Marital Bed

[woinlove]

 

I am getting a very uneasy feeling about the whole thing now that I'm finally talking about it. I started to talk about it once to a male friend of mine and his reaction was so strong that I havn't talked about it to others.

 

In what way was your friend's reaction so strong - against MM's actions? against your's? both? You mentioned a friend thinking you were being used - is that the same friend?

 

Just from the bits you mentioned about your friend's reaction, the fact that this much older man is your employer, your own feelings, I think it would be worth a lot if you could talk about this to someone who knows you and is your friend - as well as posting here.

 

Your first post here already mentioned how uncomfortable you felt about this situation, but if talking about it make you feel even more uncomfortable, that seems to me to be something you need to do. You may have been ignoring some of your feelings, given how much you rely on this job. Unfortunately, I don't think you will be able to keep this job without continuing to have sex with your boss since he clearly has shown very bad impulse control (re condoms and more) and often the more you pull away the more MM becomes obsessed and feels he has to have you.

[road]

Hi,

 

I've been reading this forum for some time and thought I'd finally ask a question.

 

First off, I know its messed up, I just don't know what to do.

 

I've been invovled with my MM for six months, it started slow (we work together) and it is only occasionally. He works at least in part from his home and when I'm there he often wants to fool around in his marital bed. The more I think of that, the more I realize its a little messed up. Is this a common thing? Do you all have the same experience?

 

Hmmmmmm, what would an etiquette expert have to say on this?

 

Emily Post says that it's ok for you to bang another woman's husband but not in her bed. Unless you make the bed when your are done doing her husband.

 

Remember to make sure the sheets are pulled tight and that the flat sheets are folded at a 45 degree angle and tugged tight between the box spring and mattress so the top sheet will be nice and taunt.

 

You have no problem back stabbing another woman but have scrubbles. How responsible and caring of you.

[woinlove]

Also........I find this telling new posters who to listen to and who not to listen to condescending. I mean......can't we give posters enough credit to realize that they will take what they need and discard what they don't??

 

I think posters will do that anyway, including making up their own mind why some are telling them who to listen to.

[bentnotbroken]

I think that you are totally disregarding the power that third parties play in relationships.

 

If you hear something over and over and are in a vulnerable state, it's going to affect your decisions.

 

 

This could be true. I would let a bunch of strangers control my life's decisions too if I didn't have the gumption to make them on my own.

[woinlove]

I think that you are totally disregarding the power that third parties play in relationships.

 

If you hear something over and over and are in a vulnerable state, it's going to affect your decisions.

 

Doesn't seem to be a problem in the case under discussion in this thread, as her gut, her friend, and many posters are all in agreement. If she wants to try to view MM in a more favorable light, I think there is a post or two suggesting that too.

 

I worry a bit that things are worse than they may appear, just based on parts of her posts, but we only know what she tells us and I think she is getting feedback to help her sort out if she is getting what she wants and what she might do if she isn't. There is some abstract back-and-forth going on here, as with most threads, but that is probably easy for her to ignore and maybe even that might contain some useful ideas for her.

 

Happy, I hope you are finding useful input here and I hope you believe that you have the power to move toward a state you really do feel happy and comfortable with. Because you do.

[Severely Unamused]

We CHOOSE to listen or not, we CHOOSE to act one way or the other or not. It works the same regardless if it's from a trusted party or strangers on a forum. To imply that a poster is so easily influenced one way or the other is condescending of a posters intellect and common sense. Maybe you were the one who mentioned the brainwashing theory which I find quite amusing considering this is a forum.

 

I do have to admit, the level of infantalisation that occasionally goes on here, is a bit off-putting.

[Silly_Girl]

BB, your bolded to PT interests me. You are someone whom I know reacts to faceless anonymous strangers on a forum. They can disgust and infuriate you. Or touch and encourage you.

 

So it's not surprising that others may also feel influenced.

[NoIDidn't]

I do have to admit, the level of infantalisation that occasionally goes on here, is a bit off-putting.

 

That's a very good way of putting it.

 

I think the OP is doing a very good job of ignoring the posts that are off-topic and not helping her in any way.

[whichwayisup]

Sitting in a playground looking across at all the activity and energy and movement. Sometimes as an onlooker the gangs of bullies/wannabe bullies circling around the vulnerable ones, prodding or poking here and there, can be more obvious to a bystander than those in the centre of it. Not saying it's the case on this thread but it has happened, IMO.

 

So why bring it up since it hasn't happened on this thread?

