A Very Frustrating Situation

[bambiraptor9]

I love my family very much and I hate posting anything here about them but I have to vent and I would like advice on how to cope.

 

First off, before I start, I am an adult living with my family because I cannot afford to live on my own. I am basically a starving student pursuing my life's dream of paleontology. So please, no one give me the reply of "just move out already." It's a cop out and I need some honest advice.

 

My first problem lies with my sister. I love her to pieces, I always have. When we were young, she wanted to be close but I pushed her away, and was jealous of her. She always got plenty of admiration and attention from my parents, especially from my dad, and with me being the first child and a daddy's girl I was upset she had ousted me from that role. Eventually though I got over it and moved on. It seems she has not--she brought up a painful incident I will never forget a few nights ago, in which we were kids on the playground.

 

I was in 6th grade, she in 3rd or 4th. She was hanging out with her friends a lot more than me, and made fun of me a lot. She basically called me mentally challenged and laughed at me with her friend, then ran off as if nothing had happened. Of course I told my parents and my dad was infuriated--to this day she has not forgiven me for the punishment she received from him.

 

Since the time we were kids until now, as adults well into our twenties, my sister has not changed. I know she never will change. She basically ignores me entirely. It's like I don't exist. When we talk, she doesn't make eye contact with me. She takes advantage of my intelligence and uses it against me by making fun of me when she can. She also has recently taken advantage of my steadier income, albeit a small one.

 

She guilts me into giving her money because she can't handle keeping her own bank account. I told her this is a problem she alone needs to deal with and she ignored my warnings time and time again. She throws a bitch fit if I don't comply, and that involves yelling and threats of physical violence (balling up her fists), much like my dad. I am tired of giving her my hard earned money so she can blow it on cigarettes, booze and Lord knows what else she wants to spend the money on. I told her to go to our parents but she is afraid of my father's reaction and his likely retaliation is to either make me pay her or she gets thrown out of the house.

 

What makes things even more difficult is the fact that my sister just ended her nearly two year relationship with her bf, that her friends have all picked up and left, and she is basically alone. Not only does this wound her, it wounds me too. She has not been taking care of herself--she is dangerously thin in my eyes, and needs psychotherapy to help her cope with her losses. I worry a lot about her because I love her dearly, but she doesn't acknowledge me at all and even after I bought her dinner, paid her gas and rental car costs tonight, didn't once say thank you.

 

She is a spoiled princess who works very few hours, complains about working, and then expects everyone--especially my dad--to grovel at her feet and do her every whim, or else she will throw a tantrum. She did just that when her bf left her--she destroyed lovely plates and a gorgeous porcelain seahorse she made out of rage, not caring who was hurt, and then putting off cleaning her mess up until I reminded her to, which she scorned bitterly. Unfortunately my dad and my brother are her enablers.

 

My sister has a very close bond with my little brother, and even though my brother and I are close too, I am certain he would never stand up to her fully. My dad and my sister are very close--so much so that my sister is almost a female version of my dad.

 

My dad is a loving person and cares a lot about his family but there are vicious things he has done to us that contradict this nature. When he blows up, watch out! He will make you feel as big as a pea. No, make that a microorganism. He will first taunt you, like a sophomore in high school--basically be a bully on the playground. Then he will yell at you for no reason at all--it has to be his way or the highway. Finally he will threaten with horrible ultimatums, become physically violent, and make your life a living hell until you comply with his every demand. It is a terrible cycle and I cannot escape it until I leave him, but even then I worry he will try to control me across the country or even around the world. His controlling nature and self involved attitude (what about me? I am doing this all by myself...etc) lead me to suspect he is an N.

 

My mother says she stays married to my dad for his good qualities. :/

 

My mom is the most supportive, responsible and truly loving person in my family. I have learned that now, and I love her so very much. I hope to maintain a wonderful bond with her for many years. She has never once made me feel insignificant--sure she has yelled, but it is for good reason. She makes me feel myself, at peace. She is the breadwinner of the family, and supports us entirely on a single income--I help her out when I can, which is why it is so frustrating when my sister plays the 'I need help' card when my sister doesn't deserve it.

