JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I was just curious. For those of you who have been either the WS or the BS or even the OW/MM. Do you view affairs/cheaters differently now than before you had the experience of being part of one (involuntarily for the BS of course)? I'll explain a little better. Before my dad's affair, I judged cheaters. I believed once a cheater, always a cheater. I believed cheaters were a differenct species almost! When I found out about my dad, it destroyed my theory. Now that I am in the reconciliation stage of my marriage post-affair and have heard so many stories here on LS of all different types of cheaters, some with remorse, some without, I have a better understanding. Also, I think about how my husband always said he'd divorce me if I cheated on him. As soon as he was faced with the decision, he decided to give me another chance. He still tells me he never thought he would ever be able to forgive someone who cheated on him. What are your thoughts? Did you or your BS or WS react the way you thought you would? Did things turn out exactly as you always believed?
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 My view of the act of cheating will never change, in my eyes it will always be wrong. I don't think my view of the people involved matters much one way or the other.
Will_miss_rk Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I was just curious. For those of you who have been either the WS or the BS or even the OW/MM. Do you view affairs/cheaters differently now than before you had the experience of being part of one (involuntarily for the BS of course)? I'll explain a little better. Before my dad's affair, I judged cheaters. I believed once a cheater, always a cheater. I believed cheaters were a differenct species almost! When I found out about my dad, it destroyed my theory. Now that I am in the reconciliation stage of my marriage post-affair and have heard so many stories here on LS of all different types of cheaters, some with remorse, some without, I have a better understanding. Also, I think about how my husband always said he'd divorce me if I cheated on him. As soon as he was faced with the decision, he decided to give me another chance. He still tells me he never thought he would ever be able to forgive someone who cheated on him. What are your thoughts? Did you or your BS or WS react the way you thought you would? Did things turn out exactly as you always believed? There are different categories of cheaters, IMO. To lump everyone into one group and label them all the scum of the earth is wrong. Society tends to do this which creates the notion that all cheating is unforgivable. Cheating needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis and not generalized so much. I think someone should start a rating system and we can refer to cheaters as a level 1 or level 10 cheater so we can get a quick idea how bad the person is. LOL.
ComputerJock Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 How can you not look at your cheating spouse different? The one you loved slept with another person, gave that person what should have been for your wife or husband only but now has been shared. The image of your spouse before the affair is dead and buried. Now, everytime you are looked at it will be as someone soiled, someone unclean, someone who has lied and cheated. I'm surprised you would even ask the question, something only a WS would ask, a BS would know their love is tarnished and will look at WS with eyes filled with pain and sorrow.
Tayla Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Once a person is able to separate the "action" and "reprecussions" of what cheating does to a relations, then and only then can they evaluate the morals of the offender. I personally distain the "act of cheating", yet have as the years gone by come to understand some incidences where it did happen to the relations and they were able to "heal" the wounds or make clean of the matter. Personally there is only one "rating" system to the "ACT" , it ranks 10 for being heartless and self serving. Now if you ask do I think that way of the person (offender), then its on a broader perspective. My female co worker recently was divorced and its then and only then that the "Truths" come out. Her husband had a mistress for ten years of their marriage.THey were married for 25 years.... Now to most it seems heartless and self serving, and you would be right. His spouse was heartless and he had to start taking care of himself. I actually smiled when she said he remarried within weeks of the final decree. He soo deserved better then the co worker. They lived the false life for far too long, and she was well aware that the marriage was over 8 years after being married , so it was in part her own selfishness that created the wedge and forced him to compensate. Not saying that the "ACT" was right , yet he let her know that they lived separate lives and the title of marriage was for the "sake" of the children. Suffice it to say their son sided with "Dad" after the decree and the Daughter is siding with MOM because she wants Momma's money when the day comes. SO yeah, the act might have been wrong , yet the end result was, he got to marry his true love and not deal with a FALSE life. I respect him for finding a genuine caring person.
Kidd Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I never envisioned that I would ever tolerate cheating. It turns out that I didn't flip the love/hate switch so quickly. I also don't believe that all cheaters are evil. The act is selfish and while ultimately disrespectful, it's rarely about the BS. Some people make tragic mistakes and see no path but to hide it. And then there are the evil serial cheaters. To answer your question, my views definitely changed. Welcome to being a grown-up. I feel so much for the rest of the people that don't see it coming.
Author JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 My view of the act of cheating will never change, in my eyes it will always be wrong. I don't think my view of the people involved matters much one way or the other. I didn't mean to imply I didn't think cheating was wrong. I was saying before I thought a certain type of person cheats and realized there is no "type" of person. I didn't mention this but after going through what I have, I look at infedelity/affairs as more destructive to everyone involved than I ever believed possible.
Author JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 How can you not look at your cheating spouse different? The one you loved slept with another person, gave that person what should have been for your wife or husband only but now has been shared. The image of your spouse before the affair is dead and buried. Now, everytime you are looked at it will be as someone soiled, someone unclean, someone who has lied and cheated. I'm surprised you would even ask the question, something only a WS would ask, a BS would know their love is tarnished and will look at WS with eyes filled with pain and sorrow. I didn't explain myself well. It's not about how I am viewed now by anyone else. It's about how I view others. I was a very judgemental person before, even to those who had cheated but had reconciled. I'm just saying my view has changed. I believe people who have cheated can change. Before I couldn't. I have no control on how other people view me and I don't expect to. If I am tarnished in the eyes of another, it's the consequence of my action.
