azsinglegal Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I think sometimes they're just scammin' and they don't really even believe it. A lot of times it's "Look how different I am!" syndrome, and a lot of times, it's very much intentionally done. It's a really line of bad game in terms of effiacy, but they're trying to be playas. Every time I hear a guy say how "different" he is cracks me up because I know it's a load of crap. Show me you're different, don't tell me.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I think sometimes they're just scammin' and they don't really even believe it. A lot of times it's "Look how different I am!" syndrome, and a lot of times, it's very much intentionally done. It's a really line of bad game in terms of effiacy, but they're trying to be playas. I have never gotten this line from player types. They are more like, "Yeah, men can be *******s, and so can I." The honesty is refreshing. You know what you're in for. It's the nerdy nice guys who like to pretend they are above the typical shenanigans of men. And some of them are -- but I'd bet money that many of them would not be if they weren't such people pleasers who'd been browbeaten into woman-worshipping submission by their mean mommies.
rafallus Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Perfect example of bunch of self-proclaimed nice guys:
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 "Well, even so, I think most of these "nice guys" are probably not statistical outliers in terms of facial attractiveness. The way people describe them in this thread it sounds more like they just strike people as creepy (given that they whine and complain or just sort of hover around waiting for the girl to fall for them)." You are right here. A good looking guy can be a sniveling chump, but he will still get a lot of approaches, interest, etc. It's not very likely he'll **** all of these up. On the other hand a guy who likes like shrek will need a huge amount of charisma/aseertiveness and even then it might a lost cause(barring money and power). Most of your typical nice guys are not so far gone that they can't get women. Maybe not a supermodel, but there are a ton of women at their level. I think the main thing is "nice guys" are afraid to act in a sexual way around women and walk on eggshells to not come off as a pig. They'll bring a trembling hand to within an inch of a women ten times before getting the courage to touch her. I'm sure women can pick up the awkwardness/fear in their interactions and get turned off. And who can blame these guys? Your typical american white collar kid is told from grade school he must respect women, not view them as sexual objects, unwanted touching is harassment, women want to be comfortable before you do this stuff, etc. In short he has it hammered into him that it's wrong to be an assertive, sexual man, which is what women want. This is born out in the fear and hesitation in a typical "nice guy's" behavior. Ans women dont do men any favors because they muddy the waters. They parrot that pc nonsense theyve been told makes a good man by the media/schoolother women, but is bs. 12-13 years of brainwashing cant undo a million years of evolution to prefer assertiveness and dominance. END OF THREAD For once in my life I actually agree with you for the most part. I do think there's a difference between the awkward nice guys and the nice guys who are using niceness as a ruse to get into a girl's pants though. The latter is the type of nice guys women tend to find creepy, the former are the type who end up as the 40 year old virgin.
sally4sara Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Perfect example of bunch of self-proclaimed nice guys: Beautiful. Now if only we could get past this part......
PJKino Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I have never gotten this line from player types. They are more like, "Yeah, men can be *******s, and so can I." The honesty is refreshing. You know what you're in for. It's the nerdy nice guys who like to pretend they are above the typical shenanigans of men. And some of them are -- but I'd bet money that many of them would not be if they weren't such people pleasers who'd been browbeaten into woman-worshipping submission by their mean mommies. And maybe some of them are nice because they are just genuinely nice people with no agenda Edited July 28, 2011 by PJKino
zengirl Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I have never gotten this line from player types. They are more like, "Yeah, men can be *******s, and so can I." The honesty is refreshing. You know what you're in for. It's the nerdy nice guys who like to pretend they are above the typical shenanigans of men. And some of them are -- but I'd bet money that many of them would not be if they weren't such people pleasers who'd been browbeaten into woman-worshipping submission by their mean mommies. They're not the traditional player types (or at least that's not what I meant). That is the line of choice for nerdy players though. There ARE nerdy players. They just have a really lame game, as I said.
