reddog63 Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Obviously being cheated on must rank up there with one of the most hurtful things that can happen in a relationship. Some of the stories are very sad. The pain is very obvious from certain posters' who regularly post. If someone does admit cheating in a post, the typical responses are somewhat nasty in content. Burn them at the stake type responses.....call them a slut, etc. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from some of these posters..........putting aside the fact that there is no excuse for cheating, etc.......did you learn anything on what you did wrong in the marriage? What needs you must not have been providing? Did you learn anything to do better in the next relationship?
1956peace Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 I'll answer that reddog, I think if we are grown adult and accountable for our own actions that you have to look at life with a responsible out look, when a marriage is in trouble it is usually the fault of both parties, one doesn't fill the needs the other lets it happen so both are at fault and the cause of the marriage breakdown. If you are a responsible adult you will understand what you personally could have done from your end...and that is your part in the marriage, an affair is never the fault of the betrayed spouse that is a decision that only the unfaithful spouse makes for himself/herself. That is for reasons only for themselves and has nothing to do with the marriage, other than it destroys the marriage vow....... Once that has been broken and the trust is gone and the belief in the life you had is gone it makes it difficult to make things better. Whether the unfaithful spouse has remorse or not or regrets what they did, what was in gone and the life you had is over because of that act...... Recovery only works if the unfaithful spouse goes beyond remorse and does everything right and then alone will the betrayed spouse feel safe or at least as safe as they can be........... It is a long and difficult road to endure and having an affair is a cruel way of treating your spouse the one you claimed love for and made promises to.... It is a selfish act that is probably one of the worst things in life to endure..... But we all learn from that about ourselves and about the person we married, and all of those things point to pain and hurt....... If I could have one wish it would be that no one could ever inflict that kind of pain on anyone else ...........there are other solutions to life's problems chose one of them, leave, don't hurt the person that you have spent your life with, said your vows with for your own selfishness.
bentnotbroken Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Obviously being cheated on must rank up there with one of the most hurtful things that can happen in a relationship. Some of the stories are very sad. The pain is very obvious from certain posters' who regularly post. If someone does admit cheating in a post, the typical responses are somewhat nasty in content. Burn them at the stake type responses.....call them a slut, etc. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from some of these posters..........putting aside the fact that there is no excuse for cheating, etc.......did you learn anything on what you did wrong in the marriage? What needs you must not have been providing? Did you learn anything to do better in the next relationship? I did. Stay away from NPD personality people.
thomasb Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 I'll answer that reddog, I think if we are grown adult and accountable for our own actions that you have to look at life with a responsible out look, when a marriage is in trouble it is usually the fault of both parties, one doesn't fill the needs the other lets it happen so both are at fault and the cause of the marriage breakdown. If you are a responsible adult you will understand what you personally could have done from your end...and that is your part in the marriage, an affair is never the fault of the betrayed spouse that is a decision that only the unfaithful spouse makes for himself/herself. That is for reasons only for themselves and has nothing to do with the marriage, other than it destroys the marriage vow....... Once that has been broken and the trust is gone and the belief in the life you had is gone it makes it difficult to make things better. Whether the unfaithful spouse has remorse or not or regrets what they did, what was in gone and the life you had is over because of that act...... Recovery only works if the unfaithful spouse goes beyond remorse and does everything right and then alone will the betrayed spouse feel safe or at least as safe as they can be........... It is a long and difficult road to endure and having an affair is a cruel way of treating your spouse the one you claimed love for and made promises to.... It is a selfish act that is probably one of the worst things in life to endure..... But we all learn from that about ourselves and about the person we married, and all of those things point to pain and hurt....... If I could have one wish it would be that no one could ever inflict that kind of pain on anyone else ...........there are other solutions to life's problems chose one of them, leave, don't hurt the person that you have spent your life with, said your vows with for your own selfishness. I got as far as your response. I have to say that you took the words right out of my mouth... and I was the cheater.
JRoy Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 I'll answer that reddog, That is for reasons only for themselves and has nothing to do with the marriage, other than it destroys the marriage vow....... Once that has been broken and the trust is gone and the belief in the life you had is gone it makes it difficult to make things better...... It is a long and difficult road to endure and having an affair is a cruel way of treating your spouse the one you claimed love for and made promises to.... It is a selfish act that is probably one of the worst things in life to endure..... But we all learn from that about ourselves and about the person we married, and all of those things point to pain and hurt....... I wanted to say that this is an excellent response and in particularly the above quotes (which I will copy and save).
