Author torn_curtain Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Well, it's pretty weird to say you love someone like a brother if you're sleeping with him. And it's DEFINITELY not platonic love, as you said before. The word platonic has a distinct meaning. I'm definitely not wired to love someone like a brother and sleep with them. That sounds kinda of gross to me. Face palm. I feel like you are being pedantic and missing the essence. It's really hard to have fruitful discussions with people who do this because it's like there is an element of emotional intelligence entirely missing. I WILL TAKE WHAT YOU SAID LITERALLY. YOU MUST BE CALCULATED AS A ROBOT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH ME OR I WILL POINT OUT THE TWO WORDS THAT MADE LITTLE SENSE. MAKE SURE YOUR ARGUMENT IS BULLET PROOF. EMOTION IS WEAK. Lol. This is one of the reasons I get along so well with the guy I'm seeing--although we're both very rational we also speak the same emotional language and have strongly intuitive sides that mesh. This is my last try at explaining this. Here goes... Of course I'm not saying it's exactly like familial love--OBVIOUSLY that would be creepy--but it has more in common with familial love than romantic love. You care about the other person deeply and would be devastated if anything bad happened to them but you don't want to intensely bond with them or be with them all the time. You know? That's the best I can explain it. Maybe your emotional palette is just more limited than mine. Edited August 1, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 You care about the other person deeply and would be devastated if anything bad happened to them but you don't want to intensely bond with them or be with them all the time. That's the best I can explain it. Maybe your emotional palette is just more limited than mine. Well, I don't see your need to be all snippy. I only repeated what you said. You compared it to both familial and platonic love. I said why I didn't think that fit. The rest of it, I actually ALSO addressed. And you keep stating my points for me, frankly, but have an opposite view (more on that later). At any rate: This description sounds like a friend to me. And people can have sex with their friends (it ceases being platonic, of course) in this day and age, I suppose. It's not something I like to do, but I don't mind that others do. At any rate, it's a poor basis for a relationship period. And anyone who has repeatedly been held in that state for any length of time --- that's fine at the beginning of a relationship or for a STR, but for something to be a LTR it should require more IMO --- would yes, be someone I'd want to stay away from. They clearly have attachment issues and will stay with someone just to be with someone, even though they realize it's wrong for them (they're not in love). That's why they get confused about "love." I don't believe I have a limited emotional palette. I believe you're trying to tell me my view of such a person is "wrong" but you just keep validating exactly what was my point to begin with: such a person is not (yet) emotionally trustworthy, whether it's because of youth and still getting to know themselves or because they have issues such as denial, attachment, staying in the wrong relationships too long when they were never in love, etc. These are all signs of emotional unavailability and yes all red flags. Not every red flag = a problem, but they're definitely worth noting.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 I think it's a red flag and I think you should change the locks on your doors. But seriously, this guy: is he "serious about you"? That is: what is he doing, and what are you both doing together, that would cause you to either believe or doubt his sincerity? I think there are more concrete things to worry about than one's interpretation of their own history. I don't think it's uncommon to feel, in your mid-20s, that you've yet to actualize. No he is definitely quite serious about me and I never doubt his sincerity. It's just not a type of history I've seen before and it makes me wonder but I am keeping an open mind.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 At any rate, it's a poor basis for a relationship period. I feel like we are talking in circles here. Of course that type of relationship dynamic is unhealthy. I didn't deny that. And anyone who has repeatedly been held in that state for any length of time --- that's fine at the beginning of a relationship or for a STR, but for something to be a LTR it should require more IMO --- would yes, be someone I'd want to stay away from. They clearly have attachment issues and will stay with someone just to be with someone, even though they realize it's wrong for them (they're not in love). That's why they get confused about "love." Or they are just very young and inexperienced like I was. I don't believe I have a limited emotional palette. I believe you're trying to tell me my view of such a person is "wrong" but you just keep validating exactly what was my point to begin with: such a person is not (yet) emotionally trustworthy, whether it's because of youth and still getting to know themselves or because they have issues such as denial, attachment, staying in the wrong relationships too long when they were never in love, etc. These are all signs of emotional unavailability and yes all red flags. Not every red flag = a problem, but they're definitely worth noting. No--I actually agree with you that somebody who feels that way is either young or has issues or both. What I disagree with is the idea that it's not possible to be attracted to someone and love them in a non romantic way. Whether or not that dynamic is healthy--it's not--it does happen and often. Sometimes it also happens near the end of the relationship when romantic feelings die because of incompatibilities but the caring and shared history are left. So yes, I think it's quite possible to be "love but not be in love" with somebody. That doesn't mean it's a good thing but it happens. The reason I said your emotional palette might be limited is because you seem to be confused about the type of feeling I'm describing and unaware of how common it is in unhealthy relationships.
