Am i a douchebag or is she overreacting?

[DutchValhallaViking]

Seriously? 27?

 

I just find what you did incredibly naive. You're OLDER than I am, and I'd never get sucked into that kind of dynamic in a chat. A lot of the things leading up to the sexy pictures sounded sketchy to me --- more on her part, but bad on you for missing them, I'd say. I guess it would bother me to have a BF so obviously clueless to these things. But I'm not 21. I'm not saying it makes you a bad guy, but your defensiveness did not help you with it, and I see it all as a very odd situation.

 

But I had missed that she actually broke up with you over it. I thought she just left angry and this had JUST happened.

 

 

 

This is really how it goes.

 

Anyway, if she broke up with you, it likely wasn't over just this. That's not really how girls work.

 

Read all of my posts in this thread and the break up one and you will see it is indeed not the only one.....

 

naive or not, i didnt see any "dynamic" that was out of line, if the pics were more decent than my ex-GF and i would have had 0 issues with the talks i had with this girl. Past experience and last night's talk/argument confirmed that.

 

Still talking with the girl is because my ex-GF didnt want me to break contact with her. She also doesnt blame her and thinks she is just a bit of an attention seeker.

 

You not getting sucked into any "dynamic" while younger than me, well good on you dude. I hardly ever talk to women so my experience is still low dispite my age. And yes i am naive.

 

yeah i got defensive, too defensive. And i should probably apoligise to my ex-GF about that.

 

The question now is, how do i salvage this situation. :(

 

I guess all i can do is give my ex-GF space and back off.

[Star Gazer]

She's not require to forgive you just because you apologized.

[Star Gazer]

Really? So you'd "meet" a guy on FB, talk to him for an hour or so and then agree to look at his "pro underwear photoshoot" pictures"?

 

Really?

 

Well, he said one of them was actually a gay man pretending to be a woman. So, he was still photoswapping with someone he thought was a woman.

 

This isn't the first time he did it. Just the first time he got caught.

[DutchValhallaViking]

She's not require to forgive you just because you apologized.

 

I agree.

 

However what made me annoyed last night is that she said she had not fully forgiven me.

 

While last week, after the initial conversation about it and the break, she said she forgave me and that under normal circumstances she would have called me an *******, give me a piece of her mind for a few hours, forgive me and then forget about it and do something fun together.

 

She mentioned that the heavier reaction was because she was already doubting if she was good enough for me (read my other thread) and this made her decide i might just as easily get a girl closer to home and that she was nothing special.

 

So first she said i was forgiven and mentioned she was only a tiny bit still angry that would go away soon. Now a week later it's "not fully forgiven"...what is that? I dont know what to do with that.

[Chocolat]

Well, he said one of them was actually a gay man pretending to be a woman. So, he was still photoswapping with someone he thought was a woman.

 

This isn't the first time he did it. Just the first time he got caught.

 

He also said he's swapped pictures with "perfectly strait guys," not just the one who was pretending to be a woman.

 

Is that the new normal for straight guys?

[Star Gazer]

So you are angry and annoyed at her because you did something very wrong, leaving her insecure and worried, and you have an expectation that she should be able to get over it completely in just one week?

 

Again, she's not required to forgive you "completely" within a week, or even if ever. She can forgive, but not forget. I know this sort of thing would stay in my mind forever.

 

I think you both should just move on.

[Ruby Slippers]

I don't think it's as huge a deal as most are making it out to be, especially given that your girlfriend goes out to clubs and accumulates admirers to boost her ego. It sounds like she's flaunting and flirting aggressively -- but it's not OK for you to talk to a woman who's doing a little bit of the same?

 

From what you wrote, it sounds like she has much more power in the relationship, is a somewhat demanding princess, and you might be a bit of a doormat with her.

 

If I were you, I'd point out that this "wandering" behavior goes in both directions, you've apologized and it's time to move on, and not take any more crap from her about it. If she leaves you over this, given her own wandering ways, you're better off without her.

[DutchValhallaViking]

Well, he said one of them was actually a gay man pretending to be a woman. So, he was still photoswapping with someone he thought was a woman.

