Men that are Dating for Fun?

[zengirl]

What Sanman says makes sense, re: the chase. Most men I know don't love the chase, but most women I know do. (I hate that ****. I just want to have a partner.) It creates the hugest dating incompatibility between men and women, actually, that whole dynamic of courting. And generally means a lot of effort is front-loaded into relationships that will never work out. And then I think inertia just takes over.

 

The sooner women realize that men have no incentive to marry, the better.

 

Just like women want the highest quality man they can get, men want the highest amount of women they can get. I fail to see how one approach is better than the other.

 

I know plenty of men who want to get married.

 

And most men realize quantity is not so grand by the time they're 30. Most men want what Sanman lists, I think. At least most men I know. And, frankly, unless the beauty is movie star looks or something, I think his list --- even the things he'd give up --- is highly reasonable.

 

The thing is, in most cases it's not "Is this girl marriage material?" but rather, "Is this girl someone I would marry?" There's no special box from which marriage material men or women come (relationship/marriage-oriented, yes, is pretty much about that person)---a person might be right for marriage and make a great wife to someone but not with you. Finding someone who is compatible with you is not an easy task.

Edited July 31, 2011 by zengirl

[musemaj11]

I know plenty of men who want to get married.

And so do I.

 

Just like most women dont realize that there is little incentive for marriage for men, many men are also still unaware themselves of that very fact that marriage has little to no benefits for them over long term dating or cohabitation.

 

Getting married is like choosing a phone carrier that forces you to sign a contract when you can choose another carrier that doesnt while both offer the exact same service.

 

What Sanman says makes sense, re: the chase. Most men I know don't love the chase, but most women I know do. (I hate that ****. I just want to have a partner.) It creates the hugest dating incompatibility between men and women, actually, that whole dynamic of courting. And generally means a lot of effort is front-loaded into relationships that will never work out. And then I think inertia just takes over.

I agree with you on this one.

 

Apart from the players who get high through the feeling of conquest, most men just wish they could just fall into a relationship without having to go through the complicated courtship process.

Edited July 31, 2011 by musemaj11

[Ruby Slippers]

I think that at least 80% of people in relationships, men and women, have no intention of marrying the person they're with.

[zengirl]

And so do I.

 

Just like most women dont realize that there is little incentive for marriage for men, many men are also still unaware themselves of that very fact that marriage has little to no benefits for them over long term dating or cohabitation.

 

This is stupid. It's like saying most people who like strawberry ice cream don't know that chocolate is better. It's a preference. The difference, of course, is it's a highly socialized preference. But among people I know small choices are highly socialized as well. My BF, for instance, really likes vanilla stuff---vanilla cake, vanilla ice cream, really boring, plain stuff, but he beats himself up about it. Why? He was socialized to believe it's "boring." I find this very amusing and call him on it all the time.

 

What I have found (through observation) is that longterm cohabitation is rarely the choice of people who would actually cohabitate permanently. Those people, who seek permanence, eventually get married because that's what is considered "permanent" in our society (although it's permanence is far from assured). I don't think it's marriage that MAKES it permanence; it's just that the type of socialization that is pro-permanence and anti-marriage is rare. Most avoidance of marriage is based on fear of failure or an inability to commit to permanence or a feeling that nothing is permanent (which while true, to an extent -- the person is going to die or you are and it will end, even if you stay together -- is a truth we have to force down in order to successfully engage in romance), both of which will ultimately lead to breaking up eventually. It's not that marriage itself magically keeps people together; it's that the kind of people who have the compatibility, stamina and desire to stay together forever ("till death") are eventually going to get married because it's a natural social force. Exceptions would include complete outliers of socialization. The socialization is so strong that even people without the tools to stay together forever get marriage; hence the rash of divorces.

 

But it's like what you say about cell phone plans---the person who plans to stay with one company has no reason to even consider whether or not there is an "out" or penalties for leaving. The person who considers those outs is more likely to be a less loyal brand customer who will leave if things change --- and unlike cell phone service, relationships always have bumpy patches and it's natural. If my cell phone provider had a few bad months, I'd leave them. Why not? If my future husband had a few bad months, I'd like to think I wouldn't. Because I have guaranteed him permanence. Within reason, of course. If his few bad months included any signs of abuse, etc, of course, I'd leave him, but if you're worried about that possibility before it occurs. . . you're not in the right state to commit to anything.

 

I know you're against marriage because you think it's some sort of legal trick. But in most states, longterm cohabitation = common law marriage anyway and the legal ramifications for ending such a union are similar to the legal ramifications for divorce.