 

My fear is that if I do stand up to my sister and call her out on her behavior, she will tattle on me to my dad and he will make me do as she wishes. Either that or I will lose my family and be forced to live on my own. I would much rather part ways on a more peaceful level, but the stress of living with my entire family has driven me up a wall.

 

I feel guilty about pushing my sister away and I just want her back. But I guess she is never going to be my little sister I used to love anymore...she is now a shell of who she once was...it makes me so sad to see her degenerate from such a bright and happy kid into a sad, anxious, nasty, self absorbed individual.

 

I would like to know what you think. Does my sister have some sort of NPD type condition, as I suspect? How can I cope with her rages as well as my dad's too? Any advice is appreciated.

[DaisyLeigh]

If you don't like it, move out. You can still go to school while being an independent adult. It can be done.

 

It is not a cop out to be and act grown up.

 

The reason I say this, even though it is not what you want to hear, is because it is not your home and if they are not willing to meet you halfway and treat you decently, there is not a lot you can do about it. You cannot make anyone behave a certain way, especially when you live in their home.

 

Good luck.

[spiderowl]

It sounds like you are in a very difficult position. Your mum sounds like she is a saint, coping with your sister and your dad and bringing in the income. I feel for her too. Have you talked with your mum about this? What is her view on the whole thing, on dealing with your sister's demands for money?

 

Your dad sounds like a difficult character, as does your sister. It sounds like your sister has her own problems and she is obviously not doing well following the break up. It sounds like she needs support but if you and she are not willing to support each other, then there's nothing you can do. I don't see why you should be the one to do all the giving. Is your sister really that demanding as regards money? What if you got on well with her and she asked for the same amount of money? Would you be equally unwilling to let her have it? In other words, is your resentment over the money mainly because you don't like her? I am not judging you for that - I wouldn't want to lend money to someone who treated me unkindly and disrespectfully.

 

If you can't get your mum to support you in standing up to your sister, then you may have to just stand up to her yourself and take the flak from your father. It might be an idea to have a 'plan' for your money, such that they'd feel guilty asking for it. For example, if you were saving for a deposit for a house or for funding for a course, then they would feel bad asking you to give it to your sister instead.

 

You could try and get along with your sister, try to build bridges. I don't know if this is possible or not as it sounds from your posting as if you treat her well and she basically ignores you and treats you badly. If so, that's a non-starter.

 

Finally, consider looking into other options, like youth hostels and young men's organisations for places you could stay until you've finished your studies. I know this is the last thing you'd want to consider at the moment, but if you did look into it and found there was a way, then just having that to fall back on might strengthen your hand within the family. It might give you the confidence to deal with this better.

 

I wish you good luck. I think you are in a tough situation and dealing with some difficult people.

[bambiraptor9]

If you don't like it, move out. You can still go to school while being an independent adult. It can be done.

 

It is not a cop out to be and act grown up.

 

The reason I say this, even though it is not what you want to hear, is because it is not your home and if they are not willing to meet you halfway and treat you decently, there is not a lot you can do about it. You cannot make anyone behave a certain way, especially when you live in their home.

 

Good luck.

Thanks for your input. I have looked into small apartments in my area and I am trying to save up for a place of my own; I want to be financially secure prior to leaving. But my issue is with coping. I know I can leave, whether my family likes it or not, but I do not want to be rash in doing so and while I am finishing my education I would like to stay for at least the next few months as I save up.

[bambiraptor9]

It sounds like you are in a very difficult position. Your mum sounds like she is a saint, coping with your sister and your dad and bringing in the income. I feel for her too. Have you talked with your mum about this? What is her view on the whole thing, on dealing with your sister's demands for money?

