Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Your 'old-fashioned gentleman' is an 'old-fashioned wife beater'. If I were with one of those there would eventually be one less of them in the world. That's what you say now. In reality, snotty b*tch types pretty much all have major daddy issues and thus respond positively to strong male authority. You'd worship the ground he walked on if he demonstrated the rule of thumb to you once or twice, I can promise you that.
SmileFace Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 If I have to lower myself to cussing and acting like a first class bitch for a guy to like the fire in me; I rather stay single. There are many better ways to get one's point across. Anyway if discussions come to this point I wouldn't want someone who wouldn't give me back the same "fire".
Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Even the most macho, alpha guys I've been with LOVED IT when I brought a little verbal smackdown and pushed back against their BS. I was out tonight, and I experimented more with being a little bitchy. It works like a ****ing charm. This is more proof that our society is fundamentally anti-male. She can go around experimenting with being a b*tch (and having a jolly good time at it) all she wants. But if I decided to experiment with being an old-fashioned gentleman, I'd end up in jail. This is f*cked up.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 This is more proof that our society is fundamentally anti-male. She can go around experimenting with being a b*tch (and having a jolly good time at it) all she wants. But if I decided to experiment with being an old-fashioned gentleman, I'd end up in jail. This is f*cked up. Physical violence does not equal attitudinal bitchiness. The equivalent of being a bitch is being an ******* -- and believe me, plenty of men have mastered that art.
Nexus One Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 The thing about being a b*tch is that some guys will put up with it while they're crushing intensely, but once the love chemicals start to wear off, then what will probably be left is that they can't stand being around you anymore. The negativity, the nagging, the volume. If it comes to a point where a guy really wants you to shut the f*ck up, but you don't and he has options for an exit strategy, i.e. he could leave whenever he wants, then he will quite probably do so unless he's just staying with you for the sex. I know guys that stay "in a relationship" with b*tches, but from what I know they're only with those girls/women for the sex, but those women don't know that. Not sure what else to say about b*tches other than I really dislike them and that negativity is a huuuuge turn-off for me. Even if a girl is physically very attractive, and physical attraction is the nr1 turn-on for men, then her being negative too much can completely kill that, at least for me. I guess there's probably some irony in saying this though, i.e. being negative about being negative (too much).
Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Physical violence does not equal attitudinal bitchiness. The equivalent of being a bitch is being an ******* -- and believe me, plenty of men have mastered that art. Fair and measured physical discipline is much less offensive than obnoxious, immoral, bitchy behavior, in my opinion.
Author tigressA Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 Physical violence does not equal attitudinal bitchiness. The equivalent of being a bitch is being an ******* -- and believe me, plenty of men have mastered that art. Agreed. ---
ptp Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 I have had enough of this insinuation of physical violence against women. You want to feel like a real man? Step into a ring against a guy bigger/stronger than you. Step on a football field and take a few hits. Then see how much of man you really are.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 The negativity, the nagging, the volume. If it comes to a point where a guy really wants you to shut the f*ck up, but you don't and he has options for an exit strategy, i.e. he could leave whenever he wants, then he will quite probably do so unless he's just staying with you for the sex. I know guys that stay "in a relationship" with b*tches, but from what I know they're only with those girls/women for the sex, but those women don't know that. In the good old days, there was another highly effective option, but of course we are far too "civilized" to allow such a "barbaric" practice today.
MrNate Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 I'm going to have to agree. I'll be straight up. I HIGHLY respect a woman with a spine, who does not bend easily, and demands a certain level of respect. It's assuring, sexy, healthy, and gets me hella attracted. They say women like men who treat them badly. I beg to differ. Women, like men who are assertive and stand up for themselves, and vice versa. I wouldn't equate this with treating someone badly though. Another personal confession: Women who are too much of sweethearts will probably turn me, (including most men) a bit off. Show me that bold side!
Author tigressA Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 The thing about being a b*tch is that some guys will put up with it while they're crushing intensely, but once the love chemicals start to wear off, then what will probably be left is that they can't stand being around you anymore. Yeah, it hasn't gotten even close to that point, which is good because I am improving. He went on a last-minute trip for the weekend for some important business and the last time that happened, I hardcore guilt-tripped him into staying with me for that night and not leaving until the next morning. When it happened today, I was just like, "Okay, see you Sunday."
Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Women, like men who are assertive and stand up for themselves I agree 100%. Women respect men who are assertive and have old-fashioned values.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 I'm going to have to agree. I'll be straight up. I HIGHLY respect a woman with a spine, who does not bend easily, and demands a certain level of respect. It's assuring, sexy, healthy, and gets me hella attracted. They say women like men who treat them badly. I beg to differ. Women, like men who are assertive and stand up for themselves, and vice versa. I wouldn't equate this with treating someone badly though. Another personal confession: Women who are too much of sweethearts will probably turn me, (including most men) a bit off. Show me that bold side! Oh, MrNate. I will SO be a bitch to you.
Dust Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 If the choice was a kind person who was a doormat or an abrasive swearing loud person who was clear about the things they wanted, the person who was willing to ask for things would be the one who was better liked and better respected. Now if the choice is between a respectful person who doesn’t put up with sht but doesn’t give people sht and a person who creates drama by yelling etc. then the first more respectful person will have it better because they gain all the advantage of being demanding by having certain ideals they don’t bend on yet they also give more by not upsetting people purposely. I would recommend you look for a way to be yourself and not be some fake “nice” girl yet still be assertive and ask for the things you need with out yelling and swearing and being nasty. Live by the sword die by the sword. It all comes back to you. Treat other people the way you want to be treated if you were in their shoes and you can’t go wrong.
Nexus One Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) I'm going to have to agree. I'll be straight up. I HIGHLY respect a woman with a spine, who does not bend easily, and demands a certain level of respect. It's assuring, sexy, healthy, and gets me hella attracted. They say women like men who treat them badly. I beg to differ. Women, like men who are assertive and stand up for themselves, and vice versa. I wouldn't equate this with treating someone badly though. Another personal confession: Women who are too much of sweethearts will probably turn me, (including most men) a bit off. Show me that bold side! There's a difference between having a spine and being a b*tch or @sshole. The first one is being assertive without becoming "aggressive" and the second one is becoming (verbally) aggressive with the goal of trying to emotionally hurt someone. Some b*tches and @ssholes also add a sadistic element to it where they enjoy the result of their behavior. Edited July 23, 2011 by Nexus One
MrNate Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Oh, MrNate. I will SO be a bitch to you. I'm already sold on you, Ruby. And you better..or I'll force it out.
Author tigressA Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 Even the most macho, alpha guys I've been with LOVED IT when I brought a little verbal smackdown and pushed back against their BS. I was out tonight, and I experimented more with being a little bitchy. It works like a ****ing charm. Ruby, I'd love an example of what you do to be b*tchy.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Ruby, I'd love an example of what you do to be b*tchy. This one is kind of subtle, but SUPER effective: when he brags to you about something he did well, be lukewarm in your acknowledgement, e.g., "That's cool", as opposed to, "Woah, that's awesome, honey!" What does he do next? Trips over himself trying to do something even better, something that IS worthy of you deeming awesome. This is one that I see a friend of mine do all the time, and it works like magic: Her guy will pick out some perfect thing for her, like caramel sea salt 70% dark organic chocolate. Then he brings it home to her, and instead of expressing appreciation, she'll be unimpressed and say something like, "Oh, I wanted to try the 75% one." I used to think she was SUCH a major bitch for this. But now I get it. Next time, he'll one-up himself by bringing her home 3 different, better, more expensive options. The woman gets what she wants every damn time. And the man -- who is a TOTAL catch, cute as hell, making great money, alpha guy, the life of the party -- seems thrilled to be her bitch.
dispatch3d Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 See, that's sort of how it is with us. I say these things when I'm legit pissed off, though, and I want him to know it. Invariably he ends up de-escalating it. Every so often I'll just stop talking so I don't go further. And yes, I am trying to work on it. I did apologize to him, and like I said, at first he thought I was being too serious. He didn't really see it as an issue until I pointed it out to him, particularly because he would do the same thing back, and more in a joking way, and the tension would just dissolve. Oh **** come on with the apologizing. Don't do **** you need to apologize for, that's been my MO for a while (unreachable, but I don't give a ****. Fact is, you're going to mess up. Get over it).
2sunny Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 i'm sickened at the thought that you two are throwing out ideas about how to be bitchy to men. seems like no conscience.