zengirl Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 No--I actually agree with you that somebody who feels that way is either young or has issues or both. What I disagree with is the idea that it's not possible to be attracted to someone and love them in a non romantic way. You can love them in a friendly way. You compared it to platonic or familial before. Hence the confusion. Since I don't know you, I have no reason to think you mean something other than what you say---that doesn't make me a robot. It makes me someone who's reading what you write and assuming you mean the words you're using. At any rate, I love my friends. And not romantically. Personally, I don't sleep with my friends, but some people do. However, if someone has a LTR that is essentially that dynamic (friends + sex - relationship compatibility and love) --- I find it unhealthy and I wonder WTF was going on with them and has it been corrected? As far as the ebb and flow of "love", if I loved someone romantically at one point, I don't go around pinpointing how I feel about them every moment. It doesn't really matter. I loved them. If the feeling ebbed, it did. ALL feelings ebb and flow. Trying to maintain a feeling is impossible. (I said that ages ago, though, I think.) But why deny the moment where you felt it? It is no less true because it's gone. Of course, people often fall out of love and break up. I don't find that an unhealthy dynamic, unless they rewrite it to say, "I was never really in love."
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 The concept of "falling for" can change over one's life. I don't think it's a concern if, because of meeting you and experiencing what you share as your relationship develops, he's awakened to the idea that he has not really "fallen for" anyone else, so far, in his life. If your relationship does not last forever, no matter how deep the connection, he could possibly meet another person 10 years from now and perceive that he has never, in fact, "fallen for" anyone before her. When I was in high school, I thought I was in love. Later, I understood that I had not actually been in love in high school. It's a matter of perspective. Unless this is the guy that you are "in love" with whom you haven't met. If a person you've never met believes that an online romance is his first experience with really "falling for" someone, I would definitely put that into blazing crimson flag territory. If it IS this fantasy love, I believe that he is likely pretty committed to his fantasies about love. Those are difficult to realize when flesh and blood human beings are involved. He certainly might be capable of loving you or someone else in person, but I would not be comfortable with the idea that he believes that his first real love happened online, when he has actually had live experiences already.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) Unless this is the guy that you are "in love" with whom you haven't met. If a person you've never met believes that an online romance is his first experience with really "falling for" someone, I would definitely put that into blazing crimson flag territory. If it IS this fantasy love, I believe that he is likely pretty committed to his fantasies about love. Those are difficult to realize when flesh and blood human beings are involved. He certainly might be capable of loving you or someone else in person, but I would not be comfortable with the idea that he believes that his first real love happened online, when he has actually had live experiences already. Yes, this has definitely given me pause and I've mentioned my concerns to him a few times. It IS a real concern and risk--I'm not going to deny that. The worst case scenario is that he's still emotionally unavailable and he's chosen to fall in love with me partly because I'm at a distance. I don't want to sell our connection short. We are freakishly alike and we have bonded intensely over the last few months but I still worry. When I've brought this concern up he's told me he understands where I'm coming from but he totally denies that his feelings will change once we're together. He says his feelings have nothing to do with the distance and it's all about who I am as a person. He's admitted that the distance may have initially allowed him to open up to me more than other people but now that he's emotionally invested he would give things a real shot in person no matter what. I want to believe this is true and I think that it is--but I'm no fool. If it turned out he wasn't emotionally available after we moved our relationship into real life I wouldn't be entirely shocked. I'm throwing myself into this because he feels worth it to me but I'm also going in with eyes wide open. I'm willing to risk heart break and disappointment. I've suffered both before and survived. Edited August 4, 2011 by torn_curtain
threebyfate Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 I want to believe this is true and I think that it is--but I'm no fool. If it turned out he wasn't emotionally available after we moved our relationship into real life I wouldn't be entirely shocked. I'm throwing myself into this because he feels worth it to me but I'm also going in with eyes wide open. I'm willing to risk heart break and disappointment. I've suffered both before and survived. If this is a risk you're willing to take, then the rest is meaningless. As long as your gut instincts aren't warning you about anything, it sounds like it's time to meet in real life. The sooner you do this, the better.
Author torn_curtain Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) If this is a risk you're willing to take, then the rest is meaningless. As long as your gut instincts aren't warning you about anything, it sounds like it's time to meet in real life. The sooner you do this, the better. Yeah, my gut is only full of good things. We won't be able to meet until October because he lives across the country and he's getting a major surgery in a few weeks. Fortunately it's not an especially risky procedure but it has a long recovery. He just found this out about a week ago after getting some medical tests. Edited August 4, 2011 by torn_curtain
Dusk1983 Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 people can have sex with their friends in this day and age, I suppose. It's not something I like to do Of course not. Too emotionally flighty. Unnecessarily complex. Illogical. ...but I don't mind that others do. Out of interest, what would have happen if you did mind?
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