Why do I still believe the lie of destiny?

[Zansatsu]

I always get philosophical after a couple of drinks and while I've been through therapy and learned that everything is never as simple as we like to believe it is...

 

Why do I always keep coming back to fantasies about "The One" and how she's going to make my life sooo much better?

 

I'm so tired of being told "You will find the one, just wait."

 

I'm tired of waiting. I've been told so many specifics about her that she exists in my head: this fictitious entity who is just waiting to find me too. I've already had my heart broken once and it was because I was too idealistic and couldn't accept her for who she was. And all for this ideal that I've been sold by American society.

 

Tell me how to kill this obsession off! I don't want to pine anymore.

 

What do I have to do to make the "ghost lover" go away?

 

Preach to me. Be honest! I'm so tired of being lied to...

[BlindRage]

You know what... have fun for now. Do everything and anything you've ever wanted to try. Don't think about this "one". Go out! It's a large world.

[D-Lish]

Believing in destiny is a cop out. It's believing that your life is already mapped out for you and you have no control over the outcome.

 

That's not how life works.

 

You're in charge of creating your own path in life, so go out there and make it happen.

[Zansatsu]

Believing in destiny is a cop out. It's believing that your life is already mapped out for you and you have no control over the outcome.

 

That's not how life works.

 

You're in charge of creating your own path in life, so go out there and make it happen.

 

You are a hard hitter. So, what if you've been brainwashed? What would you do realizing this?

[D-Lish]

You are a hard hitter. So, what if you've been brainwashed? What would you do realizing this?

 

Well, I do realize this- this is how I view life. When bad things happen, I see them as random events- some of which I have control over, some of which I don't. No divine plan involved.

 

I believe life is random. I'll have control over certain things- and no control over other things- so I only worry about what I control.

 

In what way have you been brainwashed?

[thelovingkind]

For an idea that is associated with hopeless romantics, the curious thing about destiny for me is that it's based on such an incredibly unromantic premise. The idea that we're being steered through life by an omniscient force and thrust into someone else's arms and kept there because of some distant order of things is rather depressing. I prefer to think that it goes like this: you meet someone who you might never have met, you make a connection that was never anticipated until the moment things "sparked", and then you stay together, day in, day out, not because it's fixed as destiny but because you both choose to work at making that your destiny every single day. Knowing that you could just as easily be alone, or be with ten of thousands of other people around the world, but being with the one you choose because neither of you can think of any better way to spend your lives than in the accompany of this one other human being: now that's romantic

[fiat500]

ideal isn't perfection.

[RuinedLife]

I always get philosophical after a couple of drinks and while I've been through therapy and learned that everything is never as simple as we like to believe it is...

 

Why do I always keep coming back to fantasies about "The One" and how she's going to make my life sooo much better?

 

I'm so tired of being told "You will find the one, just wait."

 

I'm tired of waiting. I've been told so many specifics about her that she exists in my head: this fictitious entity who is just waiting to find me too. I've already had my heart broken once and it was because I was too idealistic and couldn't accept her for who she was. And all for this ideal that I've been sold by American society.

 

Tell me how to kill this obsession off! I don't want to pine anymore.

 

What do I have to do to make the "ghost lover" go away?

 

Preach to me. Be honest! I'm so tired of being lied to...

 

I can relate somewhat, as I too have been struggling with the concept of "the one" and thinking my ex was my best and only real chance at happiness and that I was stupid enough to lose him so I will now be forever alone or unsatisfied by other relationships.

 

And I can't lie to you, I'm still struggling with these things. But I think that the concept of "the one" is a myth or more specifically that there are lots of potential "ones" for us out there who will connect with us in all those "right ways".

 

I know heartbreak is truly horrible but BlindRage and D=Lish are right, you have to just try and get out there and have as much fun as possible while you have the chance!

 

As for idealizing your ex too much, I can relate to that as well, as I still idealize my ex a lot too and he still sits high on a pedestal in my mind. But it is all my mind's distorted perceptions of him, because really... he is no more special than anyone else when it comes down to it, yes he has unique qualities that make him a "special individual" in my eyes, but he also hurt me a lot and although we connected in many ways, we also clashed in a few key ways and he also changed so we grew apart.

