Will I ever be ok...

[sbpm]

I've read a few posts on here but never posted anything but I'm at my wits end with this...

 

I guess I'll fill in a little background here.

 

I met this girl about a year ago and fell hard for her, I'd never been in love before, not like this at least. Everything was amazing, I thought for sure I'd met the girl I was going to marry, without a doubt. I'd put money aside to buy her a ring and even talked to her parents about it.

 

However a few months into our relationship she changed, she became abusive and rude. She would lie to me about a lot, she would hide talking to other guys from me. She would get mad and call me names, etc... She always apologized in the end and we always reconciled but a lot of it was pretty awful. She would sell me out to get drunk, come home at 4am on drugs. She was crazy jealous and would flip out if I talked to other girls, meanwhile she was hiding a whole bunch of stuff from me. I was never anything but 100% honest with her. I was a father to her son, as much of a handful as he was. I did anything and everything for her. I'd plan my day around stopping off at her work to give her a kiss or bring her something. I neglected the rest of my life just for her, family and friends included.

 

Nonetheless, despite the ****ty things she did to me it never once changed the way I felt.

 

Time and time again I threatened to leave but she always managed to call my bluff, she knew I wasn't going anywhere. How could I? I was so head over heels for this girl, being without her was awful. I'd leave her only to have her beg for me back, promising me a change and I fell for it more times than I'd like to admit.

 

Finally after months and months of abuse I started to get resentful, I started to lash out. I had a hard time keeping my temper under control and I became the "*******", it gave her tons of ammo against me when I'd blow my top based on all of the stuff I'd bottled up for so long.

 

The time before we finally broke up for good I walked away, completely ignored her for weeks, wrote her a letter explaining exactly how I felt and that I was not coming back. She wrote me the sweetest letter ever and came over crying, and again I took her back.

 

At this point she had made a change, and started to treat me better but it was too late. I was too broken inside to continue to put up the facade of "everything's ok" because it certainly wasn't. I almost resented being so in love with her simply based on how bad she was to me.

 

My birthday came around, the plan was to spend the days leading up to my birthday together. Instead, she made a whole bunch of excuses why she couldn't spend the day(s) with me until I told her to beat it, and I'd spend my birthday with my friends. She called me on my birthday and begged me to let her come see me. I agreed, and somehow she yet again managed to turn it into a fight and I blew up, told her to **** off completely.

 

This time, I actually meant it. After months of my friends and family telling me to leave I finally listened. I was done. I didn't care how much it was going to hurt I was going to get through it, because it was better than feeling so broken all the time.

 

About a week goes by and of course I start to miss her. I give in and I call her at midnight from a blocked number. She answers and I hear some guy in the background say "Who's on the phone baby?". My knees give out, I fall to the floor and cried for god knows how long.

 

I texted her to say "that was quick..." and she gave me a long rant of how I told her I wasn't coming back and should just move on (which is true, I did tell her to move on) but a week? Ok.... Anyway I got over the initial shock of her moving on so quickly. I tried to be her friend, I wanted to get her back, so I put up with listening about all the **** she was doing without me in her life for weeks. I lied to her about hanging/talking to any other girls as she would freak out on me (even though she had a new boyfriend, go figure). We would still see each other, make out, sleep together, etc... all behind her new boyfriends back.

 

One night we got into another fight and I told her to just go away, I spent the weekend out of town with another girl. Was an awesome weekend, she's a great girl, we're still seeing each other now, but this is besides the point.

 

I come back from my weekend out of town and she texts me with a message saying she misses me and wants to hang out. We got to talking and she asked me if I had slept with this girl I hung out with. I told her the truth, that I had as I thought it might drill the point across that I wasn't coming back. After weeks of telling me how much her new boyfriend was nothing compared to me and how she wanted me back, etc... her tune changed. He suddenly became amazing, they were going to move in together, she was falling for him...I cut off contact again.

 

I was ok for about a week until it finally hit me how much I missed her, I haven't stopped crying since. I have a new girl who's good to me but for some reason, even 2 months later I can't shake these feelings. Sometimes I'm ok other times I literally feel like I'm going absolutely insane. I break down randomly, I need to pull over while driving sometimes because I can't stop crying. I picture them together and it kills me.