 

This isn't the first time he did it. Just the first time he got caught.

 

Wow....way to assume..this is getting rediculous...since you asked:

 

The "guy" was a player i met in World of Warcraft and pretending to be a woman from the start. Me and a friend always took his claim to be a woman with a grain of salt. And it didnt matter a damn thing, since it was just a online friend and the three of us had fun times. Male or female, we didnt give a hoot! I became friends with said person ingame and it took 2 years before we got on MSN and exchanged pictures.

 

Interestingly enough, this guy pretending to be a woman had a classmate and friend...who was the younger brother of my, now ex-, GF.

 

Also: This was 1 year before i met my ex-GF..I WAS SINGLE AT THE TIME!!!111!!````!!one!!

 

Sorry but that "jump to conclusion" shizzle pissed me off.

Edited August 2, 2011 by DutchValhallaViking

[Professor X]

Nexus said it elsewhere and I agree, sounds like she was just using it as excuse to break up with you, since she had been wanting to do so for some time now.

[Star Gazer]

Also: This was 1 year before i met my ex-GF..I WAS SINGLE AT THE TIME!!!111!!````!!one!!

 

Sorry but that "jump to conclusion" shizzle pissed me off.

 

Oh, well, you're right to get all defensive about that one instance because flirting and photoswapping is perfectly fine....WHEN YOU ARE SINGLE.

[DutchValhallaViking]

Nexus said it elsewhere and I agree, sounds like she was just using it as excuse to break up with you, since she had been wanting to do so for some time now.

 

Indeed, true. As listed in my other thread she had concerns that the long distance, her phobias, her fear of feeling a little dip in the relationship and the eventual move to her country would be too risky for me.

 

1 or 2 posts ago i listed that she would not react this strongly normally, as per her own words.

 

But this incident, because that's what it is, a stupid mistake because i wasnt judging the situation properly, was the spark that made her feel like i could easily go date this girl and be happier, with low risk.

And she doesnt feel special because it took her over a year and a half to send me those kind of pictures while this girl did it on the 2nd day she met me.

 

Mind you, i never did anything to hurt my GF in three years other than a lie i told her early in the relationship because i wasnt ready to talk about a painful topic. She got pissed but eventually decided to stay with me and forgive me.

 

But yeah she seems convinced atm that it's safer and less hurtful for me in the long run if we just stay friends. When i mentioned that being "just friends" hurt me like hell, she got really scared and upset that she might lose me.

 

I reassured her a little by saying ill stay friends even if she moves on without me, dispite it becoming painful to see her date other guys. She knows this and is currently in limbo what to do: break contact, stay friends or forgive, trust me and give our relationship another try after finding solutions to our circumstances.

[DutchValhallaViking]

Oh, well, you're right to get all defensive about that one instance because flirting and photoswapping is perfectly fine....WHEN YOU ARE SINGLE.

 

I dont understand, what is the problem?...

 

I swapped photos with people before, male and female. It never was an issue for either of us, nor is making new friends and chatting with them and showing them pictures.

 

Most of the photoswapping with men i have to say was when they want to show something or goof off, like showing their expensive sunglasses, their new computer, scars or injuries they are bragging about, etc.

 

There is nothing homoerotic about it. I am quite secure in my straitness and seeing a guy without a shirt or something wont make me freak out.

 

As for getting defensive, you were stating i did it before but just didnt get caught. And this was the ONLY time it was not appropriate. When people make stupid assumptions, i give them stupid defensive answers.

[Star Gazer]

Nexus said it elsewhere and I agree, sounds like she was just using it as excuse to break up with you, since she had been wanting to do so for some time now.

 

That may be true, but what the OP needs to understand is that for many, if not most women, what he did would be a dump-worthy offense regardless of whether she was a smitten kitten or looking for an out.

[Tasha49]

I think there are two negatives in both of your cases. What you did was partially wrong, and her reaction was also slightly wrong.

