I found something for me...

[EasyHeart]

My understanding is that there is a very bright line between fashion modeling and nude modeling, and it's hard for nude models to move into more legitimate modeling. A model's job is to make the clothes she's wearing look good. How does a nude pic give a future-employer any idea of how clothing will hang on you?

[Finch]

thatone - She's asking for input on the modeling situation and her boyfriend as it stands now, not soliciting advice on how she and her boyfriend share their living costs.

 

Tigress, I think keeping the nude photos out of the starter portfolio sounds like a good idea. It may never come up as a job, in which case there isn't anything to worry about. Also, as Iris pointed out, if you start off with some other assignments and your boyfriend gets to see what this modeling stuff is all about, he may be able to ease into the thought of you doing more risqué or artistic shoots.

[zengirl]

Well, I've amended the decision to have them in a starter portfolio--I won't have any in there, as you and Iris have made good points about not including them. But I did bring it up with BF not strictly in the sense of a starter portfolio--I brought it up in a general sense, which includes paid assignments.

 

Okay. Sorry if I seemed fixated (and I wrote second post that before your amendment was posted FTR), but it just seemed a really weird way to go. And I could understand that causing discomfort.

 

In terms of paid assignments, how skimpy bothers the BF? Is it just nudes? And how did you bring it up? Also what level of nude work would you be willing to do? Most of what I'd call "classy" nude work (high fashion, which frankly, at your age is pretty unlikely) is actually less provocative than the average Victoria Secret or swimsuit catalog. A lot of it is about angles and hiding, so while you are nude on-set, it's rarely pornographic. Then, there's like Playboy/Maxim nude work, which is another story.

 

I think it's okay for a BF to be uncomfortable with his GF suddenly having a Playboy type modeling career, especially if the same GF was so offended by a hypothetical sex tape that was neither made, nor distributed. It's different to you, but I can see how it wouldn't be to him. I'd also caution anyone who was modeling "on the side" from doing anything too Playboy-esque. I don't know what you want your actual career to be, but that stuff follows you, especially in this internet era. In my field, it'd be grounds for ethical misconduct and you could be kept from getting work. Sure, it's your body, and you can do what you want, but if we're talking C-level Playboy-esque stuff as a hobby, is it really worth it? Besides, none of that stuff is "artistically done" IMO, so I'm not sure what you were referring to.

 

Artistically done nudity rarely LOOKS like it's about the nudity. And it's usually very high fashion. If that's the stuff you're thinking about, I'd suggest showing it to him. He's likely thinking more Playboy than Italian Vogue. And does he have a problem with swimsuits or lingerie? That stuff is more common and commercial -- again, depending on your field, I'd be careful with it since this is all just a hobby to you. Always think of your longterm career first. I don't think there's anything wrong with swimsuit modeling (actually, I have some catalog shots of me in swimwear from my teens, but it was a pretty fresh-faced look; not sexy) or even lingerie modeling, but erring too far towards sexy really can haunt you later. Those pictures never go away. Of course, it all depends on the companies you work for, the spreads you have, etc, etc. But if it's just "a hobby" I'd always err on the side of safety. YMMV.

 

At any rate, I'd actually bust out some magazines and go over what he really finds objectionable. He might surprise you with where the line actually is.

[tigressA]

I say go for it, but keep in mind how difficult of an industry it is to succeed in. Be prepared for rejection because every model gets rejected, a lot. Even if it doesn’t work out, you’ll have fun and be glad you tried. I think you'd have a lot of regret if you gave up trying to do something you've always wanted to do (and this something isn't unreasonable) because a BF was uncomfortable.

 

Do you think once your BF sees the photos or comes on a shoot with you that he'll see how benign and professional it all really is? Right now it seems like he has an inaccurate image of what modeling entails and he’s worrying about something he doesn't really have correct knowledge of.

 

Perhaps he would feel better about it if he accompanied me at least once. I'll invite him to come to the meeting I have this weekend.

 

EH, there isn't such a bright line. There are plenty of models who do both fashion and nude. There's more a bright line between high-fashion and what is known as commercial--like men's magazines and calendars, etc. High-fashion nudes are more...conceptual? Not sure if that's the right word. Commercial nudes are blatantly over-sexed, like Maxim and Playboy. Obviously, I wouldn't want to do the latter.

[pandagirl]

Sorry, but I don't see what the big deal is here?

 

Tigress wants to pursue a life-long dream of modeling -- why shouldn't she take the opportunity? I don't think it is a good idea to do nude photos, but at her age, there is a lot of opportunity for work that makes decent money (catalog work, etc.).

