ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I tend to agree with ruby, especially considering you have confidence issues. I am slightly below average in the looks department and I am not going to go for the 9s and 10s. I am not suggesting you should go for someone who you find unattractive or someone who is not sociable but, you might want to try with a girl more average looking. Unless you look like Brad Pitt chances are not good that some smoking hot girl is going to come up to you and ask you out. Plus you never know what you may find, looks aren't everything.
Queen Zenobia Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Having seen a pic of 49322, he's not a bad looking guy. I'd say between 7 and 8, but that's just my opinion though. I'm sure not all women would be attracted to him (that's life though). I'm convinced his issues are 100% confidence related. Settling won't change that. Ruby is right in that men who might not be lookers should probably shoot for similar women, but 49322 is right that not all men fit this mold. I don't know, this thread seems to have devolved into another argument entirely from how it started. I don't know
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I tend to agree with ruby, especially considering you have confidence issues. I am slightly below average in the looks department and I am not going to go for the 9s and 10s. I am not suggesting you should go for someone who you find unattractive or someone who is not sociable but, you might want to try with a girl more average looking. Unless you look like Brad Pitt chances are not good that some smoking hot girl is going to come up to you and ask you out. Plus you never know what you may find, looks aren't everything. I don't go for 9's and 10's! I go for girls that are generally within my league or lower. I don't look for "smoking hot girls". It's always the nerdy/bookish ones who want nothing to do with me. Most of them are cute, but I never go for "hot" women. Most of those kinds are morally bankrupt anyway.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 One was in response to a particular person, yes, another was a generalized comment though. It was as if you assumed that tough luck with dating automatically equals overweight and socially awkward. Why didn't you address me directly instead of forming the incorrect opinion that I look down on inexperienced men and harboring a grudge against me for it? The last several girls I dated (who ultimately walked away) were not in any way supermodels. They were cute sure, but not some "fantasy girl". My standards are quite realistic. Well, that's good. This is probably why you actually go on dates, as opposed to some of the entitled loners who haven't gotten to that stage. I say keep it up. But I don't get the sense that this is true for a lot of other guys in your situation. That guy had several strikes against him, as I recall, things that really turn women off -- like living with his mom, having no sexual experience, being overweight, being unemployed. In spite of all that, he seemed to believe he deserved a woman with basically no unattractive qualities, the kind of woman that most men would be attracted to. What's wrong with this picture? But, perhaps I should just "date down" since I have an inexperience handicap (according to your logic). I don't advocate dating down. I advocate dating on or around your level. Overweight and socially awkward? Consider your female counterparts, who are also overweight and socially awkward. Prefer a woman who is in shape and socially fluid? Get in shape and become more socially fluid yourself. I think this is pretty sensible.
Content Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 How many 9's and 10's are out ther anyway? maybe a few percentage of the population is If your a 7 or 8 thats still above average and you should have no problem attracting women
AD1980 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I love when people say you should stick to your league as if theyres an exact mathmetical equation to it or people have numbers on their head that say im a 6 or im a 3.Its hard to know your league I guess the one who finally says yes is my league
grkBoy Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I consider myself a "nice guy". My girlfriend still can't figure it out why all these women I knew who are chronically single and constantly end up in messed up RLs kept passing me up...but she's happy they did so she could snatch me up. Not bragging, but all the guys out there who get bewildered by the "bad boy" and "nice guy" thing need to really rethink it all. 1) I agree with Audrina that most women just don't want a doormat. You want to buy flowers, open doors, pull chairs, carry her groceries, give her a massage, etc...don't do it until she calls herself "your girlfriend". I'm totally serious. Be loose, open, confident, happy, and someone who is an enjoyment. Just don't get into the "trying to win her heart" thing until you won her heart. Girls in general don't deserve a guy friend or stranger to do all those nice things to them. They deserve it from their BOYFRIEND, and thus they should pick a man who will do those things as their boyfriend. Likewise, you guys need to cool your jets until this girl agrees to take it to that level. Not before. 2) You guys need to learn that some women just are not worth your time. I don't care how hot she is, how alone she is, how much she claims she wishes she had a nice guy in her life...look at her ACTIONS, not her words. So this girl continually hooks up with jerks who treat her like crap, douchebags who cheat on her, narcissistic idiots who refuse to commit, etc. She continually passes up caring good men to try to make something happen with a jerk...guess what? SHE'S NOT WORTH YOUR TIME! I don't care if you wake up one day and find out all the women in the 4-10 looks range will never date a nice guy and you're stuck with your hand or the fuglies. Don't waste your time on self-destructive women. Don't even waste your time on the women who went through the self-destructive phase and now wants you while carrying a trunk of baggage on her back. I tell you, when you look at the badboy-chasers and see them the way you would look at a 400-lb bald woman covered in warts...the dating realm becomes much clearer. Don't reward women who reject you with devotion.