 

For you:

 

I don't know about other girls in relationships, but if I were in a healthy, loving and trusting relationship, I would certainly find what you did wrong. If my bf was chatting up girls with intentions of meeting up with them it would make me terribly insecure and a bit jealous and paranoid. How does that look to the every-day smart person? Their SO going out looking to meet with girls to "become friends." Well I mean sure, maybe friends is your sole intention behind the matter, but girls perception is more deeply rooted and complex than that of a guy, in my honest opinion. You may think what you're doing is perfectly normal, but to a girl it does look pretty shady. I would raise an eyebrow to that type of behavior. If you are in a relationship and love your gf, going out to meet with girls to friend-up isn't really necessary. Instead of seeking, it would be better off just letting a friend come to YOU. From a woman's point of view, maybe she was thinking that you going out to meet girls (to friend), meant you could possibly develop feelings for them over time?

 

Now I am not that much of a jealous person, but if my bf was chatting up girls to meet with them I would not care if it was just as friends, I would become very insecure.

 

For your ex:

 

Her going to clubs and making guys fight over her or whatever the hell she did, is ridiculous. She should bring you to the club and pay no attention to other men. And her going out to meet men for the purpose of becoming friends is also absurd to me. You both should be each other's friend, not go out and meet a bunch of other members of the opposite sex. She sounds a bit odd.

 

You chatting with this girl is wrong to me, because she even warned you in advance the pictures she wanted you to see were of her and her underwear. Even if her mom had seen them, why would you agree to see them? You should have declined before she sent them. You knew what kind of pictures they were. If your ex was chatting with some guy and she willingly allowed him to send her pictures of him in his underwear, would that be innocent to you? Well I would hope not.

 

An innocent chat would have been fine. But it went a bit far. However, the fact that you went to your gf after was somewhat good. Hopefully it wasn't due to you just feeling guilty though, rather instead because it simply did make you feel uncomfortable. But the right thing for you to have done was to go to your gf BEFORE she sent the pics.

 

She did over react I think, but you did do something that was not considered as honest or faithful. These girls in here calling you a cheating scumbag or whatnot, though, are kind of insane. That answer is the easy way out of answering all corners of your argument.

[zengirl]

Oh, well, you're right to get all defensive about that one instance because flirting and photoswapping is perfectly fine....WHEN YOU ARE SINGLE.

 

Wait, yes. Now I'm so confused. The girl is pissed about something that happened when he was single?

 

I think this might be an issue of writing style (or I need more coffee this morning). I cannot follow the OP's story at all, timeline-wise.

 

Is this a cultural thing? I never chat-exchange photos with anyone, and anyone who asked me to (that I didn't know) would seem kind of creepy. Where do you live, OP?

[DutchValhallaViking]

Wait, yes. Now I'm so confused. The girl is pissed about something that happened when he was single?

 

I think this might be an issue of writing style (or I need more coffee this morning). I cannot follow the OP's story at all, timeline-wise.

 

Is this a cultural thing? I never chat-exchange photos with anyone, and anyone who asked me to (that I didn't know) would seem kind of creepy. Where do you live, OP?

 

Would you like a flowchart with the timeline?

 

What the other poster was referring to was me swapping pictures with people before, suggesting i do it all the time and that this was the only time i 'got caught'.

 

While i did recieve pictures from female friends before the past 3 years, i always made sure to keep my GF informed so she would know there is no monkey business going on. She would always get curious and take a look, comment on how they look, id tell her she looks better, and she'd be on her merry way again.

 

This incident in this thread happened last week while i was still in a relationship with my then GF. And it was the only time i ever recieved sexy pictures from a girl, other than my now ex-GF.

I wasnt out for pictures, nevermind sexy pictures because i saw how the girl looked on her MSN display pic, and frankly i didnt give a damn how she looked, we were just finishing talking about our favourite Butters moments in South Park when she started talking about her hobby taking photoshoots and making and editing pictures. Since she was busy editing pictures at that particular moment. So we ended up talking about pictures, and photoshoots and she asked about the picture i used on MSN etc etc.

 

But i misjudged the situation and the severity of the pictures she offered me.

 

Curiously, this girl is the only one who comes close to my ex-GF in terms of physical attractiveness. Her comment during the break up that i could easily get someone that's 95% like her but close to my home kinda makes me think insecurity and self esteem cannot be completely ruled out of her reaction.

