silvah Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Hi folks, I posted on here last year and found it tremendously helpful so I'm coming back to you all for some wisdom. Sorry this is a bit long... I hope you can get through all of my tale of woe! My hubby and I got married nearly 7 years ago. He has always refused to be open about his financial matters. We have always had seperate bank accounts, and despite me asking he has never given me the log-in details to anything. I thought it was 'just one of those things' and perhaps I was being too demanding and it was normal for somebody to be private like that, until my gut started to tell me there was something wrong. I would hear the post fall onto the doormat, then I would hear him retrieve it, run upstairs and then I would hear the shredder going. I asked him if there was anything wrong and he told me everything was fine. I don't feel too good about this, but one day my anxiety got the better of me and I pieced together some of the papers from the shredder. It was endless credit card statements - $10,000 here, $8,000 there, $15,000 there. I felt sick to my stomach and confronted him about it. He admitted to me that he had $40,000 in credit card debt when we got married and he was scared to tell me because he thought I would leave him. Immediately I went into 'panic and rescue' mode. Don't worry I said, it's ok, let's make a plan to pay it all off and then we will be ok and we can start afresh. After many weeks of wrangling and arguing, we agreed that I would take over the finances and give him an allowance. I felt relieved to be in control of the situation and have a challenge we could tackle together. Over the next few years, we managed to pay off about $20,000. We got a $60,000 inheritance which I was excited about as it meant that we would be DEBT FREE! But it just sort of disappeared into thin air and he had no explanation for me as to where it had gone. The paying off continued, but the numbers never made sense and more credit card debts seemed to appear willy-nilly. We applied for a mortgage, and hubby put down on the mortgage application form that we were $30,000 in debt but we would pay it off when the mortgage came through. I was overjoyed - the end was in sight at last. But we didn't pay it off. I tried to deny what had happened as the reality of my situation was too awful to contemplate. I focussed on paying everything off - at least, if the mortgage company investigated once we'd paid it all off, everything would look like it was in order. Then, last year I was over the moon to see that we only had $3,000 to go. I was so excited that finally we would be ok. But my gut was still telling me that something wasn't right. My suspicions were confirmed when I caught hubby hiding an envelope from me. He was evasive when I asked him about what was in it. After much cajoling, he admitted that it was another $8,000 credit card statement. I was devastated and furious. I immediately left the house, and I'm not too proud of this, but that night I went out with a man from work and got rather drunk (for the first time in my life believe it or not) and told him what had happened. I feel awful about this, but it led to a long cuddle, and he wanted us to spend the night together. I considered it and then said no. Then, a few weeks later, I began to ask hubby for more information - was there anything else I should know about? - and he admitted that over the last year, he'd run up $30,000 more debt while I was trying to pay everything off. I demanded we go to MC, which we have been doing for the last month. He still won't tell me where all the money has gone, and refuses to allay my fears about the mortgage fraud by getting serious about what we could do to make things safe. (Taking legal advice, etc.) I am terrified - if we got found out and taken to court, I could lose everything (I would no longer be able to run my business as I have done for the last 10 years) and possibly face prison. I have had to face the truth that my hubby has a serious spending addiction. He likes to think it is not an addiction but a compulsion - whatever the difference is, it is apparently important to him. He has said that if I talk about what we discuss in MC, he will stop going, so I can't reveal any details here. We have discussed him going to 12 step groups or a month's rehab program. He seems reluctant to do either, but he has told me that he will decide what to do and let me know what he will commit to, in 2 days time. I am so scared and angry. I can't bear to be around him alone and it makes my skin crawl when he tries to touch me. He has said that if we aren't physically intimate on a regular basis he will end up trying to satisfy himself by other means and it could be the end of our marriage. This really hurts, as I have a much higher sex drive than he does (10 times a week vs 2 times a month), and for the last 7 years it had been me struggling with temptation and trying to resist, while he didn't seem so bothered about trying to address the problem. Right now I feel like I don't want to be married any more, but I'm scared about what it would do to him if I told him I was leaving. I don't think I love him any more, but I am not sure if that is resentment and anger clouding my feelings. What do you think I should do? Grateful for any advice, thoughts or comments. Thanks everybody.
carhill Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Assuming you reside in the US and file a joint tax return, you have sufficient personal information to run a credit report on him and the details will include all his debts and creditors, presuming they report to the credit reporting companies. A tri-merge would probably be best. Since your finances are separate, it would be worth getting some legal advice on an appropriate safety strategy. My exW and I had separate finances and businesses, and settling everything up in the D, it being amicable, was easy. The only joint account I opened was to buy her a home as part of plan B in case things went sideways and she became uncooperative. I'd suggest doing a baseline financial analysis of what you do know about, net worth and debt/income ratio, and then add in the results of a tri-merge and get legal advice on next steps. FWIW, even though exW and I had separate finances, we were always open about the details, like books, passwords, documents, etc. Pretty normal married stuff. Your situation sounds outside of what I would call 'normal'. Good luck
Mz. Pixie Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I guess I'm a bit confused how you could committ mortgage fraud if all of the debt is in his social security number? Surely the mortgage company will uncover the debt when a credit report is pulled? To be honest after doing mortgages for a living for ages people are rarely accurate on how much debt they are in to start with most of the time. You don't mention it but what does he have to show for this money that he has spent? Clothes, toys, what? I am just confused as to how he could hide that many purchases from you unless it is drugs or hookers. He has to have something to show for it. The inheritance issue? You should have locked that money down and wrote the checks yourself on that or better yet took your half and put it back for yourself instead of letting him have control of all of that. I think you have turned a blind eye to this problem for way too long. Even after you knew he had issues you let him have control of that money? Not smart. I rarely just throw out divorce to someone quickly but in your situation I have to say that if he didn't straighten up quickly I would be gone. I would make sure I didn't have responsibility for any of the debt that he owes now and I would get out and support myself without him. He has a serious problem and you are the only one trying to fix things. You're supporting yourself anyway now.
carhill Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Oh, forgot....run a tri-merge on yourself to see if he's got any debt in your name under your ID/SS #. Example: Even though my exW and my credit were completely separate, we shared authorized signer privileges on a couple credit cards so those cards showed up on both accounts. On a consumer report, it appeared to be joint credit but I could make out the signer delineation coding on the commercial reports. Regardless, it's good information to know about. A lot happens during a long marriage.