bac Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Women, is it true that even though you may say "want" a nice guy, one who will treat you nice, wait on you , and ultimately be there for you, you all ultimately go for the Bad Boy? So what do women really want? They don't want a nice guy, claim they don't want a macho jerk, but yet it seems that those are the guys they end up subconciously falling for first. Give me some thoughts fetish Experienced women probably know what they want. But, young girls do not know want they want. Experienced women probably do not want a bad boy. I do not want a bad boy. But, when I was a girl (before 30), I liked them, because they were sexually aggresive and assertive. It seemed that bad boys knew what they wanted and what to do with a female. It is exactly what a girl needs to figure out what to do with a male. When I was young, I was very confused about how to have sex and how to deal with men. It was great when a male was assertive because he did all the job. A girl feels great if a man takes all the initiative during sex and she just lets him use her body as an object. If a man is nice, he is not sexually and socially aggresive. It means he expects a girl to take some initiative during sex. It is really hard for a girl because she is young and has very limited sexual feelings. It is very difficult to take sexual initiative with low young girl's libido. Dealing with a bad boy makes a girl feel competent at sex, adequate, desirable, and sexy.
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I don't go for 9's and 10's! I go for girls that are generally within my league or lower. I don't look for "smoking hot girls". It's always the nerdy/bookish ones who want nothing to do with me. Most of them are cute, but I never go for "hot" women. Most of those kinds are morally bankrupt anyway. If you are already going out on dates then I don't understand what the problem is? Do all of your 1st dates go badly and you don't get 2nd dates? Whats the deal?
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Why didn't you address me directly instead of forming the incorrect opinion that I look down on inexperienced men and harboring a grudge against me for it? I did address you directly at the time. From the thread "Judged due to minimum dating history": What kills any sympathy I might have for late bloomer guys is that 95% of them are not interested in dating a woman who has no relationship/dating/sex experience, because they argue that "something must be wrong with her". And they never see the irony, arguing that it's sooooo easy for a woman to find someone. Are you overweight, socially awkward, and inexperienced? Then try dating someone who's also overweight, socially awkward, and inexperienced. But no -- somehow, this is just unthinkable. what I wrote back: I'd date someone who had never dated before. But I'm not overweight, and not socially awkward (for the most part), just inexperienced. So, if I met a girl who was in shape (like me) and not socially awkward (also like me) but was inexperienced I'd definitely give her a chance. Now, I'm willing to chalk this up (at this point) as a misunderstanding. But since you never responded in that thread nor the other one I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you believed that inexperience was a handicap in dating. It's also possible that I interpreted your post to be in concert with the overall opinion of some of the women in that thread that there was something intrinsically wrong with inexperienced men. If this is the case than I will humbly retract my original statement and we can both go on our merry ways.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 If you are already going out on dates then I don't understand what the problem is? Do all of your 1st dates go badly and you don't get 2nd dates? Whats the deal? Well, I've been on three dates in the past two years with two different women. One was a girl I had gone to school with years ago who I had been chatting with online and the other was a girl I met on OKC. I generally have a hard time approaching strange women with the intention of asking them out or flirting etc., since I don't know what to say I just ignore them. I try online dating but my messages are never replied to. The dates didn't go horribly, but when I tried to ask the girls out again I always got the run around or they just never called me back, so obviously I was doing something wrong.