Author JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 I never envisioned that I would ever tolerate cheating. It turns out that I didn't flip the love/hate switch so quickly. I also don't believe that all cheaters are evil. The act is selfish and while ultimately disrespectful, it's rarely about the BS. Some people make tragic mistakes and see no path but to hide it. And then there are the evil serial cheaters. To answer your question, my views definitely changed. Welcome to being a grown-up. I feel so much for the rest of the people that don't see it coming. Awesome! This is what I was trying to say. :DI was very tired last night when I started this thread. I just reread and it and wished I worded it differently.
silktricks Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I never did think "once a cheater always a cheater". If someone cannot change, then what good is faith or charity or even love? I didn't expect to have to deal with cheating in this marriage more because of my husband's attitude towards cheating than anything. I've known for a long time, though, that people can do things that are completely unexpected and far outside of their "norm". I don't think living through cheating has changed my opinion much of cheaters or anyone else. I believe people exist on a sliding scale. No one is all good or all bad, there are many gradations of gray. I also don't believe that because a person is "good" in one area of their life that means they are equally "good" in others. And of course the obverse is true as well. I find equally sad the haters as the cheaters.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I was just curious. For those of you who have been either the WS or the BS or even the OW/MM. Do you view affairs/cheaters differently now than before you had the experience of being part of one (involuntarily for the BS of course)? No. The type of person who easily changes opinions simply based on actually being involved in the situation probably didn't have very sound basis for having formed the original opinion in the first place. I'll explain a little better. Before my dad's affair, I judged cheaters. I believed once a cheater, always a cheater. A lot of people feel this way based on experience. However whether it's right or wrong doesn't depend on what happened to you. I believed cheaters were a differenct species almost! When I found out about my dad, it destroyed my theory. How so? You really don't know the facts and details of your dad's history of cheating. You know what you know but that might be only a small part of the total story. Just because your dad was the cheater doesn't refute "once a cheater always a cheater." Now that I am in the reconciliation stage of my marriage post-affair and have heard so many stories here on LS of all different types of cheaters, some with remorse, some without, I have a better understanding. The truth is that in your own marriage YOU are the cheater and therefore it's important for you not to be perceived as a potential serial cheater. Does that mean you won't be? No. Also, I think about how my husband always said he'd divorce me if I cheated on him. Lots of people feel this way too but when push comes to shove don't always divorce. That doesn't mean your husband would be "wrong" if he chose to divorce you, and it also doesn't mean he won't divorce you at some point in the future. As soon as he was faced with the decision, he decided to give me another chance. He still tells me he never thought he would ever be able to forgive someone who cheated on him. You don't know whether or not deep down he has actually, completely "forgiven" you although again it's obviously something that you want to believe. For obvious reasons. What are your thoughts? Did you or your BS or WS react the way you thought you would? Did things turn out exactly as you always believed? My thoughts are that anyone who has harsh beliefs about cheaters but then goes ahead and cheats anyway is something of a hypocrite.
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I didn't mean to imply I didn't think cheating was wrong. I was saying before I thought a certain type of person cheats and realized there is no "type" of person. I didn't mention this but after going through what I have, I look at infedelity/affairs as more destructive to everyone involved than I ever believed possible. JA, I understood what you meant. I know you believe cheating is wrong. I was be PC, the naughty step gets old after awhile. I actually never thought there was a certain type, but I do believe those who continue for years on end have commonalities.
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 As usual, the usual people will attempt to turn this thread into something the OP never intended. I'll try to answer the questions asked. My opinions on cheating were formed early in my life. My father cheated incessantly on my mother (whom I adored). That was personal. In the past I've known people that cheated, men I worked with that cheated on their wives, women I worked with that cheated on the husbands. Friends that cheated. I never looked down on or judged these people. It wasn't personal. When I found out my wife had cheated on me, yes it made me view affairs/cheaters differently. Of course it did. It was personal. When you learn the person you most trust in this world can't be trusted, when that person sticks a knife in your back and then sweetly lies about doing so, how could it not change your views? How could it not change you? I'd go so far as to say it didn't just make me view affairs/cheaters differently, it made me view life differently. I agree you can't form opinions about someone based on the fact that they cheat/have cheated. Bad people cheat, sure they do. Guess what, so do some good people. And there are plenty of "bad" people that are faithful. I was also one of those who would have said that I wouldn't stay with a cheater. Imagine my surprise when I realized that was exactly what I intended to do. And to those who go around telling the WS here that their spouse never really forgave them, you don't know that. You can't know that. I forgave my WS completely. We're not together anymore, but it isn't because of her A.
