Some guys don't mind being treated badly

[RepairMinded]

Most of the time I swear and yell; other times I just shut him out and don't talk. The former gets him riled up, telling me to chill out; the latter makes him contrite and he's all over me trying to figure out what's wrong. He's saying he's sorry for something he doesn't have to feel sorry for at all and hugging and kissing me and giving me these wry smiles to try to make me laugh. And even though I want to laugh right then, I stifle it for a slightly more prolonged effect. That's what I did with the freeway incident, combined with tears because I had been scared to death. And then I swore at him once the immediate shock dissolved and anger set in. Shutting him out was also what I did during our first big fight (the sex tape incident). That's what I do to manipulate him, as I'm deliberately making an effort to get a particular response. And I always get the response I want.

 

I don't think of our relationship as a power game--I don't worry about who has more or less control, who cares more or less. I'm just concerned with getting my way at times. And the way I get it has been the easiest way for me. I say it's easy because it's tried and true--it works.

 

 

It's your choice how you want to expend your "relationship capital." You can be a spendthrift and fritter it away or you can conserve it, try to use it wisely, and try to make it an investment in growing your relationship.

 

Every time you have a needless immature outburst it might get you what you think you want in the short term, but it's damaging to your relationship in the long term.

 

It's no different than the person who takes their paycheck and blows all of it on frivolous purchases every time, saving nothing for a rainy day, investing nothing for the future.

 

Stop living day to day in your relationships and try to build something for the future. Once you start thinking along those lines you might start to question the wisdom of constantly impetuous behavior.

[tigressA]

It's your choice how you want to expend your "relationship capital." You can be a spendthrift and fritter it away or you can conserve it, try to use it wisely, and try to make it an investment in growing your relationship.

 

Every time you have a needless immature outburst it might get you what you think you want in the short term, but it's damaging to your relationship in the long term.

 

It's no different than the person who takes their paycheck and blows all of it on frivolous purchases every time, saving nothing for a rainy day, investing nothing for the future.

 

Stop living day to day in your relationships and try to build something for the future. Once you start thinking along those lines you might start to question the wisdom of constantly impetuous behavior.

 

I can definitely identify with this. I very much live in the present and don't think much, if at all, of the future. BF has noticed this in me, and asked me about it. I don't have much of an answer to explain why. I routinely burn bridges, thinking that because I don't want or need those people from that moment, I never will. I do what I want now, never giving a thought to what I'll have to do later, and I sometimes end up ruing past actions.

[Kamille]

The reward is, basically, getting my way. I want him to shut up, he shuts up. I want him to reassure me, he reassures me.

 

There's nothing wrong with asking for what you want. What I struggle to understand is why things escalate with you two. Why do they have to escalate. Why isn't your reflex to simply ask for it, without feeling like you have to scream or be a bitch. It takes two to communicate. What is it about the way you communicate that makes this a good strategy?

 

It bothers me. I'm troubled because I don't know where to start in order to put a stop to it.

 

Another thing that isn't clear to me is whether you're being too self-critical and confusing attempts at assertion as pure bitchiness. In the scenario you described about laying down the law, assertive behaviors were mixed in with aggressive behaviors. You told him how it made you feel, you told him what you wanted. That's assertive. Yelling and cussing, of course, is aggressive.

 

So, my other question is: what do you want to put a stop to and why do you think it's important to put a stop to it?

[tigressA]

There's nothing wrong with asking for what you want. What I struggle to understand is why things escalate with you two. Why do they have to escalate. Why isn't your reflex to simply ask for it, without feeling like you have to scream or be a bitch. It takes two to communicate. What is it about the way you communicate that makes this a good strategy?

 

 

 

Another thing that isn't clear to me is whether you're being too self-critical and confusing attempts at assertion as pure bitchiness. In the scenario you described about laying down the law, assertive behaviors were mixed in with aggressive behaviors. You told him how it made you feel, you told him what you wanted. That's assertive. Yelling and cussing, of course, is aggressive.

 

So, my other question is: what do you want to put a stop to and why do you think it's important to put a stop to it?

 

I don't really know what makes it a good strategy. And it's only really "good" in the sense that it works. It certainly doesn't help the overall relationship. I never thought about why I feel I have to yell and swear to be heard. I guess the best I can say is that it's been working for years, and I was never really given an incentive to stop.