 

Anyway, the OP doesn't need the off topic banter that's going on in her thread. Another thread can be started to talk about 'off topic' subjects such as bullying, finger pointing, ego's and ganging up on one another.

[Silly_Girl]

So why bring it up since it hasn't happened on this thread?

 

Anyway, the OP doesn't need the off topic banter that's going on in her thread. Another thread can be started to talk about 'off topic' subjects such as bullying, finger pointing, ego's and ganging up on one another.

 

To answer your question read the post I was replying to, which was discussing bullying (or not) in generic terms and not just related to this thread. There are others like that, do they not get reminded of posting rules too?

 

[MissBee]

I like the bolded wf.

 

The rest of your post above the bolded. Do you really believe that posters here have enough power to influence someone to that degree?

 

Also........I find this telling new posters who to listen to and who not to listen to condescending. I mean......can't we give posters enough credit to realize that they will take what they need and discard what they don't??

 

Ditto....

 

Unless of course it is assumed that most people coming here are thin-skinned and dim-witted, and if such is the case-- that they are thin-skinned and can't even decipher what makes sense to them online and will be "brainwashed" in an instant---then frankly, having an affair is the least of their problems and will only compound them!

 

I think it is best to allow posters to find their own way on the forum, unless they are being clearly abused and are themselves expressing that such is the case. Even toddlers are allowed to walk and wobble and fall before they get their bearings, so even more so, grown folks on an online discussion board can navigate just fine without accusations of brainwashing, telling who they should listen to or not and the like being brought up to "shield" them.

[whichwayisup]

Originally Posted by BB07

I like the bolded wf.

 

The rest of your post above the bolded. Do you really believe that posters here have enough power to influence someone to that degree?

 

Also........I find this telling new posters who to listen to and who not to listen to condescending. I mean......can't we give posters enough credit to realize that they will take what they need and discard what they don't??

 

Adults are posting here, not little children who need to be shielded. If an adult chooses to have an affair, and be willing partner in helping a WS betray and cheat on his/her spouse, then they should be able to handle some harsh words on a forum. As I always say, go into a room full of 200 people, announce your (general you) story to the crowd and expect the same reaction you'd get on here. Some will be disguisted, some will be harsh, some won't care, some will support and some will feel affairs are wrong.

 

Affairs HURT people, innocents and those participating too and that's a fact.

[White Flower]

I like the bolded wf.

 

The rest of your post above the bolded. Do you really believe that posters here have enough power to influence someone to that degree?

 

Also........I find this telling new posters who to listen to and who not to listen to condescending. I mean......can't we give posters enough credit to realize that they will take what they need and discard what they don't??

I was new here once BB, and I felt intimidated at first. It took a long time to toughen up when I was in a confused place. Since that experience, I feel it is important to meet the new poster where they are and tell them to listen to their gut instinct. Sometimes 'logical' advice overrules our instinct and oftentimes we regret not listening to our gut. I don't believe that reminding them to do so is treating them like a child. Again, posters (not you) making the wrong assumptions.

 

And now you got me wondering why the rOW and BS here don't also tell the new poster to listen to their gut. I would be interested in knowing the answer if you don't mind.

[tami-chan]

Ditto....

 

Unless of course it is assumed that most people coming here are thin-skinned and dim-witted, and if such is the case-- that they are thin-skinned and can't even decipher what makes sense to them online and will be "brainwashed" in an instant---then frankly, having an affair is the least of their problems and will only compound them!

 

I think it is best to allow posters to find their own way on the forum, unless they are being clearly abused and are themselves expressing that such is the case. Even toddlers are allowed to walk and wobble and fall before they get their bearings, so even more so, grown folks on an online discussion board can navigate just fine without accusations of brainwashing, telling who they should listen to or not and the like being brought up to "shield" them.

 

maybe not "thin-skinned and dim-witted"...maybe just raw and hurting and obviously, confused. If most can "decipher what makes sense", they won't be here taking in advice (or abuse) from anonymous people on the net.

 

That said, back to OP. I think doing "IT" in the marital bed is crass...but that's because I have assigned sentimental value to things of that sort. To some, those things are just that...things that serve a purpose.

[jthorne]

If an OP can't handle the scrutiny of anonymous people on an Internet forum, how can they possibbly manuver through an illicit relationship such as an affair? How are they possibly going to be able to handle the RL disdain of a BS on dday?

 

If an OP can't handle an Internet forum, how in the world do they handle their own reality?

[tami-chan]

If an OP can't handle the scrutiny of anonymous people on an Internet forum, how can they possibbly manuver through an illicit relationship such as an affair? How are they possibly going to be able to handle the RL disdain of a BS on dday?

