torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) You often hear the wisdom that people who fall really fast burn out fast and I think there's some truth there. Yet it's also been my experience that when a man digs you he is on you like gangbusters from pretty much day one and you will never question his interest. He is THERE. Come to think of it all of the men who have been really into me were telling me they loved me by about the one month mark. Their personalities didn't seem to matter. They could be shy, laid back, otherwise emotionally reserved or unavailable. The men I have dated who were a bit more cautious at the start never materialized into something substantial or the relationship ended because he never fell entirely, even though he may have claimed in words that he did. In one case I dated a man like this for many years and his inability to be 100% was what killed it. By slow and steady I even mean his behavior may be more sensible--he genuinely seems to like you quite a bit but he's just taking his time. As a more cautious person the slow and steady approach makes more sense to me and puts me more at ease--but it doesn't seem to mesh with how men are wired. Without fail these slow starts seem to lead nowhere good. So which is it. Edited July 29, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Of course, there is an in between. HOWEVER (and this is perhaps why the 'meh' guys never seemed to work for you), in my experience and observation -- and from what male friends have told me -- in terms of relationship-oriented men who are seeking a LTR, a man will not generally let you doubt his interest (unless he's shy or you're insecure, which are entirely different issues) if he thinks you are even potential GF material. That doesn't mean he's all in, but he's going to be pursuing you, actively trying to see if he's into you and vice versa, and actively contacting you a reasonable amount (not like crazy, but not disappearing for more than, say, a few days at a time without letting you know why). That's because he's actively looking for someone who is GF material, and if he thinks that could be you, he will begin to invest. Someone who decides to invest by going all in = dangerous. Someone who doesn't invest at all = dangerous. Someone who invests little by little and actively tries to assess compatibility = good LTR material. Of course, other issues include shyness in a guy: some guys are shy; it's harder to tell if they like you because they're shy; usually if he knows you like him, he will no longer be shy---any guy who is still shy after you've been clear (not "girl clear" but actual clear) has deeper issues or is not that into you. Another issue is insecurity---if you never feel secure in anyone's interest, even a guy acting like good LTR material isn't going to make you feel secure. In fact, you may seek out All In Guy. All In Guy (early on, I mean) is not good LTR material. All In Guy is impulsive and overly invests before he even really knows you; I'm not sure why women find that flattering since he's investing more in the magical idea of you that's in his head than in the actual you he doesn't know yet. Good LTR Guy will want to get to know you and will invest slowly as he does. There will be a point (I'd say anywhere between 3 weeks and 3 months, depending on how you met, how much time you spend together, whether you have mutual social circles, etc) where Good LTR Guy goes pretty close to All In. Don't wait forever for it, but give it some time.
thatone Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 yeah, that's pretty much it. if i'm interested there won't be anything left to her imagination, she will know i'm interested, i will make that plainly clear physically, verbally, and suggestively. i would also agree that him being distant after you've made it clear that you are attracted to him is a sign that it's time to let him go, because he's not sharing the same amount of attraction for whatever reason, and probably never will. men do not have drastic positive changes in how they're attracted to women as time passes, as women sometimes do with men. men just aren't wired that way.
Fondue Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 In my personal experience, every time I dove into it 100%, it ended up awful for me. Never got anywhere, really. Every single time I simply didn't care much, things worked out beautifully. It's complete opposite of your experiences :/.