 

I'm sorry for the long read but I just needed to get it out...I've never had my heart broken before. I'm certainly broken my fair share, maybe this is my karma. It just doesn't seem fair that she gets to carry on happy, not giving a **** like I meant nothing meanwhile I get to feel like complete crap even though I was the one who left...

 

I know someday I'll be better. I've never had an issue dealing with emotio9nal pain and it's usually pretty easy for me to get over stuff but this...I just can't shake it....I've finally started eating again but fk I am still so broken inside....

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (PS We haven't talked in a week and I refuse to talk to her/answer or anything if she calls)

 

Thanks.

[sbpm]

I guess I should ask a more specific question.

 

I've never been in a relationship that ended where I had such a hard time afterwards. But I'm literally getting worse each day. I don' t understand it.

 

What am I doing wrong? I've surrounded myself with loved ones, I'm eating healthy, working out lots, putting my energy into my work but I just don't seem to get better. The days are ok but the nights are where I really start to break down...

 

The last time we spoke was this past Tuesday, should I assume that from that point on the "real" healing began as we still had been talking to each other before then...I don't get it...

 

I don't want her back, by any means, I'm "happier" without her, I just want to be ok again and I'm SO far from it. As pathetic and immature as it sounds it's really not fair that she gets to be happy and carefree with her new boyfriend (whom she claimed she wasn't even really that fond of until she found out I had slept with someone else) meanwhile I get to feel like complete ****. I was the one who left her, you'd think I'd be overjoyed, feeling free, getting away from something so toxic...

Edited July 24, 2011 by sbpm

[Downtown]

Sbpm, welcome to the LS forum. The behavior you describe -- temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, constant blaming, always being "the victim," black-white thinking, inappropriate anger, a cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD is a determination only a professional can make.

 

Yet, even when the traits fall well short of that level, they can easily undermine a relationship and make your life miserable. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a woman you've known for a year. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and constant blaming. Indeed, you've already spotted such traits.

 

I therefore will share with you what I learned from living with my BPDer exW for 15 years. I am not psychologist. Rather, I am just a man who would like to help younger people avoid going down the path I and my exW were on for 15 years. That path will be painful to both of you and does not end well.

Everything was amazing, I thought for sure I'd met the girl I was going to marry, without a doubt.

BPDers are very easy to fall in love with because, when they are good, they are very VERY good. If your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits), the wonderful adoring personality you saw during the first six months never really existed. You fell in love -- as I did -- with a reflected image of your best qualities. Likely due to heredity and childhood trauma, a BPDer is unable to develop an integrated self image at age 3 or 4. She therefore grows up having only a weak and unstable sense of who she really is. This is why your exGF likely acts differently around different people. To ground herself and provide a sense of how she should behave, she figures out how other people expect her to behave and then she acts in that manner. She has been doing this since childhood.

 

Hence, when she became infatuated with you, she continued doing the very same thing -- except that she pulled out all the stops and put enormous energy into it. That is, she adopted all of your preferences, suddenly liking all the people you like and enjoying all the things you enjoy. Moreover, she emulated all of your best personality features, reflecting all of the best qualities you have to offer. A BPDer typically does this so perfectly that the partner is convinced he has met his "soul mate." The result is that you came the closest you will ever come in your lifetime to making love to yourself.

 

It would be a serious mistake to think of that mirroring process as manipulation. If you think that way, you are greatly underestimating the damage your exGF suffered in early childhood because you are not understanding her need to do "acting" ever since childhood in order to survive, fit in, and be loved.

However a few months into our relationship she changed, she became abusive and rude. She would lie to me about a lot.

It also would be a mistake to think you can ever restore that wonderful honeymoon period -- which typically lasts up to six months. It cannot be restored because it could only exist while your exGF idealized you to the point of feeling you were a perfect man. Yes, she will still go through a cycle of idealizing and demonizing you, but the idealization will never again be that complete. Absent the idealization, her twin fears of engulfment and abandonment cannot be held at bay as they were during the honeymoon period.