[zengirl]

Sorry, but I don't see what the big deal is here?

 

Tigress wants to pursue a life-long dream of modeling -- why shouldn't she take the opportunity? I don't think it is a good idea to do nude photos, but at her age, there is a lot of opportunity for work that makes decent money (catalog work, etc.).

 

Oh, yes! Catalog is still very likely at her age, and that stuff is rarely nude or skimpy. I just don't understand why she's worrying about the nudity at all. If she's not going to do Playboy-esque stuff, it's very unlikely much nudity will even come up. She's more in the "catalog" (and more commercial) range than the artsy nude stuff, which is almost all high fashion and much more difficult to get, particularly if you've got any strikes against you re: age or height or whatever. Catalog work is what I'd be going after if I was her, and that stuff is very PG usually (depends on the catalog, I suppose) AND generally pays better.

[EasyHeart]

EH, there isn't such a bright line. There are plenty of models who do both fashion and nude. There's more a bright line between high-fashion and what is known as commercial--like men's magazines and calendars, etc. High-fashion nudes are more...conceptual? Not sure if that's the right word. Commercial nudes are blatantly over-sexed, like Maxim and Playboy. Obviously, I wouldn't want to do the latter.

Okey dokey. My info is all second-hand through my ex, and I don't think there was a lot of pressure for her to take off her top for the Kohl's Juniors Back-to-School circular.

 

BTW, after the modeling-thing petered out, my ex ended up moving into the buying side and now works for a (very) high-end clothing store. She gets to go to NYC all the time and Europe a couple times a year and totally loves her work.

[sm1tten]

I can understand why he'd be uncomfortable, both in light of the previous conversation regarding the sex tape and the fact that your boyfriend seems more conservative than you. I don't know what the tone of your conversation with him about this was like, but what I got was that you basically told him that this is what you were possibly going to do and here's how he might deal with it. Is that correct? Because I'm wondering what you would do if he said, no way absolutely not. It's a sticky situation. Maybe he just needs time to wrap his head around it, too.

 

Also, I modeled when I was younger, but I'm too short for runway so stuck to commercial. I never took off my clothes. My experience was that there was a line between nude and not-nude as well as editorial and commercial. It's extremely difficult to cross the line. And once you have nudes in your book, no matter how classy or artistic they are, you get a bit branded.

[Star Gazer]

I'm a teeny bit suspicious of whomever wants to be taking these nude/skimpy photos of TA to begin with. I guess I'm a little worried that someone is trying to take advantage of her "dream" and the fact that she needs money. She's "old" for the type of modeling that would involve overly skimpy and/or nude work, as zengirl says. Catalog, on the other hand, she can do for forever and ever, and will not involve those types of photos.

[tigressA]

I'm a teeny bit suspicious of whomever wants to be taking these nude/skimpy photos of TA to begin with. I guess I'm a little worried that someone is trying to take advantage of her "dream" and the fact that she needs money. She's "old" for the type of modeling that would involve overly skimpy and/or nude work, as zengirl says. Catalog, on the other hand, she can do for forever and ever, and will not involve those types of photos.

 

Being taken advantage of is not likely for me. I may be a newbie, but I'm not totally naive. While I had to be tipped off to the fact that having nude pics in a starter portfolio isn't the best idea regardless of the 'look' as it's not required in order to appear versatile (I had the idea that it was ), it's not like I'm going into this blind. I have asked each photographer I'm meeting with, and will ask every future one, for references. I am not saying up-front that I'm willing to shoot nude, as I know if I did the wolves would be circling and that's all I would ever be asked to do. And I would never let someone persuade me into doing something I'm not comfortable with. I was actually offered a paid assignment from a photographer with numerous reliable references and links to his past work, but his overall portfolio, while striking, makes me feel uncomfortable--so I declined. I also am not letting any of these photographers in on my financial situation, so they have no idea if I 'need' money or not.

[Star Gazer]

Being taken advantage of is not likely for me. I may be a newbie, but I'm not totally naive. While I had to be tipped off to the fact that having nude pics in a starter portfolio isn't the best idea regardless of the 'look' as it's not required in order to appear versatile (I had the idea that it was ), it's not like I'm going into this blind. I have asked each photographer I'm meeting with, and will ask every future one, for references.

 

But would a reputable photographer even suggest this for you? And you would have believed it was necessary, had you not posted here... so I don't think you're not as naive about all of this as you think.