Author tigressA Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 This one is kind of subtle, but SUPER effective: when he brags to you about something he did well, be lukewarm in your acknowledgement, e.g., "That's cool", as opposed to, "Woah, that's awesome, honey!" What does he do next? Trips over himself trying to do something even better, something that IS worthy of you deeming awesome. This is one that I see a friend of mine do all the time, and it works like magic: Her guy will pick out some perfect thing for her, like caramel sea salt 70% dark organic chocolate. Then he brings it home to her, and instead of expressing appreciation, she'll be unimpressed and say something like, "Oh, I wanted to try the 75% one." I used to think she was SUCH a major bitch for this. But now I get it. Next time, he'll one-up himself by bringing her home 3 different, better, more expensive options. The woman gets what she wants every damn time. And the man -- who is a TOTAL catch, cute as hell, making great money, alpha guy, the life of the party -- seems thrilled to be her bitch. That seems much more like just having high standards and not being easily impressed than being a bitch. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. I, on the other hand, am just a bitch. I'm working on it though, as it is wrong, and it won't fly for too much longer.
zengirl Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Earlier when I gave it to my BF straight about the driving instruction like a cold hard b*tch ("Am I clear?"), he immediately got defensive and said I could hire a professional if I really wanted. In the end though, he agreed to my guidelines. I didn't even apologize for my attitude. I didn't have to. When saying our goodbyes he was a sweetheart, as usual. When we bicker/argue, which isn't that often, I raise my voice and start swearing a lot, and he's usually the one to apologize first. I remember posting a thread about the end of my last relationship that was hundreds of posts long. In it, I was remonstrated with for seeming very cold and calculating. One particular guy I dated on and off said sometimes he could see the wheels turning in my head, but never said anything because he was in his doormat phase and had really liked me. He said extreme manipulation seemed to be a natural part of my MO. But that didn't prevent him from wanting to rekindle our relationship when we briefly reconnected at the start of this year. This was after he had confronted me for having blatantly lied to him. I'm consistently rewarded for being b*tchy and manipulative. When I first started dating and I was transparently honest and sweet and giving, it turned guys off. I had to pre-emptively end relationships that were going nowhere because the guy just didn't feel the same way I did. But once I started becoming manipulative, more selfish, and abrasive ("F*ck off!") the guys I was with were at my feet. Even if they at first acted like they wouldn't put up with it, they would inevitably come back around. It can't be just me who's experienced this. I honestly think guys are just as susceptible to less-than-ideal treatment at the hands of a significant other as it's constantly said women are. I was never rewarded for being manipulative, but maybe that's because my heart was never in it. I was only rewarded once I chose to live my life for me. And living my life for me = being nice to people whenever possible, regardless of how it makes them feel about me. I wouldn't want a guy who let me treat him like crap, and my parents certainly don't treat each other like crap. They take care of each other. I'm sure there are a myriad of relationships out there where people treat each other like crap, that stay together, but that sounds sad to me. That said, I think all good relationships have two partners who assert themselves. I don't know what it is you do that's so manipulative, tigressA, so it's hard to comment here. Cussing and yelling when you fight is such a broad spectrum---there is emotionally abusive and there is just, "****, I'm angry" especially if your BF thinks you're joking. I don't think all dudes like drama (some do, some don't), though I've been with BFs who liked my drama and were amused when I yelled and such at others. Which even as a nice person I sometimes do (I yelled at a Barnes and Noble the other day, but apologized to the actual clerk, as it wasn't her fault. I literally yelled at the store and then apologized to the clerk who thought I was yelling at her and bought her a latte. My BF was endlessly amused by all of this apparently, even though I also got briefly frustrated with him, but he understands I'm a hot-tempered person and I do take care never to let him think I'm attacking HIM when I'm frustrated). I do think that obsessing about who has the "power" in the relationship often leads to bad things, but that's just my experience. At any rate, I think men like sass, but they don't like bitches. They like women who are real, who have emotions (even bad tempers!), who express and assert themselves, and who can stand toe-to-toe. That doesn't mean they like to be mistreated. There is a line there, and crossing it does degrade the relationship----not always immediately but over time, as Nexus says. I don't think you turned guys off because you were sweet and giving. I think they could tell you were basically putting on an act. As the one guy told you, your natural MO is something quite different than the act you were putting on. I think this is likely true. I think you have to commit to being the person you are in order to assert yourself so if you were wishy