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 As usual, the usual people will attempt to turn this thread into something the OP never intended. I'll try to answer the questions asked. My opinions on cheating were formed early in my life. My father cheated incessantly on my mother (whom I adored). That was personal. In the past I've known people that cheated, men I worked with that cheated on their wives, women I worked with that cheated on the husbands. Friends that cheated. I never looked down on or judged these people. It wasn't personal. When I found out my wife had cheated on me, yes it made me view affairs/cheaters differently. Of course it did. It was personal. When you learn the person you most trust in this world can't be trusted, when that person sticks a knife in your back and then sweetly lies about doing so, how could it not change your views? How could it not change you? I'd go so far as to say it didn't just make me view affairs/cheaters differently, it made me view life differently. I agree you can't form opinions about someone based on the fact that they cheat/have cheated. Bad people cheat, sure they do. Guess what, so do some good people. And there are plenty of "bad" people that are faithful. I was also one of those who would have said that I wouldn't stay with a cheater. Imagine my surprise when I realized that was exactly what I intended to do. And to those who go around telling the WS here that their spouse never really forgave them, you don't know that. You can't know that. I forgave my WS completely. We're not together anymore, but it isn't because of her A. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I do believe that BS can forgive completely...whether they remain with their WS or not. Forgiveness is for the benefit of the one doing the forgiveness, not the other way around. Sorry for the t/j.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Forgiveness is for the benefit of the one doing the forgiveness, not the other way around. Precisely, which is why being forgiven by the BS should be completely irrelevant to the WS and certainly not imposed by the WS as a "condition" for reconciliation to occur.
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 If one can't forgive, there can be no reconciliation.
silktricks Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Precisely, which is why being forgiven by the BS should be completely irrelevant to the WS and certainly not imposed by the WS as a "condition" for reconciliation to occur. I find this odd. Could you please explain? In my experience it was the BS (that would be me ) who set the conditions. One of those conditions - for myself - was that I had to get to the point where I completely forgave him. If I couldn't, then I couldn't remain in the marriage.
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I find this odd. Could you please explain? In my experience it was the BS (that would be me ) who set the conditions. One of those conditions - for myself - was that I had to get to the point where I completely forgave him. If I couldn't, then I couldn't remain in the marriage. There are a number of WS who "demand" forgiveness. I.E. a) don't bring it up, it's in the past. b)I don't want to see you hurting from what I did, because it means you didn't forgive me really. c) you can't trigger because if you do, you didn't really forgive. I like to call it conditional forgiveness. It can go both ways of course. BS can say I forgive you but..... a) when I want to hurt you I will bring it up and slap you in the face with it. b)you will be humiliated at my will and convenience because you cheated on me
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 There are a number of WS who "demand" forgiveness. I.E. a) don't bring it up, it's in the past. b)I don't want to see you hurting from what I did, because it means you didn't forgive me really. c) you can't trigger because if you do, you didn't really forgive. I like to call it conditional forgiveness. It can go both ways of course. BS can say I forgive you but..... a) when I want to hurt you I will bring it up and slap you in the face with it. b)you will be humiliated at my will and convenience because you cheated on me That's not demanding forgiveness, that's demanding "you just get over it because it's inconvenient for me and I don't want to have to deal with it". Yes, that absolutely happens a lot, but it's not the same as really wanting forgiveness.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 If one can't forgive, there can be no reconciliation. Reconciliation has to successfully occur before true forgiveness is even possible.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 That's not demanding forgiveness, that's demanding "you just get over it because it's inconvenient for me and I don't want to have to deal with it". Yes, that absolutely happens a lot, but it's not the same as really wanting forgiveness. You will have to explain then how it is possible to truly forgive someone before reconciliation has occurred.
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 That's not demanding forgiveness, that's demanding "you just get over it because it's inconvenient for me and I don't want to have to deal with it". Yes, that absolutely happens a lot, but it's not the same as really wanting forgiveness. I think we are saying the same thing, just stating it differently.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I find this odd. Could you please explain? In my experience it was the BS (that would be me ) who set the conditions. One of those conditions - for myself - was that I had to get to the point where I completely forgave him. If I couldn't, then I couldn't remain in the marriage. Just because a person might not be able to forgive someone for a bad action in the past doesn't render reconciliation impossible. I don't think forgiveness has anything much to do with reconciliation. Reconciliation is about rebuilding the relationship based on positive actions in the present and the future. Forgiveness is about how one chooses to think about the past.
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 You will have to explain then how it is possible to truly forgive someone before reconciliation has occurred. As usual you're misconstruing what I said, but be that as it may, forgiveness can occur at any point. You can forgive before or after reconciliation, or even if reconciliation doesn't occur at all. You're a person that doesn't believe if forgiving, and therefore will never understand that.
Tech_E Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 The usual suspects decend.... My opinion changed post D-day only insofar as to believe that for me I could forgive cheating in my marriage. I was as sure as I could be that if cheating occured our relationship was over. That has not turned out to be the case. I still feel cheating is morally wrong, I still feel there is no excuse for it. It has changed my opinion of my wife, it has. I won't lie, but that view is still morphing. It'll take time for me to properly process the decisions we BOTH made. I can say that I was never really a 'marriage advocate' as such, now, I have ZERO use for the institute of marriage. Kind of funny considering I am still married but it is what it is.
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