 

But I know its hard. And I do struggle too, to believe that I will ever meet anyone as good, let alone better than him, but when it comes down to it... you have to have hope that one day you will meet someone better, someone who will be a better match for you and who will love you through thick and thin. Although, of course this "better match" just be another lost soul like you and me, with hurts and flaws just like everyone else in this often cruel and unfair world.

[Zansatsu]

In what way have you been brainwashed?

 

I've allowed myself to believe in a fantasy, and I want a realistic and grounding perspective. You see and hear all the time (media, movies, TV, books) about people who feel "magic" when they meet. I've always prided myself in being pragmatic and I'm questioning my personal assumptions. "En vino et veritas," so I'm looking for truth. Of course, maybe that's another assumption I need to question, there is no absolute truth. But at some point in my youth, I allowed myself to entertain this fantastic notion that I have someone already matched for me and I have to find her, but instead, by my own fault, I think she is just going to "bump into me." LIES!

 

I'm tired of contrasting the "Love conquers all" theme with a loveless and lonely life. I force myself into isolation because no one can live up to my standards. I know this is a problem, so I want perspective and I'm questioning myself. Hence, I feel brainwashed because I can't shake the fantasy.

[Zansatsu]

For an idea that is associated with hopeless romantics, the curious thing about destiny for me is that it's based on such an incredibly unromantic premise. The idea that we're being steered through life by an omniscient force and thrust into someone else's arms and kept there because of some distant order of things is rather depressing. I prefer to think that it goes like this: you meet someone who you might never have met, you make a connection that was never anticipated until the moment things "sparked", and then you stay together, day in, day out, not because it's fixed as destiny but because you both choose to work at making that your destiny every single day. Knowing that you could just as easily be alone, or be with ten of thousands of other people around the world, but being with the one you choose because neither of you can think of any better way to spend your lives than in the accompany of this one other human being: now that's romantic

 

 

And while I love that ideal, romanticism is not realistic. Granted: realism is an ideal unto itself and therefore by the fact of being defined, and therefore abstracted is rendered unrealistic by the act of abstraction.

 

But the fact remains that this thought, while I would love to favor it, only reinforces my gravitation to the fantasy.

[RuinedLife]

For an idea that is associated with hopeless romantics, the curious thing about destiny for me is that it's based on such an incredibly unromantic premise. The idea that we're being steered through life by an omniscient force and thrust into someone else's arms and kept there because of some distant order of things is rather depressing. I prefer to think that it goes like this:

 

You meet someone who you might never have met, you make a connection that was never anticipated until the moment things "sparked", and then you stay together, day in, day out, not because it's fixed as destiny but because you both choose to work at making that your destiny every single day. Knowing that you could just as easily be alone, or be with ten of thousands of other people around the world, but being with the one you choose because neither of you can think of any better way to spend your lives than in the company of this one other human being: now that's romantic

 

I LOVE this way of looking at things!!

 

I only wish my ex was as determined to work through our issues as I am, as I honestly feel he was "my one" even though logically and statistically I think the whole concept is a myth and even if it wasn't, then the mere fact that he's not by my side now and the fact that he's hurt me so much and completely smashed my heart to dust indicates that he is anything but "the one" for me.

[Nohbody]

Qui est veritas?

[thelovingkind]

You see and hear all the time (media, movies, TV, books) about people who feel "magic" when they meet.

Well, this isn't to do with destiny, just infatuation, which is little more than a glorified high. Of course it feels amazing to have that magic, and I do think it provides a useful role in bringing two people together and helping them bond, but this can occur with many people (many of whom are wholly unsuited to being your life partner) and has little to do with "The One" or some grand scheme of destiny.

[Zansatsu]

ideal isn't perfection.

 

This depends on your definition of 'ideal,' as ideal can indeed equal perfection.

My question weighs heavily on perspective. However, if you can simplify it down this far, tell me how to do the same.

 

Elaborate: three words does not a good rebuttal make. (Four words of you are a grammar 'purist' and count contractions as two words, however, my point remains valid.)

[Zansatsu]

Well, this isn't to do with destiny, just infatuation, which is little more than a glorified high. Of course it feels amazing to have that magic, and I do think it provides a useful role in bringing two people together and helping them bond, but this can occur with many people (many of whom are wholly unsuited to being your life partner) and has little to do with "The One" or some grand scheme of destiny.

 

So where would you say that your idea of "magic" came from? Was it experienced? Were you shown this? When did you learn to define it?

[0hpenelope]

I always get philosophical after a couple of drinks and while I've been through therapy and learned that everything is never as simple as we like to believe it is...