zengirl Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I'm 23. I just graduated college, I live at home (while looking for work) but I've never so much as kissed a girl or held hands with one. I mean sure there's time to change, but for a while now I've been pretty down on myself (due to my failures with women). Don't be down on yourself! That helps nothing. Read the Tao of Dating for Men. Try to do something that brings you great self-esteem, particularly something social (I have a friend who did poetry readings to boost it, I've recommended several people take improv lessons, even just joining more groups and such is helpful). Re: minimum dating history I don't usually go for men with no relationship experience either, but I've lived with a man (didn't work out), been engaged (he died), had LTRs. It's just hard to go backwards (it's not about the physicality; it's about the communication, compatibility, and life training relationships give you). I know girls my age or even a few years older who've never had a serious relationship though (I'm 26) and that's at the higher point of your age range, likely, so I wouldn't worry about that view yet. You're still young! Ruby is a decent deal older, so I'm sure the number of women like that at her age are less. Make a thread, there are some really smart girls on here like zengirl and ruby I am sure they would be willing to give you some tips on what to do. You have to be honest though. If you aren't stellar in the looks department you gotta work on it. Thanks for the compliment. Honestly, I have trouble giving advice to those who have persistent failure, because they have to jog themselves out of that state with something that boosts gratitude and self-esteem, I think, and that's not as easy as giving advice on random specifics. It's so much about the person. But at the OP's age, he has plenty of time. He just needs to find a way to create a feeling that he is successful --- I imagine he has some limiting beliefs. But I'm an artsy weird hippie Buddhist optimist. A lot of my advice feels indirect to many, I imagine. I have a goatee, and a while ago a mustache and a goatee. I'm probably just going to keep the goatee, I don't like how I look without it. I keep it neatly trimmed though so I don't look like ZZ Top or anything. I've made threads before, most of the time they end up with: try online dating (tried it and I'm still trying it), be more assertive and "try" (and Ruby usually takes a disdainful view of inexperienced guys so I'm not going to go there). I'm not comfortable with approaching random women in the supermarket or bookstore yet (Dust's suggested strategy) but I'm skeptical as to whether or not that would work either. Not to mention probably most women would find my living situation to be a turnoff. I don't know any women in my social circle who like goatees. Many like beards, but mustaches and goatees are generally thought to = creepy (or sometimes mustaches alone = super duper hipster, if you're into that thing, and it's a hipster 'stache). That's the only issue in the looks you describe I see as being an issue. T-shirt and jeans never bothers me; that's what my BF wears most of the time. As far as your living situation goes, it's not ideal, but at 23, I'm not sure it'd be a dealbreaker, particularly if you date girls slightly younger. Sounds like it'd hamper your sex life, though. But that's getting ahead of yourself.
thatone Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Yes. I think men who comment on how "most men are *******s" are feminized men who are not comfortable with their masculinity and/or sexuality. Most of them have been brainwashed by "victimized" mothers. ding ding, winner. the biggest hurdle for these lonely 20 something year old men who complain about not attracting women is for them to realize that yes, even the stuff their mothers told them (which is straight from oprah or some women's supermarket magazine), is straight up bullsh*t.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Don't be down on yourself! That helps nothing. Read the Tao of Dating for Men. Try to do something that brings you great self-esteem, particularly something social (I have a friend who did poetry readings to boost it, I've recommended several people take improv lessons, even just joining more groups and such is helpful). I feel most ok with myself and most happy and confident when I'm playing basketball (maybe it's just the endorphins I don't know). I'm not necessarily super competitive about it and I'm not Michael Jordan, but among the people I play with (all above average players) I'm always playing the best and I have fun. So I have stuff that make me happy and content, I just think I think too much about this "dating" thing. I need to learn to let it go sometimes I guess. Re: minimum dating history I don't usually go for men with no relationship experience either, but I've lived with a man (didn't work out), been engaged (he died), had LTRs. It's just hard to go backwards (it's not about the physicality; it's about the communication, compatibility, and life training relationships give you). I know girls my age or even a few years older who've never had a serious relationship though (I'm 26) and that's at the higher point of your age range, likely, so I wouldn't worry about that view yet. You're still young! Ruby is a decent deal older, so I'm sure the number of women like that at her age are less. Yeah we went over this in the thread from a few months ago. I understand that people have the standards that they have, and obviously you have quite a bit of relationship experience and it's probably more about being able to relate to a guy more than anything else. So that's not an issue much anymore. I don't know any women in my social circle who like goatees. Many like beards, but mustaches and goatees are generally thought to = creepy (or sometimes mustaches alone = super duper hipster, if you're into that thing, and it's a hipster 'stache). That's the only issue in the looks you describe I see as being an issue. T-shirt and jeans never bothers me; that's what my BF wears most of the time. As far as your living situation goes, it's not ideal, but at 23, I'm not sure it'd be a dealbreaker, particularly if you date girls slightly younger. Sounds like it'd hamper your sex life, though. But that's getting ahead of yourself. Well, that's good to know that living with my parents won't be a big handicap. For a while I thought about postponing any attempts at dating until I had my own place. And as for the goatee, it's here to stay. I highly doubt having a goatee is keeping women away. And, like I said, I like my goatee. I did forget to mention I do wear glasses. I used to be able to wear contacts (and honestly I'd prefer contacts) but for whatever reason I can no longer comfortably wear them they irritate my eyes.
