My Epic Dilemma

[asuperduperneatoguy]

I need help.

 

Not physically, and thankfully not even in the sense of needing professional psychiatric help. I just need to share what I'm going through with other human beings.

 

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible for anyone kind enough to hear me out, but my story is in some ways so unique that it'll take more than just a few paragraphs.

 

I'm in what I believe to be the final days of a relationship that has finally reached a breaking point. That, I know, is anything but unique, but it's the circumstances of my life that make this one so different and so difficult for me.

 

I'm 27 years old. From childhood until a few years ago, I suffered so badly from shyness and social anxiety that I had scarcely ever even had a conversation with a female outside of my family.

 

At 23, I decided to do what seemed impossible, and completely turn my life around. I started a blog to document almost every turn of my endeavours, hoping to inspire and teach other sufferers how to change their lives. I completely dedicated myself to the cause, building social skills from scratch as I struggled to overcome my extreme shyness. In two years, I went on around 75 dates with upwards of 50 different women. The numbers sound outrageous to me now, but the amount of rejection I experienced is anything but surprising considering where I started.

 

To make a very, very long story short: I pulled it off. In about two years, I had eradicated my shyness through perseverence and lots of exposure and practice. I developed confidence, conversation and other social skills, to the point that I had great women pursuing me by the time it was all said and done. The transformation was like something you'd see in a movie.

 

I declared my mission to be over when I achieved my first physical intimacy with Rayna -- the woman who is the subject of the rest of this message.

 

I met her in line outside of a nightclub in March 2009. We had a brief conversation, and when I got ready to leave for the night, I told her to give me her phone number. Amazingly -- I was now 25 years old -- she was the first girl who I had ever asked for a phone number, in person. I had met all of the others on dating sites before this moment, when I had finally developed enough courage and confidence to meet a woman offline.

 

And so it began.

 

We started dating, and things went well. I never had to worry about whether she was interested, because she called me just to talk between dates. After the third date, I wrote beautifully in my blog about the moment I felt myself love her. Our fifth date was a huge milestone for me, as I had never gotten more than four dates with one woman.

 

Things were certainly not perfect, though. I remember the exact words of a thought I had during our ninth date: "This is unsustainable."

 

At the time, the problem was that she didn't ask me questions. It was bizarre. It was midway through our ninth date, and it seemed as if she had asked me fewer questions than we had had dates. I'd ask her something -- "So, what's your brother like?" -- hoping she'd ask me something similar in exchange, but she'd either talk about herself or sit in silence.

 

Still, though, I didn't give up on her. The peculiarity of her asking me so few questions actually worked to my advantage at first, since I was still developing conversation skills and had an easier time asking questions than talking about myself at length. Plus, things weren't exclusive; I continued dating other girls as well, now barrelling towards a heroic level of accomplishment in my social turnaround.

 

Nevertheless, my feelings wavered. It wasn't just her ostensible lack of interest in learning about me; it also began to bother me that Rayna never offered to pay a cent on our dates, with the number of dinners, movies, mini-golf outings and so on now in the teens. By contrast, I dated a girl named Stephanie at the same time who genuinely wanted to pay for some part of each of our dates (though I insisted it was on me), and who brought me a small gift to show that she appreciated the fun outing I had provided on our first date.

 

I was also dating a third girl at the time. Her name was Rati, and boy, was she special. We met in person when I confidently offered her my hand after seeing her notice me on the dance floor of a nightclub. It quickly became clear that we had much in common, such as both being engineers. We spent the rest of the night together, and she texted me from work the next day.

 

By the middle of our first date, it felt like Rati and I were made for each other. I had never experienced that type of fun chemistry with anyone, and to this day am not sure that I have again. She seemed equally enthralled, catching me off-guard attempting a passionate kiss on only our first date. Things continued to be amazing with Rati up through our third date, while Rayna became something of an afterthought.

 

But this essay is not about Rati, so of course, that didn't work out. While we were making out in her condo -- a first for me -- after our third date, she asked, "Is that you shaking?"