 

After the infatuation wears off, she would start returning to her unstable self, becoming resentful of doing things she no longer enjoys. Significantly, instead of admitting to herself that her preferences changed, a BPDer will often "rewrite history" in her mind -- becoming convinced that she never really enjoyed doing those things. The honeymoon is replaced, then, with an unending cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

 

This cycle is the result of a BPDer's twin fears: engulfment and abandonment. Because your exGF likely has an unstable fragile self image, any time you draw close in intimacy (real intimacy, not just sex) she will experience engulfment. It is very frightening because she feels like she is being taken over by your strong personality -- like she is evaporating into thin air. To get breathing room, she will push you away. It may happen that same night or the next morning, usually taking the form of her creating an argument out of nothing.

 

Yet, as you back off to give her space, you will trigger her greatest fear, abandonment. So, after her tantrum dies down (they typically last about five hours), she may wait a few hours (or days or weeks) and will start reeling you back in. Of course, as you draw close, the cycle starts all over again. For 15 years, I kept hunting for the "Goldilocks" position between "too close" and "too far" to avoid triggering both of those fears. I can tell you that, if that safe midpoint position exists at all, it is a knife edge that is continually shifting.

She would sell me out to get drunk, come home at 4am on drugs.

Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they generally have little impulse control -- leading them to engage in risky behavior like drugs or promiscuous sex. On top of that, they have low self esteem and hate themselves, sometimes resulting in self destructive behavior.

She was crazy jealous and would flip out if I talked to other girls.

If your exGF's BPD traits are strong, she likely is incapable of trusting anyone for an extended period due to her great fear of abandonment. My exW, for example, would get jealous if I looked at another woman for a half-second instead of a quarter-second. And she was jealous of my close relationship to my foster son and other relatives.

I was a father to her son, as much of a handful as he was. I did anything and everything for her. I'd plan my day around stopping off at her work to give her a kiss or bring her something.

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, it is impossible to make her happy. A person can only do that for herself. Without years of intensive therapy from a clinical psychologist, a BPDer remains a bottomless pit of need -- that cannot be filled up. If you are thinking she will eventually become thankful for your gifts and self-sacrifice, please think again. Exactly how long did she ever remain appreciative of anything you did over the past year?

 

In my case, my exW would be thrilled for a few days -- a week tops -- when I would spend a lot of money on her. For example, I bought her $5,000 worth of sewing machines and spent another $6,000 on fabric. Over the 15 years, she made one dress, a vest, and a cat collar. Similarly, I bought her a piano and massage chair, both of which she dearly wanted and begged for. She played the $3,500 piano five times and sat in the $3,000 chair maybe four times.

 

Untreated BPDers cannot appreciate anything for very long. For one thing, BPDers like my exW have an unstable sense of who they are, so they don't know today what they will want in two weeks. For another, strong emotions sweep through them, pushing aside feelings they had before. This is why, with untreated BPDers, you cannot build up a reservoir of good will on which to draw during the bad times. With BPDers, it is always "What have you done for me lately?"

I neglected the rest of my life just for her, family and friends included.

Most likely, your exGF encouraged that neglect. Due to their great fear of abandonment, BPDers are extremely controlling of their partners and such control is much easier done when the partner is isolated from his friends and family members. Absent such support, you will not have anyone around to tell you "That's the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard ...."

Nonetheless, despite the ****ty things she did to me it never once changed the way I felt.... I'd leave her only to have her beg for me back, promising me a change and I fell for it more times than I'd like to admit.

As I noted above, a BPDer will reel you in after pushing you away.

After months of my friends and family telling me to leave I finally listened. I was done.

Your ability to walk away after only a year means you did well. VERY well. A therapist who has treated many BPD couples says that BPD relationships typically last either 18 months or 15 years. They last 18 months, he explains, when the "Non" (i.e., nonBPD partner) has strong personal boundaries. The Non enjoys the 6 month honeymoon period of mirroring and then is willing to spend up to a year trying to reestablish the honeymoon conditions. Then he bails, just as you did.

 

The relationship lasts 15 years, he explains, when the Non has strong codependency traits and thus has low personal boundaries. Such a Non typically never bails. Instead, the BPD leaves him because, as the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of his inability to make her happy or fix her. Also, she may become increasingly fearful of abandonment. This explanation struck a strong chord with me because my relationship lasted 15 years, at which time my wife had me arrested on a trumped up charge and filed a restraining order barring me from my own home for a year and a half (when the divorce was finalized).