 

If an OP can't handle an Internet forum, how in the world do they handle their own reality?

 

I think the expectations are different. When somebody comes here for advice or support they do not expect to be treated badly or disrespected by anonymous people. In real life, when one is involved in a situation generally not acceptable by the larger population, there is already an expectation of a negative fall-out.

 

and really, what is the point of using strong language to someone anonymous if not to fill/alleviate/satisfy/etc something within us? It is all personal.

[MissBee]

maybe not "thin-skinned and dim-witted"...maybe just raw and hurting and obviously, confused. If most can "decipher what makes sense", they won't be here taking in advice (or abuse) from anonymous people on the net.

 

That said, back to OP. I think doing "IT" in the marital bed is crass...but that's because I have assigned sentimental value to things of that sort. To some, those things are just that...things that serve a purpose.

 

Not because you don't know what to do (or are pushing back against what you need to do) in your relationship means you are generally clueless.

 

My response is in regards to other posters, or particular set of posters, making assumptions about how newbies feel in general. This assumption is that every other poster, besides themselves, are bullying/judging/some other negative this person by giving them advice that they themselves would not give. Fine, make that assumption, but why continue to insist such is the case when that person you are "defending" is saying that they actually value the advice and it's helpful? It seems like one is just serving their own end in that case and not really that concerned for this person afterall...

 

I still believe that every poster should define for themselves what THEY find to be valuable advice. If that poster is agreeing with those citing the advice as unhelpful, then by all means...but when they are not, then it just seems quite inane. I was allowed to carve my own place on LS when I just joined, and I too was hurting and raw from a break up, but nonetheless I could still decipher what advice resonated and was empathetic or "tough love" versus those that were upsetting, rude, pointless etc. Yes, it was possible to still be rational in everyday life outside of that situation. I had no need for anyone to whisper in my ear about who I should or should not listen to. If someone was being rude to me, which I can't really recall that occurring, and others stepped in, I'd be grateful as I too have stepped in when I have seen rudeness and insensitivity BUT to be handled with kid gloves as if I were the most fragile person on the planet and having others insist other people were being rude to me or telling me what I should think of other people's advice and it's usefulness to me is pretty arrogant and patronizing. Let the specific poster who started the thread decide on what he/she finds useful based on his/her own set of values, intuition etc. I think that is a fair request.

But back on board... Happy seems to have received lots of valuable advice (her sentiment) thus far.

[jthorne]

I think the expectations are different. When somebody comes here for advice or support they do not expect to be treated badly or disrespected by anonymous people. In real life, when one is involved in a situation generally not acceptable by the larger population, there is already an expectation of a negative fall-out.

So they have an expectation of negativity IRL, but don't when visiting an unprotected forum? Then it seems logical that the problem lies with the expectations of the newbie, not the people posting to them.

 

The way it's portrayed here, I have to wonder how these people supposedly so affected by LS even manage to dress themselves, much less have an A.

But back on board... Happy seems to have received lots of valuable advice (her sentiment) thus far.

I hope she will give an update when she feels appropriate. Edited August 7, 2011 by jthorne

[MissBee]

So they have an expectation of negativity IRL, but don't when visiting an unprotected forum? Then it seems logical that the problem lies with the expectations of the newbie, not the people posting to them.

 

The way it's portrayed here, I have to wonder how these people supposedly so affected by LS even manage to dress themselves, much less have an A.

 

I am too very curious about it!

 

I find the characterization of all newbies as people 2 droplets short of a puddle, to be interesting, and wonder: if most newbies are so sensitive, that LS can potentially brainwash them and bring their ruination etc, if it doesn't seem evident then that being on LS and having an affair should be the very least of their concerns.

 

Perhaps I give people too much credit when I believe that they are sensible individuals, despite their predicaments, and if they can carry on in real life and the big bad world, then they can also, from the comfort of their homes post on an anonymous board and hear different POVs that are MOSTLY meant to be helpful. OR can decide, "I don't like this" and cease.

[bentnotbroken]

I am too very curious about it!

 

I find the characterization of all newbies as people 2 droplets short of a puddle, to be interesting, and wonder: if most newbies are so sensitive, that LS can potentially brainwash them and bring their ruination etc, if it doesn't seem evident then that being on LS and having an affair should be the very least of their concerns.

 

Perhaps I give people too much credit when I believe that they are sensible individuals, despite their predicaments, and if they can carry on in real life and the big bad world, then they can also, from the comfort of their homes post on an anonymous board and hear different POVs that are MOSTLY meant to be helpful. OR can decide, "I don't like this" and cease.