washy nice and it wasn't you, of course that won't work. I'm nice to men (and everyone) and it works for me, because I don't confuse being "nice" with failing to assert myself. I know and assert who I am constantly, but honestly and kindly whenever possible. This does not mean I never express anger --- that's a crazy way to live --- but I actively try to express it in healthy ways (sometimes I fail and yell at book stores; eh, it happens), rather than break other people down or "manipulate" them. At the same time, part of being assertive is loving yourself and believing someone can either choose to take it or leave it, at times. I just don't think that's "bitchy" so long as you're honest about who you are and interested in being the most positive force you can be. . . I agree with Nate that men like women who are not all twisty and bendy to everyone's whims. However, I don't think that means men like women who treat them like **** somehow. It's a pretty big spectrum.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) This one is kind of subtle, but SUPER effective: when he brags to you about something he did well, be lukewarm in your acknowledgement, e.g., "That's cool", as opposed to, "Woah, that's awesome, honey!" What does he do next? Trips over himself trying to do something even better, something that IS worthy of you deeming awesome. This ploy might work on a momma's boy. A real man, on the other hand, would not bother to brag to his GF. "Honey, I discovered an awesome new antique shop today and bought his fabulous 1927 vintage lamp shade" = momma's boy talk. "Where the hell is my dinner???" = real man talk. Good luck trying your cute little subtleties with that one. This is one that I see a friend of mine do all the time, and it works like magic: Her guy will pick out some perfect thing for her, like caramel sea salt 70% dark organic chocolate. Then he brings it home to her, and instead of expressing appreciation, she'll be unimpressed and say something like, "Oh, I wanted to try the 75% one." I used to think she was SUCH a major bitch for this. But now I get it. Next time, he'll one-up himself by bringing her home 3 different, better, more expensive options. Again, this might work if you're dating a bisexual, metrosexual, emo, etc. A real man would never encounter this problem, as he'd be putting something other than "caramel sea salt 70% dark organic chocolate" in your mouth, if you know what I mean. The woman gets what she wants every damn time. And the man -- who is a TOTAL catch, cute as hell, making great money, alpha guy, the life of the party -- seems thrilled to be her bitch. Right. An "alpha guy" who is "thrilled" to be some chick's bitch. That's about as likely as a gay dude driving a Z28 Camaro. Edited July 23, 2011 by Feelsgoodman
Author tigressA Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 I don't know what it is you do that's so manipulative, tigressA, so it's hard to comment here. Cussing and yelling when you fight is such a broad spectrum---there is emotionally abusive and there is just, "****, I'm angry" especially if your BF thinks you're joking. I don't think all dudes like drama (some do, some don't), though I've been with BFs who liked my drama and were amused when I yelled and such at others. Which even as a nice person I sometimes do (I yelled at a Barnes and Noble the other day, but apologized to the actual clerk, as it wasn't her fault. I literally yelled at the store and then apologized to the clerk who thought I was yelling at her and bought her a latte. My BF was endlessly amused by all of this apparently, even though I also got briefly frustrated with him, but he understands I'm a hot-tempered person and I do take care never to let him think I'm attacking HIM when I'm frustrated). At the same time, part of being assertive is loving yourself and believing someone can either choose to take it or leave it, at times. I just don't think that's "bitchy" so long as you're honest about who you are and interested in being the most positive force you can be. . . I agree with Nate that men like women who are not all twisty and bendy to everyone's whims. However, I don't think that means men like women who treat them like **** somehow. It's a pretty big spectrum. It is really just like "F*ck, I'm angry!" I don't go into it with an intent to hurt him, and I don't feel good if or when I hurt him--and apparently I don't as he doesn't tell me that, and he would not hesitate to say so if I did hurt him. He always just says I need to calm down and take a chill pill, and that he doesn't really appreciate me expressing my anger and frustration in the way that I do. Expressing it in that way gets me what I want, though--him to shut up so I can focus on my driving. I don't like him criticizing me in the way that he does when I'm actually behind the wheel. When we're out driving and I do something 'wrong' he gets easily frustrated by me, which in turn frustrates me, and I lash out because I'm pissed about it. I don't do it to cut him down--I do it to shut him up, in the moment. I know it's having a negative effect on our relationship though, which is why I'm working on it.
threebyfate Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 I didn't read the thread but did you know that couples teaching each other how to drive can even tear apart marriages? Hope you're considering a professional teaching you with their own car, instead of your b/fs corvette! As far as men liking bitches, people confuse assertiveness for bitchiness, although some consider assertiveness bitchiness.
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