Bugz Bunny Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Hi everyone I am new on this forum but I have experience with this cheating and separation/divorce...I have read some random threads and I have some questions that I cant answer by myself... 5 years ago I dicovered my W of 3 years cheating...duration of the affair was 1 month when I discovered it and I immediately separated and filed for D the next day...I simply D her and never looked back and yes we have a child together that is now 8 years old but that wasn't a reason for me to stay because she broke the vows and she destroyed our child and the opportunity to grow up in a happy family and not me... we have the child 50/50 time... The thing that I don't understand is: her AP was single and I immediately D her and gave her the opportunity to live and have a life with OM because our life together was over when she decided to cheat...I don't understand why the two of them broke up when I discovered the affair and never ever tried to have a life together and why till this day (that was 5 years ago) she never had a relationship with another man...I don't understand this...she cheated because she wanted another man and I gave her the freedom to live her life and be happy...but NO,when I discovered the A and filed for D she was obsessed with me and begged me to come back and to work this all out but my answer was negative of course... And even now 5 years later she cant look me in the eyes when I come to pick up/drop off our child...What was the point of cheating when you don't live with AP when given the opportunity...Oh and yes even now she is trying to reconcile with me (what a silly woman she is )... I on the other side am happy and have a nice and beautifull GF (together 3 years) and my son loves her too,and my exW hates her of course... After reading random threads on infidelity I don't understand how BS can stay with WS after all that happened...I read a thread where the W had a LTA (7-8 years) and H decided to work things out and on the other thread W had an A and the result is two children with OM and H decided to stay and work things out and W said that she hates the OM and wants him out of their life but she hated him (AP) so much that she gave birth to two of his children... And after I read this I was shocked and I cant believe that after all this **** BS decide to stay with WS...How can they stay with WS after this ****...??? Where is the self-esteem people...??? My questions are bolded...
Severely Unamused Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) There's a lot of complex and not so complex reasons. For some, it is low self-esteem like you suggested. Some don't want to start over and rebuild. For others, it is more pragmatic reasons (money, house, child custody ect.). Some BSs are more forgiving than others about infidelity. Hell, sometimes their forgiveness pays off in the long run. Sometimes it doesn't. Sad that your ex-wife hasn't moved on. Presumably, the OM was just a fling, which is why her attention is on you and not him. Edited August 5, 2011 by Severely Unamused
Spark1111 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I have a very healthy self-esteem and a secure ego. I realized pretty quickly, as did our young adult children, that his affair had very little to do with us. I had always loved the man as a husband, friend and father. His remorse was great, he and we enacted changes, and I could not be happier TODAY, that I stayed to witness and participate in it all. I too gave him carte blanche to be with his AP, exposed the affair to family and friends, and prepared for divorce. No one was more stunned than I when it appeared to be the last thing he wanted. Today, he almost despises his xAP as she was the only person on the planet who would give him permission to self-destruct all he held dear. He also despises himself and we work on that together. Look, it was the most painful and ultimately the most rewarding journey I and he have undertaken. It took three years for my emotions to align with my initial blink: The cheating had to do with issues within himself. But I understand those who cannot reconcile because they realize they will never be able to forgive. As that is how you felt, I support your action to divorce. If you cannot overcome resentment, which is a very healthy ego response, than reconciliation would not have worked for you. And if you happy with your choices than I am happy for you. Your wife, like my H, probably deeply regrets her choices. When an affair is exposed and consequeces like divorce rain down on your head, the "fog" starts to lift and many an affair goes psssssst! It is often not about love, it is about how the lover makes you feel. She is probably still grieving the loss of her marriage and family and love for you. Is she in IC? She should be so she can heal and be a better parent to your son. Encourage that. Eventually, she will move on emotionally as you have and find a new man who loves her for who she is, warts and all.
Spark1111 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Bugz, she didn't want the other man. She wanted the way the OM made her feel. He was supplying an unmet need of her's that she, most likely, never expressed clearly that she needed from you: attention, validation, compliments, etc. Affairs are a fantasy: I will be whoever you need me to be, you be whoever I need you to be. When the bubble is burst, usually by discovery, it is often NOT a person you would entertain a REAL relationship with. Less than five out of 100 APs wind up together after DDAY. These are called exit affairs, and are extremely rare. Start reading on the web. There is a wealth of information. I think five years later, there is a lot you could have learned by now.