 

That said, 100% my fault this situation happened, not the girl, not my ex-GF. I never denied that, just that i found her specific reaction: "you might aswell have shagged her" overkill and quite honestly, hurtful

Edited August 2, 2011 by DutchValhallaViking

[DutchValhallaViking]

Well I mean sure, maybe friends is your sole intention behind the matter, but girls perception is more deeply rooted and complex than that of a guy, in my honest opinion. You may think what you're doing is perfectly normal, but to a girl it does look pretty shady. I would raise an eyebrow to that type of behavior. If you are in a relationship and love your gf, going out to meet with girls to friend-up isn't really necessary. Instead of seeking, it would be better off just letting a friend come to YOU. From a woman's point of view, maybe she was thinking that you going out to meet girls (to friend), meant you could possibly develop feelings for them over time?

 

Now I am not that much of a jealous person, but if my bf was chatting up girls to meet with them I would not care if it was just as friends, I would become very insecure.

 

 

I would like to repeat what i said in this thread earlier. I told me GF months ago, when i was feeling a bit insecure about all her male friends and the amount of time she spends with them, that it might do me good to find some female friends to even things out, become more social and to help me see it from her viewpoint and make myself think "hey, her spending time with guy X or Y is the same thing as me spending time with girl Q or Z. It's harmless and we got nothing to worry about."

 

That was my intend and chatting with the one female friend i had left while my GF was out clubbing 4 nights in a row did make me feel more secure and less worried my GF would run off with someone else.

 

Dispite being nailed to a cross on these and other forums for this matter, i believe i did the right thing in how i handled my mistake. Even if it means ill never be with my ex-GF again. I'll have to live with that.

Edited August 2, 2011 by DutchValhallaViking

[SillyS]

You shouldn't feel that you can't make new female friends. Sure huge judgement call on your part, but it seems you were acting out for a reason in this one. Perhaps you felt suffocated in your relationship and were doing this for a reaction in the least.

 

I saw a friend catch her boyfriend on skype with some random girl who was trying to take off her top when we walked in. He looked surprised she did that, we were surprised to find her on the screen. Let's just say, I had to talk to the police officers about the incident that took place for a few hours following the infamous purse attack!

 

Don't mess with women. We can react a lot of ways to those type of things, some more severe than others. If I were her, I don't think I would have not left you for that, but only for your honesty in the situation.

[sm1tten]

I think part of the problem here is that the OP is being attacked for doing something that many of the female posters would consider "wrong," but he was doing it in the belief that his girlfriend was okay with it because she knew all about it. His ex girlfriend's negative response is what's confusing the issue.

 

I do wonder, if his ex girlfriend's attention-seeking behavior at clubs, etc., was in response to some insecurity she had in the relationship. Chicken or egg, is kind of the question. Also, sometimes people will lie about what they are okay with in order to be perceived as "cool" or in order to justify their own boundary crossing actions. I wonder if that might also be the case - that she was fine with the pic swapping so long as it wasn't a girl she might be threatened by, and that she was okay riling up guys at the club to get attention but not okay with her boyfriend getting similar attention from females.

 

I mean, really, this could go anywhere. I don't know either one of you.

 

There is pretty much nothing you can really do about her forgiving or not forgiving you, because the problem isn't really about the pictures. The problem is that she doesn't want to be with you (but also doesn't want to let you go). That's what needs fixing.

[DutchValhallaViking]

If I were her, I don't think I would have not left you for that, but only for your honesty in the situation.

 

You know, i think that's the kindest thing people have told me about this all day. Thank you.

 

My ex-GF asks me if i can keep chatting with her and stay friendly. She feels aweful about this whole mess and honestly believes she is doing this to minimize the long term hurt i would have. (Sounds whack, but thats a recurring theme in our relationship. She's terrified of causing me to get hurt.)

 

Staying 'just friends' would hurt her least but it kinda makes me a doormat no?

 

So, how best to win her back and ease her worries and maximize the chance of getting back together?