 

Why do I always keep coming back to fantasies about "The One" and how she's going to make my life sooo much better?

 

I'm so tired of being told "You will find the one, just wait."

 

I'm tired of waiting. I've been told so many specifics about her that she exists in my head: this fictitious entity who is just waiting to find me too. I've already had my heart broken once and it was because I was too idealistic and couldn't accept her for who she was. And all for this ideal that I've been sold by American society.

 

Tell me how to kill this obsession off! I don't want to pine anymore.

 

What do I have to do to make the "ghost lover" go away?

 

Preach to me. Be honest! I'm so tired of being lied to...

 

One of the things that "killed" the idea of The One, for me, is having family friends whose husband or wife passed away, yet they managed to find a new relationship. Or two.

 

So the deceased spouse... does that make him or her lesser of "The One" than the new partner since he/she, you know, passed away? Does that mean that the living new partner is more of "The One" because in spite of the long-term attachment to the deceased spouse, he/she managed to find his/her way to the living spouse? I hope that made sense.

 

I also don't believe in "The One" because I've found myself being really compatible with a lot of the guys I've had crushes on. I suppose the myth feeds itself because the rationale is, "WELL, you obviously didn't choose any of those guys, but you ended up with him. That alone means the one you ended up with's The One." Um.... no. It means that, when I find the man I'll end up with, I've gone through the trial/error process of relationships, learned how to ask questions about the guy instead of going by just feelings (bad idea, it's more than just feelings - getting my brain involved is a necessary part of this process), that I've found someone who's choosing to stay with me and chose to work on problems as a team rather than just giving up (with exceptions like abuse, violence against myself and my family, cheating, etc.). It's easier to quit than to work on things, but where does that lead quitters? I suppose some of them lead "happier" lives since they can attach/detach seemingly at will, but the quality itself says a lot about their character.

 

A friend strongly agreed with me about relationships being easier to leave than to work on; in her case, it's about her friendship with a different friend. I see her viewpoint, but I'm not willing to take that: if she can treat a friend like that, it means I'm not immune to that same treatment. After learning that about her, it was actually a really big turn off for me to keep in touch with her.

 

Anyway, that's my personal anecdote on "The One." I think people are free to believe in that and I don't think you're delusional. I think that it's more like your perspectives are starting to change and it's good to explore it. Good luck to you.

[thelovingkind]

So where would you say that your idea of "magic" came from? Was it experienced? Were you shown this? When did you learn to define it?

I would say direct experience. Before I had my own romantic connections of any kind I was "trained" in the Hollywood school of romance, so to speak. I was shown what love looked like; I learned what to expect and on what terms it should be defined.

 

But in my own experience, in the direct moment, all of these expectations and preconceptions melted away. I think this is kind of the core of that idea of "magic" for me - it is the moments you experience only in relation to that one other specific person and only in terms of what you share together. It's that specificity that makes it magical. For all the hundreds of millions of people who have had similar experiences, and for all the experiences I myself have had before and will have after, no one except me and the other person will ever share that same time in that same way, and that's why it feels special.

[RuinedLife]

Well, this isn't to do with destiny, just infatuation, which is little more than a glorified high. Of course it feels amazing to have that magic, and I do think it provides a useful role in bringing two people together and helping them bond, but this can occur with many people (many of whom are wholly unsuited to being your life partner) and has little to do with "The One" or some grand scheme of destiny.

 

Yes, exactly. The "magic" of which you speak, is purely a biochemical connection and a physiological attraction, possibly reinforced with some level of psychological compatibility.

 

And as for finding an "ideal" or "perfect" partner, maybe try to think of it this way: are you perfect, do you never make mistakes? My guess would be no, given that you've already admitted to being brain washed by society and are struggling to shake your belief in "the one". So given that you are not perfect, you can't really expect anyone else to be either right? As we all have our flaws and weaknesses and we all make mistakes. I know I definitely do. And I've made some horrible mistakes, ones that pushed the love of my mind away from me, and that I regret every day.

 

And while I know my ex has many issues, I also know I do too, as so I did try to keep our relationship going best I could despite his imperfections and problems. So in the sense that in order for something to work out, thelovingkind is right that it takes two people who are willing to commit to working through issues together and to loving each other every day, to make a relationship work.