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 For once in my life I actually agree with you for the most part. I do think there's a difference between the awkward nice guys and the nice guys who are using niceness as a ruse to get into a girl's pants though. The latter is the type of nice guys women tend to find creepy, the former are the type who end up as the 40 year old virgin. LOL, that is one of my favorite movies. Its funny cause so much of it is true. One of the best lines from the movie: "You know what? I respect women! I love women! I respect them so much that I completely stay away from them! " :lmao:
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 LOL, that is one of my favorite movies. Its funny cause so much of it is true. One of the best lines from the movie: "You know what? I respect women! I love women! I respect them so much that I completely stay away from them! " :lmao: That's my favorite line from the movie too. Unfortunately it's also my life's motto
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 That's my favorite line from the movie too. Unfortunately it's also my life's motto How old are you? There is always time to change.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 How old are you? There is always time to change. I'm 23. I just graduated college, I live at home (while looking for work) but I've never so much as kissed a girl or held hands with one. I mean sure there's time to change, but for a while now I've been pretty down on myself (due to my failures with women).
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I'm 23. I just graduated college, I live at home (while looking for work) but I've never so much as kissed a girl or held hands with one. I mean sure there's time to change, but for a while now I've been pretty down on myself (due to my failures with women). Another classic from the 40 year old virgin: "And once you've done slayed like of them hood rats... now you ready to go up to the upper echelon type ho.You know what I mean?" - David "I'm not a big ho runner." - Andy You are still young...at least you aren't one_goal:eek: Are you doing all you can do to make yourself more attractive? Lose weight ,clean shave, good haircut, decent clothes. And shoes don't forget the shoes. Every GF I have ever had told me she notices shoes. Make a thread, there are some really smart girls on here like zengirl and ruby I am sure they would be willing to give you some tips on what to do. You have to be honest though. If you aren't stellar in the looks department you gotta work on it. My only advice is don't pay for a hooker.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Make a thread, there are some really smart girls on here like zengirl and ruby I am sure they would be willing to give you some tips on what to do. You have to be honest though. If you aren't stellar in the looks department you gotta work on it. Thanks. And there are a lot of experienced, older, wiser men on this forum who can probably give the young men much better dating advice than the ladies can.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 And maybe some of them are nice because they are just genuinely nice people with no agenda Sure. But I think comments about how most men are *******s and most women are bitches are red flags. Would you want to date a woman who insisted that 95% of women are bitches, except the angels like her? I wouldn't.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 You are still young...at least you aren't one_goal:eek: I'm convinced he's a troll. I no longer read any of his threads. Are you doing all you can do to make yourself more attractive? Lose weight ,clean shave, good haircut, decent clothes. And shoes don't forget the shoes. Every GF I have ever had told me she notices shoes. I have an athletic/muscular build. Not quite the look of a marathon runner, but not a body builder either. Kinda like Thomas Jane's look in The Punisher. So I'm in good physical shape. I have a goatee, and a while ago a mustache and a goatee. I'm probably just going to keep the goatee, I don't like how I look without it. I keep it neatly trimmed though so I don't look like ZZ Top or anything. Clothes, I'm usually just wearing a nice t-shirt and jeans. That's the style I typically look best in. I know it doesn't jive with the intellectual nature of my personality but it looks good and feels good. I usually wear a nice pair of sneakers or some boots. Make a thread, there are some really smart girls on here like zengirl and ruby I am sure they would be willing to give you some tips on what to do. You have to be honest though. If you aren't stellar in the looks department you gotta work on it. My only advice is don't pay for a hooker. I've made threads before, most of the time they end up with: try online dating (tried it and I'm still trying it), be more assertive and "try" (and Ruby usually takes a disdainful view of inexperienced guys so I'm not going to go there). I'm not comfortable with approaching random women in the supermarket or bookstore yet (Dust's suggested strategy) but I'm skeptical as to whether or not that would work either. Not to mention probably most women would find my living situation to be a turnoff. And I'm not going for a hooker, for multiple reasons.