[zengirl]

Being taken advantage of is not likely for me. I may be a newbie, but I'm not totally naive. While I had to be tipped off to the fact that having nude pics in a starter portfolio isn't the best idea regardless of the 'look' as it's not required in order to appear versatile (I had the idea that it was ), it's not like I'm going into this blind. I have asked each photographer I'm meeting with, and will ask every future one, for references. I am not saying up-front that I'm willing to shoot nude, as I know if I did the wolves would be circling and that's all I would ever be asked to do. And I would never let someone persuade me into doing something I'm not comfortable with. I was actually offered a paid assignment from a photographer with numerous reliable references and links to his past work, but his overall portfolio, while striking, makes me feel uncomfortable--so I declined. I also am not letting any of these photographers in on my financial situation, so they have no idea if I 'need' money or not.

 

People who are otherwise not naive get taken advantage of in this particular business all the time. I wouldn't pish-posh the idea so lightly. Even having a fair amount of experience in the field, I would go in thinking I could easily be swindled. So the idea that you could never ever be taken advantage of IS kind of naive. I'm not saying go in thinking everyone is a predatory jerk, but it is a pretty predatory industry overall.

 

And as EH said about his ex's Kohls catalog work, you're not going to feel pressured to take your clothes off in most situations where you're working if you've ruled out plain old nudie magazine work. I mean, if a big name designer plucks you out of obscurity to do a spread for Italian Vogue, but it requires a bit of tasteful nudity, why not worry about it then? Most of the suitable work out there for you will involve wearing clothes.

[dispatch3d]

no clearcut answer here. I'd say seek to understand the things about nude photographs he's nervous/uneasy about. Don't criticize just gather information. Once you're done with that explain your view about it, then see if there's some kind of middle ground.

 

This is easily one of those things where two people may not totally come to an agreement, so I'd be careful. Your relationship>nude photos, in the end, in my opinion at least....

[tigressA]

Maybe I'm upset because BF assumes I'll be taken advantage of, which in my mind also assumes that I'm excessively naive and/or dumb, which is offensive. And he didn't seem all that excited for me to begin with--and I didn't bring the possibility of nude/scantily-clad pictures up at the same time I told him about me getting into modeling.

 

I guess the real issue is that he doesn't seem to be that happy for me in general. It's upsetting because 'Hey, I finally found something I like to do, that I've wanted to do for years, and could be doing a lot of, and...you're not that excited for me.' He said he'd support me in whatever I wanted to do if I was passionate about it, but his initial and subsequent reactions did not signal support. That's really what the issue is here.

[zengirl]

Maybe I'm upset because BF assumes I'll be taken advantage of, which in my mind also assumes that I'm excessively naive and/or dumb, which is offensive. And he didn't seem all that excited for me to begin with--and I didn't bring the possibility of nude/scantily-clad pictures up at the same time I told him about me getting into modeling.

 

I guess the real issue is that he doesn't seem to be that happy for me in general. It's upsetting because 'Hey, I finally found something I like to do, that I've wanted to do for years, and could be doing a lot of, and...you're not that excited for me.' He said he'd support me in whatever I wanted to do if I was passionate about it, but his initial and subsequent reactions did not signal support. That's really what the issue is here.

 

Okay, well that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

But it all seems a bit mixed up to me, tigressA. I really (personally) don't understand having fights or dissonance in a relationship over hypotheticals (it's like lying to your brain! -- 30 Rock). So I guess for me, it's like, "why are you arguing about hypothetical artistic nudity that will likely never come up? And yes doing nudity for unbooked work seems like a bad idea. So just. . . don't do it. Problem: solved."

 

But you are angry about both assumptions and feeling unsupported. The best way to approach that is to tell your partner you feel he's not excited for you, but also be prepared to listen to his side. Being taken advantage of does not = he thinks you're an idiot. That's your perception----and you kind of showed us a mini version of that skewed perception with Star Gazer here, who never seemed to imply you were idiotic or stupid, IMO, and you wrote back with something that seemed like she had called you such. Instead, she just suggested maybe getting to know the industry a bit better (which after seeing the things you learned, even just in this thread, from some very limited information from strangers on the internet is perhaps a reasonable thing to say). Not knowing something or potentially having a vulnerability to creeps out there (who are very good at being creepy sometimes, frankly) does not = you are a lesser person somehow. Perhaps that's your own issue you need to work through?

 

Unless your BF really is condescending or something. I don't know him, so I couldn't say.

[tigressA]

Okay, well that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

But it all seems a bit mixed up to me, tigressA. I really (personally) don't understand having fights or dissonance in a relationship over hypotheticals (it's like lying to your brain! -- 30 Rock). So I guess for me, it's like, "why are you arguing about hypothetical artistic nudity that will likely never come up? And yes doing nudity for unbooked work seems like a bad idea. So just. . . don't do it. Problem: solved."