She would get mad and call me names

You likely were only triggering anger that was already there. BPDers have enormous anger just under the surface, carried from early childhood. Because the anger is already there, you don't have to create it. You only have to say or do some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can erupt into a rage in only ten seconds. Typically, the rages of a BPDer will last about five hours. A BPDer engages in this childish behavior because her emotional development is stuck at the level of a four year old. To avoid triggering those tantrums, you likely were always walking on eggshells after the honeymoon period ended. This is why the best selling BPD book (targeted to partners of BPDers) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

I'd leave her only to have her beg for me back.

As I said, BPDers have a great fear of abandonment and, because they have no stable self image to guide them, they hate being by themselves. This is why the second-best selling BPD book is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.

It just doesn't seem fair that she gets to carry on happy, not giving a **** like I meant nothing meanwhile I get to feel like complete crap even though I was the one who left...

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, the appearances are very deceiving because she is a very unhappy person. I would not wish these strong traits on my worst enemy.

Even 2 months later I can't shake these feelings. Sometimes I'm ok other times I literally feel like I'm going absolutely insane. I break down randomly, I need to pull over while driving sometimes because I can't stop crying.

Sbpm, of the ten personality disorders (PDs), BPD is the only one that is notorious for making the partner of the BPDer feel like he is going crazy. This is one reason therapists see far more of the partners seeking therapy than they ever do of the BPDers themselves. Hence, if your depression persists, I suggest that you consider going to a clincal psychologist -- for a few sessions -- to obtain professional guidance on recovering from such a toxic relationship.

 

Indeed, this ability of BPDers to induce a crazy feeling is so well known that the ex-partners (at BPD websites targeted to them) have given it a name. They call it "gaslighting." It is named after the 1944 classic movie Gaslight, in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to have her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels.

I was the one who left her, you'd think I'd be overjoyed, feeling free, getting away from something so toxic.

"Toxic" relationships are extremely difficult to break free from. If such relationships were all bad, you would have walked away quickly at the end of the honeymoon period -- without giving it a second thought. What makes these relationships so toxic, then, is that wonderful periods of adoration and passionate sex occur periodically -- just often enough to keep you coming back for more. You always have the feeling that, if only you can figure out what you're doing wrong, you can reestablish the idyllic conditions of the honeymoon period. But doing so is an impossible task.

But I'm literally getting worse each day. I don' t understand it. What am I doing wrong?

I don't believe you are doing anything wrong. Like I said, it is difficult to recover from such a toxic relationship because it is so difficult to give up the passionate sex, being adored periodically as the "savior," letting go of a woman you thought was your "soul mate," and walking away from a sick loved one. I therefore applaud you, Sbpm, for having such healthy self esteem -- and such strong personal boundaries -- that you were able to walk away after only 12 months. You did the right thing. Had you stayed, you would have continued harming your exGF by destroying any chance she has of confronting her issues and learning how to manage them.

 

If you would like to read about another young guy with a similar problem on this forum, I suggest you look at GreenEyedRebel's thread. My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735. If you have any questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to online resources that can. Take care, Sbpm.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Downtown

[sbpm]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

It certainly makes sense, I always said there was something wrong with her.

 

What you've said resonates definitely, it seems to be her routine.

 

Unfortunately she won't ever get the help she needs I don't think, she would never admit to having something wrong with her. She has it in her head that she is god's gift to men. She is very attractive, probably one of the best looking girls I've ever been with and that only serves to feed her issues as other men are always after her.

 

She feeds into too by being a huge flirt, giving her number out behind my back, hanging out with guy's she had slept with and lying to me saying they were long-term friends from "way back when"...

 

Again I thank you for what you wrote, it makes perfect sense. I agree I should pursue a few sessions with a counselor to help deal with some of the fallout of this.

 

I feel bad for my replacement, I really do. He's probably a great guy but will have to endure exactly what I did, not fun.

 

My biggest fear at this point is that she'll come begging for me back, and possibly catch me at a moment of weakness. Here's to hoping that does not happen.

 

Thank you again for your reply, it is much appreciated and you have helped me more than you know.