 

It was. I hadn't even noticed it, but the pressure of being a 25-year-old virgin on a mission to overcome shyness had gotten to me. We went out on a fourth and final date, which again ended with her noticing me shaking during our embrace on her sofa.

 

Rati avoided me for a while, and when we finally spoke again, she ended it, saying that I was a really nice guy but that she had too much going on.

 

It had been only four dates, but I was crushed. The girl who seemed like she was made for me was gone, and only because I had no previous experience with intimacy and was nervous.

 

I refocused on Rayna. Despite her obvious issues, there were good things. I liked that she called me most days, and I didn't have to wonder whether she was interested. I loved how affectionate she was; Rayna was the first girl with whom I had ever held hands, and the first woman to call me pet names. We had fun together, with many of our activities being firsts for me, having never had a girlfriend. I shed my virginity with her a little over 5 months after we met. That event went comically poorly, but she continued dating me nonetheless.

 

It sounds crazy, but it was our 17th date when she asked if I had any siblings. Around the same time, I asked her to come on vacation with me to the Virgin Islands. After we started making plans, I noticed that she asked what I do at work. She had gotten a short answer on our first date ("software engineer"), but now I got the feeling that she felt she needed to find out a little so that she could answer friends or family who asked about the guy she was going on vacation with. It'd be sketchy not to know such basic information about someone you're going away with, and yet, she simply hadn't asked much up to that point; for my part, I hadn't yet developed the skill of talking about myself at length without someone asking questions.

 

Overall, the vacation was a great experience for me. I experienced sleeping next to another person, calling someone my girlfriend, and various other firsts. I started to see some new, small problems with Rayna, but I figure they are on the scale of normal relationship problems, and won't bring them up in this post.

 

My feelings for Rayna heightened after our trip. I'd gotten used to being with her after being unseparated for several days on vacation, and wanted to spend more time with her. We'd now been dating about 7 months, and I soon decided to tell her I loved her, assuming that I would have achieved my first exclusive relationship if she reciprocated.

 

There were flowers, and there was a poem. She thanked me for the flowers, but ignored the poem, which cleverly stated my love. I said the three little words to her in person when we met up later that day, but she said she couldn't say them back. She cried and said things about how it took her time to let her feelings grow and flourish, and something metaphoric about having put me in a box. She also asked if her age was an issue for me: she was 31, while I was 26. I said that it wasn't an issue. I was too thankful for having her to even consider something that seemed so superficial.

 

I didn't bring it up again, and three weeks later, she whispered "I love you too, baby" the night before Thanksgiving.

 

I was overjoyed, knowing that I could finally end my struggle. But I wondered how long the happiness would last.

 

From there, we grew into the usual sorts of relationship things: meeting each other's families, spending entire weekends together, ending every phone call with "Love you," and so on. She and the relationship meant so much to me that I never deleted a voicemail where she said she loved me, until my mailbox was full.

 

But there were problems. Small problems, like any relationship. Medium problems, like discovering that she had an anti-American sentiment while I was fiercely patriotic. And there were what I think are large problems.

 

Now deep into a relationship, nothing changed with respect to her offering to pay for any of our dates. Meanwhile, I treated her like gold -- she was gold, to me. For example, when a special concert she desperately wanted to see was sold out, I managed to convince one of the few people with tickets to sell me theirs -- for 5 times the face value. I gave Rayna the two tickets for her and her best friend; she was excited, but never thanked me.

 

By this stage, she hinted occasionally at marriage and children. I had realized that she had been taking me for granted in some ways, with the concert tickets incident being a prime example, only slightly ahead of her not thanking me for an iPod I gave her. I knew that it was an issue for me that would block the progress of our relationship, so I decided to bring it up. She apologized.