zengirl Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Well, that's good to know that living with my parents won't be a big handicap. For a while I thought about postponing any attempts at dating until I had my own place. I wouldn't date someone just out of college without a job (but I've been out of college for six years so it's different) but I actually did go on a few dates with a man who moved home for a bit to save up. We didn't work out, but that was not the reason at all that I lost interest. He was actually a pretentious jerkface (nice to me, but always snippy about other people)---very smart but one of those guys who needs to tell you how smart he is all the time. But his living at home wasn't an issue. I think if both people lived at home, though it'd be hard to date. And as for the goatee, it's here to stay. I highly doubt having a goatee is keeping women away. And, like I said, I like my goatee. I did forget to mention I do wear glasses. I used to be able to wear contacts (and honestly I'd prefer contacts) but for whatever reason I can no longer comfortably wear them they irritate my eyes. I think glasses are cute, provided they're the right glasses. And, hey, lookswise, do what you will with your facial hair. I wasn't trying to be pushy---just trying to put out there anything that might be objectionable. Knowing is half the battle. And it used to be girls I know didn't like beards either, and now they're all the rage. Things could certainly be different than what I've heard/scene.
Dust Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I used to just say don’t get advice from women on dating. Now I like to add don’t get advice from men either. You make your own reality as you perceive it. The best way to make that reality is to think positively and not stress yourself out. Now even though I said don’t listen to men they are good for one thing relating to. The same way hearing from women is good for humanizing them. So as a man I’d like to say I once to had a very defeatist nice guys finish last attitude. It’s very thought ending to think like that. What is a nice guy? Well who knows! What I do know is when I finally got horny enough to go after women as best I could and stop making excuses like “she’s busy, people will think I’m a creep” things worked out great. Seriously I used to shy away and make excuses not to ask girls out. Then one day I stopped and things worked out and from that point forward I was great with women. When I say great with women I don’t mean I slept with 100 women or anything like that. I mean it wasn’t a problem for me anymore. I didn’t have that feeling I would lose any girl who liked me or if single I’d never be able to get an attractive gf. I was confident and enjoyed the chase. I enjoyed my relationship too and had sex I enjoyed instead of worrying or what not. It was good. So I can’t tell you what to do, you can’t read it or learn it from any one but yourself. You have every motivation to live life to the fullest so stop stressing yourself out with made up crap and go for it. Just going for it is the battle.
zengirl Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 So I can’t tell you what to do, you can’t read it or learn it from any one but yourself. You have every motivation to live life to the fullest so stop stressing yourself out with made up crap and go for it. Just going for it is the battle. Not bad advice at all. Though you can get inspiration from everywhere. I don't think good ideas come from a vacuum either. Listening to advice has helped me, but in the end, I helped myself. But I used people and books and inspiration to get there.