Author torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 Of course, there is an in between. HOWEVER (and this is perhaps why the 'meh' guys never seemed to work for you), in my experience and observation -- and from what male friends have told me -- in terms of relationship-oriented men who are seeking a LTR, a man will not generally let you doubt his interest (unless he's shy or you're insecure, which are entirely different issues) if he thinks you are even potential GF material. That doesn't mean he's all in, but he's going to be pursuing you, actively trying to see if he's into you and vice versa, and actively contacting you a reasonable amount (not like crazy, but not disappearing for more than, say, a few days at a time without letting you know why). That's because he's actively looking for someone who is GF material, and if he thinks that could be you, he will begin to invest. Someone who decides to invest by going all in = dangerous. Someone who doesn't invest at all = dangerous. Someone who invests little by little and actively tries to assess compatibility = good LTR material. Of course, other issues include shyness in a guy: some guys are shy; it's harder to tell if they like you because they're shy; usually if he knows you like him, he will no longer be shy---any guy who is still shy after you've been clear (not "girl clear" but actual clear) has deeper issues or is not that into you. Another issue is insecurity---if you never feel secure in anyone's interest, even a guy acting like good LTR material isn't going to make you feel secure. In fact, you may seek out All In Guy. All In Guy (early on, I mean) is not good LTR material. All In Guy is impulsive and overly invests before he even really knows you; I'm not sure why women find that flattering since he's investing more in the magical idea of you that's in his head than in the actual you he doesn't know yet. Good LTR Guy will want to get to know you and will invest slowly as he does. There will be a point (I'd say anywhere between 3 weeks and 3 months, depending on how you met, how much time you spend together, whether you have mutual social circles, etc) where Good LTR Guy goes pretty close to All In. Don't wait forever for it, but give it some time. Hmm. I'm having trouble telling whether we're referring to the same sort of behavior. When a non crazy guy has been genuinely interested in me he seems eager yet cautious the first couple of meetings but once our mutual liking has been established things quickly accelerate and he's all in within a month--and by all in I mean he'll usually be claiming he's in love--assuming we get to see each other with some frequency--but usually when a guy is interested he finds the time to no matter how busy he is. After he dives in it's hard to tell the difference between him and a crazy over investor. I'm not sure if this is the same style you're talking about? The crazier guys won't just invest immediately but they also will make pronouncements that are ready to be toppled. Like calling the girl "perfect" before he really gets to know her. They also have a relationship history of falling for a bunch of girls and not really having a specific type or at least not in any positive sense. My experience with slow investing guys has been bad. I would believe the guy that things were progressing naturally and slowly and I even felt comfortable with that pace, but in these cases I often found out later that they had doubts or were never able to reach total investment. Of course this is just my experience and I haven't dated every guy out there.
Author torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 In my personal experience, every time I dove into it 100%, it ended up awful for me. Never got anywhere, really. Every single time I simply didn't care much, things worked out beautifully. It's complete opposite of your experiences :/. Maybe that's because the girl wasn't into you in those cases?
Fondue Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Maybe that's because the girl wasn't into you in those cases? Which would revert back to the original thread post, relationships all depend on the enthusiasm of both parties. All this means is that regardless of gender, people are going to be into you or not into you. It simply isn't a he/she thing.
Author torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 Which would revert back to the original thread post, relationships all depend on the enthusiasm of both parties. All this means is that regardless of gender, people are going to be into you or not into you. It simply isn't a he/she thing. My original question was if the normal response when a guy is interested is for him to invest fairly quickly...I think you're making an unrelated point. It's not the same between the genders. Women on average are slower investors when they're interested in my experience. Of course there are exceptions--see the bunny boiler type.
zengirl Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Hmm. I'm having trouble telling whether we're referring to the same sort of behavior. When a non crazy guy has been genuinely interested in me he seems eager yet cautious the first couple of meetings but once our mutual liking has been established things quickly accelerate and he's all in within a month--and by all in I mean he'll usually be claiming he's in love--assuming we get to see each other with some frequency--but usually when a guy is interested he finds the time to no matter how busy he is. After he dives in it's hard to tell the difference between him and a crazy over investor. No, I think ILY in a month is pretty quick (and a little crazy or overly romantic at least). I think waiting too long is a death knell as well. A lot of it depends on other factors. I've said ILY in under a month before, but it was a guy I'd known and loved as a friend for awhile (and vice versa). He KNEW me, and he knew he loved ME. My last exBF said ILY a little soon --- just before two months --- but we'd been writing, Skyping, and such for several months before we met and had met briefly on other occasions, years before. My current BF and I did not say ILY till a few weeks ago, just around the 3 month mark. Honestly, if a guy is saying ILY before we've had our first argument or before he's really seen me on a consistent basis, I'm skeptical. He doesn't love ME----he loves the chemicals, he loves the idea of me, he loves feeling the way he feels in the moment---but he's still getting to know ME. That said, different people do get to know each other at different paces, but I think I get to know someone fast on average (have to when you move as much as I do) and I don't think a month is nearly long enough. That's why I said the 3 month mark is a better judge. To each their own, of course.
green_tea Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 In my personal experience, every time I dove into it 100%, it ended up awful for me. Never got anywhere, really. Every single time I simply didn't care much, things worked out beautifully. It's complete opposite of your experiences :/. When you say you didn't care and it worked out - do you mean you were lukewarm at the start and your feelings got stronger? Or you felt strongly, but just took it slow and didn't let yourself worry too much about it? Just trying to get some insight into a guy I'm seeing....