 

We went to Puerto Rico in March 2010 to celebrate our 1-year anniversary. Here, she managed to drive me up a wall. There were typical problems with things like her attitude, but the big issue was one I've mentioned several times already: she had been taking advantage of me financially, and I'd finally had enough of it. The straw that broke the camel's back was when she managed to get me to pay for gifts to bring back for her friends, a day after asking if I was going to pay the check at a restaurant after the waittress placed it directly in her hands.

 

She had taken it too far, taking advantage of my complete generousity towards her. I hadn't even asked her to split the cost of the hotel with me. I knew she had a decent, professional job, and I was fed up with the way she'd been acting.

 

I thought about breaking up with her for the rest of the trip, on the plane ride home, and when we returned. But when she held my hand on the plane, and when I looked at pictures of us together, I couldn't bring myself to do it. What I had with her just seemed too precious to give up.

 

I asked her to come over to talk, and I explained clearly how I felt she'd been taking advantage of me. She apologized, but didn't offer up an explanation. Going forward, she now sometimes handed me twenty dollars when I paid for dinner. It bothered me, seeming as if she were now just doing the bare minimum, only because she had to, rather than because it was the decent, common sense thing to do.

 

The problem of Rayna not taking an interest in things about me also remained. Around the same time, my grandfather in another state had been very ill. Coincidentally, my local aunt was hospitalized at the same time for sudden ceisures. When Rayna asked how my day was during our nightly call one evening, I told her it was rough, and explained about my relatives in the hospital. She said she hoped they got better soon, but never asked me about it again in the coming days.

 

The Puerto Rico trip was the start of a cycle of me feeling the need to break up with her approximately every four months, but never being able to go through with it. Each time, I settled back into the relationship, with all of the affectionate "I love you's", hugs, kisses, daily calls, weekends together, and other things I cherished.

 

The next big bump came in July. There was a Caribbean Carnival event that I knew Rayna had been excited about, but she kept quiet whenever I brought it up. It was obvious that for some reason, she didn't want me there with her.

 

A few days before the event, Rayna called me after leaving an event with dance classmates, where she'd been drinking. She was tipsy. She badgered me about whether I would get mad if I came and saw her grinding with other guys. I was shocked, and she confirmed that the reason she didn't want me there was because she wanted to grind dance with other guys, and that the alcohol acted like a truth serum.

 

As bad as all that sounds -- starting with how immature it seems for a 31-year-old -- it was much worse. Only a couple months earlier, I had clarified the terms of our relationship with her, pointing out that I would never even touch another girl when out with friends. At the time, she claimed that the same went with her, and that we hadn't even needed to discuss it because it went without saying. Now, she was dropping this idiotic conversation on me the very next night after I told her I'd received news that my grandfather was expected to pass away at any time. I was expecting a phone call of support, but instead, it was this...

 

All in all, it was unfathomably bad, alcohol or not. I wouldn't stay quiet about this problem, and instead asked her to come over and talk a few days later. After I explained how it made me feel to find out that she was planning on doing something with other guys behind my back, I expected her to apologize profusely. Instead, she refused to admit that the conversation had even taken place, and claimed she wouldn't do such a thing.

 

I implored her to tell the truth -- I would have forgiven her -- but she wouldn't. Her foolishness in refusing to admit something she'd already told me with her own mouth was as shocking as her indisecretions.

 

I realized that I had to break up with her, but foolishly, decided to do it at a more convenient time. I was afraid of having to deal with both my first break-up and my grandfather's passing at the same time, so I told her that the incident would set us back, and just said that I guessed there were no perfect relationships or people.

 

Again, I settled back into the usual relationship routine, as the incident faded into the past. Within a couple months, my issues with her started to weigh heavily on my mind again -- from the apparent lack of interest, from her continuing to take advantage, to the lying -- and I felt as if I didn't want to see her anymore. As I explained my feelings, she cried. I asked her to explain why she would ever do things like that in the first place, and she simply froze up, unable to say a word as I calmly asked her questions. I needed to understand the root of the problem, which seemed to manifest itself in so many ways.

 

I explained my problem with her more clearly the next day over the phone, painting a picture, much as I've done in this message. She then understood, acknowledged her selfishness, and said she would work on it.