[zengirl]

I think part of the problem here is that the OP is being attacked for doing something that many of the female posters would consider "wrong," but he was doing it in the belief that his girlfriend was okay with it because she knew all about it. His ex girlfriend's negative response is what's confusing the issue.

 

Probably. To me, that's all a weird boundary issue thing, but perhaps they don't have good boundary communication. I don't see how he didn't see the dirty pictures coming, based on his own description. But maybe girls are just better trained to look for these creepster signs, as it's more crucial to our survival. At any rate, it sounds like this is the tip of the iceberg for relationship problems.

 

Personally, though, I have a HUGE pet peeve for anyone being defensive when they're in the wrong. The OP knew he was wrong, but he wanted to go defensive and quibble on "how wrong" he is. Bad tact to take in an argument. Just stand there and be wrong when you're wrong (male or female, me or anyone else). You don't get to decide how upset the other person should be. Just be wrong. And accept the consequences.

[DutchValhallaViking]

Probably. To me, that's all a weird boundary issue thing, but perhaps they don't have good boundary communication. I don't see how he didn't see the dirty pictures coming, based on his own description. But maybe girls are just better trained to look for these creepster signs, as it's more crucial to our survival. At any rate, it sounds like this is the tip of the iceberg for relationship problems.

 

Personally, though, I have a HUGE pet peeve for anyone being defensive when they're in the wrong. The OP knew he was wrong, but he wanted to go defensive and quibble on "how wrong" he is. Bad tact to take in an argument. Just stand there and be wrong when you're wrong (male or female, me or anyone else). You don't get to decide how upset the other person should be. Just be wrong. And accept the consequences.

 

 

Agreed, i should have seen it coming. I am a bit naive and wasnt at my best mood to judge intentions. My ex-GF is mostly just lightly teasing by laughing and telling boys they cannot have her, and i dont mind that she feels good about it, as long as it doesnt become actual flirting or physical or emotional cheating, or inappropriate behaviour such as grinding or flashing etc.

 

And agreed, i should not have gotten defensive, but my whole point being that her comparison "you might aswell have shagged her" was over the top. That has less to do with "stand there and take it like a man" and more with "ok, i dont think i deserve that, that actually hurt :(".

 

My loyalty and devotion to her have been one of the things i have been most proud of. It's hard to explain how such a simple comment of hers can make you feel worthless. And 6 days after the incident she still seems to stick by her opinion i might aswell have had sex with the girl, so not exactly a heat of the moment reaction either.

[Tasha49]

I was thinking... maybe this is another possibility, OP:

 

I am in a situation where, basically, it is an open relationship though against my liking. We had never agreed to an open relationship, but his actions have made it lean toward that title. I had always made it clear I have strong feelings for him and that I never plan to even flirt with anyone else. And I never have. Him however, I cannot say the same for. He has slept with a few other girls well into this relationship. Even though he knows it kills me. He made it clear he would walk away if I ever sleep with someone else. Well wait a minute, double standard much? Yes. Very much so.

 

So recently I kissed a guy while I was out clubbing. Technically it was innocent since I have no tie to a relationship. I told him, just to see his reaction. He was LIVID! Treated me like dirt in response, saying he thought I was different and never thought I would cheat. Um hello? It was just a kiss and he did way worse multiple times. Eventually he forgave me.

 

My point is... some people can't stand to get a taste of their own medicine. Your ex was going out and flirting, no biggie, right? Well what you did may have seemed like flirting to her, so when she saw that you were doing to her what she was doing to you, it gave her a sense of untitlement. Maybe she felt like she wasn't the only one who got to play games. It got to her perhaps, seeing it from the other side. Maybe it was too much for her? Just a thought.

[DutchValhallaViking]

I was thinking... maybe this is another possibility, OP:

 

I am in a situation where, basically, it is an open relationship though against my liking. We had never agreed to an open relationship, but his actions have made it lean toward that title. I had always made it clear I have strong feelings for him and that I never plan to even flirt with anyone else. And I never have. Him however, I cannot say the same for. He has slept with a few other girls well into this relationship. Even though he knows it kills me. He made it clear he would walk away if I ever sleep with someone else. Well wait a minute, double standard much? Yes. Very much so.