 

But you are angry about both assumptions and feeling unsupported. The best way to approach that is to tell your partner you feel he's not excited for you, but also be prepared to listen to his side. Being taken advantage of does not = he thinks you're an idiot. That's your perception----and you kind of showed us a mini version of that skewed perception with Star Gazer here, who never seemed to imply you were idiotic or stupid, IMO, and you wrote back with something that seemed like she had called you such. Instead, she just suggested maybe getting to know the industry a bit better (which after seeing the things you learned, even just in this thread, from some very limited information from strangers on the internet is perhaps a reasonable thing to say). Not knowing something or potentially having a vulnerability to creeps out there (who are very good at being creepy sometimes, frankly) does not = you are a lesser person somehow. Perhaps that's your own issue you need to work through?

 

Unless your BF really is condescending or something. I don't know him, so I couldn't say.

 

It actually did come up already--but I turned it down because the guy's portfolio made me uncomfortable. I mentioned it in an earlier post. It was a paid assignment, artistic, a percentage of sales of the images, he had numerous references that I checked--but I turned it down because I didn't like the overall themes. That was a big reason why I brought it up. I had already had a legit offer like that, so there could be others that come in that I may feel comfortable doing.

 

And yes, he can be condescending at times, which annoys me. I call him on it. I think it's the age difference.

Edited August 1, 2011 by tigressA

[zengirl]

It actually did come up already--but I turned it down because the guy's portfolio made me uncomfortable. I mentioned it in an earlier post. It was a paid assignment, artistic, a percentage of sales of the images, he had numerous references that I checked--but I turned it down because I didn't like the overall themes. That was a big reason why I brought it up. I had already had a legit offer like that, so there could be others that come in that I may feel comfortable doing.

 

And yes, he can be condescending at times, which annoys me. I call him on it. I think it's the age difference.

 

Well, if you felt uncomfortable doing that one, what makes you think it's bad that your BF essentially felt the same? Why not wait till there is one you feel comfortable about before making it an issue?

 

I have no tolerance for condescension, so I feel your paint there. But I would consider whether it happens to be a particular sensitivity or "button" you have that is being pushed. This definitely reminds me of the sex tape fight. It's once again a fight over something that really doesn't actually matter in the scheme of things, since it's hypothetical, and is likely more about something else going on in the relationship.

 

P.S. The description of the job you described sounds sketchy to me. But I don't have all the information.

[tigressA]

Well, if you felt uncomfortable doing that one, what makes you think it's bad that your BF essentially felt the same? Why not wait till there is one you feel comfortable about before making it an issue?

 

I have no tolerance for condescension, so I feel your paint there. But I would consider whether it happens to be a particular sensitivity or "button" you have that is being pushed. This definitely reminds me of the sex tape fight. It's once again a fight over something that really doesn't actually matter in the scheme of things, since it's hypothetical, and is likely more about something else going on in the relationship.

 

P.S. The description of the job you described sounds sketchy to me. But I don't have all the information.

 

It wasn't sketchy--again, it was legit as far as compensation and whatnot, as I checked the references; past models said he was very professional, etc. And his work was nice--rather striking, something that I can appreciate as art, but not something that jives with me personally. I guess what was going through my head was that if I already got a decently paid offer, then it's likely there will be others that would jive with me, that I would be willing to do. But really, it's more that he doesn't seem happy for me, period.

[zengirl]

It wasn't sketchy--again, it was legit as far as compensation and whatnot, as I checked the references; past models said he was very professional, etc. And his work was nice--rather striking, something that I can appreciate as art, but not something that jives with me personally. I guess what was going through my head was that if I already got a decently paid offer, then it's likely there will be others that would jive with me, that I would be willing to do. But really, it's more that he doesn't seem happy for me, period.

 

Well, then talk to him about that. THAT seems like a more important discussion to be had than under what circumstances you'll let someone take a picture of the curvature of your ass, right?

 

Ask him how he feels about the modeling IN GENERAL. And respond to what he says and express what you feel and let him know how you're feeling (in non-confrontational language, of course) about this and how you're feeling. It could just be a communication issue, or it could be something deeper, but it's definitely worth discussing.

[tigressA]

Well, then talk to him about that. THAT seems like a more important discussion to be had than under what circumstances you'll let someone take a picture of the curvature of your ass, right?

 

Ask him how he feels about the modeling IN GENERAL. And respond to what he says and express what you feel and let him know how you're feeling (in non-confrontational language, of course) about this and how you're feeling. It could just be a communication issue, or it could be something deeper, but it's definitely worth discussing.