 

I hated the thought of breaking up, and so reset the cycle, trying to make it work. In spite of everything, I still loved Rayna, and tried to give her the world. I'd spare no expense for her; her birthday cost me around $800, which included a hot air balloon ride, a specially made vegan cake, a designer handbag, and dinner at an exclusive restaurant. I supported her through conflicts she had with her mother, health problems, work issues, and in every other way she needed.

 

For all the problems, Rayna really did seem to love me. She remained extremely affectionate, and talked more and more about having a family together. In spite of that, she seemed to do little for me; after each blowup, I expected her to try to do something to make me feel better - perhaps give a small gift - yet there was nothing.

 

In January, I thought about breaking up with her again. This time, it was mainly because I was enraged when I recalled how she'd planned to do something sexual with other guys, and had lied to me about it outright. I called her over for yet another talk, and tried to give her another chance to admit it on her own. She didn't. She cried, and admitted everything only after I, for the first time, got angry enough to yell at her. I explained that it had been eating me up inside over time, and that I'd been hoping she would show some integrity by eventually telling the truth on her own, as she never did. I explained how terrible it felt to know that I would be betrayed after doing so much for her. She said she loved me - that she would always love me - and that she was sorry for what she had done to me. Her only explanation for her actions was that she guessed it was just evil.

 

She said if I ever decided that it wouldn't work out, she definitely wanted to know. It sounded as if she didn't want to "waste time," as she was now 32 years old and hoping to start a family.

 

Foolishly, I again stayed with her. I felt the timing was off again, as we had just started taking a dance class together that I really wanted to continue. Besides that, I simply hated the thought of breaking up. And so, after a couple weeks of akwardness between us, I settled back into the relationship routine, and eventually regained my feelings.

 

Fast foward to last week. I once again became aggravated by the fact that I was still seeing the same problems with Rayna, even after having multiple discussions about them:

 

Years later, and she still sometimes took me for granted, this time failing to send me a simple thank-you e-mail after I spent time helping with her work while traveling to visit my grandmother.

 

Years later, and she was still taking advantage of me financially. When she picked me up from the airport after my trip, she took me to dinner, but didn't offer to pay, even after I let the check sit while waiting for her to pay it. I recalled how she had never offered to split the cost of vacations I mentioned in this post, along with others. And I knew she could afford to do so -- she just bought a luxury car (an Acura to my Honda), and has travelled internationally to Spain and Mexico for vacations without me. She recently booked a vacation with family in the Dominican Republic. She'd spent over a thousand dollars on dance workshops.

 

I make a good living, but I'm far from well-off with student loans, a house, and other expenses she doesn't have. I don't even have bedroom furniture because I don't want to spend the money on it, and yet, I spent $800 on her last birthday alone. Over the course of two years, she's drained me financially by allowing me to bear most of the expense of our relationship. Yet, she didn't even offer to pay for dinner to welcome me back right after I got off of an airplane.

 

Years later, and she still isn't engaged in the things that go on in my life without her. A couple months ago, I had a "we need to talk" conversation with her about her not asking questions and seeming interested. I explained that I didn't want to bring it up earlier, because I wanted her to genuinely be interested, rather than fake it. Who wants to share anything with someone you think is only asking you questions because you asked them to? But she never did it on her own, and pushed me to have that conversation. She cried, and said how much I meant to her.

 

I had yet another talk with her last week -- there have now been so many that I'm having a hard time keeping track -- this time, about the "taking advantage" issue. She froze up, crying uncontrollably, and had no acceptable explanation in two telephone conversations, so I asked her to come over the third day. I mentally prepared myself to break up with her if I still was not satisfied with a resolution, and my days were fraught with anxiety. When I explained my problem to her as clearly as I have here in writing, she said she was hard-headed, and acknowledged that we had a lot of work to do in the relationship. I asked her if she was willing to accept how far away we still were from marriage after being together for so long, and she said that she was.

 

And so, we again didn't break up, and here I am today.