Spark1111 Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Obviously being cheated on must rank up there with one of the most hurtful things that can happen in a relationship. Some of the stories are very sad. The pain is very obvious from certain posters' who regularly post. If someone does admit cheating in a post, the typical responses are somewhat nasty in content. Burn them at the stake type responses.....call them a slut, etc. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from some of these posters..........putting aside the fact that there is no excuse for cheating, etc.......did you learn anything on what you did wrong in the marriage? What needs you must not have been providing? Did you learn anything to do better in the next relationship? I could have been less kind, loving and patient. I could have insisted we work on "us." I tried, but when he refused to go to counseling, I went alone while he had an affair. I should have insisted we fix us as he slid into mid-life crisis depression right before crashing into her. I should have stopped forgiving his every slight, his every attempt at emotional distancing under the guise of hoping the new high-powered position he received, would lighten his mood even though it was stressing him out. But it did supply the perfect cover for his affair. I don't rescue strays anymore, or spend head space hoping and wishing for someone to be a better man; to love and cherish me; to put me first in their heart and life. He is here now, but if he ever leaves again, emotionally or physically, well then, so do I. It IS that simple. I gained a lot of self-respect, and learned I will never accept unacceptable behavior from anyone, even a man I have loved exclusively for the past 30 years. People WILL treat you exactly as you allow them to. That woman? The one who blindly loved and trusted, supported and walked through fire for him at the drop of a hat? I buried her about 4 years ago this past July. His loss. My gain. It is all good.
Severely Unamused Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 I'll answer that reddog, I think if we are grown adult and accountable for our own actions that you have to look at life with a responsible out look, when a marriage is in trouble it is usually the fault of both parties, one doesn't fill the needs the other lets it happen so both are at fault and the cause of the marriage breakdown. If you are a responsible adult you will understand what you personally could have done from your end...and that is your part in the marriage, an affair is never the fault of the betrayed spouse that is a decision that only the unfaithful spouse makes for himself/herself. That is for reasons only for themselves and has nothing to do with the marriage, other than it destroys the marriage vow....... Once that has been broken and the trust is gone and the belief in the life you had is gone it makes it difficult to make things better. Whether the unfaithful spouse has remorse or not or regrets what they did, what was in gone and the life you had is over because of that act...... Recovery only works if the unfaithful spouse goes beyond remorse and does everything right and then alone will the betrayed spouse feel safe or at least as safe as they can be........... It is a long and difficult road to endure and having an affair is a cruel way of treating your spouse the one you claimed love for and made promises to.... It is a selfish act that is probably one of the worst things in life to endure..... But we all learn from that about ourselves and about the person we married, and all of those things point to pain and hurt....... If I could have one wish it would be that no one could ever inflict that kind of pain on anyone else ...........there are other solutions to life's problems chose one of them, leave, don't hurt the person that you have spent your life with, said your vows with for your own selfishness. That is good. A lot of it could be twisted around into more generalised terms too. Of course, the last paragraph ain't going to happen.
Steadfast Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I could have been less kind, loving and patient....I don't rescue strays anymore, or spend head space hoping and wishing for someone to be a better man; to love and cherish me; to put me first in their heart and life. He is here now, but if he ever leaves again, emotionally or physically, well then, so do I. It IS that simple....That woman? The one who blindly loved and trusted, supported and walked through fire for him at the drop of a hat? I buried her about 4 years ago this past July. One of the better posts I've read here. Thanks Spark. So very well said. I must add that while my ex deeply hurt me, that pales when compared to what she's done to herself. And while I was not pleased that someone had the power to actually change who/how I am, I'm not too hard on myself for letting it happen. I trusted her. I thought she loved me like I loved her. In the end, I have realized people's view of love is very different and varies. And she wanted other men. Easy to understand, not so easy to take. I was kind, forgiving and understanding. She took that as manipulation. I was proud of our family and the life we had built. But what I cherished as a blessing, she saw as a prison. A trap. She wanted more...wanted better. I'm not sure exactly how she feels about that now. I have not spoken to her about us or the relationship is a very long time. I love someone else now and have no desire to go back. She looks at old family photos, I hear. I guess the old adage is true; be careful what you want. Oh, and Spark? Don't let one ********* harden your heart. In time, I slowly turned back 'into' me. A little smarter, a little wiser. A lot tougher.
