Should I give up?

[spiderowl]

I think I've reached the end of the road. Due to bad experiences in the past, I've become increasingly mistrustful of guys. I had hoped to meet someone genuine online, but either I'm not attracted or they rapidly turn out to be sleazes.

 

I got chatting to this guy recently who seemed decent. He did get into some mild flirting (well, I think it would have been less mild, had I gone that direction), but he was respectful and friendly. He wanted to come and meet me. It's long distance so not easy, but he seemed happy to. But, mistrust got the better of me and I pretty much asked him if he was just looking for a one-nighter. Either he was offended or I hit a nerve because he decided to give up on me. Now, I'm upset because there were lots of good things and maybe I wrecked it with my mistrust.

 

I have 'dumped' several guys before meeting them because I felt their motives were mainly to get a leg-over and getting to know me was incidental. This may or may not have been true, but there were other reasons, like they put me under too much pressure or were too focused on sex and hardly seemed to want to know anything else about me.

 

I feel so disappointed that things have gone pear-shaped with this guy. He did flirt but he was fun and respectful with it. Now I feel I've lost him but also at the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe he was only interested in a bit of fun and I was clearly interested in more, so that's the real reason he dropped out. It's not like I'm putting pressure on guys for a serious relationship from the start - that would put pressure on me as, if I haven't met them, how would I know if I wanted that? I just want some indication that they are not in it solely for sex.

 

It's obvious I don't trust guys enough. I don't know what I can do; I think I've reached the end of the line. I'm feeling pain now directly because pain I've experienced in the past and the need to avoid it. Do I have to resign myself to being celibate for the rest of my life? That seems a terrible prospect and I feel my life is ruined if that's the case. I also feel angry that I'm suffering again because some guy in the past was so dishonest and despicable and because others online have tried to be users.

 

I just wish this guy had understood how wary I am and made allowances, but he obviously didn't. I've apologised but I don't know how he'll respond. I think he won't. Once people make a true decision, in any field, that's it usually. Is there any hope for me? I'm feeling really depressed right now.

Edited August 1, 2011 by spiderowl

[D-Lish]

I think you had a right to ask that question. If his intentions were honorable, such a question wouldn't offend him!

 

I'm the same as you, I have gotten to the end of my rope with dating.

 

I'll have a couple nice exchanges with people online and then it will become sexual (which I've just learned to expect).

 

It's frustrating- I feel your pain:mad:

[Desensitized]

I think I've reached the end of the road. Due to bad experiences in the past, I've become increasingly mistrustful of guys. I had hoped to meet someone genuine online, but either I'm not attracted or they rapidly turn out to be sleazes.

 

I got chatting to this guy recently who seemed decent. He did get into some mild flirting (well, I think it would have been less mild, had I gone that direction), but he was respectful and friendly. He wanted to come and meet me. It's long distance so not easy, but he seemed happy to. But, mistrust got the better of me and I pretty much asked him if he was just looking for a one-nighter. Either he was offended or I hit a nerve because he decided to give up on me. Now, I'm upset because there were lots of good things and maybe I wrecked it with my mistrust.

 

I have 'dumped' several guys before meeting them because I felt their motives were mainly to get a leg-over and getting to know me was incidental. This may or may not have been true, but there were other reasons, like they put me under too much pressure or were too focused on sex and hardly seemed to want to know anything else about me.

 

I feel so disappointed that things have gone pear-shaped with this guy. He did flirt but he was fun and respectful with it. Now I feel I've lost him but also at the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe he was only interested in a bit of fun and I was clearly interested in more, so that's the real reason he dropped out. It's not like I'm putting pressure on guys for a serious relationship from the start - that would put pressure on me as, if I haven't met them, how would I know if I wanted that? I just want some indication that they are not solely in it for sex.

 

It's obvious I don't trust guys enough. I don't know what I can do; I think I've reached the end of the line. I'm feeling pain now directly because of past pain I've experienced and the need to avoid it. Do I have to resign myself to being celibate for the rest of my life? That seems a terrible prospect and I feel my life is ruined is that's the case. I also feel angry that I'm suffering again because some guy in the past was so dishonest and despicable and because others online have tried to be users.