NoReallyThatHappened Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 All I can say is that it happens to other people too. It happened to me. Granted the financial "misdeeds" were only the tip of my iceberg. Sadly the only explanation for where the money was going in my case was prostitutes. Anyway. I suggest stalking the mail and running a credit check. There are three companies, so don't forget to get a report from all three as things vary from report to report sometimes.
Author silvah Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 Assuming you reside in the US and file a joint tax return, you have sufficient personal information to run a credit report on him and the details will include all his debts and creditors, presuming they report to the credit reporting companies. A tri-merge would probably be best. Actually, I'm in the UK. I quoted in dollar amounts as I expect the vast majority of readers here to be from the US. Since your finances are separate, it would be worth getting some legal advice on an appropriate safety strategy. That's a really good idea. I think I'll do that this week. I'd suggest doing a baseline financial analysis of what you do know about, net worth and debt/income ratio, and then add in the results of a tri-merge and get legal advice on next steps. In terms of divorce or safety? I must admit I am pretty scared by the thought of divorce and how horrible it could get, especially if he doesn't really want out and wants to exact revenge through the divorce process. FWIW, even though exW and I had separate finances, we were always open about the details, like books, passwords, documents, etc. Pretty normal married stuff. Your situation sounds outside of what I would call 'normal'. Good luck That's really helpful to know. He's convinced me for so long that this is an appropriate way to run things, I started to believe it. (Despite having promised 'All that I am, I share with you. All that I have, I give to you.') I feel like he's broken our vows by living this way.
Author silvah Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 I guess I'm a bit confused how you could committ mortgage fraud if all of the debt is in his social security number? Surely the mortgage company will uncover the debt when a credit report is pulled? To be honest after doing mortgages for a living for ages people are rarely accurate on how much debt they are in to start with most of the time. I don't know if it works the same in the UK, but if the mortgage company would prosecute only him because the debt is all in his name, then that would be an amazing relief to me. It was a really clever fraud, though, because he declared the debt (at least, as far as I could tell - I don't know if he had more at that stage) and then ticked the box saying it would all be paid off when the mortgage payment came through. I don't think mortgage companies run credit checks before and a month after the mortgage payment is released, so that's how he got away with it. You don't mention it but what does he have to show for this money that he has spent? Clothes, toys, what? I am just confused as to how he could hide that many purchases from you unless it is drugs or hookers. He has to have something to show for it. Yeah, that's what's been bothering me. He buys a LOT of clothes and gadgets and says that's all he's spent the money on. One of my friends assures me that you can get through £1,500 of clothes a month quite easily, but I just don't know. (I'm quite the minimalist myself, ironically.) Why would he refuse to show me his statements if that's all there is? I'd believe him if he weren't still so secretive. I rarely just throw out divorce to someone quickly but in your situation I have to say that if he didn't straighten up quickly I would be gone. I would make sure I didn't have responsibility for any of the debt that he owes now and I would get out and support myself without him. He has a serious problem and you are the only one trying to fix things. You're supporting yourself anyway now. Wow - that's helpful, thank you. I think it's last chance saloon for him, for sure. I think I will need a lot of emotional strength to stick to my boundaries on this one.
Mz. Pixie Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 I am not sure how it works in the UK but in the United States when you apply for a mortgage if you cannot afford the mortgage and the debt payments then they require receipts to prove that the debts are paid off before they will approve the loan. Otherwise they consider it in with the approval and if you can afford both the mortgage and debt payments you get approved. They don't "trust" you to payoff anything. Especially if your debt ratio is high- ie the percentage of your debt payments vs the amount that you bring in each month. So, in the US it wouldn't be considered loan fraud not to pay it off because they wouldn't never accept your word that you would in the first place-if it had to be paid off for you to afford the payment they would make sure it was-if not you wouldn't qualify for the mortgage. Make sense? Ask him if he would submit to a drug test to prove he is not using illegal drugs or an STD test. If he agrees go with him to make sure he does it. His reaction to your asking will tell you alot.
Star Gazer Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 It sounds like he may have a gambling problem...?
Author silvah Posted August 5, 2011 Author Posted August 5, 2011 Update: after a lot of excuses and fidgeting, I finally persuaded him to give me access to his bank stuff so I can see where all the money has gone. There is a LOT of stuff to wade through, but so far it really is all clothes and gadgets. At least, I can't spot anything else. When I have a bit more energy I think I'm going to dig a bit further and see if there's anything dodgier, but at least the last year checks out alright, and I would have thought most dodgy stuff would show up if I went only a few months back. Just need to get some legal advice now about how to protect myself in terms of the fraud stuff. In the meantime he is moving out for a few weeks, as I realised while looking at the bank statement stuff that he'd incurred $1500 more debt in the last month and I have told him that this would be the consequence if he did. It feels good to stand up for myself. I feel strangely calm about it and happy about not having to deal with him being around for a while. Thanks for your support... will try and offer another update once I've spoken to a lawyer.
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