silktricks Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I couldn't take in his problems because I had so many myself. I wanted him to hear me, but couldn't/wouldn't hear him. So I learned that though my problems may seem insurmountable at the time, that if I can put them aside to help him with his, together we can overcome just about anything. (He learned the same thing )
Memphis Raines Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Anyway, I would be curious to hear from some of these posters..........putting aside the fact that there is no excuse for cheating, etc.......did you learn anything on what you did wrong in the marriage? What needs you must not have been providing? Did you learn anything to do better in the next relationship? sorry, but your questions to indicate you think there is an excuse for cheating. nobody is perfect, and no relationship will be. Still there is no excuse for cheating. The questions you asked indicate you think that cheating only occurs when the BS hasn't done everything exactly right in the relationship. Nobody should have to walk on eggshells out of fear of being cheated on. Having said that, sure I learned some things about myself that might help in the coming relationships, but there are certain things people shouldn't have to obsess over to keep a cheater from cheating.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Obviously being cheated on must rank up there with one of the most hurtful things that can happen in a relationship. Some of the stories are very sad. The pain is very obvious from certain posters' who regularly post. If someone does admit cheating in a post, the typical responses are somewhat nasty in content. Burn them at the stake type responses.....call them a slut, etc. Anyway, I would be curious to hear from some of these posters..........putting aside the fact that there is no excuse for cheating, etc.......did you learn anything on what you did wrong in the marriage? What needs you must not have been providing? Did you learn anything to do better in the next relationship? Not every affair is the result of something wrong in a marriage. Sometimes, men (or women) are just selfish and want to have sex outside the relationship, regardless of how good the spouse is. I know that's hard to fathom, but it's true. I venture to say, most affairs are the result of a breakdown in the marriage, but not all. Some people are just too self-centered and only think of their own needs, and think that if the spouse doesn't find out, no harm is done. The narcicistic type, who only thinks of themselves, and think they deserve to have what they want to have, don't care how unfair it is to their spouse. Or they temporarily block out the guilt from their minds in order to get what they want. My sister's husband was like that. They had been married only a year, and he cheated on her despite the fact that she was an awesome, devoted wife. Several years later, it happened again. Some men should never be married (and some women as well). There was nothing my sister could have done differently or did wrong. She was a good wife, good mother, helped him to build up his business to a success, was attractive, nice person. He was just a self-centered person who thought he was entitled to do what he wanted.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I utterly disagree with you. NO affair is the result of something wrong in the marriage. EVERY affair is the result of something wrong in the cheater. I don't mean to take away the responsibility from where it rightfully belongs--the cheating spouse, but it is true that affairs are often the result of breakdowns in the marriage. That is no excuse for an affair--an affair is a horrible thing to do to a spouse--but oftentimes, people seek out an affair when their marriage has been going downhill for some time and is not healthy. That's not always the case, of course, as it was not in my sister's case. From what I've read on the other thread about your history, that was not the case for you either. You had just been married for one year when your X had started to cheat also. I venture to say there are two scenarios that result in cheating--either the marriage is troubled and the spouse feels justified in seeking someone outside the marriage, or the WS is a narcicist and feels he's entitled to do what he wants regardless of how good the marriage is.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 You're contradicting yourself. No marriage, however bad, is reason to cheat. No contradiction. I have said on this board many times that there is no justification for cheating. It is a horrible thing to do to someone, and is inexcusable. But there are two reasons why people cheat--they feel justified because the marriage is not going well, or they feel entitled because they are a self-centered narcicist. Both reasons are no excuse for cheating, but that is why they do it.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Exactly! But thats not what you've been saying. "its true that affairs are often the result of breakdowns in the marriage." "Not every affair is the result of something wrong in a marriage" Which state either implicitly and explicitly that affairs can happen as the result of a marriage being bad. Which is utterly wrong. I gave two reasons why people cheat--they feel justified because the marriage is bad, or they feel entitled because they are selfish. Maybe I should add a third one--they are sex addicts and have poor impulse control. I, personally, don't believe there is any justification for cheating, but those three reasons are why they cheat.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I've quoted what you put. You stated that it is true that affairs are often the result of breakdowns in the marriage. Which is very different from your latest statement of someone feeling justified to cheat because the marriage is bad. I'm glad you saw fit to change your mind, even though you have a problem in admitting it. I didn't change my mind. I stand by what I said. There is no excuse in my mind for cheating, but that is the excuse that WSs give most of the time--that the marriage was bad, so they felt justified in betraying their vows. It often is bad, and that is why they seek a relationship with someone else. That's one of the reasons. Probably the most common reason. I gave you the other two.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 And again, that is NOT what you said until I challenged you. It's the same thing. "Affairs are often the result of marriages that have deteriorated." "People have affairs mainly because their marriage has gone bad." Same thing.