 

I just wish this guy had understood how wary I am and made allowances, but he obviously didn't. I've apologised but I don't know how he'll respond. I think he won't. Once people make a true decision, in any field, that's it usually. Is there any hope for me? I'm feeling really depressed right now.

 

It's understandable to not be thinking clearly when you have been hurt. But, to say that you'll never trust again is unlikely. Most of us here on LS have been screwed over by the opposite sex, but instead of letting it take over you, take it as a valuable life lesson and move forward. Now that you know what you don't want, it'll make finding what you do want a lot easier. The last woman I was with was very deceitful with me from the very beginning to the very end. You can imagine how much hatred I had for her; women in particular. As time goes by though, you realize that, just because one person screwed you over, doesn't mean they all will.

 

Your problem is that you still need to heal a bit more before you go trying to find another partner. Honestly, you will find someone better if you don't go trying to look for it.

 

Best of luck.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for the comforting words.

 

I didn't just ask about a one-nighter but also said he didn't seem to be interested in talking about anything else, so I suppose that could have been taken as insulting. I don't know - how would a genuine guy have interepreted that?

 

The creeps do spoil it for other guys but also women. How do you trust anyone?

 

I'll have a couple nice exchanges with people online and then it will become sexual (which I've just learned to expect).

That is exactly what it's like, so incredibly depressing. Although some guys do this online, it makes you wonder what the guys who don't go online are really thinking when you get talking to them!

 

I don't know about healing. I've had a few years to heal and although the pain has lessened, the minute I start chatting with anyone I just can't believe anything they say. The guy who caused this problem was pretty much a sociopath and lied directly to my face on many occasions while he was smiling and relaxed. He disappeared suddenly and accused me of harassing him when I tried to found out the hell had happened to him - I was actually worried if he'd got injured as he had a potentially dangerous job! I came to the conclusion this must be his modus operandi.

 

I'm older now and running out of time to 'heal', which is why I wonder if I might as well give up.

Edited August 1, 2011 by spiderowl

[Desensitized]

The guy who caused this problem was pretty much a sociopath and lied directly to my face on many occasions while he was smiling and relaxed. He disappeared suddenly and accused me of harassing him when I tried to found out the hell had happened to him

Hey, chin up. The woman I was with (my ex-fiancee) had BPD and she had some very sociopathic tendencies, so I understand how you're feeling. She used to lie to my face; I knew she was lying too, I would have to pry the truth out of her. It's like sometimes I question what was actually real & true in our relationship. It sucks because you really cared about this person, but to them, it's just another stupid game to them.

 

My ex-fiancee also made absurd claims that I was mentally abusive (which i wasn't) and all this other nonsense. All I can say, is that, you dodged a bullet. Be grateful that this life-sucking demon is out of your life. Don't give up, not everyone is a sociopath. The world is filled with people, and the beauty of it is that you could meet the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with tomorrow, next week, or even later on today

[FitChick]

It's good to take a break from dating. My subscription expired in June and I deleted my profile. I will probably put it back up in September. I've done similar in the past and it often spurs men to write if they were dithering before. If they always see your photo it's sort of like being the woman sitting at home by the phone. You get taken for granted. What is scarce has more value.

 

In the meantime I need to get some things sorted in my real life so it's a relief not to have to worry about anyone else for the moment.

 

I find it helpful to write three lists:

 

1. qualities you want in a man

2. qualities you would never tolerate under any circumstances

3. qualities that you can put up with even though they aren't ideal -- no one is perfect.

[spiderowl]

Some heartening words there. Maybe I'm just past being uplifted now. Guess it's a bad day for me.

 

I'm sorry you also experienced someone lying; that must have been tough. I didn't know this guy was lying until he disappeared and then I realised that so much about him was taken on trust. He wasn't the only one, but the other guy was a totally different story and had a volatile temper. Fortunately, he never used it on me but he was certainly unpredictable again. That's why I find it so hard to trust anyone now. I almost feel I want them to prove everything and to be consistent for a while before I can trust them, yet relationships don't normally work like that. We usually trust and mostly it works. I can't see any other way to function, but clearly trusting isn't the way either!

 

Now I know why so many women seem to end up on their own in later years. It's not because their partners die (though some do), it's because they have got fed up with being hurt by guys.

