RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) My H felt shame too. He only wanted my parents and my brother to know out of necessity (to keep the kids during right after dday). He's told me why. He was ashamed that our marriage wasn't the great marriage everyone thought is was. He felt like he failed as a husband - like he wasn't enough for me. He was ashamed of me. I've since talked some sense into him about him not being enough for me and about not being good enough. Maybe it's natural for some BSs to blame themselves and therefore feel shame. I hate that my H had to feel that way. He understands better now. He knows that it was my choice, and there is no excuse for cheating. He's always been the type to be ashamed easily, even when he shouldn't. That might have something to do with. He's not ashamed of himself. It's interesting that in the course of a single paragraph, after acknowledging he was ashamed of what you did, somehow you managed to turn it around and make it seem as if his shame feeling was some sort of deficiency in himself ("ashamed [too] easily"). Do you really think he was ashamed too easily, in this particular case? A spouse cheating on a person is about the most "shameful" thing imaginable--isn't it? Edited July 22, 2011 by RepairMinded
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I remember reading that a marriage with infidelity is more likely to end when when family, relatives/ colleagues know about the affair. This is most likely accurate and there's a very simple explanation for it: the publicity of the affair is a form of consequence to the cheating spouse. Cheaters don't like to deal with consequences. If this is true then it suggests that the decision is not necessarily based on the marriage itself/ relationship with their partner. But rather external factors, the views of other people. It has nothing to do with the views of other people. It has to do with the actions of the cheater which resulted in other people having a lesser opinion of the cheater after the disclosure, and the cheater's unwillingness to deal with the fallout. But surely such a decision should be guided by how you feel and what you think is right, rather than what others think. If the cheater was concerned about what is "right" they wouldn't have cheated in the first place. And we all have to live in a social world in which actions do have consequences.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Maybe it's natural for some BSs to blame themselves and therefore feel shame. I hate that my H had to feel that way. He understands better now. He knows that it was my choice, and there is no excuse for cheating. That's not the point at all. He misjudged your character. When he chose you to be his wife, that was HIS choice.
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 He misjudged your character. When he chose you to be his wife You can't say that. People change. Life's ups and downs can do that. The woman I married would never have dreamed of cheating. The woman I was with nearly two decades later was not that same person.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 You can't say that. I just did. People change. Sometimes. Life's ups and downs can do that. Life's ups and downs don't cause people to cheat. The woman I married would never have dreamed of cheating. The woman you married did cheat. Same exact woman. The woman I was with nearly two decades later was not that same person. Obviously she was the same person.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Odd. She never mentioned you. Why would she mention me?
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Why would she mention me? You obviously know her quite well.
KathyM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 If my husband cheated on me, I would be extremely ashamed and not want anyone to know--not even a close relative or confidant. Not my kids. No one. A married couple is a unit, and when the one spouse does something shameful, it brings shame upon the other as well. When my sister's husband was unfaithful, I was the only one she told, and she swore me to secrecy. A secret I kept for 20 years until he cheated again and they ended up divorced. Then she told the relatives. Both partners often feel shame because of an affair.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 You obviously know her quite well. The woman who cheated on you is the same woman you married, and your wish to deny this reality is no cause for you to be sarcastic.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 If my husband cheated on me, I would be extremely ashamed and not want anyone to know--not even a close relative or confidant. Not my kids. No one. A married couple is a unit, and when the one spouse does something shameful, it brings shame upon the other as well. When my sister's husband was unfaithful, I was the only one she told, and she swore me to secrecy. A secret I kept for 20 years until he cheated again and they ended up divorced. Then she told the relatives. Both partners often feel shame because of an affair. This proves the point that it is not disclosure of an affair that ends the marriage (when it ends). It is the actions of the cheater in having cheated that is the efficient cause of the end of the marriage. Whether there is disclosure or not.
reboot Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 The woman who cheated on you is the same woman you married, and your wish to deny this reality is no cause for you to be sarcastic. Well yes, genetically speaking. She wasn't a clone. People (normal people) change (beliefs, attitudes, values) over time. We aren't all perfect creatures such as yourself, with set in stone, unchanging, unerring moral compasses. It must be quite challenging to find someone "good enough" to be with you.