seren Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I think my thoughts were more in line with, How could he do that to us, to our relationship and of course how could he want someone else when he knew how much of a mind F*** it would do to me? Like Spark has so eloquently put it, I realised us and we had no place in the A, it was all he and she. Which had little to nothing to so with me. I didn't realise that A's, being selfish by their nature, are quite insular relationships and self gratification is very different from our relationship where decisions affecting us are discussed - of course during and before the A, we had been travelling in the same direction in life, just that he had taken a detour, so to speak. D Day or R Day which is the day of reckoning, or reconciliation or just run for the hills sees the journey stop from it's previous path and the BS and WS either decide to take the road ahead together or jump in their separate cars and go off in different directions - apologies for the appalling analogy, I need coffee. I stayed not because of children (ours is grown up) money (I made far more) housing (could afford my own) or a lack of self esteem (I am fully aware of my worth), but love, love for the man I knew he was, the man he had been for 23 odd years, and the remorse, regret and a thousand and one other things I saw in his face when he confessed to an 8 month A. Time together had little to do with it, other than the fact that I had loved him for all that time, and he me. Understanding the A helped, didn't excuse it at all, but because I understood the man, I understood the A and what had contributed to him choosing to fix what was broken in him by looking elsewhere. I don't and can never agree with or condone A's, the solution is so simple really - leave, hard work maybe, but far more honest. Almost 4 years on from D or R Day and we have rebuilt out relationship, it is very different from what it had become and yes it is better, in some ways. I feel deep regret that he/we didn't sort us out and that we, our marriage has an A as part of its history, but it is what it is. Thing is, during the A, I never left our marriage, still loved him would still love him had we split up. But we are all very different and we all have different lines drawn in the sand about what we can deal with. BUT I will add, there are no second chances. However, rather long windedly, I stayed because I loved and love and I stay because we have worked at it.
jnj express Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 There are many reasons for straying, and there are many reasons for staying---everyone's situation is different---in each and every situation you read, eventually the betrayed and the betrayer, have to decide their futures, and its based on what they want/need out of life----everyone gives advice, but ultimately only the person in the situation lives in those shoes, and tho we can all advise, it is ultimately up to the spouses involved, as to what course they will take In your situation who knows why your wife cheated, only she---but one thing you and her both DO know---she will live to regret her very bad choices, the REST OF HER LIFE---for there will never be for her, anyone who could/will replace you You, as many who we never read about, cuz they don't come on forums, had zero tolerance, went right to D., and never looked back----we never read their stories, cuz they know immediately what they want, and they have no need for advice---those who post on the forums, are going thru he*l, and want help in every possible way they can get it----so hence they come here, go to counseling, talk to others, suck it up and try to ride thru it by themselves-- --infidelity is dealt with in many ways----the really sad thing is it is increasing, and with this new generation of kids coming up, who have had sex by the time they are 15, and many of them with multiple partners, therefore treating the physical need for sex as if it was the same as a physical need to eat, because of this new generations attitude on sex, IMHO, I think basic mge., as we now know it is doomed---Just my opinion
silktricks Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Yours are questions asked both by OW/OM who get "thrown under the bus" upon D-Day and by BS who have been unable/unwilling to even consider reconciliation. I have zero issue with BS who don't consider reconciliation, as I figure they know themselves best. If they know they cannot forgive, then they shouldn't waste either their or their spouse's time in a futile and painful endeavor. It's better to move on with their life. as for your questions: I don't understand why the two of them broke up when I discovered the affair and never ever tried to have a life together and why till this day (that was 5 years ago) she never had a relationship with another man...I don't understand this She wasn't interested in the other man for a relationship to replace the one she had with you. She had the relationship to enhance her own vision of herself. She has probably continued to attempt to reconcile with you, as if you would forgive her, then she could forgive herself (and feel better). And difficult as this is to believe, she probably loves you, at least at some level. I don't understand how BS can stay with WS after all that happened.. How can they stay with WS after this ****...??? Where is the self-esteem people...??? There are undoubtedly many reason why people stay. Lack of self-esteem is probably the reason on occasion. However, no one has ever accused me of having a lack of self-esteem and I chose to reconcile. I made the choice out of love - me for him, and hard as it seems to be for some people to realize, also him for me. His sorrow and contrition about his actions were evident. He showed me daily the depth of his love for me. It took a tremendous amount of work to rebuild our marriage, and I'm very thankful that we made the choice to do that work. We are both very happy. Both Seren and Spark probably said it better, but a marriage is what you make it. My husband and I had neglected ours. We don't anymore. It's a crying shame that my husband took the path he did, but he managed to retrace his steps, rebuild the bridge and find his way home.