Edited August 1, 2011 by spiderowl

[Woggle]

Please don't think I am not being sympathetic because I am but no man wants to feel like he is being made to pay for another man's sins and that is probably what this guy thought. You don't even know him and you were already interrogating him. He doesn't know your history so he probably backed away as fast as he could.

[thatone]

I think you had a right to ask that question. If his intentions were honorable, such a question wouldn't offend him!

 

I'm the same as you, I have gotten to the end of my rope with dating.

 

I'll have a couple nice exchanges with people online and then it will become sexual (which I've just learned to expect).

 

It's frustrating- I feel your pain:mad:

 

this is dejavu of a thread a few months back, where we were arguing the merits of asking people questions about their exes, and i pointed out that they could simply lie. same applies here, what's the point of asking someone what their intentions are, they could just lie. words can be rehearsed, actions eventually reveal who people are.

 

I think I've reached the end of the road. Due to bad experiences in the past, I've become increasingly mistrustful of guys. I had hoped to meet someone genuine online, but either I'm not attracted or they rapidly turn out to be sleazes.

 

I got chatting to this guy recently who seemed decent. He did get into some mild flirting (well, I think it would have been less mild, had I gone that direction), but he was respectful and friendly. He wanted to come and meet me. It's long distance so not easy, but he seemed happy to. But, mistrust got the better of me and I pretty much asked him if he was just looking for a one-nighter. Either he was offended or I hit a nerve because he decided to give up on me. Now, I'm upset because there were lots of good things and maybe I wrecked it with my mistrust.

 

I have 'dumped' several guys before meeting them because I felt their motives were mainly to get a leg-over and getting to know me was incidental. This may or may not have been true, but there were other reasons, like they put me under too much pressure or were too focused on sex and hardly seemed to want to know anything else about me.

 

I feel so disappointed that things have gone pear-shaped with this guy. He did flirt but he was fun and respectful with it. Now I feel I've lost him but also at the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe he was only interested in a bit of fun and I was clearly interested in more, so that's the real reason he dropped out. It's not like I'm putting pressure on guys for a serious relationship from the start - that would put pressure on me as, if I haven't met them, how would I know if I wanted that? I just want some indication that they are not in it solely for sex.

 

It's obvious I don't trust guys enough. I don't know what I can do; I think I've reached the end of the line. I'm feeling pain now directly because pain I've experienced in the past and the need to avoid it. Do I have to resign myself to being celibate for the rest of my life? That seems a terrible prospect and I feel my life is ruined if that's the case. I also feel angry that I'm suffering again because some guy in the past was so dishonest and despicable and because others online have tried to be users.

 

I just wish this guy had understood how wary I am and made allowances, but he obviously didn't. I've apologised but I don't know how he'll respond. I think he won't. Once people make a true decision, in any field, that's it usually. Is there any hope for me? I'm feeling really depressed right now.

 

you're not going to get anywhere by flaking on people you just met (or worse yet, haven't met), you have to actually go on the dates.

[spiderowl]

I appreciate what you say, Woggle. I would agree no man would want to pay for another's sins - and why should they have to? Maybe he was insulted: it's possible. He is a sophisticated communicator though (in a profession where one would expect that) so I'm surprised he didn't just enquire further and try to work out what was happening. Maybe that's a sign to me that he isn't right for me, that he couldn't be bothered. Obviously, I didn't matter than much to him.

[blueskyday]

Well, I need consistency of good behavior, too, before I can trust. Pretty normal. The guy I'm with now knows that I need that, and I hold him to it. No apologies. It's what I have to have based on my past and the abusive men who I allowed to damage my ability to trust.

 

I would rather over-react and scare a guy off than under-react and give a jerk a chance to take hold of me. Believe it or not, a good guy will stick around even if you "rock the boat" a bit. He wants to prove himself. A bad guy won't want you looking too closely at him!

 

If this guy you were talking to was already speaking sexually to you, then that's a red flag! You were actually seing things clearly and you more than likely called it exactly right. That's why he disappeared!

 

A "good guy" would have reassured you, not taken off. You had every right to be concerned. Personally, I don't do online stuff. A lot of the guys are only after sex.

 

Maybe you dodged a bullet. From now on, don't let any guy talk sexually to you right away. Dump guys who do that. A gentleman will be more romantic at first, not outright sexual.