 

And it is all too easy in today's world, where everyone strives for perfection to think "Huh, my partner made this mistake or that" and to decided to trade them away from a "better model"... that's where the romanticism is lost.

 

People give up on relationships too easily these days and aren't willing to stick at it through the rough patches and to work on the issues that will inevitably crop up. Some people are more willing to stick it out than others of course, and when there is an unequal commitment, then naturally it may crumble, and I for one, think that's very sad, but it happens all the time, especially in today's modern world.

[Zansatsu]

One of the things that "killed" the idea of The One, for me, is having family friends whose husband or wife passed away, yet they managed to find a new relationship. Or two.

 

So the deceased spouse... does that make him or her lesser of "The One" than the new partner since he/she, you know, passed away? Does that mean that the living new partner is more of "The One" because in spite of the long-term attachment to the deceased spouse, he/she managed to find his/her way to the living spouse? I hope that made sense.

 

I also don't believe in "The One" because I've found myself being really compatible with a lot of the guys I've had crushes on. I suppose the myth feeds itself because the rationale is, "WELL, you obviously didn't choose any of those guys, but you ended up with him. That alone means the one you ended up with's The One." Um.... no. It means that, when I find the man I'll end up with, I've gone through the trial/error process of relationships, learned how to ask questions about the guy instead of going by just feelings (bad idea, it's more than just feelings - getting my brain involved is a necessary part of this process), that I've found someone who's choosing to stay with me and chose to work on problems as a team rather than just giving up (with exceptions like abuse, violence against myself and my family, cheating, etc.). It's easier to quit than to work on things, but where does that lead quitters? I suppose some of them lead "happier" lives since they can attach/detach seemingly at will, but the quality itself says a lot about their character.

 

A friend strongly agreed with me about relationships being easier to leave than to work on; in her case, it's about her friendship with a different friend. I see her viewpoint, but I'm not willing to take that: if she can treat a friend like that, it means I'm not immune to that same treatment. After learning that about her, it was actually a really big turn off for me to keep in touch with her.

 

Anyway, that's my personal anecdote on "The One." I think people are free to believe in that and I don't think you're delusional. I think that it's more like your perspectives are starting to change and it's good to explore it. Good luck to you.

 

You are right. It's easier to leave a relationship than to stay in one, but at what point is enough enough? How long should you be used before deciding that they are indeed using you and not just leaning on you for "help"?

 

While working things out is important, there also has to be a level of reciprocity to the relationship. At some point you have to do the inevitable "opportunity cost" analysis of the relationship and ask, "would I be happier doing something else?"

 

I do appreciate your support, but I'm trying to dislodge an unrealistic fantasy I have so I can break out of my shell and move forward.

[Zansatsu]

I would say direct experience. Before I had my own romantic connections of any kind I was "trained" in the Hollywood school of romance, so to speak. I was shown what love looked like; I learned what to expect and on what terms it should be defined.

 

But in my own experience, in the direct moment, all of these expectations and preconceptions melted away. I think this is kind of the core of that idea of "magic" for me - it is the moments you experience only in relation to that one other specific person and only in terms of what you share together. It's that specificity that makes it magical. For all the hundreds of millions of people who have had similar experiences, and for all the experiences I myself have had before and will have after, no one except me and the other person will ever share that same time in that same way, and that's why it feels special.

 

This feels like a contradiction though! If it's an experience shared by millions of people, then how is it special? If it is depicted so often that we lose track of the difference between the depiction and the feeling, what do we do? How do we know that what we feel isn't a product of everything we've seen before? And don't use the "you will just know" argument, because if you've been fed something enough, then it becomes automatic.

[RuinedLife]

You are right. It's easier to leave a relationship than to stay in one, but at what point is enough enough? How long should you be used before deciding that they are indeed using you and not just leaning on you for "help"?

 

While working things out is important, there also has to be a level of reciprocity to the relationship. At some point you have to do the inevitable "opportunity cost" analysis of the relationship and ask, "would I be happier doing something else?"

 

I do appreciate your support, but I'm trying to dislodge an unrealistic fantasy I have so I can break out of my shell and move forward.

 

I don't think there is any definite limits for this, all depends on how much you "love" the person, how much you care about them, how much you personally are willing to invest in the relationship etc.