 

OMG!:lmao::lmao:That is funny as hell.

[White Flower]

I was new here once too, and I also felt intimidated and I caught plenty of flack myself but yet I came here not expecting everyone to pat me on the back or approve. I also had taken the time to read before I joined so I had a pretty good idea of what awaited me, so it wasn't that big of a surprise. Most people probably do read around some before they post so they should have a general idea of what they are getting into.

 

As to listening to the gut... I don't know why that isn't mentioned more. If I apply that to me personally, I can say that I pushed down the rumblings in my gut, telling me things weren't what they seemed to be. I also think when you are in a affair, it can be very confusing because there are certain things you have to push down in order to carry on with it.

I will agree this is often true. I ignored some things in order to carry on. That is why I try to meet the new posters where they are. I want to see if they are listening to their instincts or to logic. Sometimes one is no more right than the other.

[White Flower]

So they have an expectation of negativity IRL, but don't when visiting an unprotected forum? Then it seems logical that the problem lies with the expectations of the newbie, not the people posting to them.

 

The way it's portrayed here, I have to wonder how these people supposedly so affected by LS even manage to dress themselves, much less have an A.

I hope she will give an update when she feels appropriate.

Why would she when you just said many new posters can't manage dressing themselves? That is exactly the kind of crassness and rudeness that drives new posters away. Sad, but true.

 

If you really partook in an A (and I am not saying you didn't), you would know that the newness of it can put you in an insecure place. Posting in an anonymous forum should feel a little safer than IRL situations, and the new poster should feel like they are getting advice instead of judgment, let alone crass judgment.

[tami-chan]

Not because you don't know what to do (or are pushing back against what you need to do) in your relationship means you are generally clueless.

 

Exactly. It is not about being "clueless".

 

It seems like one is just serving their own end in that case and not really that concerned for this person afterall...

 

Too true. . I would venture to say, that most, if not all things shared here...advise or otherwise is less about the OP but more about our personal issues.

[carrie999]

Carrie, what an awesome post, and even moreso, what an awesome person you are for checking in and defending newbies. The newbies really need experienced OP like us. Many who claim to be OW, rOW, and sometimes even fOW oftentimes really don't care; they just seem to care to bash. I bolded 'seem' because I want to make sure nobody can say I am pointing fingers at anyone personally.

 

Thanks, WF. I know how I felt when I came here. I was consumed with guilt and struggling with moral and ethical dilemmas and while I didn't need anyone to tell me that I wasn't doing anything wrong, or that it would all work out neatly and easily without causing pain, what I did need was to talk about my situation and hear input from others who had been in my situation. Instead, I sorted through a lot of angry posts to find some insight from either other OW or BW who actually wanted to offer constructive advice. Initially, I expected the latter entirely, and knew I'd hear that I was in for a bumpy ride and may end up hurt, and hurting others. I didn't anticipate responses that were malicious and unproductive. I bristle when I see someone new post looking for advice, because I know that many of the responses that follow will be solely intended to flog them for being such a terrible person.

 

It really undermines the purpose of the board. There is a very distinct line between admonishing someone who seems either clueless about the reality of the situation, or truly doesn't care who gets hurt because they're just looking for excitement, and bullying someone for being involved in the affair, period.

 

If you feel funny about sleeping in the marital bed, then say something and demand that your concerns are heard. If he doesn't care to accomodate you then don't shag him. Trust me, he doesn't want to lose a good thing and he will find another place to enjoy you.

 

Exactly.

[White Flower]

I have wished that I had found LS back in the day when I knew that it was an affair, (several years ago). If I had, I would have got some perspective as to how common some of the things he said to me where and I would have found it easier to question what he said vs the non actions. I think seeing and reading some of the stories here would have alerted me to xmm wasn't telling me the truth. Perhaps I would have got my head out of the sandbox sooner and it would have enlightened me. Of course I say this with hindsight now but I was so gullible and so unaware of how typical some of the things he told me were, LS would have at the least made me consider the other side of things. At that time all I had was a couple of friends perspectives and they were supporting me and because I thought he was being truthful, they took my word for it and believed to.

 

So....in my opinion, the unfiltered uncensored views here at LS are a great thing.

BB I really like this post. In fact, you had me until the very last sentence. I will respectfully say that while I agree that SOME uncensored views are great, I still find that other uncensored views are harsh and can drive new and very sensitive posters away. And I don't want to see anyone who honestly seeks good advice to feel like they are being driven away. I think we can agree on that?