 

I feel that I really do need to end this relationship. My thoughts have been dominated by contemplation and worries about breaking up for what at least seems like most days of my life now for a year. Logically, I have a hard time seeing a way that I will want to marry her and start a family with her within a few short years, with all of the problems we've had. I have no prior relationship experience, but they don't seem like normal problems, or like problems that will be overcome to build a lifelong, stable relationship. How can I ever be confident making that kind of commitment to a woman I've thought of breaking up with so many times?

 

But I am afraid. I'm afraid because my relationship with Rayna is the single greatest thing I've ever experienced. I'm afraid because when I look into her eyes, I can't imagine meeting a more beautiful woman. I'm afraid because I can't imagine us going from speaking every night, to never speaking again. I'm afraid because I have a weak support system, with only one close friend. I'm afraid because I'm such a nostalgic person, and don't know how I will handle the memory of so many amazing firsts with one person, who I can never be with again.

 

That is my epic delimma.

Edited July 30, 2011 by asuperduperneatoguy

[plowguy1]

First, let me congradulate you on your transformation.

I read your whole (long) lol post, but it was well written.

I want to focus on the last part, where you said you dont want to be single,how will you deal with all those great first memories etc.

I was married for 17 yrs with 3 children. to be honest my ex was self centered, but she was 21 when we married. your gf sounds even more self centered.

I just want you to look down the road 5 10 15 yrs. talk to some people whove been/are there. marriage and kids do not make these things better, they make them worse when you are dealing with someone so self centered. She will leave you, and not think twice about it someday, leaving you and your kids devastated.

I don't want to depress you, but your odds of winning the lottery are better than finding a woman who will stay with you and raise kids to adults. yeah they exist, and people win the lottery too...

I know you probably want the dream, like alot of us did, look at the divorce forums. When things get hard she will not tell you shes unhappy, then she will say I'm done, and say you didn't know there was a problem? You'll have been too busy working hard for you family. the reasons are many. Mostly our society, and a thing called hypergamy (google it)

If you were my son I would tell you this is not the one. Yeah I know shes beautiful, can be affectionate, and it feels great when she is. Just enjoy what you had, or enjoy it a little longer, but DO NOT have children with this woman. I know you probably won't listen to me ( I wouldn't have)

You're a successful young man with a lot to offer a woman who wants to have a family, and will be there for the long haul. the problem is these women are rarer than any of us thought. Just enjoy the fruits of your success, enjoy friends and family, and girlfriends now and then, but don't be in a hurry to settle down. Remember you're still kinda new at this, as I was. Your gut has been telling for a long time what to do, I know you don't want to, it would like sticking a knife in your eye, but if you think you'll be in pain now, marry her and have some kids. when shes "not happy" down the road you'll know what pain is.. you have the power now, keep it

[dispatch3d]

Well I read probably half of it, it's a lot of all the same stuff.

 

She seems self-absorbed and self centered, possibly a gold digger. Ok not possibly, she is one. It was subtly obvious at first, but became more and more obvious as you went.

 

I think your mistakes were more in the "can't say no" category. You consistently did stuff that made you uncomfortable. Mind you, she probably KNEW you didn't like doing those things, but just pushed the envelope knowing you'd cave. With this one I think you'd have to take more of a "take it or leave it" attitude.

 

She is probably used to dating *******s - mostly because *******s are very very very good at saying no to people. Well more like just not being very nice, and expecting others to deal with it.

[thatone]

First, let me congradulate you on your transformation.

I read your whole (long) lol post, but it was well written.

I want to focus on the last part, where you said you dont want to be single,how will you deal with all those great first memories etc.

I was married for 17 yrs with 3 children. to be honest my ex was self centered, but she was 21 when we married. your gf sounds even more self centered.

I just want you to look down the road 5 10 15 yrs. talk to some people whove been/are there. marriage and kids do not make these things better, they make them worse when you are dealing with someone so self centered. She will leave you, and not think twice about it someday, leaving you and your kids devastated.