[thelovingkind]

I don't think it stands as a general statement that it's easier to quit a relationship than to stay in one and work on it. It depends a great deal on the individual. There are some people who have a fear of intimacy and will go through life avoiding commitment and cutting and running if they find things getting a little too "deep" for their liking. But there are other people who have an obsession with intimacy because they lack the self-purpose and strength of character needed to validate themselves as a single person. These people will find it much easier to stay in a lacklustre or even emotionally abusive relationship than to break away and define life for themselves.

 

In the past I think I've fallen into the latter category. I know this because I've never broken up with anyone and yet in retrospect I'm thankful for each person for breaking up with me. You have to know your own personal shortfalls and re-balance your life accordingly. This year, for example, my goal is to become comfortable with a more fluid approach to dating and relationships - letting people enter my life, spend some time there, and leave if things aren't right, rather than trying to staple them down into a commitment and enshrine them as my "One" and saviour the moment they wander curiously into my existence. For someone with a crippling fear of intimacy, this is probably their second nature and the last thing they ought to be doing. For me it's difficult and something I need to work on. As I said, know your weaknesses and act accordingly.

[Zansatsu]

Yes, exactly. The "magic" of which you speak, is purely a biochemical connection and a physiological attraction, possibly reinforced with some level of psychological compatibility.

 

And as for finding an "ideal" or "perfect" partner, maybe try to think of it this way: are you perfect, do you never make mistakes? My guess would be no, given that you've already admitted to being brain washed by society and are struggling to shake your belief in "the one". So given that you are not perfect, you can't really expect anyone else to be either right? As we all have our flaws and weaknesses and we all make mistakes. I know I definitely do. And I've made some horrible mistakes, ones that pushed the love of my mind away from me, and that I regret every day.

 

And while I know my ex has many issues, I also know I do too, as so I did try to keep our relationship going best I could despite his imperfections and problems. So in the sense that in order for something to work out, thelovingkind is right that it takes two people who are willing to commit to working through issues together and to loving each other every day, to make a relationship work.

 

And it is all too easy in today's world, where everyone strives for perfection to think "Huh, my partner made this mistake or that" and to decided to trade them away from a "better model"... that's where the romanticism is lost.

 

People give up on relationships too easily these days and aren't willing to stick at it through the rough patches and to work on the issues that will inevitably crop up. Some people are more willing to stick it out than others of course, and when there is an unequal commitment, then naturally it may crumble, and I for one, think that's very sad, but it happens all the time, especially in today's modern world.

 

Maybe you are right that I have a sense of "entitlement" that I need to shake. My mother telling me that she wants grandchildren doesn't help and I would like to think that I'm a handsome, honest, and nice guy. It just amazes me that I'm still single in my 30s. I guess I need to stop comparing myself to my parents and remember that they grew up in a world devoid of the connectivity we see today.

 

Which means that I may have problems coping with the fact that I can't handle the level of connectedness I deal with everyday. Maybe I shut down relationships because I'm having a hard time coping with everyday life?

 

I love and hate this site all at the same time. I bare my soul more to you strangers than I ever would to anyone I love. Maybe it's because I'm afraid of the ones closest to me. I'm afraid they will hurt me. With all of you, I can write you off as ones and zeros, but real people equal real pain... that's a sad realization.

 

More. I need your perspectives.

[Zansatsu]

...You have to know your own personal shortfalls and re-balance your life accordingly... As I said, know your weaknesses and act accordingly.

 

Thank you. Very well put.

[RuinedLife]

This feels like a contradiction though! If it's an experience shared by millions of people, then how is it special? If it is depicted so often that we lose track of the difference between the depiction and the feeling, what do we do? How do we know that what we feel isn't a product of everything we've seen before? And don't use the "you will just know" argument, because if you've been fed something enough, then it becomes automatic.

 

Ok you are starting to sound a lot like me here.

 

You seem to want deep and detailed explanations for why and how romantic connections happen? And also how they happen for different individuals and between different individuals, then any more vague and all encompassing generalizations or sweeping statements?

 

But really, its not an either or situation, as yes millions of people experience similar seemingly "magical" connections to others as a result of biochemical, physiological, psychological compatibility and 'being in the right place at the right time'.

 

But a single connection between one person and another can also be viewed as "special" at the personal level and indeed their connection will be unique if you analyse it in more detail, even though at the same time, that same connection can be viewed as 'less unique' in the grander scheme of life, the universe and everything, when you opt for a more statistical analysis of "magical bonding" or "ideal romanticism" on a global scale.