Mr. Slim Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I can't envision any scenario where I'm saying I love you after a month. I'm also not going to be on any woman "like gangbusters" from day one. Unfortunately, too many lame player types have ruined it for the regular guy with their ridiculous attention/affection showering right at the start, mainly because they know it's the fastest way into a woman's pants (or the fastest way to find out they're not going to get in). At some point women start to believe that all men are that ridiculously needy right out of the gate. But of course, everyone is different. I'd like to think at SOME point, yes you would want them to be all in. If they are not that way after YEARS, yes that's bad.
Author torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Honestly, if a guy is saying ILY before we've had our first argument or before he's really seen me on a consistent basis, I'm skeptical. He doesn't love ME----he loves the chemicals, he loves the idea of me, he loves feeling the way he feels in the moment---but he's still getting to know ME. No I actually agree with this but I believe that it's partly a difference between the genders. Men will often call early infatuation feelings love while women are a bi tmore cautious. My experience has been that many guys-- sane and not sane--will jump the gun with the l word when they're really into a girl. When this happens I usually take it with a grain of salt and try to take the attitude "we'll wait and see". But I feel like it's kind of par for the course because it's happened whenever a guy is interested. Edited July 29, 2011 by torn_curtain
zengirl Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 No I actually agree with this but I believe that it's partly a difference between the genders. Men will often call early infatuation feelings love while women are a bi tmore cautious. My experience has been that many guys-- sane and not sane--will jump the gun with the l word when they're really into a girl. I actually think women tend to invest quicker, based on my friends/their experiences, though both women and men tend to hold back their expression of investment (i.e. everyone feels it quite a bit before they say it) to a degree. Most of the girls I know are the ones who are all schmoopie early on (though they've learned to not "show" this to the guy, which is weird to me), and the guys usually are more level-headed about it---not univested just more actively trying to get to know who the real person is and understanding they don't know her yet. My female friends tend to put men on pedestals. Most of my male friends are stoic guys who are sincerely looking for LTRs and really do try to find true compatibility. I would say my relationship style is more like theirs, but most of my girl friends think I'm kind of weird. I'm not really a romantic. I do think both for my guy friends and for me, that it seems to all come together a particular moment. But that moment is usually not terribly early. I don't think the divide is gender related. It depends on whether the guy is a romantic or a stoic. I date stoics, but stoics with emotional sides who have a good heart and capacity to be open with love. Perhaps you date romantics. (Heaven help you. )
Author torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Author Posted July 29, 2011 I actually think women tend to invest quicker, based on my friends/their experiences, though both women and men tend to hold back their expression of investment (i.e. everyone feels it quite a bit before they say it) to a degree. Most of the girls I know are the ones who are all schmoopie early on (though they've learned to not "show" this to the guy, which is weird to me), and the guys usually are more level-headed about it---not univested just more actively trying to get to know who the real person is and understanding they don't know her yet. My female friends tend to put men on pedestals. Most of my male friends are stoic guys who are sincerely looking for LTRs and really do try to find true compatibility. I would say my relationship style is more like theirs, but most of my girl friends think I'm kind of weird. I'm not really a romantic. I do think both for my guy friends and for me, that it seems to all come together a particular moment. But that moment is usually not terribly early. I don't think the divide is gender related. It depends on whether the guy is a romantic or a stoic. I date stoics, but stoics with emotional sides who have a good heart and capacity to be open with love. Perhaps you date romantics. (Heaven help you. ) My preference is for guys who are both rational and romantic but not overly so--I hate cheesy...a hard balance to find. I like stoic on the surface but a bit vulnerable underneath yet still strong. Haha. I have to feel like the guy is loving me for me or I lose interest. Can't stand men who aren't discriminating.
Recommended Posts