[thatone]

I appreciate what you say, Woggle. I would agree no man would want to pay for another's sins - and why should they have to? Maybe he was insulted: it's possible. He is a sophisticated communicator though (in a profession where one would expect that) so I'm surprised he didn't just enquire further and try to work out what was happening. Maybe that's a sign to me that he isn't right for me, that he couldn't be bothered. Obviously, I didn't matter than much to him.

 

but that's the thing, why should he have to try to coax information out of you? he has already had to initiate contact with you, and keep conversation going to the point of asking you out. he's put in quite a bit of work, and you respond with a guilt trip about something he hasn't done wrong.

 

you're giving them red flags with your mistrust.

 

you need to relax, process the information as it comes in, and don't flake on the first date with the ones you've not found anything wrong with. you meet somewhere, eat, drink a couple of drinks, and go your separate ways, what's there to lose?

 

Well, I need consistency of good behavior, too, before I can trust. Pretty normal. The guy I'm with now knows that I need that, and I hold him to it. No apologies. It's what I have to have based on my past and the abusive men who I allowed to damage my ability to trust.

 

I would rather over-react and scare a guy off than under-react and give a jerk a chance to take hold of me. Believe it or not, a good guy will stick around even if you "rock the boat" a bit. He wants to prove himself. A bad guy won't want you looking too closely at him!

 

If this guy you were talking to was already speaking sexually to you, then that's a red flag! You were actually seing things clearly and you more than likely called it exactly right. That's why he disappeared!

 

A "good guy" would have reassured you, not taken off. You had every right to be concerned. Personally, I don't do online stuff. A lot of the guys are only after sex.

 

Maybe you dodged a bullet. From now on, don't let any guy talk sexually to you right away. Dump guys who do that. A gentleman will be more romantic at first, not outright sexual.

 

sorry but that's wrong. just because the one you found was that patient doesn't mean everyone else will be, nor should they be. men are attracted to confidence just like women are. a walking bag of paranoia and drama is not what a rational, sane, normal man is looking for.

 

you don't have to trust every man you meet, but if you mistrust them without good cause the good ones will simply walk away.

Edited August 1, 2011 by thatone

[D-Lish]

I appreciate what you say, Woggle. I would agree no man would want to pay for another's sins - and why should they have to? Maybe he was insulted: it's possible. He is a sophisticated communicator though (in a profession where one would expect that) so I'm surprised he didn't just enquire further and try to work out what was happening. Maybe that's a sign to me that he isn't right for me, that he couldn't be bothered. Obviously, I didn't matter than much to him.

 

Spider, was he already bringing up sex before you met?

[blueskyday]

I agree, meet someone for a date and give them a chance. Is it possible, though, that he was giving off a vibe that he was just into sex? Why not get clarification BEFORE you go, then?

 

True, he could lie, but if he thought sex was on the table and that's all both of you wanted, he might say "Yes, I want a one-nighter." Lots of guys do. Then she wouldn't have had to go.

 

If he lied and said no, then she could have still gone and given it a shot. Can't hide that kind of agenda long anyway.

 

But, I wouldn't go meet any guy who was leading with a sexual foot. Seen it too many times, and they are creeps.

[thatone]

i don't disagree with that, you should be able to tell on a phone call what the vast majority of people are about.

[spiderowl]

Thanks, it's all giving me food for thought.

 

I would rather over-react and scare a guy off than under-react and give a jerk a chance to take hold of me. Believe it or not, a good guy will stick around even if you "rock the boat" a bit. He wants to prove himself. A bad guy won't want you looking too closely at him!

I did rock the boat a bit, a few times, with my doubts about his motives, but he was decent about it and I thought he understood (wrong!). I think he decided it wasn't worth the trouble and that I must be crazy or something to be so suspicious. As he works with some genuinely crazy people, I can understand him thinking he doesn't need more. I don't know, I don't think I've behaved in a crazy fashion, just been very wary and questioning why he'd want to be with someone like me. We are very different in some ways - he's very sporty and I'm not - so I thought he'd lose interest because of that. It looks like he's lost interest now anyway.

[D-Lish]

I agree, meet someone for a date and give them a chance. Is it possible, though, that he was giving off a vibe that he was just into sex? Why not get clarification BEFORE you go, then?

 

True, he could lie, but if he thought sex was on the table and that's all both of you wanted, he might say "Yes, I want a one-nighter." Lots of guys do. Then she wouldn't have had to go.