Summer Breeze Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I'm going to give you a bit different answer. I was a BS in my mid 20s and I was like you-it was over when it was confirmed. He was a good man and I knew there were reasons he cheated but I also knew I would never ever trust him again. In my mid 40s I became involved with a married man. There was very little talk of the 'what ifs' of being together. He was clear from the start he wouldn't leave his W for several reasons. A few times he wanted to talk about it and he turned it into this fairy tale of life. I told him that if he should ever find himself leaving the M then our whole R would change. I love him dearly and I do believe we could make a long term go of things but it was never assumed. I told him if he left he'd have to have his own place and he could set out trying to win me over. In essence he was going to have to do for me just what Spark, Seren, and Silk's husbands did with them. Prove to me that you love me and show me that you're worth being with. I do think we could have made it through but it wouldn't have been easy. You assume that if you stepped out of your M he would step in. Keep in mind that APs don't want to just pick up in the M of their MP. They want their own R with them. A friend of mine left her H for someone she had a very short EA with and they tried and failed to make a go of it. She never regretted leaving her H because she felt that by getting involved with someone else she was sure there was something missing in the M. I'm not saying your xWs R was like that but that's my perspective on things.
reboot Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Basically what the OP is saying is he doesn't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same way as him about everything, believe the same things he believes, have all the same values he has, like the same foods he likes........ It's really common here. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same, eh?
silktricks Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Basically what the OP is saying is he doesn't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same way as him about everything, believe the same things he believes, have all the same values he has, like the same foods he likes........ It's really common here. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same, eh? Reboot, I think I love you.
Spark1111 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Basically what the OP is saying is he doesn't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same way as him about everything, believe the same things he believes, have all the same values he has, like the same foods he likes........ It's really common here. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same, eh? Love it reboot! Bugz, let me say this....what you want to aspire to is not anger or bitterness or questioning her choices, or the what ifs. You can get stuck there and it is not a good place to be. If you are truly secure in the choice you have made, the ideal is to get to indifference towards you xwife. Until you reach indifference, and trust me, that is no easy task after betrayal, your life will be colored by the anger you feel towards your son's mother. And I caution you, that too is unhealthy for your son. He needs, craves, the best relationship possible with his mother to grow into healthy adulthood. She needs to be the best mother possible for him. You need to be calm, respectful and considerate of her in his presence at ALL times. Good luck!
Severely Unamused Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 To be honest, I find it quite pitiable that your ex-wife hasn't moved on, even after five years. That's a long time to hold on. I agree with the post above mine too.
jnj express Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 There must be some very good reason why 97% of hook-ups via affairs fail
John Michael Kane Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 There must be some very good reason why 97% of hook-ups via affairs fail All affairs fail.
PatFinkle Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Bugz, the reason your (ex) wife didn't want to go to the OM after you discovered it and divorced her was because then it wouldn't be cheating any longer. You see, one of the biggest parts of why cheaters cheat, is because they want to cheat. That's a big part of the thrill for them. If your ex-wife was like so many others, she probably had built up some imaginary grudge against you. Maybe she felt "trapped" by being married and having to raise a child. It was all your fault, in her mind. By screwing another man behind your back, it was the ultimate way to "get back" at you. If you read some of the threads on Love Shack, especially posts by people who are actively in affairs, you will see the same kind of completely juvenile, selfish thinking as your ex-wife probably had. They are thrilled, just thrilled, to be cheaters. It almost doesn't matter who they cheat with--usually it's just some other person who is available and willing to cheat with them. They spin it up into a big love affair because that adds to the mental thrill. Once the affair is discovered, especially if consequences are imposed, the fantasy world often doesn't seem appealing at all. When you were a teenager were you ever whacking off, thinking you were safely by yourself, in private, then your parent or sibling opens up the door without warning? Takes the fun out of things pretty quickly. That's what happens to cheaters. As long as the naughty sex is a big secret from the "adult" in their life, it's naughty fun, but when someone suddenly throws the bedroom door open, they are just standing there in shock with their penis in their hand and their pants down around their legs, or in the case of a woman, with a hairbrush up her twat. --Pat F
PatFinkle Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 To be honest, I find it quite pitiable that your ex-wife hasn't moved on, even after five years. That's a long time to hold on. I agree with the post above mine too. She's "stuck" because Bugz didn't follow the script she had planned out for the little drama in her mind. He was supposed to be broken-hearted, and blame himself for everything that went wrong in the marriage, causing her to cheat, and then magically transform into another person who could somehow save her from the realities of daily life, catering to her every unreasonable, selfish whim. Isn't that what a lot of people who claim to have "reconciled" actually end up doing? Bending over backwards to accommodate a cheating spouse who might be less than remorseful? But Bugz didn't follow his ex-wife's script. He wrote a new script, and she was written out of the play, permanently. That threw her for a loop and that's why she can't get over it. Not because she misses Bugz or the marriage--what she can't get over is that Bugz didn't allow himself to be continually victimized by her manipulation. This completely upended her warped, cheater's world-view. Don't you get it? She's a cheater--that means, in her mind, she's supposed to get everything she wants, and it's supposed to work out all her way. She still hasn't accepted that everything that's happened--the loss of her husband and marriage--is a direct effect of what she did by cheating. Like so many other cheaters, she will probably never accept responsibility for what she did (which is what allowed her to do it in the first place). So she will NEVER move on. Just like so many cheaters and their betrayed spouses who post at Love Shack. --Pat F.