 

I want to put a stop to being aggressive. I want to stop immediately lashing out at him when I'm angry, and communicate in an effective way that won't damage my relationship. I think it's important to put a stop to it because it's behavior that doesn't reflect well upon me. I've been told by numerous people over the years, but there was never enough of a reason for me to stop, until now. I feel like I'm not one of those people who can just be lightly warned. I have to be at serious risk of losing or damaging something beyond repair in order to reform. It's difficult to do it solely 'for my own good'. I have to have another motivation.

Edited July 23, 2011 by tigressA

[Ruby Slippers]

I was bitchy again today, with great results. My new (CUTE) neighbor who has the same landlord as me came ringing my doorbell early this morning. I was in bed, so did not answer. Then he came and knocked on my bedroom window. I am usually grumpy for a little while after I wake up, so it was not hard to greet him at the door in my robe with my bitch face.

 

I said, "What do you want?"

 

And he said, "I'm sorry for waking you up, but the phone number you gave me for the landlord isn't working. My apartment is flooded a little."

 

I looked at him with a "you're an idiot" glare. I have never seen this man before in my life and have never given him any phone numbers. With some irritation, I got my phone and showed him the two numbers I have.

 

He thanked me and apologized some more for waking me, then slinked away.

 

I bet you a million dollars he is now way more curious about me than he would have been if I'd been all sweet and agreeable.

[rafallus]

I was bitchy again today, with great results. My new (CUTE) neighbor who has the same landlord as me came ringing my doorbell early this morning. I was in bed, so did not answer. Then he came and knocked on my bedroom window. I am usually grumpy for a little while after I wake up, so it was not hard to greet him at the door in my robe with my bitch face.

 

I said, "What do you want?"

 

And he said, "I'm sorry for waking you up, but the phone number you gave me for the landlord isn't working. My apartment is flooded a little."

 

I looked at him with a "you're an idiot" glare. I have never seen this man before in my life and have never given him any phone numbers. With some irritation, I got my phone and showed him the two numbers I have.

 

He thanked me and apologized some more for waking me, then slinked away.

 

I bet you a million dollars he is now way more curious about me than he would have been if I'd been all sweet and agreeable

I think you're deluding yourself.

 

I'm always like that if someone wakes me up too early, for whatever reason, but I can't be bothered to call it attractive style. Being pissed in such situation is pretty normal thing.

[Woggle]

With all due respect Ruby he is probably afraid to knock on your door again and is saying some not great things to his friends. I know with me niceness gets good results. I had a waitress the other day that was super nice and went out of her way to make sure we had a good experience despite the fact that it was a large party. I gave her a fifty for a tip.

[Ruby Slippers]

With all due respect Ruby he is probably afraid to knock on your door again and is saying some not great things to his friends. I know with me niceness gets good results. I had a waitress the other day that was super nice and went out of her way to make sure we had a good experience despite the fact that it was a large party. I gave her a fifty for a tip.

Customer service is a totally different ballgame. But some of the bitchy techniques can work in business, too, if used in moderation. For example, if a prospect is trying to lowball me on price, I basically tell them we're worth our prices, you get what you pay for, and it won't break my heart if they go with a lower-quality company for a lower price. Nine times out of ten, they hire us.

[Woggle]

Customer service is a totally different ballgame. But some of the bitchy techniques can work in business, too, if used in moderation. For example, if a prospect is trying to lowball me on price, I basically tell them we're worth our prices, you get what you pay for, and it won't break my heart if they go with a lower-quality company for a lower price. Nine times out of ten, they hire us.

 

If somebody is trying to walk all over you then stand up for yourself but I don't agree with treating people like crap to get what you want. Why would a woman even want a man like this? I dated women that seemed to enjoy being treated like crap and it did not last very wrong.

[Ruby Slippers]

Well, like I've said before, I've always been sweet and loving with the men in my life, and it hasn't worked out for me very well. They don't appreciate it and they take it for granted.

 

The women I know who have guys falling over themselves to please them are the biggest bitches. They get everything they want. Sweet women get stream-rolled by men.

 

Like you always say, you can play them or get played yourself.

[Woggle]

Ruby I like you but don't go down this road. If I went down the same road with women I never would have met my wife who actually does appreciate me treating her well.

 

I bet these women who have men falling over themselves are still unhappy with it and unsatisfied no matter how hard the men try.