 

Thanks,

 

S

 

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

 

That certainly hits the nail on the head.

Edited July 24, 2011 by sbpm

[Downtown]

Sbpm, I am glad to hear that you found the BPD information helpful.

Unfortunately she won't ever get the help she needs I don't think, she would never admit to having something wrong with her.

It is rare for a high functioning BPDer to make such an admission, even to herself. One reason is that BPD traits are ego-syntonic, i.e., invisible to her because she has been thinking that way since early childhood. Another reason is that, by acknowledging a flaw or mistake, she perceives herself to be "all bad," as I explained earlier. BPDers do black-white thinking because they are extremely uncomfortable with "gray areas" and mixed feelings.

[wilsonx]

Downtown,

 

Thank you for posting this. I am pretty sure that my ex is bpd. I could never figure her out. I had no clue what was going on. I could never understand the lies, the cheating, and you are right everytime I tried to go away, she would find a way to reel me back in. You're right with the abandonment issues too

 

At 18 months I WAS DONE with this relationship. My body was physically sick because of the psychological stress she caused me. My parents said I looked like I gained 10 years. in the course of the last 3 months of dating her. I did everything possible to try and break up with her but she kept reeling me back in. I could no longer talk face to face with her so I sent her messages on facebook and emails saying I could no longer take this and it needs to end now and this is with her living with me. I was days away from just moving into my parents house when I caught her with the guy I suspected she was cheating on me with, she broke up with me that night and then she WENT CRAZY. I have never seen her in my 3 1/2 years go this crazy. I mean she went psychotic after I caught her. I was almost fearful for my safety. There was no threat of violence but I have never seen this type of behavior from her before. People do not understand why I could not end it with her, it was miserable. I tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried for the last 2 1/2 months

[wilsonx]

SBPM,

 

I do commend you on being able to walk away. I was almost there. People do not understand what the hell we went through. It was miserable. I finally started sleep again normal 7-8 hour cycles after almost 4 months of insomnia. You will get better, I promise you. I tried for over 2 1/2 months to end it and she knew it was coming. She gaslit me like a champ saying I love you and grabbed my hand. After that day I died inside. I am now off auto pilot and living life again. I am 2 months out of the official breakup and over 5 weeks NC from my side. She still sends me emails every now and then saying that I owe her stuff or that we can talk if I want to. She wants me to chase her again and when I tell people this they think Im crazy but I'm sure both of you 2 understand. Its like she wants me to rescue her from what she is doing now and I can no longer do it and I have to heal from this. I have no desire to either. She's very egocentric. The day after she broke up with me she told me that she got her friend to break up with her boyfriend so that she could spend more time with her. This was actually a huge lightbulb in my head of how egocentric she is

 

As for you healing, KEEP MOVING FORWARD. Do everything possible to get her out of your life, give her all her ****, tell her to move on and leave you alone and to respect your boundaries. Now do stuff for you.

 

The best thing I can tell you is that I started working out hardcore. 3 days of running 5 miles 3 days of lifting and 1 day off. I feel great. I went 4 full days of just having her pop in my mind to today where I actually broke down and cried at work. This is a huge improvement, I mean it can only get better

[Downtown]

I did everything possible to try and break up with her but she kept reeling me back in.

Yes, a relationship with a BPDer is extremely hard to leave because it is so addictive to those of us who are caregivers. We don't want to let go of the feeling of being the savior, the knight on a white horse. Moreover, we mistakenly believe that, if we can only figure out what we are doing wrong, we can restore the woman to the perfect "soul mate" we saw during the honeymoon phase.

 

Yet, your statement that "she kept reeling me back in" makes it sounds like the toxicity of the relationship was all her fault. Actually, it takes two willing people to create a toxic relationship. Your contribution to the toxicity was your misguided willingness to keep walking on eggshells, allowing her to keep behaving like a spoiled child throwing tantrums.

 

I mention this because, if you lose sight of your contribution -- i.e., having a desire to be needed that far exceeded your desire to be loved -- you are at risk of running right into the arms of another woman like the one you left. We caregivers tend to walk right past all the stable, emotionally available women (BORING!) until we find a woman who desperately needs us. Absent that desperate neediness, we tend to have trouble feeling that the woman really loves us. That is, we confuse being needed for being loved. And we miss the passion and emotional intensity expressed by emotionally unstable women.