Try Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) You, as many who we never read about, cuz they don't come on forums, had zero tolerance, went right to D., and never looked back----we never read their stories, cuz they know immediately what they want, and they have no need for advice---those who post on the forums, are going thru he*l, and want help in every possible way they can get it----so hence they come here, go to counseling, talk to others, suck it up and try to ride thru it by themselves Good point. The OP point of view is more common than you would know from reading these forums. I think forums give many an unrealistic expectation of reconciliation. The elephant in the room that everyone ignores is that people on forums do not necessarily represent the majority point of view. Basically what the OP is saying is he doesn't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same way as him about everything, believe the same things he believes, have all the same values he has, like the same foods he likes........ It's really common here. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same, eh? The OP came to this forum to learn. He wants to try to understand another point of view. I think that he should be commended and not condemned for this. Actually, he is asking some very good questions that are not often voiced here. What a boring world it would be if we drive people with different points of view away from these forums, eh? Edited August 6, 2011 by Try
Author Bugz Bunny Posted August 6, 2011 Author Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) I was busy,but I'm here again... Someone of you said that I am still angry on my exW...the truth is I am not and when I think of the past I can say that I was never angry about my exW actions...I could say that I was sad ,hurt and mostly dissapointed in her actions but angry not (maybe not angry because I am a person that doesnt like fights or anithing like that)...after D-day I never raised my voice on exW ,or said a bad word to her because I am just not that kind of person...I simply filed for D,and after D was final I gave her my part of the house and I bought a new one for me... I tried a few times to be a friend with her but its imposible because she gets the wrong message and thinks that it's her chance for R...the truth is I could never atempt R with her and I said that to her several times so that she can move on...I am happy with my current life and I would truly love that she finds I nice person to be with...I still love her but it's the type of love that you have for your sister,brother or friend... The point of my thread was to see and understand how the BS can R with WS,and how they can stay and work on this mess that they didnt create,why hurt yourself...the relationship will never be the same and it sure won't be better then pre-A because of all the scars that remain after infidelity...For me infidelity was the only thing in a relationship that I can't forgive and the best thing was to D and move on with my life... It's the first time that I'm on a forum where people talk about infidelity and that's why I ask all this questions 5 years later and not 4-5 months or 1 year later... Edited August 6, 2011 by Bugz Bunny
reboot Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 I attempted reconciliation because I loved her. It's just that simple.
Try Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 I attempted reconciliation because I loved her. It's just that simple. That is the best of reasons.
jnj express Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 IMHO, for those who reconcile, and there are many reasons, a good number of which are for kids, many staying just long enuff to get them on their way in life, or for financial reasons, and there are other reasons to stay---but in many cases, the betrayed stays, but they are living in misery, and when the can get out they do-----MANY BETRAYED'S JUST CAN'T LOOK, TOUCH, TALK TO A SPOUSE THAT HAS DESTROYED THEM, many spouses do R., but I really wonder, about those who claim success----do you think they look over their shoulder, do you think the are 100% comfortable at social events, do you think, they are nonchalant, and happy when spouse who cheated goes on a GNO/BNO----what are they thinking about when lets say, as long as 10, 15 years down the line---something out of the ordinary happens, and their spouse who cheated is not in contact, for a period of time, that is not the norm.----I just don't really think the R., betrayed spouse has as much peace of mind, or happiness, that they claim.
sadcalifornian Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I read an article some time ago that the people who immediately divroce WW/WH and move on upon discovery of A are the ones who maintain healthy self esteem and mindset. In other words, they are the ones who at least bears minimal scar from such painful event. It is commendable to try to R, but I personally don't think it is worth it. It is always easier to maintain the status quo and settle. People make up various excuses and justification why they want R, but the truth of the matter is that they are too scared to move on with the big D.
Owl Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I read an article some time ago that the people who immediately divroce WW/WH and move on upon discovery of A are the ones who maintain healthy self esteem and mindset. In other words, they are the ones who at least bears minimal scar from such painful event. I'd be interested in reading that article. Can you provide a link, or the author or publication that you read it in?
sadcalifornian Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I'd be interested in reading that article. Can you provide a link, or the author or publication that you read it in? Sorry, Owl. It was some time ago from an article in a magazine. Can't recollect which one to be exact. So, you do not agree to this notion?
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