[ptp]

Well, like I've said before, I've always been sweet and loving with the men in my life, and it hasn't worked out for me very well. They don't appreciate it and they take it for granted.

 

The women I know who have guys falling over themselves to please them are the biggest bitches. They get everything they want. Sweet women get stream-rolled by men.

 

Like you always say, you can play them or get played yourself.

 

So lets say you play them. For a guy that means being an a**hole even though you like the girl and are in love with her etc... But you continue to play the game because she respects you more and you have the power in the relationship. How long does this go on? How long can you keep up the act?

 

Being an a**hole/b**ch does work to a certain extent for both guys and girls. However, if that is not in your nature, if you are well adjusted adult who is genuinely nice how long can you keep up the act? Eventually your true side will come out. Then what?

Edited July 23, 2011 by ptp

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby I like you but don't go down this road. If I went down the same road with women I never would have met my wife who actually does appreciate me treating her well.

 

I bet these women who have men falling over themselves are still unhappy with it and unsatisfied no matter how hard the men try.

You've talked many times about how you went through your *******/player stage, and how good it was for you, yes? And now you're telling me not to do something similar?

[Woggle]

You've talked many times about how you went through your *******/player stage, and how good it was for you, yes? And now you're telling me not to do something similar?

 

During my most bitter times I do boast about it but in reality all it got me was a bunch of drama and a woman I nearly had to get a restraining order against. Maybe I had to go through it to break the pattern of being a doormat but it lasted a little over a year and I can't imagine me still being happy if it continued.

[RepairMinded]

I was bitchy again today, with great results. My new (CUTE) neighbor who has the same landlord as me came ringing my doorbell early this morning. I was in bed, so did not answer. Then he came and knocked on my bedroom window. I am usually grumpy for a little while after I wake up, so it was not hard to greet him at the door in my robe with my bitch face.

 

I said, "What do you want?"

 

And he said, "I'm sorry for waking you up, but the phone number you gave me for the landlord isn't working. My apartment is flooded a little."

 

I looked at him with a "you're an idiot" glare. I have never seen this man before in my life and have never given him any phone numbers. With some irritation, I got my phone and showed him the two numbers I have.

 

He thanked me and apologized some more for waking me, then slinked away.

 

I bet you a million dollars he is now way more curious about me than he would have been if I'd been all sweet and agreeable.

 

 

That sounds like a meet-cute introduction to your brand new stalker.

 

Enjoy.

[zengirl]

I was bitchy again today, with great results. My new (CUTE) neighbor who has the same landlord as me came ringing my doorbell early this morning. I was in bed, so did not answer. Then he came and knocked on my bedroom window. I am usually grumpy for a little while after I wake up, so it was not hard to greet him at the door in my robe with my bitch face.

 

I said, "What do you want?"

 

And he said, "I'm sorry for waking you up, but the phone number you gave me for the landlord isn't working. My apartment is flooded a little."

 

I looked at him with a "you're an idiot" glare. I have never seen this man before in my life and have never given him any phone numbers. With some irritation, I got my phone and showed him the two numbers I have.

 

He thanked me and apologized some more for waking me, then slinked away.

 

I bet you a million dollars he is now way more curious about me than he would have been if I'd been all sweet and agreeable.

 

Okay, first of all: it's kind of weird to knock on someone's bedroom window. So I'm not sure how "bitchy" your reaction really was (saying he's an idiot maybe would've been bitchy, but I seriously doubt the guy is interpreting your glare). And you kind of were NICE -- you showed him the numbers in your phone -- especially considering he did something so odd (knocking on a stranger's window; the door is one thing, the window another).

 

And I don't see any "results" at all (negative or positive) from this interaction. Are you counting his apology? I imagine he would've apologized whether you were kind or grumpy or whatever because he's doing something (disturbing you) that any polite person would apologize for, and if he's not a polite person, your being bitchy wouldn't make him more prone to apologizing IME since you're a stranger. Being aloof and disinterested in a stranger's problems also isn't anything similar to treating a BF badly. If said neighbor had been your BF, the read on this situation would be totally different.

 

Like others, I'm curious now of your definition of a "bitch." Being a kind person doesn't mean constantly falling all over yourself to accommodate everyone.

