. As far as "justifications to stay with a cheater"...there's nothing to justify. YOU may think so, but frankly neither I nor apparently anyone else cares about your opinion of our marriages or relationships...so think what you like...it doesn't change a thing. So if it's not a big deal, why start arguments that you cannot finish? No one asked for you to continually try to twist this whole thing around on me based off of a post in response to this thread. I pointed out what was I expected of my wife after d-day, and what she expected as well. I get that you don't agree with it...acknowledged that in fact. Simple enough, really. Again nobody twisted your words, you just don't like what was said. And I never asked for your approval regarding posting in this thread.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Then what is the point? You would stay with someone forever that you have a grudge against? That is just plain stupid. Point out where I stated that. ............. And what have obligation anything to do with it? No one is obligated to give money to charity too, and you know how that turns out. The statements you made are not technically wrong, they are just irrelevant. To you they are.
Memphis Raines Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 After DDay, what is the best thing your WS could say to you and why? "I am filing for divorce and since I went out and opened my thighs to other men, its only fair that you get custody of the kids".
HalfAlive22 Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I so agree with this, for any reconciliation to work there has to be reflection on the post A relationship and whether there were issues. This is not excusing the A, hell no, it is looking at the relationship, warts and all, without the rose tinted glasses and saying, OK this is what WE need to do to make OUR marriage work. I knew that me and he had problems before the A, the issues he had after Iraq just heaped on top of them and the A was his escape. I know what I could have done to help and I now know that him feeling so lost and less than ensued that the last person who could have helped was me. Reconciliation is just not going to work if it simply consists of ranting and finger pointing and is so far from what many people imagine. it's like holding on a life raft after a flood with both of you kicking like crazy to stay afloat. I just wanted my H to feel that he wasn't all bad, that he had f***** up big time, that we had taken our eye off the ball, that I hurt, I needed to see remorse and I needed to see and feel understanding. Most of all, I wanted him to feel loved and wanted and that we could do this together, and if he chose to leave, that I would help him and not hate him - me hating him was his greatest fear. I hated the A but not the man. Does this go for the serial cheater who screws around with anybody they work with as well,im nit perfect and have my own fauts but really idk?
nyrias Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 But...they should anticipate that this WILL hurt their spouse to a large degree, even if they probably won't understand the full scope of that pain. It SHOULD be part of their thought processes, and a deterrent to their choice to cheat. If it's not...it's because they're choosing to ignore the damage they're about to do. Precisely my point. People ignore or minimize the damage they are about to do because they do NOT understand it. Once again, you say "it SHOULD be part of their though process" and obviously it isn't, otherwise there will be no cheaters on earth. And how would they "anticipate that this WILL hurt their spouse to a large degree". You obviously know because you are/were a BS. I am sure many of them may know that philosophically cheating is morally wrong but i highly doubt many would really anticipate the psychological impact on their BS unless they read LS forums before they decide on a A. People are not that rational. More than likely, they would believe, like in the movies, a soul searching apology plus some insanely romantic gestures will make any betrayal ok but love conquers all and the hero always get the girl no matter what horrible betrayal he has committed. The world is stacked up against sound judgment. You can blame in on the individual. You can blame it on social factor. But to me, blame is pointless. It is all about what can be done about it.
Bugz Bunny Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 It doesn't matter what she feels (guilt,remorse or something else),her feelings wont undo the things that she has already done... For me its simple: you cheat and it's over...
Severely Unamused Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Does this go for the serial cheater who screws around with anybody they work with as well,im nit perfect and have my own fauts but really idk? You are in an abusive relationship halfalive. Ultimately, with whatever flaws that are contained in your personality, you don't deserve to be physically assaulted, or whatever other treatment he deals to you. I don't see your husband changing anytime. Sadly, me telling you to get out now would be akin to me telling an alchoholic to stop drinking now, over the internet. Edited August 8, 2011 by Severely Unamused
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Does this go for the serial cheater who screws around with anybody they work with as well,im nit perfect and have my own fauts but really idk? Dump your husband.
nyrias Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 It doesn't matter what she feels (guilt,remorse or something else),her feelings wont undo the things that she has already done... For me its simple: you cheat and it's over... Good for you. Have you taken that to the test? From what i have read here, there are cases where BS broke down and wanted to reconcile even when they stated "you cheat and it's over" before. I wonder what is the percentage of people who would actually hold to that principle.