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Well, I've been on three dates in the past two years with two different women. One was a girl I had gone to school with years ago who I had been chatting with online and the other was a girl I met on OKC. I generally have a hard time approaching strange women with the intention of asking them out or flirting etc., since I don't know what to say I just ignore them. I try online dating but my messages are never replied to. The dates didn't go horribly, but when I tried to ask the girls out again I always got the run around or they just never called me back, so obviously I was doing something wrong. It kind of sounds like a numbers game for you, the more you try the better chance you will have. In all honesty dude you are way better of than me when it comes to getting women. I din't win the genetic lottery. As for what to say to women. You don't necessarily have to say much. You don't always have to befriend women before asking them out. For me it actually has worked out better when I make my intentions known early in the game. If conversation isn't your strong point, be brief. Say you are at a bar and you see a cute girl. Go up to her and say "Me and my friends are just about to leave but, I couldn't help noticing you and I just had to come talk to you." If you have personal confidence issue nobody else can say/do anything that will make that go away. You have to be honest and ask yourself "do I like how things are right now? Do I want to keep going in this direction?" if the answer is no then it is up to you and you alone to make the change.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I must have missed this before, in the midst of all the fighting! I'd date someone who had never dated before. But I'm not overweight, and not socially awkward (for the most part), just inexperienced. So, if I met a girl who was in shape (like me) and not socially awkward (also like me) but was inexperienced I'd definitely give her a chance. That sounds fair. It sounds to me like you're well on your way. Inexperience can be a handicap. It's not the inexperience itself, but the accompanying self-doubt, fear, and lack of confidence that probably trip up most inexperienced guys. But it sounds to me like you're taking all the right steps. Just keep going for it, keep learning, and I'm sure you'll meet someone great. But the thing is, most relationships fail, especially your earlier ones, so make sure you are solid on your own. Don't go looking for some woman to "complete you". Be complete on your own.
Dust Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Not bad advice at all. Though you can get inspiration from everywhere. I don't think good ideas come from a vacuum either. Listening to advice has helped me, but in the end, I helped myself. But I used people and books and inspiration to get there. Maybe I should have said advice needs to be put in context. That context has to come from living your life instead of just continuously asking for advice. If you read a book about cooking but never cook then I hope the point was just the entertainment of reading. These guys are here for more then the entertainment of just talking about this so they need to take that extra step and do what it is they know they want to.
Author fetish1980 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Posted August 9, 2011 "Well, even so, I think most of these "nice guys" are probably not statistical outliers in terms of facial attractiveness. The way people describe them in this thread it sounds more like they just strike people as creepy (given that they whine and complain or just sort of hover around waiting for the girl to fall for them)." You are right here. A good looking guy can be a sniveling chump, but he will still get a lot of approaches, interest, etc. It's not very likely he'll **** all of these up. On the other hand a guy who likes like shrek will need a huge amount of charisma/aseertiveness and even then it might a lost cause(barring money and power). Most of your typical nice guys are not so far gone that they can't get women. Maybe not a supermodel, but there are a ton of women at their level. I think the main thing is "nice guys" are afraid to act in a sexual way around women and walk on eggshells to not come off as a pig. They'll bring a trembling hand to within an inch of a women ten times before getting the courage to touch her. I'm sure women can pick up the awkwardness/fear in their interactions and get turned off. And who can blame these guys? Your typical american white collar kid is told from grade school he must respect women, not view them as sexual objects, unwanted touching is harassment, women want to be comfortable before you do this stuff, etc. In short he has it hammered into him that it's wrong to be an assertive, sexual man, which is what women want. This is born out in the fear and hesitation in a typical "nice guy's" behavior. Ans women dont do men any favors because they muddy the waters. They parrot that pc nonsense theyve been told makes a good man by the media/schoolother women, but is bs. 12-13 years of brainwashing cant undo a million years of evolution to prefer assertiveness and dominance. END OF THREAD Free schooling. Good points man! fetish
grkBoy Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Well the title says it all yall. Men, you can chime in on this too! Women, is it true that even though you may say "want" a nice guy, one who will treat you nice, wait on you , and ultimately be there for you, you all ultimately go for the Bad Boy? When i say Bad Boy, i don't necessarily mean those guys who slap you around and go around robbing and kicking people's faces in. I'm really talking about the ones that put themselves first, don't wait around on you and just flat out act like they have something else going on in life and you're not the first priority. It's been my experience, that nice guys finish last. The guy women complain about is the one they sleep with first. Even if you're a nice guy that gives her no reason to complain, she begins to take them for chumps while the bad boys are viewed as more manly, strong, and confident. Therefore, the nice guy might end up getting the shaft. So what do women really want? They don't want a nice guy, claim they don't want a macho jerk, but yet it seems that those are the guys they end up subconciously falling for first. Give me some thoughts fetish This topic has been done to death...and I'll give my usual response (only keeping it short). WOMEN want men who treat them well.GIRLS want challenges that usually end up hurting them...and they'll get burned over and over until they grow up.FEMALES want attractive males. That means the "nice guy" can't just be an ugly slob and expect people to "accept him".MALES need to stop chasing and hoping for GIRLS to pick them because they're good to them. Abandon the ones who honestly show they only want to chase drama and abuse.FEMALES want MEN who have lives and don't make "finding a woman" their only priority. They want INTERESTING men who DO THINGS and HAVE A LIFE. They also want men who DRESS WELL and TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES (physically, mentally, and financially). Forget nice guy and bad boy. There are desirable men and undesirable men. The goal should be to make yourself into a desirable man. Period. BTW...women love guys who look great, have a life, take care of themselves, AND treat women well...as well as be loyal and committed.