 

If I were not having children with a man, I actually could be okay with longterm cohabitation. . . I just wouldn't believe any man really wanted that if he weren't interested in marrying me. Such is the strength of that socialization. I'm even aware of the socialization in myself, and it's so strong that to me, having kids without being married feels disturbing.

Edited July 31, 2011 by zengirl

[Sanman]

Well, I think both you have some good points, but I have always seen marriage as hedging your bets.To me, it is more of what would you do if your phone company offered you a good rate in exchange for a long term contract (which incidentally is why they give away phones cheap and other bonuses for locking you in for a 2 year contract). Like any long term contract, you need to way the options. Will the rates go up if I don't lock them in now (will she leave me)? How happy am I with the service? Is it worth locking this in and forgoing better deals in the future? Everything comes with a risk that you make the wrong decision and there honestly is no right answer without hindsight. If you locked in at the right time, you are happy. If you locked at the wrong time, you are miserable. If you did not lock in, same difference. It all depends on how you are at picking out the right product/service/person.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Sanman

[Casablanca]

I think that at least 80% of people in relationships, men and women, have no intention of marrying the person they're with.

As in they KNOW they don't want to marry them or they don't know yet? Id say that is a high ball park figured...

[Ruby Slippers]

As in they KNOW they don't want to marry them or they don't know yet? Id say that is a high ball park figured...

As in... they either know they don't want to marry them, or are lukewarm about the idea, and hence won't do it. People who "don't know yet" are usually trying to persuade themselves or be persuaded that they might eventually want to marry the person -- and if you get to that point, it's probably not going to happen. Just my opinion.

[Casablanca]

As in... they either know they don't want to marry them, or are lukewarm about the idea, and hence won't do it. People who "don't know yet" are usually trying to persuade themselves or be persuaded that they might eventually want to marry the person -- and if you get to that point, it's probably not going to happen. Just my opinion.

Or they could have just started dating and are still learning about the other person

[Ruby Slippers]

Or they could have just started dating and are still learning about the other person

I said 80% of people in relationships -- not dating. Dating is when you're getting to know them and deciding if you want to have a relationship. I would expect that close to 100% of dating people do not want to get married to someone they hardly know.

[Casablanca]

I said 80% of people in relationships -- not dating. Dating is when you're getting to know them and deciding if you want to have a relationship. I would expect that close to 100% of dating people do not want to get married to someone they hardly know.

Still a blurry, you could say be 3 months in and if you two are exclusive, that in my opinion is a relationship, but still are learning about each other and not sure yet

[ginastar]

if you read the post, the question was...after A YEAR of dating/being in a relationship, would a guy really continue to hang out w/ the girl and date her even if he does not have any intention of marrying her.

[pandagirl]

I'm 33, and my friends are mostly in the 28-33 age range, and for those who are not married but in longish relationships -- 2-6 years -- most of them DON'T know if they want to marry the person they're with.

 

However, the way the OP phrased her question made it seem like doing this meant someone was using the other person. This is not true. In most cases, it simply means that the relationship is pretty good, but also not really great. There isn't that specific feeling of "I want to spend the rest of my life with this person."

 

But it's like, why breakup with someone if you are have have a nice time and really care about each other? I think MANY people have found themselves in this sort of relationship at one point or another.

[sm1tten]

if you read the post, the question was...after A YEAR of dating/being in a relationship, would a guy really continue to hang out w/ the girl and date her even if he does not have any intention of marrying her.

Yes. My ex and I went two years in this manner. For the record, I didn't have any intention of marrying him either.

 

LTR does not equal marriage, marriage-minded, or marriage-end-goal.

[Star Gazer]

I'm 33, and my friends are mostly in the 28-33 age range, and for those who are not married but in longish relationships -- 2-6 years -- most of them DON'T know if they want to marry the person they're with.

 

I have a very different group of friends! But then, I'm primarily talking about women... My female friends in LTRs have made their desire to marry the guy they're with known, not only to their friends, but the guy they're with. Their men have pretty much told them marriage is inevitable...

 

Of the male friends I've had over the years, I was always surprised when they proposed, because up until they did, when talking about their LTR with me, they always said something akin to, "I don't know..."

[zengirl]

I'm 33, and my friends are mostly in the 28-33 age range, and for those who are not married but in longish relationships -- 2-6 years -- most of them DON'T know if they want to marry the person they're with.

 

However, the way the OP phrased her question made it seem like doing this meant someone was using the other person. This is not true. In most cases, it simply means that the relationship is pretty good, but also not really great. There isn't that specific feeling of "I want to spend the rest of my life with this person."