 

Customer service is a totally different ballgame. But some of the bitchy techniques can work in business, too, if used in moderation. For example, if a prospect is trying to lowball me on price, I basically tell them we're worth our prices, you get what you pay for, and it won't break my heart if they go with a lower-quality company for a lower price. Nine times out of ten, they hire us.

 

That's not at all bitchy. That's just good business. And in that way, being assertive is very similar: it's saying, "I value myself" (just as your business values itself too much to lower its rates) and "this is what I'm worth." That's not bitchy inherently; it can be bitchy if what you're worth is a man who's afraid to bring you the wrong chocolate bar as a "thinking of you" gift.

[Ross MwcFan]

Earlier when I gave it to my BF straight about the driving instruction like a cold hard b*tch ("Am I clear?"), he immediately got defensive and said I could hire a professional if I really wanted. In the end though, he agreed to my guidelines. I didn't even apologize for my attitude. I didn't have to. When saying our goodbyes he was a sweetheart, as usual. When we bicker/argue, which isn't that often, I raise my voice and start swearing a lot, and he's usually the one to apologize first.

 

I remember posting a thread about the end of my last relationship that was hundreds of posts long. In it, I was remonstrated with for seeming very cold and calculating. One particular guy I dated on and off said sometimes he could see the wheels turning in my head, but never said anything because he was in his doormat phase and had really liked me. He said extreme manipulation seemed to be a natural part of my MO. But that didn't prevent him from wanting to rekindle our relationship when we briefly reconnected at the start of this year. This was after he had confronted me for having blatantly lied to him.

 

I'm consistently rewarded for being b*tchy and manipulative. When I first started dating and I was transparently honest and sweet and giving, it turned guys off. I had to pre-emptively end relationships that were going nowhere because the guy just didn't feel the same way I did. But once I started becoming manipulative, more selfish, and abrasive ("F*ck off!") the guys I was with were at my feet. Even if they at first acted like they wouldn't put up with it, they would inevitably come back around.

 

It can't be just me who's experienced this. I honestly think guys are just as susceptible to less-than-ideal treatment at the hands of a significant other as it's constantly said women are.

 

I'm one guy who would mind, and would give it back too.

[LexiB]

This one is kind of subtle, but SUPER effective: when he brags to you about something he did well, be lukewarm in your acknowledgement, e.g., "That's cool", as opposed to, "Woah, that's awesome, honey!"

 

What does he do next? Trips over himself trying to do something even better, something that IS worthy of you deeming awesome.

 

This is one that I see a friend of mine do all the time, and it works like magic: Her guy will pick out some perfect thing for her, like caramel sea salt 70% dark organic chocolate. Then he brings it home to her, and instead of expressing appreciation, she'll be unimpressed and say something like, "Oh, I wanted to try the 75% one." I used to think she was SUCH a major bitch for this. But now I get it.

 

Next time, he'll one-up himself by bringing her home 3 different, better, more expensive options.

 

The woman gets what she wants every damn time. And the man -- who is a TOTAL catch, cute as hell, making great money, alpha guy, the life of the party -- seems thrilled to be her bitch.

 

That seems much more like just having high standards and not being easily impressed than being a bitch. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. I, on the other hand, am just a bitch. I'm working on it though, as it is wrong, and it won't fly for too much longer.

 

Her SO goes out of his way to buy a gift - unsolicited - and she throws it in his face and tells him it's not good enough? That behavior is not "just having high standards", it's called being a c*nt, and that's not a word I throw around casually. If you're classifying your particular level of bitchiness as worse than that, I truly hope you do manage to grow out of it soon.

[HeavenOrHell]

I've never got steam rolled by a man.

R/ships aren't games to be played, what a load of false BS! I'm so not into game playing, I'd rather be myself and for him to be himself and cut the crap. Maybe some women attract the type of men they feel they have to manipulate to get what they want.

 

 

Well, like I've said before, I've always been sweet and loving with the men in my life, and it hasn't worked out for me very well. They don't appreciate it and they take it for granted.

 

The women I know who have guys falling over themselves to please them are the biggest bitches. They get everything they want. Sweet women get stream-rolled by men.

 

Like you always say, you can play them or get played yourself.

[cerridwen]

I'm one guy who would mind, and would give it back too.

 

THANK. GOD!

 

I don't know a single healthy guy who would put up with this OR that chocolate bullsh*t.