 

Your dad sounds like a difficult character, as does your sister. It sounds like your sister has her own problems and she is obviously not doing well following the break up. It sounds like she needs support but if you and she are not willing to support each other, then there's nothing you can do. I don't see why you should be the one to do all the giving. Is your sister really that demanding as regards money? What if you got on well with her and she asked for the same amount of money? Would you be equally unwilling to let her have it? In other words, is your resentment over the money mainly because you don't like her? I am not judging you for that - I wouldn't want to lend money to someone who treated me unkindly and disrespectfully.

 

If you can't get your mum to support you in standing up to your sister, then you may have to just stand up to her yourself and take the flak from your father. It might be an idea to have a 'plan' for your money, such that they'd feel guilty asking for it. For example, if you were saving for a deposit for a house or for funding for a course, then they would feel bad asking you to give it to your sister instead.

 

You could try and get along with your sister, try to build bridges. I don't know if this is possible or not as it sounds from your posting as if you treat her well and she basically ignores you and treats you badly. If so, that's a non-starter.

 

Finally, consider looking into other options, like youth hostels and young men's organisations for places you could stay until you've finished your studies. I know this is the last thing you'd want to consider at the moment, but if you did look into it and found there was a way, then just having that to fall back on might strengthen your hand within the family. It might give you the confidence to deal with this better.

 

I wish you good luck. I think you are in a tough situation and dealing with some difficult people.

Thank you so much for being understanding. For the record I am a woman, and I am taken by a wonderful man.

 

To answer your questions:

I have discussed my sister's issues with money with my mom before; my mom was shocked to see her so greedy and nasty toward her when she went to the bank to deposit the money my mom gave her. I want to tell my mom about recent events but my mom has a bad habit of relaying my conversations to my sister or my dad. I can only do so when my sister is away for the day.

 

If my sister treated me well then there would be no issue--I would lend her money, as long as she was honest as to what she was going to do with it, and returned the amount when she said she would rather than months later. But my sister does not treat me well--she is rude and nasty to me most of the time and pretty much ignores me until she needs money or help with homework or help filling out job applications, etc. She acts helpless so I can supply her with attention.

 

I have told my parents my limited income is dedicated to my courses (which are ridiculously high-tuition is about $3500 per semester not including books, lab fees, field trip money etc). My dad sees it as an excuse and I should support my sister no matter what, despite her diminishing returns. My brother, who has no job and is younger than my sister, gets along just fine without a job--he recycles and gets money from that, he helps my neighbors and gets paid, he saves when he can and spends only as much as he needs to. He refuses money from me and wants to be financially independent despite his lack of income. My sister has a job and she is foolhardy with her funds, then expects me to pay up when she demands it. I don't get it...:/

 

I am trying to save up for an apartment close to my school but again it is tough when my family depends on me to pull through for them when they need help the most, and when tuition spikes every semester...

 

Thanks again for being understanding.

[spiderowl]

Can you say no to your sister and stand up to your father? I know it's hard but sometimes people need lines to be drawn. Once they know for sure there is a line, they have to adjust and cope within the constraints. If you always hand over the money in the end, your sister will push until you do.

 

Could you suggest a budget for your sister? Taking her income into consideration, lay it down on paper so that it's obvious where the money is going (what you know about, that is). Explain you can't lend money because of fees and your sister is spending above her means for no good reason.

 

I expect you'll get a lot of flak and anger. Would you be able to handle this or is it likely to turn really nasty from your father and sister's point of view? It seems to me, the two of them are holding you and your mother to ransom. You two really do need to get together to discuss this privately and agree to stick together with a resolve to stop them abusing you both. Someone, somewhere in this family is colluding in allowing the less responsible members to get away with this and it does sound like your mum is the weak link here if she tells them what you've said. You need to ask her to keep it to herself and help you to deal with it. If the responsible ones stuck together, you would be a formidable force. Your sister would probably thank you later on for imposing some form and boundaries in her life, as it sounds like she's a bit out of control at the moment.