 

So, please keep in mind, Wilson, that after dating such a passionate firecracker of a woman, it likely will take some adjustment on your part to "settle" for a stable, mature relationship -- which can take a few months to build up steam instead of starting off like a bang, as occurred with your exGF. Every time I date someone new, I keep reminding myself to "give it time." It is so easy for guys like us to fall in love with a BPDer. After all, when a BPDer is good, she is very VERY good.

[wilsonx]

Downtown,

 

I really appreciate the advice you gave me about taking my time. I would have kept going and going and going into these relationships and have been going with emotionally immature women for sometime now and emotionally mature, it was moving fast enough for me.

 

You are right, I was walking on eggshells to make everything right.

 

Thanks

[Mack05]

Sbpm,

 

My ex has BPD..Here is the best article I have read on BPD and how to recover from a failed BPD relationship -> http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

 

I was only with her 6 months yet the breakup with her, was harder then a previous 7 year relationship. The article above explains why. I was going through personal problems, as well as the breakup. I thought my world was crashing down. I thought I was losing the best thing in my life. I thought she was so beautiful. I thought she was my life, my future happiness.

 

Fast forward 4 months. I looked at a picture of her a few weeks back and felt nothing. She is not even remotely beautiful to me anymore, in anyway. I have got myself in shape and I have met a girl who is better then my ex in every single way a person can be better. We are not a offically couple yet, but hopefully we are going down that path. Therefore the answer to your question is that you will be more then ok. Not only that, when you get over a relationship with someone who has BPD, you wonder what the hell you ever even saw in them..

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mack05

[antinko]

Interesting. Although I don't think my ex had BPD, she was very needy and I did feel like I was walking on eggshells a lot of the time.

 

Something resonates with me that you said Downtown about the girl 'needing' the guy, but not necessarily 'loving' them. Hm, I think that's probably what I experienced with my ex. One of the hardest things for me to face was that she said she 'loved me at the time', but now doesn't.

 

It all seemed very convincing, but I suspect I was simply used. I don't know.

[Downtown]

Although I don't think my ex had BPD, she was very needy and I did feel like I was walking on eggshells a lot of the time.

Antinko, BPD is a only a set of symptoms, not an identifiable disease. This is a very important distinction because, whereas a disease is something you "have" or "do not have," BPD symptoms are something that everyone has to some degree. That is, everyone occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits. We all do splitting, for example, numerous times every day, e.g., every time we day dream or get startled.

 

The important issue, then, is not whether your ex has the nine BPD traits. Of course, she does. We all do. Rather, the issue is whether she has them at a moderate to strong level, where they are undermining her ability to correctly perceive other peoples' intentions and her ability to sustain LTRs. I highlight this distinction to emphasize that "not having BPD at the diagnostic level" does NOT imply she is a good marriage candidate. Even when a person has BPD traits that only meet 50% or 60% of the diagnostic criteria, she can make your life miserable if you try to live with her.

 

The 1980 decision of the American Psychiatric Assoc. to treat BPD in the Diagnostic Manual as though it were a disease has been an embarassment for over thirty years. For all that while, psychologists have been declaring folks to "not have BPD" who meet 80% or 90% of the criteria -- i.e., folks who are nearly as dysfunctional, mean, and abusive as the ones who are declared to "have BPD." After all those years, the APA is finally correcting this embarrassment by replacing the binary diagnosis ("have" or "not have") with a graduated diagnosis (e.g., mild, moderate, strong, full) in the DSM5 which is to be released in 2013.

Something resonates with me that you said Downtown about the girl 'needing' the guy, but not necessarily 'loving' them. Hm, I think that's probably what I experienced with my ex. One of the hardest things for me to face was that she said she 'loved me at the time', but now doesn't. It all seemed very convincing, but I suspect I was simply used. I don't know.