 

If he lied and said no, then she could have still gone and given it a shot. Can't hide that kind of agenda long anyway.

 

But, I wouldn't go meet any guy who was leading with a sexual foot. Seen it too many times, and they are creeps.

 

I agree with you 100%

[Woggle]

Most men would rather run and focus their attention on a woman who is less drama. He is not the one that did all those things to you so why should he have to pay the price for it? God knows I have trust issues with women myself but as much as I vent on here about it I never expect my wife to twist herself into knots trying to placate my issues.

[thatone]

Thanks, it's all giving me food for thought.

 

 

I did rock the boat a bit, a few times, with my doubts about his motives, but he was decent about it and I thought he understood (wrong!). I think he decided it wasn't worth the trouble and that I must be crazy or something to be so suspicious. As he works with some genuinely crazy people, I can understand him thinking he doesn't need more. I don't know, I don't think I've behaved in a crazy fashion, just been very wary and questioning why he'd want to be with someone like me. We are very different in some ways - he's very sporty and I'm not - so I thought he'd lose interest because of that. It looks like he's lost interest now anyway.

 

ok, that's more information and i'm gonna change my opinion a bit. the whole point, to me, of online dating was to weed out people you have nothing in common with so that the ones you do contact you can be pretty sure that there are no unforeseen deal breakers with (such as religion etc.)

 

if you didn't have interests in common and he was long distance, your mistrust may have been correct.

 

but that begs the question, why did you get so prematurely attached to him?

[blueskyday]

Thanks, D-Lish! I still think trust is generally earned, not given without merit, and I wouldn't trust anyone talking about sex too early!

 

One date I had was with a guy who told me on date number one that he was christian so I should trust him 100% without reservation! Second date was spent with him talking to me like I was a porn actress and trying to get me into bed. When I said no, he said I didn't trust men!

 

Nope, just not him....how manipulative!

[thatone]

for online purposes, you need to organize a set of criteria that you're looking for and can reasonably find. you have a ton of information on these people before you talk to them, so you can't just sit back and respond to messages as they come in, you should be looking at men's profiles on there too, and determining the good and bad on your own. it's not a bar where you just sit and wait to see who walks up, nor is it anonymous, it's actually very far from anonymous since you have to put so much information about yourself in those profiles.

 

use that to your advantage.

[Nexus One]

It's only fair to ask that question, since I suspect the majority of guys on online dating websites are looking for free sex. There are lots of guys out there who are lead by their horniness rather than a desire for romance.

 

The fact that he was no longer interested after your question/remark could have been for either of the following two reasons in my opinion.

 

1. He felt you saw him through, so he felt exposed and played the "you've insulted me" card.

 

2. He actually felt insulted and got angry.

 

And neither of those two reasons is a good one. In the first case he wasn't truly interested in you, but only sex. And in the second case his personality doesn't seem suited for a relationship due to his ego.

 

A guy that is genuinely interested in a woman beyond just sex and is stable relationship material would not have reacted in either of those two ways. The way I would have reacted to this is that first of all I would be somewhat shocked that she would think that of me, but I wouldn't be insulted due to it being a genuine concern for her. I would have then tried to convince her that she had the wrong impression of me, that I'm not that kind of guy. I would also try to prevent from doing or saying the same thing that gave her that impression in the first place. But the only way she would really learn that I'm genuine with her would be that I stick around and am consistent in my behavior and that my word is reliable. Over time she would get to know me and learn that I'm really not that kind of guy. Hopefully she then would get to trust me and would let her guard down, because it would be hard to be in a relationship where you know and feel that your SO doesn't trust you.

 

So that's the way I would handle that.

[D-Lish]

Thanks, D-Lish! I still think trust is generally earned, not given without merit, and I wouldn't trust anyone talking about sex too early!

 

One date I had was with a guy who told me on date number one that he was christian so I should trust him 100% without reservation! Second date was spent with him talking to me like I was a porn actress and trying to get me into bed. When I said no, he said I didn't trust men!

 

Nope, just not him....how manipulative!

 

Lol. I've had some pretty crazy dates myself.

 

I was chatting back and forth with a cute guy from pof for a few days- and we were chatting about 2am the other night and he says "so, can I come over?" I actually didn't see that coming because he had been really cool up until that point.