 

Yeah, I'd definitely like to know why he's feeling this way...it just upsets me because I feel like he's being a hypocrite. Like I said, he said he'd be happy for me and support me in whatever I chose to do if I'm passionate about it (within reason, if anyone posts like 'Well how do you think he would feel if you said you're passionate about killing puppies?' or something equally ridiculous I will laugh at you), and now that I have found something, he isn't exactly happy or supportive.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, I might be way off base and please don't think I am in support of any kind of bias, cultural or otherwise. But, they do exist and can be a big part of a person and how that person views all the world.

 

Is he Indian?

 

I am not knowledgeable about Indian culture, but there might be some onus against someone's wife or girlfriend "displaying" her body for profit.

 

Could that be the case?

 

As I said, I don't know about Indian culture. Many years ago, though, I spent a lot of time in Italy and had a serious relationship with a young man there. He actually believed that a guy would not be out of line if he slapped his wife / girlfriend ... for applying lipstick in public! And other such things.

 

(We did not really get along very well! )

 

Anyway, just suggesting that there might be more behind his attitude than simply being unsupportive.

 

Also ... what is it about "modeling" that makes you feel that it could be a "passion" for you? I am not judging this - I don't think it's negative, in any case - but could it be a desire for a lot of attention; to have many people looking at and admiring you? This pursuit in an SO could make some partners uncomfortable, regardless of their cultural background.

[JohnnyCage]

It's always funny reading TigressA's threads because they are just so full of selfishness and arrogance. I agree with thatone that her BF needs a backbone.

 

Her BF is from India. Totally different culture. People over there frown when they see a woman smoking. You go to swimming pools and 9/10 women will not be wearing a swimsuit. So I totally understand his concerns about modelling. It's already a lot for him to probably explain his family back home that he is not going to get married because he is with her. Even if they do accept her imagine the horror when they see provocative pics of her.

 

SELFISH. Is TigressA selfish? Yes. She fights with him over every simple thing that you can think about. And I believe that if it wasn't her financial situation this poor guy would have been dumped a very long time ago. She even said one time that if things don't work out the way she wants then she will dump him in a flash and that it would be "NO BIG DEAL".

 

Relationships/love is about respecting each other. Tomorrow you will say that you want to be a porn star and that it was your dream and it pays well. Like someone above said that artistic nudity is no different from playboy nudity. The white people who made the distinction between these 2 have both hands in their pockets.

 

Do him a favor and please dump him because he certainly doesn't have the balls to do it himself.

[Star Gazer]

Yeah, I'd definitely like to know why he's feeling this way...it just upsets me because I feel like he's being a hypocrite.

 

I actually kinda feel like you're the one being a hypocrite.

 

When posed with a hypothetical, you were FURIOUS that he would sell sexy images of you.

 

But at first blush, you were willing to sell sexy images of yourself to...who? A modeling agency? For truly public consumption?

[tigressA]

And about the 'tables turning'--that was about a sex tape and only about a sex tape. Not nude photos. I see a big difference between a posed, tasteful nude photo that I agreed to taking and a video of me engaging in sexual acts. I have no problem with nudity, but I see engaging in sex as something I wouldn't want to share with anyone outside my relationship. That is my personal view. If you want to call me a hypocrite, that's fine. This is the first and last time I am going to defend my viewpoint.

 

For your reading pleasure, SG, and anyone else who may be posting in this thread. That was one of my posts on the first page.

[zengirl]

Her BF is from India. Totally different culture. People over there frown when they see a woman smoking. You go to swimming pools and 9/10 women will not be wearing a swimsuit. So I totally understand his concerns about modelling. It's already a lot for him to probably explain his family back home that he is not going to get married because he is with her. Even if they do accept her imagine the horror when they see provocative pics of her.

 

This is actually a really good point. I definitely believe in being culturally sensitive if you're dating someone from a different culture. I don't know how traditionally Indian this guy is, but I really think you have to be a bit more careful in discussing anything that gets blurry along cultural lines. Not that you don't discuss it, but I wouldn't get upset that he sees it as scandalous if he was socialized to believe it IS scandalous by his very culture.

 

I wasn't completely sure if this was still the Indian guy or not, so I didn't mention it, but it is totally a valid point.

 

At any rate, tigressA should be talking to her BF about this, not trying to figure out who's "right" or "wrong." It's not really about right and wrong. . . it's about communicating and finding out what each other are really thinking and if the aspirations and her relationship can mesh. We all have to make compromises in life, all over the place, but they have to be of our own choosing for them to be healthy.