seren Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I find it ironic that two people make a marriage, both are in the same relationship, if the relationship is in trouble how come it is usually just the one who has an A as a solution or escape? That has naff all to do with how the BS has acted in the marriage and everything to do with how the WS chooses to deal with it. The thought that while I was working my a*** off to sort out our financial disaster thanks to global meltdown, try to hold it together at home and deal with all the day to day stresses so that my H didn't have to on top of Iraq while he was in the bathroom sexting the OW all but made my skin crawl. I recognise that we had problems in our marriage and what my contribution to those were, but I also recognise that I more than contributed to holding it all together and having my own problems with health, work and H's crappy behaviour. Hell an A would have been an escape, BUT it would never have crossed my mind because I loved and because I promised (not vows, but a promise) that if it got so bad that I even considered an A I would talk about it. There is no justification for A's, man or woman up and leave. That I have respect for.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I find it ironic that two people make a marriage, both are in the same relationship, if the relationship is in trouble how come it is usually just the one who has an A as a solution or escape? That has naff all to do with how the BS has acted in the marriage and everything to do with how the WS chooses to deal with it. The thought that while I was working my a*** off to sort out our financial disaster thanks to global meltdown, try to hold it together at home and deal with all the day to day stresses so that my H didn't have to on top of Iraq while he was in the bathroom sexting the OW all but made my skin crawl. I recognise that we had problems in our marriage and what my contribution to those were, but I also recognise that I more than contributed to holding it all together and having my own problems with health, work and H's crappy behaviour. Hell an A would have been an escape, BUT it would never have crossed my mind because I loved and because I promised (not vows, but a promise) that if it got so bad that I even considered an A I would talk about it. There is no justification for A's, man or woman up and leave. That I have respect for. Some people have moral values, and some have very shaky moral values or none at all. Some people would never dream of cheating, no matter how bad their situation. Some people think they're justified or entitled to an affair. We all hope that when the chips are down, our spouse will not cross that line. Some of us are not so lucky, unfortunately.
KathyM Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 And both are equally incorrect. People have affairs because they are broken. Its got **** all to do with the state of the marriage. Well, I would agree with you that affairs happen because some people have poor self control/poor moral values. But it is because the marriage is messed up that that acts as a trigger for people that are morally challenged for entering into affairs. The faithful spouses experience those same hardships in the marriage, but they choose not to betray their values and their spouse regardless. Hardships are what separates the men from the boys, or in this case, the weak cheater types from the strong moral spouses. Therefore, marriage troubles + morally challenged spouse = an affair. The troubled marriage acts as the trigger, and the morally challenged spouse acts as the predisposed factor in the equation. Except in the case where the WS feels entitlement regardless of the fact that his marriage or wife is a good one.