Severely Unamused Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Dump your husband. If only it was that easy. She's in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. At the moment, her self-esteem is at such a level, that moving on with her life, would be practically impossible. To stay on topic, I doubt that her WH would be able to truly understand what she is feeling. HalfAlive, I did advocate going to counseling and talking other women that were in abusive relationships. Anyway, this is becoming a T/J so I will stop.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Good for you. Have you taken that to the test? From what i have read here, there are cases where BS broke down and wanted to reconcile even when they stated "you cheat and it's over" before. I wonder what is the percentage of people who would actually hold to that principle. Obviously from his comment he has "taken that to the test." Your comment is moot and unnecessary and while it is somewhat true, there's only a low percentage of BSs who actually stay. So your implication that most BSs are just all talk is false.
Owl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Obviously from his comment he has "taken that to the test." Your comment is moot and unnecessary and while it is somewhat true, there's only a low percentage of BSs who actually stay. So your implication that most BSs are just all talk is false. I'd be interested in the source of your statistic that only a low percentage of BS's stay.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 If only it was that easy. She's in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. At the moment, her self-esteem is at such a level, that moving on with her life, would be practically impossible. It's not impossible. As long as she tries to get help, her saviors will do the rest. To stay on topic, I doubt that her WH would be able to truly understand what she is feeling. No he understands full well, it's just that he, like all cheaters do not care about those feelings.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I'd be interested in the source of your statistic that only a low percentage of BS's stay. And I'd be interested in the source of your statistic that a high percentage of BSs stay, or the chances of "recovery.":laugh:
Severely Unamused Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 It's not impossible. As long as she tries to get help, her saviors will do the rest. The first step is always the hardest. She hasn't taken it yet.
Owl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Ah, but I didn't claim that a high percentage stay. Or that a high percentage recover. In fact, I've cited no statistics at all, outside of my own situation. You however, have. What study did you get your "low percentage" from?
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 The first step is always the hardest. She hasn't taken it yet. Then she obviously needs to, or this situation will only get worse. Can't help someone that don't want to be helped.
Owl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Then she obviously needs to, or this situation will only get worse. Can't help someone that don't want to be helped. This is the truest statement I've seen you post....ever.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Ah, but I didn't claim that a high percentage stay. Or that a high percentage recover. In fact, I've cited no statistics at all, outside of my own situation. You however, have. What study did you get your "low percentage" from? Where did you get your view from?
Owl Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 LOL...thanks for clearly demonstrating my viewpoint, hydra.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 This is the truest statement I've seen you post....ever. Thanks for the hand-out, but I didn't ask for it.
David Cain Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 LOL...thanks for clearly demonstrating my viewpoint, hydra. Your point was never a point in the first place so no demonstration was shown, bird.
Bugz Bunny Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Good for you. Have you taken that to the test? From what i have read here, there are cases where BS broke down and wanted to reconcile even when they stated "you cheat and it's over" before. I wonder what is the percentage of people who would actually hold to that principle. Well I have my self-esteem,and I hold to that principle...in my case I just divorced her... I have already read some random threads on this forum and I know that the percentage of BS that think as I think is low... But just ask yourself (for all BS): Why from so many people in the world someone should stay with a person that hurt them the most...??? Why people love to suffer when they can be happy again...??? I think that so many BS have a low self-esteem but hey its just my personal opinion... P.S. I know some BS that decided to stay and lived in misery for years and then divorced their WS because whenever they saw them it was a reminder of the pain...
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