Antinko, IME, the question that we ex-partners most want answered -- after leaving a BPD relationship -- is "Did the BPDer ever really love me?" The question arises because, once we realize that the mirroring she did during the honeymoon period was an illusion, we start wondering whether everything in the relationship was fake. My view is that, yes, your exGF really did love you at the time -- but that it was an immature form of love that falls far short of what is required to sustain friendships, much less what is needed in marriages. I therefore believe her expressions of affection generally were sincere.

 

Granted, BPDers usually are excellent actors. Because a BPDer's self image is fragile, she had been acting her entire life in order to fit in and be accepted. That was all she knew how to do because, whenever she walked into a new social setting, she had no strong sense of self to guide her own behavior. Hence, the acting comes so naturally to a BPDer that, unless she is convinced otherwise by a therapist, she may not have any idea that other people do not think that way. This acting ability does not imply, however, that the BPDer is devoid of genuine, intense feelings.

 

A BPDer's problem is not being fake but, rather, being unstable. She therefore could flip in ten seconds from adoring you to devaluing you. That complete adoration of you, however, was genuine and sincere. Like we all do when we are infatuated with someone, she projected qualities onto you that no human can possess. But, as I noted earlier, projection works so wonderfully because it is done at the subconscious level. She therefore really believed -- for a few months -- that she had met the perfect man. And, because a BPDer does black-white thinking, she perceived you as being all good and a savior -- far exceeding your idealization of her.

 

As to whether she actually loved you after the infatuation ended, she likely did. High functioning BPDers can be very caring and loving. Again, their problem is not being uncaring but, rather, unstable. Yet, because their emotional development was frozen at the level of a four year old (if they have very strong BPD traits), they are only able to love like a very young child does.

 

How bad can that be? Not so bad, is it? After all, you don't see parents run screaming away from their young children just because they know that "I love you" mostly means "I desperately need you to love me." No, that is not gawd awful. On the other hand, it falls far short of what is needed to sustain a marriage of two adults. For that reason, no emotionally healthy adult is willing to settle for that impaired form of love in a marriage partner.

 

Assuming your exGF really loved you in that child-like way, a related issue is whether she was loving your true features or, rather, ones she projected onto you. Because her perception of you was seriously distorted much of the time, the answer likely is that (after the infatuation ended) she loved a mixture of real and projected qualities. My exW, for example, seemed to love me only as long as I continued walking on eggshells, not being my true self.

[Mack05]

Downtown u need to do this professionally, maybe work with BPD sufferers. That is a great post right there. You just described my last ex and my relationship with/to her to a tee. I am the kind of guy who is loyal and will try making something work through the bad times, but a relationship with someone who has BDP (or exhibits many of the traits) will eventually destroy your soul. Downtown u know this more then anyone.

 

No one wants a relationship where they feel they are walking on eggshells. I felt like that for the last 3 months of my last relationship. After 3 months we had our first big fight and her behaviour was the most bizarre I have ever encountered with a woman (by a long way). I wanted out that night, because I knew I wasn't dealing with a emotionally healthy normal girl. Thankfully Downtime people like you and my therapist have explained to me what was going on, because at the time I hadn't a clue. I was the "love of her life" 5 days before the fight and then was been dumped as if I was nothing to her..Any time she told me she loved me after that night meant nothing to me, because how could it?. I was one mistake away from "no I don't love you". When u are on eggshells u will continue to not be yourself and continue to make mistakes.

 

It is nice to know what went wrong in my last relationship and know that there was nothing I could have done, to have a long term happy relationship with this woman. Still though Downtown, I ended up in a relationship with this woman and no way in hell I would have done that, if I wasn't messed up myself at the time. I think at the time, if I was an emotionally healthy person, I would have seen all the red flags (they were many) and said "Mack this aint right, get out".

 

I say its so important to take care of our own emotional, physical, mental health. Because if we don't we make the same mistakes going forward, choosing emotionally unhealthy women to be our partners and having the same toxic relationships. I have put a lot of work into myself, because I refuse to make the same mistakes in the future. Before Downtime I wanted to help my ex, she has ran from her problems/demons for so long she is utter self denial. She actually believes she is happy. But I don't want to help her anymore. It's about focusing on ourselves. Say a prayer for them and hope they beat their demons, but also be thankful our love wasn't wasted on the wrong woman. Because wasted love is the biggest waste in life..

Edited July 30, 2011 by Mack05