 

You might consider seeing a student counsellor. If you've never been to counselling before, it might seem a bit odd at first if they are person-centred counsellors, but it can make a huge difference as to how you feel and handle things. It would simply help you to have this external emotional support as you are obviously under pressure. Sometimes a family's internal dynamics are such that the only sane one in the family ends up battling with the rest. If possible, remove yourself from this painful situation. I know that's difficult, but of course you can keep an eye out for other options.

 

I don't know what course you are doing but your uni/college/school might have a welfare fund that could help you find somewhere to rent. It is worth talking to a counsellor about other options - they should know how to get further information on this kind of thing although they won't have control over funds. They may be able to recommend you for help, once they know the situation. At least you'll know if there is an alternative. Best of luck!

Edited August 7, 2011 by spiderowl

[ilikesunita]

Move out, you're a big woman, so it's to be expected.

[gameseepaktd]

very nice - thanks ?????? ??????? | ?????? ???? | ?????? ????

[ilikesunita]

I would also say:

 

- Your dad is who he is. If he's aggressive, so what? men are as such, it's how we think/are built.

 

- Your sister is who she is. Let her fall down, since her conception of life is seemingly a bit screwed, it's not your place to correct it. Who are you to regulate anybody? She changed on her own accord.

 

Just move out, and don't even get correspond with them. It doesn't even seem that these people respect you.

[FrostFire]

While I mostly do agree to pretty much everything stated here the one thing I think people are having a hard time understanding is the "Just Move Out." The OP clearly has stated that under her current financial state she cannot "Just Move Out." So why keep on beating that one across as that is going to do no good for her in this case. Yes, we know it's the end-all solution to her problems, but it's not helping her since she clearly has stated it's a cop-out. We're not helping her by saying it or beating it around over and over.

 

So let's get some constructive feed back that does not involve "Just Move Out." I'm sure she would LOVE to move out but I know living in Southern California independently is not cheap by any means!! Couple that with a small income, part-time crap mediocre paying jobs that couldn't support anything, while going to college full-time it's just not going to happen. Oh, and if people think it is easy to find a good paying job here that is willing to work with your hours because you go to school full-time then they haven't been to SoCal.

 

Unfortunately, I think she's in a very difficult situation that no one wishes they were in and wants out so badly! I too am curious of the feedback here as I find myself in a similar situation. I'll be watching this thread for sure.

[ilikesunita]

I'm just stating my opinion.

[bambiraptor9]

Thank you, spiderowl--your advice has been the most helpful. I found a counselor on my campus and I am going to make visits to speak with them asap.

 

Thank you, also, Frost Fire. More advice would be wonderful also, but I have determined via research that yes, my sister shows narcissistic tendencies and knowing that I am less affected by her snarkiness. Also your love and support is a boon to me and I am grateful to have met such a lovely man as yourself.

As for you, ilikesunita...

First of all, I would love to move out. I am broke. I cannot move out without money. I want to support myself fully before I do so, as my parents cannot (and imo should not) support me while I am on my own, and I do not want any more student loans as I am well over my head in debt with those. So I will finish my education (my MS, mind! in case you were wondering) first and then move out, which will be in less than five years.

 

Second, there is a distinct difference between aggressive men and abusive men. It's clear you do not see that distinction and are basically telling me to suck it up cause all men (most likely yourself included) are that way. Do me a huge favor before you flame me--research aggressive/assertive and abusive and reread my post like an educated individual, then come to me and give me advice on how to cope with said people. spiderowl did so beautifully and did not judge. It's sad you assume that's the way it is--because it isn't. There is no excuse for verbal, emotional, physical and psychological abuse. Period. NEVER confuse abuse with aggression. Aggression comes and goes. Abuse never ends. Look it up, I'll wait.

 

Those of you who wish to give advice on how to cope, please do so. Otherwise, one more comment of 'move out already' and I will end this thread like the only mature adult on this thread.

[ilikesunita]

lol... just my opinion. don't get in a fret.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you, spiderowl--your advice has been the most helpful. I found a counselor on my campus and I am going to make visits to speak with them asap.