Author reddog63 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Posted August 9, 2011 Well, I would agree with you that affairs happen because some people have poor self control/poor moral values. But it is because the marriage is messed up that that acts as a trigger for people that are morally challenged for entering into affairs. The faithful spouses experience those same hardships in the marriage, but they choose not to betray their values and their spouse regardless. Hardships are what separates the men from the boys, or in this case, the weak cheater types from the strong moral spouses. Therefore, marriage troubles + morally challenged spouse = an affair. The troubled marriage acts as the trigger, and the morally challenged spouse acts as the predisposed factor in the equation. Except in the case where the WS feels entitlement regardless of the fact that his marriage or wife is a good one. Hmmm, sounds like a politically correct term.......morally challenged! I guess that makes some of you morally superior. I kinda think that is bullsh_t. Most people fit under a bell shaped curve. So don't all run to get your morally superior awards just yet. You would have to walk in the shoes of all the people who shared stories of how and why they cheated. From a husband who is in a sexless marriage......who has tried for years to change the situation, endless conversations, tries to do housework, take care of kids, cooks, and is really a good dad. Just wants to be loved and connect with wife thru sex. You get the idea. Or a wife of a workaholic.........years of pleading for more time from him, she is lonely and depressed and no matter how much she talks with him, he never realizes how much hurt he is causing. Someone starts showing her a little attention which she is starved for and before you know it she is in an affair. This is not always a guy or woman who just wants to get the sex on to notch their belt. These are people in real pain. And many of you hold to...........if you cheated, then you are morally deficient? That if one of you walked in the above examples' shoes, you know for sure you would never cheat? I know most will respond by saying they know they wouldn't. If I had to put my money down at vegas, I would bet that most would. I said most......not all..........remember the bell shaped curve. You see, everyone wants to be loved and connected. When there is so much miscommunication and other complications and situations like the above happen......anyone in the right circumstances can find themselves in an inappropriate situation. And if you can not understand that concept and want to convince yourself that somehow you are just morally superior.......or that cheaters have some moral deficiency, they you will never learn from your past experiences. I guess that was part of my curiousity about some of the angry and obviously very hurt posters who just focus on bashing the cheater. It seems like they close their mind to even understanding their role in the downfall of the marriage because of the hate they have built up (understandably so). Cheating is wrong and very hurtful and I am not excusing the bad behavior although that is what you may conclude from my post. To me, it is more about human behavior.
David Cain Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 And both are equally incorrect. People have affairs because they are broken. Its got **** all to do with the state of the marriage. Darn right. Your spouse doesn't make you cheat, no matter what was going on in the relationship.
Spark1111 Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Red dog.....I feel morally superior to NO ONE. I am a kid from the poor side of the tracks with an alcoholic dad and a psychotic mom. Youth counselors have studied me for my resourcefulness in overcoming adversity. Maybe I was just created a stronger organism, but I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, rolled up my sleeves, and got busy leading a very succesful life against all odds. I married the only man on the planet I felt safe with and he betrayed me causing the worst pain I have ever experienced. He grew up in a seemingly "good" family with tons of parental support and many opportunities. I envied him and his family. Yet, when the knocks got hard, and we were both vulnerable, he had the affair. No One is claiming moral superiority here. There are many ways to deal with life and what it throws at you. Hell, it has thrown just about all of it in my direction. It is ALWAYS a choice. And IMO, an affair is a very self-destructive choice; a temporary fix, a bandaid, to gain temporary relief from life's stressors. When it ends, or is discovered, the depression is worse, the stressors greater now. Superior? No way? Stronger? Yes, definitely. There are people in sexless marriages; there are people married to workaholics that are lonely. Fifty-percent do not cheat. Why do you think that is? Are they morally superior or morally stronger? Do they have different coping skills? Better skills? We can forgive, or not, the fifty percent who cheat. But I believe the better question is: Why don't the other 50%. presumably in the same loveless marriages, cheat also?
analystfromhell Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I'd assume the people who don't cheat are (ungenerously) too ugly spritually or physically to find someone else, are not in a position to cheat or (generously) place too much value on the partnership. It seems addictive, given what little I know about the topic and once someone feels they've gotten away with it, they'll continue to do it for the thrill and the attention. Perhaps they feel that unlike a real relationship, an affair improves their sense of self-worth and adds excitement to their life. I don't put it in the morals bucket per se as that implies they want to but don't. I'd say those who don't want to recognize it is not a legitimate way out of their circumstances.
Severely Unamused Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I'd say those who don't want to recognize it is not a legitimate way out of their circumstances. That's my personal view. I could say that there are WSs who are in dead-end relationships. But even while they are cheating...they are still in dead-end relationships. Hell, if a WS needs an exit affair to get out of the unhealthy relationship, I think that they need to ask themselves, why is that? And if there are WSs who believed that cheating was wrong on a moral level, before doing the deed, wouldn't breaking their own moral code make them morally deficient? I'm not a very moral person either, so it's not morality talk on my end. I'm kind of a jerk. Edited August 10, 2011 by Severely Unamused
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