Author fetish1980 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Posted August 10, 2011 thanks for replying grkboy. but so what if the topic has been done to death? What's really the big deal of discussing it again and getting different viewpoints? Life is nothing but a history of events and we all know what they say about history, it repeats itself. And Honestly, i really don't have the time to search through old threads looking for the topic. Nonetheless, your points make a whole lot of sense. Especially number 5. But i still think that women (even those over 30) want a guy that's interesting and a little mysterious. So that could be a challenge in itself, although it might be slightly less daunting. Maybe the term "bad boy" really belongs to teenagers, but they can still be a bad boy by being a little mysterious and not so available all the time fetish
KathyM Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Well the title says it all yall. Men, you can chime in on this too! Women, is it true that even though you may say "want" a nice guy, one who will treat you nice, wait on you , and ultimately be there for you, you all ultimately go for the Bad Boy? When i say Bad Boy, i don't necessarily mean those guys who slap you around and go around robbing and kicking people's faces in. I'm really talking about the ones that put themselves first, don't wait around on you and just flat out act like they have something else going on in life and you're not the first priority. It's been my experience, that nice guys finish last. The guy women complain about is the one they sleep with first. Even if you're a nice guy that gives her no reason to complain, she begins to take them for chumps while the bad boys are viewed as more manly, strong, and confident. Therefore, the nice guy might end up getting the shaft. So what do women really want? They don't want a nice guy, claim they don't want a macho jerk, but yet it seems that those are the guys they end up subconciously falling for first. Give me some thoughts fetish Nice women want nice guys. They don't want a jerk. Nice women dump guys that are jerks. Although I've been married for quite some time to a nice guy, the guy I dated before him was a bit of a jerk in one way, so I dumped him. My sister is heavily into the dating scene, and as soon as a guy shows any jerky characteristics, he's history. Most women want to be treated well. Being manly, strong and confident does not equate to being a jerk.
Cracker Jack Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 This topic has been done to death...and I'll give my usual response (only keeping it short). WOMEN want men who treat them well.GIRLS want challenges that usually end up hurting them...and they'll get burned over and over until they grow up.FEMALES want attractive males. That means the "nice guy" can't just be an ugly slob and expect people to "accept him".MALES need to stop chasing and hoping for GIRLS to pick them because they're good to them. Abandon the ones who honestly show they only want to chase drama and abuse.FEMALES want MEN who have lives and don't make "finding a woman" their only priority. They want INTERESTING men who DO THINGS and HAVE A LIFE. They also want men who DRESS WELL and TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES (physically, mentally, and financially). Forget nice guy and bad boy. There are desirable men and undesirable men. The goal should be to make yourself into a desirable man. Period. BTW...women love guys who look great, have a life, take care of themselves, AND treat women well...as well as be loyal and committed. I needed to read that ages ago. Really, that's what it comes down to. And I'm someone who's been obsessed with this discussion longer than I should've been. Great post.
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