 

Thank you, also, Frost Fire. More advice would be wonderful also, but I have determined via research that yes, my sister shows narcissistic tendencies and knowing that I am less affected by her snarkiness. Also your love and support is a boon to me and I am grateful to have met such a lovely man as yourself.

As for you, ilikesunita...

First of all, I would love to move out. I am broke. I cannot move out without money. I want to support myself fully before I do so, as my parents cannot (and imo should not) support me while I am on my own, and I do not want any more student loans as I am well over my head in debt with those. So I will finish my education (my MS, mind! in case you were wondering) first and then move out, which will be in less than five years.

 

Second, there is a distinct difference between aggressive men and abusive men. It's clear you do not see that distinction and are basically telling me to suck it up cause all men (most likely yourself included) are that way. Do me a huge favor before you flame me--research aggressive/assertive and abusive and reread my post like an educated individual, then come to me and give me advice on how to cope with said people. spiderowl did so beautifully and did not judge. It's sad you assume that's the way it is--because it isn't. There is no excuse for verbal, emotional, physical and psychological abuse. Period. NEVER confuse abuse with aggression. Aggression comes and goes. Abuse never ends. Look it up, I'll wait.

 

Those of you who wish to give advice on how to cope, please do so. Otherwise, one more comment of 'move out already' and I will end this thread like the only mature adult on this thread.

 

 

Counseling to help you learn to deal with such strong personalities in the most constructive healthy way for you is a great idea. College campuses tend to have very qualified counselors for their students as they know they will be dealing with a plenty of personalities and family of origin issues.

 

And the ignore button is a good feature to use if you have issues with certain posters.

[DaisyLeigh]

Thank you, spiderowl--your advice has been the most helpful. I found a counselor on my campus and I am going to make visits to speak with them asap.

 

Thank you, also, Frost Fire. More advice would be wonderful also, but I have determined via research that yes, my sister shows narcissistic tendencies and knowing that I am less affected by her snarkiness. Also your love and support is a boon to me and I am grateful to have met such a lovely man as yourself.

As for you, ilikesunita...

First of all, I would love to move out. I am broke. I cannot move out without money. I want to support myself fully before I do so, as my parents cannot (and imo should not) support me while I am on my own, and I do not want any more student loans as I am well over my head in debt with those. So I will finish my education (my MS, mind! in case you were wondering) first and then move out, which will be in less than five years.

 

Second, there is a distinct difference between aggressive men and abusive men. It's clear you do not see that distinction and are basically telling me to suck it up cause all men (most likely yourself included) are that way. Do me a huge favor before you flame me--research aggressive/assertive and abusive and reread my post like an educated individual, then come to me and give me advice on how to cope with said people. spiderowl did so beautifully and did not judge. It's sad you assume that's the way it is--because it isn't. There is no excuse for verbal, emotional, physical and psychological abuse. Period. NEVER confuse abuse with aggression. Aggression comes and goes. Abuse never ends. Look it up, I'll wait.

 

Those of you who wish to give advice on how to cope, please do so. Otherwise, one more comment of 'move out already' and I will end this thread like the only mature adult on this thread.

 

 

I fail to understand what you mean by this remark. Of course, I have lived on my own and have paid my own way since I was 18, and that has been over 25 years ago. What do I know? I was only giving you facts. And I was quite polite about it as well.

 

Good luck to you. I hope that you get what you want. And I mean that sincerely, not in a snarky manner.

[bambiraptor9]

I did not mean to offend you; I was mad at ilikesunita for his remark about how all men are a certain way.

 

I am grateful for your advice also; but at the start of this thread I did mention I wanted advice in how to cope with this situation. Perhaps this needs to be moved to the coping section instead.

[stacystalon]

It is a troubling situation for all involved. Mental illness affects millions of people. When a loved one has a mental illness it is not just the individual with the mental illness who suffers but friends and family as well. Hopefully, your friend and her family will receive the proper help. I wish you the best. Please take care.

[DaisyLeigh]

You didn't offend me. It would take a lot more than what you said to offend me. At any rate, good luck with your problem.