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) ^^^^^ t-shirt and jeans isn't a good look, its an okay look. I have to dress professionally everyday and a when I think of a good look, I think of George Clooney in Oceans 11. You don't have to go that far but you have to step it up from t-shirt and jeans. Well you have to go where the women are. Malls, parties bars clubs etc... Never did online dating so can't help you out there. Do you have trouble conversing with women? I do not think a mall is necessarily a good place to actually pick up women but, If you have trouble speaking with them you should go to a starbucks or a department store and start talking to the hottest girl you can find. Smile, maintain eye contact and maybe through in a joke or 2. It will just get used to being around beautiful women. I am kind of disappointed in ruby because she wouldn't help, there are a lot of genuinely nice guys who don't have the best of luck, some of us need more guidance. Edited July 28, 2011 by ptp
Woggle Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Sure. But I think comments about how most men are *******s and most women are bitches are red flags. Would you want to date a woman who insisted that 95% of women are bitches, except the angels like her? I wouldn't. Exactly. There are nice men and women and there are bad men and women. Has nothing to do with gender.
Queen Zenobia Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 ^^^^^ t-shirt and jeans isn't a good look, its an okay look. I have to dress professionally everyday and a when I think of a good look, I think of George Clooney in Oceans 11. You don't have to go that far but you have to step it up from t-shirt and jeans. Well you have to go where the women are. Malls, parties bars clubs etc... Never did online dating so can't help you out there. Do you have trouble conversing with women? I do not think a mall is necessarily a good place to actually pick up women but, If you have trouble speaking with them you should go to a starbucks or a department store and start talking to the hottest girl you can find. Smile, maintain eye contact and maybe through in a joke or 2. It will just get used to being around beautiful women. I am kind of disappointed in ruby because she wouldn't help, there are a lot of genuinely nice guys who don't have the best of luck, some of us need more guidance. A t-shirt and jeans is a fine look provided he's not dressing like a grease monkey. My fiance has to dress nicely for work and when he's not at work he wears a t-shirt and jeans any chance he gets (in fact when I first met him that's exactly what he was wearing and it wasn't a turnoff). And we're not country/rural folk either. Besides he's 23, how many 23 year olds are running around dressing like George Clooney? From what I've seen of his (49322's) posts he just seems to lack confidence. I don't know what to suggest to get him confidence but I'm sure that's part of the key.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 ...and Ruby usually takes a disdainful view of inexperienced guys so I'm not going to go there Not really. I might express disdain toward some of their bitter, insulated views and sense of entitlement, but not toward them as people. A male LSer and I are exchanging PMs right now. He is somewhat inexperienced with women and dating asked me for some advice, which I am giving. I also encouraged him to ask for advice from some of the smart older guys on the forum, who have direct experience to draw from.
Woggle Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 If a man is okay with wearing it and is confident he can go out in a Donald Duck costume and do well.
ptp Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 A t-shirt and jeans is a fine look provided he's not dressing like a grease monkey. My fiance has to dress nicely for work and when he's not at work he wears a t-shirt and jeans any chance he gets (in fact when I first met him that's exactly what he was wearing and it wasn't a turnoff). And we're not country/rural folk either. Besides he's 23, how many 23 year olds are running around dressing like George Clooney? From what I've seen of his (49322's) posts he just seems to lack confidence. I don't know what to suggest to get him confidence but I'm sure that's part of the key. t-shirt and jeans is fine if you are hanging out with the boys. If you are going out on a friday night you should probably step it up. Some of the places in the city I live won't even let in a guy who is wearing t-shirt and jeans. I never said he should look like George Clooney. I said that is the look I aspire for. We all should have a goal to shoot for right?