 

But you're right, trust is something that has to be earned.

[Zaphod B]

I got chatting to this guy recently who seemed decent. He did get into some mild flirting (well, I think it would have been less mild, had I gone that direction), but he was respectful and friendly. He wanted to come and meet me. It's long distance so not easy, but he seemed happy to. But, mistrust got the better of me and I pretty much asked him if he was just looking for a one-nighter. Either he was offended or I hit a nerve because he decided to give up on me. Now, I'm upset because there were lots of good things and maybe I wrecked it with my mistrust.

 

He had no right to be upset about that, especially considering its on the Internet and the woman doesn't really know what she's getting. If that sort of thing would genuinely offend him, then he'd be the sort of guy who'll get offended at a lot of stupid things and you'd be forever having to walk on broken eggshells all the time.

 

I feel so disappointed that things have gone pear-shaped with this guy. He did flirt but he was fun and respectful with it. Now I feel I've lost him but also at the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe he was only interested in a bit of fun and I was clearly interested in more, so that's the real reason he dropped out. It's not like I'm putting pressure on guys for a serious relationship from the start - that would put pressure on me as, if I haven't met them, how would I know if I wanted that? I just want some indication that they are not in it solely for sex.

 

Fair enough too.

 

It's obvious I don't trust guys enough. I don't know what I can do; I think I've reached the end of the line. I'm feeling pain now directly because pain I've experienced in the past and the need to avoid it. Do I have to resign myself to being celibate for the rest of my life? That seems a terrible prospect and I feel my life is ruined if that's the case. I also feel angry that I'm suffering again because some guy in the past was so dishonest and despicable and because others online have tried to be users.

 

I just wish this guy had understood how wary I am and made allowances, but he obviously didn't. I've apologised but I don't know how he'll respond. I think he won't. Once people make a true decision, in any field, that's it usually. Is there any hope for me? I'm feeling really depressed right now.

 

Don't give up. I too have been very frustrated with the dating scene, finding that there are way too many players out there, or women who don't know what they want or women who say they want nice guys but in reality they're looking for bad boys. But I have to keep telling myself that the right person is out there for me. I have come close several times and it's heart breaking when something goes wrong or you screw up and if you're like me you kick yourself over and over. I think it's like flicking through a deck of cards. Sooner or later you'll find your ace, but you've gotta keep flicking through the cards otherwise you'll never find it.

[spiderowl]

I really appreciate your input and support. I was feeling crap last night.

 

you're not going to get anywhere by flaking on people you just met (or worse yet, haven't met), you have to actually go on the dates.

 

Just so people realise, I only flaked because I felt their interest was focused on sex and they couldn't relate on any other level. Usually, they'd got frustrated with me because I wasn't prepared to talk sex with them or tell them my dress size! I wouldn't drop someone who I felt was a good guy making an effort.

 

Things have moved on, as I'll explain in a minute.

 

For D-Lish, yes he did try to talk sex but was tactful and amusing when I made it clear I wasn't into that. It turned into some nice exchanges and only mild flirting, but always hints of physical fun. It was the fact that he seemed to turn the conversation to that the whole time, and didn't seem interested in me as a person, that put my back up.

 

Anyway, the update. Having thought about it, I did wonder last night if I had been a bit insulting with my direct question. I decided to apologise and sent a text. I got a rather terse one back saying (in less tactful words) I didn't want him sexually and seemed to want something else. Well, yes, I was trying to relate to him too, not just look at it in a one-sided way. Having explained this to him (which I shouldn't have had to at all), he got cold and wished me 'good luck with that'. As far as I'm concerned, he was disrespectful and selfish and clearly not interested in the same thing as me.

 

I'm so pissed off with guys. Did he think I was just going to meet him to hook up? What am I supposed to have done wrong? I'm looking for a real relationship not a fling. There is nothing on my profile to indicate whatsover that I'm looking for an unemotional, unattached hook up. Where do these guys come from who assume I'll go along with their plans? I'm disappointed because this guy is quite senior in a caring profession (laughable!) and stupid me thought he might be different from the other internet creeps!

 

And Nexus One, you actually sound like a gent! That's the way I'd have expected him to respond, but in the end he just got angry and sarcastic. Good thing we didn't meet.

Edited August 2, 2011 by spiderowl