 

So recently I kissed a guy while I was out clubbing. Technically it was innocent since I have no tie to a relationship. I told him, just to see his reaction. He was LIVID! Treated me like dirt in response, saying he thought I was different and never thought I would cheat. Um hello? It was just a kiss and he did way worse multiple times. Eventually he forgave me.

 

My point is... some people can't stand to get a taste of their own medicine. Your ex was going out and flirting, no biggie, right? Well what you did may have seemed like flirting to her, so when she saw that you were doing to her what she was doing to you, it gave her a sense of untitlement. Maybe she felt like she wasn't the only one who got to play games. It got to her perhaps, seeing it from the other side. Maybe it was too much for her? Just a thought.

 

I feel sorry for the situation you got into, and thank you for your good reply. It's indeed an interesting theory, and my ex-GF can be a hypocrite. For example, 2,5 years ago she got drunk and gave a guy a kiss after a friend dared her to. Back then i had not met her yet but we were involved emotionally and openly declared ourselves exclusive to one another like a BF/GF would. So basically, NOT innocent.

 

She felt absolutely horrible and guilty etc about her mistake and came to me to confess it the following day when she remembered it. I was angry with her but noticing how she got physically sick from guilt and was hyperventilating and having a real panic attack. (since i was in another country, i could see her have one on webcam, scary thing btw!)

 

I was angry and waited till her panic attack was over before i showed my dissapointment and stated that i was hurt that this random guy got to kiss her and therefor got more from her than me at that point . (first meeting was a few weeks later btw, she kept delaying it because she was highly nervous about it.)

 

After things settled down and i forgave her and i thought things were ok again, she got completely pissed off at me for suggesting that the kiss she gave this guy in her drunken stupor was worth more than her heart and soul she gave me.

 

When she kept being angry about the fact that this girl gave me sexy pictures on the 2nd day while it took my ex-GF 6 months to do so, i referred to this incident and that her heart and soul were more important and that this random internet girl only sent me inappropriate pictures because i had a 5 second lapse of judgement. Like she had when she got dared to kiss a guy in a tipsy/drunk state.

Amusingly, she handwaved this angerly away with a "yeah yeah, whatever".

Edited August 2, 2011 by DutchValhallaViking

[Nexus One]

I was thinking... maybe this is another possibility, OP:

 

I am in a situation where, basically, it is an open relationship though against my liking. We had never agreed to an open relationship, but his actions have made it lean toward that title. I had always made it clear I have strong feelings for him and that I never plan to even flirt with anyone else. And I never have. Him however, I cannot say the same for. He has slept with a few other girls well into this relationship. Even though he knows it kills me. He made it clear he would walk away if I ever sleep with someone else. Well wait a minute, double standard much? Yes. Very much so.

 

So recently I kissed a guy while I was out clubbing. Technically it was innocent since I have no tie to a relationship. I told him, just to see his reaction. He was LIVID! Treated me like dirt in response, saying he thought I was different and never thought I would cheat. Um hello? It was just a kiss and he did way worse multiple times. Eventually he forgave me.

 

My point is... some people can't stand to get a taste of their own medicine. Your ex was going out and flirting, no biggie, right? Well what you did may have seemed like flirting to her, so when she saw that you were doing to her what she was doing to you, it gave her a sense of untitlement. Maybe she felt like she wasn't the only one who got to play games. It got to her perhaps, seeing it from the other side. Maybe it was too much for her? Just a thought.

 

One thing that I've noticed is that all cheaters seem to have something in common and that 'something' seems to be hypocrisy. They will nail their SO to the cross for the smallest things that aren't even close to cheating, all the while they themselves f*ck around with a lot of people.

 

So whenever I hear of hypocrisy in a relationship, then I basically hear sirens. Up to now I haven't heard about anyone who was cheating that wasn't also hypocritical. In my opinion it's something to be on the lookout for.

 

That doesn't mean all hypocrites are cheaters, that's not what I'm saying, it just seems like cheating goes hand in hand with hypocrisy.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Nexus One