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Not really. I might express disdain toward some of their bitter, insulated views and sense of entitlement, but not toward them as people. A male LSer and I are exchanging PMs right now. He is somewhat inexperienced with women and dating asked me for some advice, which I am giving. I also encouraged him to ask for advice from some of the smart older guys on the forum, who have direct experience to draw from. On multiple occasions you wrote that the inexperienced men should date "overweight, and anti-social" women. Now perhaps that was tongue in cheek humor (in which case I will retract my statement), but it's a massive failure as serious advice. I am in shape, I'm at least decent looking, and I'm not anti-social (I just tend to be a little shy around some women but I have plenty of friends) why in the world would I be interested in a girl I wasn't attracted to and who was anti-social?
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 t-shirt and jeans is fine if you are hanging out with the boys. If you are going out on a friday night you should probably step it up. Some of the places in the city I live won't even let in a guy who is wearing t-shirt and jeans. Well, I don't think I would go to a nice establishment dressed in a t-shirt and jeans. But, at the same time I've never been to a place where nicer attire is necessary or even recommended. I mean right now my time is spent a) looking for employment in my field b) hanging out with my friends/family c) playing basketball d) going to the gym e) reading. Hanging out includes, road trips, concerts, movies etc. (just to clarify). I don't go to bars and I don't go to clubs.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 On multiple occasions you wrote that the inexperienced men should date "overweight, and anti-social" women. Now perhaps that was tongue in cheek humor (in which case I will retract my statement), but it's a massive failure as serious advice. I am in shape, I'm at least decent looking, and I'm not anti-social (I just tend to be a little shy around some women but I have plenty of friends) why in the world would I be interested in a girl I wasn't attracted to and who was anti-social? I believe that comment was in response to a thread where an overweight, socially awkward, late 20-something virgin was asking what kind of women he should go for, realistically. I think it was iris who threw out that he should go for women just like him -- overweight and socially awkward -- and I agreed. But of course, to a 20-something virgin who's saturated his brain with airbrushed porn and celebrity imagery, that's just unthinkable. He said he wants a thin, in-shape, pretty woman. And iris pointed out that, duh, that's what all men want, so he's going to need to kick things up quite a bit if he wants to compete. And men accuse women of living in fantasy land! This is reality. Does it hurt your feelings? Well, that's life. Accept the realities and do something about it, or stop complaining. If I were overweight and socially awkward, I would not expect to attract a good-looking, in shape, socially well-adjusted man. I would go for men on my level, or work to improve myself and my prospects.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I believe that comment was in response to a thread where an overweight, socially awkward, late 20-something virgin was asking what kind of women he should go for, realistically. I think it was iris who threw out that he should go for women just like him -- overweight and socially awkward -- and I agreed. One was in response to a particular person, yes, another was a generalized comment though. It was as if you assumed that tough luck with dating automatically equals overweight and socially awkward. But of course, to a 20-something virgin who's saturated his brain with airbrushed porn and celebrity imagery, that's just unthinkable. He said he wants a thin, in-shape, pretty woman. And iris pointed out that, duh, that's what all men want, so he's going to need to kick things up quite a bit if he wants to compete. And men accuse women of living in fantasy land! Again, so much stereotyping. The last several girls I dated (who ultimately walked away) were not in any way supermodels. They were cute sure, but not some "fantasy girl". My standards are quite realistic. Some people just have trouble being assertive in the attraction stage of dating. Maybe it's easy for you and guys you know, but it's not easy for me. But, perhaps I should just "date down" since I have an inexperience handicap (according to your logic). This is reality. Does it hurt your feelings? Well, that's life. Accept the realities and do something about it, or stop complaining. If I were overweight and socially awkward, I would not expect to attract a good-looking, in shape, socially well-adjusted man. I would go for men on my level, or work to improve myself and my prospects. But, if you were in shape, not socially awkward (except perhaps around men you were interested in) and otherwise had your life together would you go looking for a man who wasn't? Would you take kindly to those suggesting that you should? You know what fine. I'm going to ask out the most unattractive woman I can find. After all that's a perfectly wonderful strategy.
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