 

But it's like, why breakup with someone if you are have have a nice time and really care about each other? I think MANY people have found themselves in this sort of relationship at one point or another.

 

I agree that this happens, but IME, it generally happens a bit younger. But all depends on the crowd, likely, but this is how most people I know were in their early 20s. They've mostly grown out of it and are either married, engaged, living with someone they intend to married, or looking for the person they want to marry, except those who probably aren't suited for marriage and don't really desire it (it really isn't for everyone!).

 

However, I agree it's likely not sinister. What has likely happened is that people have different priorities.

 

I have a very different group of friends! But then, I'm primarily talking about women... My female friends in LTRs have made their desire to marry the guy they're with known, not only to their friends, but the guy they're with. Their men have pretty much told them marriage is inevitable...

 

My friends in those long relationships are more like this. And that includes most of my guy friends, most of whom are in a bigger hurry (but also older on average) to get married than my female friends.

[pandagirl]

I'd like to add that I live in NYC, where everyone is emotionally 7 years younger than the rest of the United States.

[zengirl]

I'd like to add that I live in NYC, where everyone is emotionally 7 years younger than the rest of the United States.

 

Ah, gotcha. Makes total sense then.

[phineas]

Both sexes date for fun. However, I think men have more incentive to do so. The average guy puts in a good deal of effort to get a girl in the beginning. Women love to be courted, have their meals payed for, and there is still a decent amount of rejection. Some guys enjoy that part and the chase. The rest of us are happy to sit back, relax, and enjoy regular sex rather than deal with all that again. Plenty of guys will ride it out until the woman insists on marriage or break up.

 

Actually, over the yrs, they guys I knew that had a new "GF" every 6 months put very little effort into it, little money, & only give them attention when sex is on the schedule.

 

Back in the day we used the phrase "more ass than toilet seat" to describe them. They didn't chase women, women chased them.

 

They were all the same 6ft+ very good looking & abs.

According to them they didn't really "date" women, they just slept with them until they offhandedly mentioned a relationship then moved onto the next piece.

[stillafool]

a guy would use a girl for over a year?? why not just go and find a new chick, one worth marrying one day??

 

Why do you consider dating someone for a year as being used? Did you have fun on the dates during that year? If so, fair exchange is not robbery. I don't understand what you are talking about.

[sally4sara]

a guy would use a girl for over a year?? why not just go and find a new chick, one worth marrying one day??

 

It might be shocking but more and more, both men and women are choosing to not get married ever. Should they become monks and nuns simply because they don't find a need to marry?

 

If someone doesn't want to marry ever and they are clear about it to someone who does want to marry, that person that wants to marry isn't getting used if they stick around. If they are only waiting around for the person to change their mind then they are foolish and its their fault for remaining.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I am curious if men, between the ages of 26-32 ish would date a girl for fun without any intention of ever marrying them? I understand if someone would do it for a hook up or maybe a month or two but I am talking about doing this a year or more. Is that possible?

 

My uncle really loves my aunt, but hates the idea of marriage so much that he put it off for 25 years.

 

Not many guys are going to continue dating you if they don't like you. Also, most guys won't date you with the specific thought of looking for something better. For the guys that do... marriage doesn't seem to change it.

 

I think women are just as likely if not much, much more to be in a relationship for comfort rather than passion... which I believe is at the heart of your question. It is pretty easy to tell if a guy is really passionate about you.

[Sanman]

Actually, over the yrs, they guys I knew that had a new "GF" every 6 months put very little effort into it, little money, & only give them attention when sex is on the schedule.

 

Back in the day we used the phrase "more ass than toilet seat" to describe them. They didn't chase women, women chased them.

 

They were all the same 6ft+ very good looking & abs.

According to them they didn't really "date" women, they just slept with them until they offhandedly mentioned a relationship then moved onto the next piece.

 

 

Sure, there will always be tall, fit, good looking guys who have an easy time with the ladies. I am talking about the average guy. Most the average guys I know have decently long bouts of being single (months) while looking for a girl. Once they have one in a relationship, they don't usually want to let her go and look for another. At least until the problems in the relationship outweigh the benefits. I have a friend who dated a girl five years knowing he couldn't marry her (diagnosed bpd, crazy family, etc). However, he didn't want to deal with the problems of breaking up and finding someone new. It came to a head when she wanted to get married and he told her it wasn't going to happen.

[pandagirl]

I think the main point of this thread is that the longevity of a relationship doesn't not necessarily equal the seriousness of a relationship. How do you find out the trajectory of a relationship? Communication.