I don't want to depress you, but your odds of winning the lottery are better than finding a woman who will stay with you and raise kids to adults. yeah they exist, and people win the lottery too...

I know you probably want the dream, like alot of us did, look at the divorce forums. When things get hard she will not tell you shes unhappy, then she will say I'm done, and say you didn't know there was a problem? You'll have been too busy working hard for you family. the reasons are many. Mostly our society, and a thing called hypergamy (google it)

If you were my son I would tell you this is not the one. Yeah I know shes beautiful, can be affectionate, and it feels great when she is. Just enjoy what you had, or enjoy it a little longer, but DO NOT have children with this woman. I know you probably won't listen to me ( I wouldn't have)

You're a successful young man with a lot to offer a woman who wants to have a family, and will be there for the long haul. the problem is these women are rarer than any of us thought. Just enjoy the fruits of your success, enjoy friends and family, and girlfriends now and then, but don't be in a hurry to settle down. Remember you're still kinda new at this, as I was. Your gut has been telling for a long time what to do, I know you don't want to, it would like sticking a knife in your eye, but if you think you'll be in pain now, marry her and have some kids. when shes "not happy" down the road you'll know what pain is.. you have the power now, keep it

 

agree.

 

and i think you're so occupied with your own self improvement that you have probably missed more red flags than you pointed out. you have to know that when she is traveling to foreign countries alone after apologizing for getting drunk and rubbing up on other men in her dance hobby that she has cheated on you more than once.

 

she has been controlling you from day one. for the love of all that is holy, do not give this woman children. she will ruin both you and those children, and it'll be your fault for letting it happen.

[Dust]

I agree with a lot of the advice given by the posters above. I’d like to add it all comes back to you. If you spend $800 on her birthday the reward should come from being able to throw her such a great birthday. You shouldn’t expect $800 or a bunch of thanks or anything in return. It is your job to not spend all your money on a women. Because in my experience even the good ones will let you go broke on them that is if they don’t dump you first for being such a chump.

 

My rule is I only spend the money I can afford to spend and that I am happy spending. Also if a person isn’t showing you respect it’s your job to do something about it which may mean leaving. Please don’t blame this woman for “making” you spend money. It is important you know how to draw the line. It is also very important that you don’t think of it as money. You don’t want it to become a business math equation “I spent this much on you but you don’t spend on me and look at your nice car” would be terrible.

 

With my gf after we reached a certain point we just split everything. I did pay for the first few dates and then I said we need to split things. It’s your job to say stuff like that. If I had just kept paying for everything and had a little fight because of my own frustration and then just kept on business as usual then that’s my fault.

 

The more you demand of some one the more they expect of you. The more you just give and give for no reason the more you invite that type of behavior and the less every one will value you.

 

Congratulations on coming so far out of your shell that you were able to connect with another person. I was a little confused have you two ever had sex? Well I know you still find her pretty and would love for your problems to be fixed but some times problems can’t be fixed. You can still cherish your time with her if you do dump her and you don’t have to demonize her or hate her but it would be best to say a goodbye even if she hated you for it you should go no contact at all with her after you dump her. When you try to meet new women after you’ve dumped her if it comes to that I advise meeting women at the dance class or cooking class or some other fun activity. Even meeting women at the park. Try to stay away from the club and online as I feel it’s a meat market.

 

Good luck

[Feelsgoodman]

I couldn't help noticing that the word "foolishly" seems to feature prominently in your post. And that's exactly how I would describe your relationship with "Rayna". This woman is six years older than you, takes advantage of you financially and is almost certainly cheating on you behind your back. And yet, you can't bring yourself to break up with her.

 

The other girl got it right. You are too much of a nice guy. You haven't really transformed at all; you just managed to find a parasite who latched on to you.

 

As for this girl loving you, don't fool yourself. She can say 'I love you' and other sweet things all day, but talk is cheap. What you need to do is look at her actions. Does she act like a person who's in love with you? It certainly doesn't look that way to me.