drifter777 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I guess that makes sense. I just found it "shocking" that a person who found the courage to stay in the relationship would feel shame. I think I would also find it shocking that a person might feel shame if they decided to leave. I wouldn't consider them a failure either. I think it is sad that any BS would feel shame for something so much out of their control. In no way did I then (or do I know) think of myself as "courageous" for choosing to stay and work through the mess my wife made by cheating. Most of my anger has waned over the years as she has finally conceded that the sexual experience she thought was so important was simply an excuse to slut around. She tried for years to believe that bull**** so she wouldn't have to face the fact she acted like a selfish child and caused more pain then she could have ever imagined. No, I'm ashamed of myself for taking her back and wasting 20+ years of my life for the sake of my children and my fear of abandonment. It took no courage - none - and it angers me when anyone suggests that I am courageous for choosing reconciliation. I am a coward and proved it by not walking away from a cheating wife. This episode in my life has been quite defining in that I have never really trusted anyone since and never will. I expect the worst in people and have tremendous self-esteem issues. Maybe this is just who I am and the result of internalizing the betrayal and rejection of her cheating. I chose to "tough it out" instead of acknowledging my feelings and working with a MC to resolve some of these issues. But, I was too ashamed to even acknowledge the cheating to a shrink/counselor. If I could have found my balls, I would have walked away and she would have been dead to me.
JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) He's not ashamed of himself. It's interesting that in the course of a single paragraph, after acknowledging he was ashamed of what you did, somehow you managed to turn it around and make it seem as if his shame feeling was some sort of deficiency in himself ("ashamed [too] easily"). Do you really think he was ashamed too easily, in this particular case? A spouse cheating on a person is about the most "shameful" thing imaginable--isn't it? I'm only saying what he told me. He told me he was ashamed of himself. I don't agree with him...as I already explained. I was ashamed of myself of course. Cheating is shameful. I still carry the shame. I probably always will. As far as him being ashamed too easily, I was referring to other experiences in our lives (not the affair). I think what I meant rather than "ashamed too easily" is that he worries too much what other people think. I'm sorry I really didn't make that clear. Edited July 22, 2011 by JaneyAmazed
JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 . It took no courage - none - and it angers me when anyone suggests that I am courageous for choosing reconciliation. I am a coward and proved it by not walking away from a cheating wife. In my H's case, I would not have called him a coward either way. He shows courage by staying with me because he believes we have a chance although it will take a lot of work to repair. It's possible he could change his mind his mind in the future and leave me, and I would not call him a coward for that either. Only he will know what is right for him.
KathyM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 This proves the point that it is not disclosure of an affair that ends the marriage (when it ends). It is the actions of the cheater in having cheated that is the efficient cause of the end of the marriage. Whether there is disclosure or not. It is usually the betrayal and broken trust that causes the divorce, and most marriages cannot withstand an affair because of that, understandably, but I'm sure there are cases where the BS was ambivalent about what to do or whether to leave, and was talked into leaving by friends or relatives.
Tech_E Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Janey, careful you are unable to fully understand the thought processes of a BS. I most definitely DO NOT consider myself a coward for reconciling with my wife. In fact quite the opposite. She made her decisions and took the actions she took, I did the same. I feel ashamed of what I did and she feels ashamed over what she did. However, my decision to reconcile and her decision to accept was one that took courage. This road is harder than I ever thought it could be, but I am willing to keep trying.
drifter777 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 In my H's case, I would not have called him a coward either way. He shows courage by staying with me because he believes we have a chance although it will take a lot of work to repair. It's possible he could change his mind his mind in the future and leave me, and I would not call him a coward for that either. Only he will know what is right for him. To be clear, I'm not calling anyone a coward or judging whether a BS should stay & try to reconcile or just walk away. Every case is unique. I'm simply sharing MY feelings about MY situation.
KathyM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 In no way did I then (or do I know) think of myself as "courageous" for choosing to stay and work through the mess my wife made by cheating. Most of my anger has waned over the years as she has finally conceded that the sexual experience she thought was so important was simply an excuse to slut around. She tried for years to believe that bull**** so she wouldn't have to face the fact she acted like a selfish child and caused more pain then she could have ever imagined. No, I'm ashamed of myself for taking her back and wasting 20+ years of my life for the sake of my children and my fear of abandonment. It took no courage - none - and it angers me when anyone suggests that I am courageous for choosing reconciliation. I am a coward and proved it by not walking away from a cheating wife. This episode in my life has been quite defining in that I have never really trusted anyone since and never will. I expect the worst in people and have tremendous self-esteem issues. Maybe this is just who I am and the result of internalizing the betrayal and rejection of her cheating. I chose to "tough it out" instead of acknowledging my feelings and working with a MC to resolve some of these issues. But, I was too ashamed to even acknowledge the cheating to a shrink/counselor. If I could have found my balls, I would have walked away and she would have been dead to me. You should get counseling at this point to help you deal with your feelings of anger, betrayal, and mistrust. To allow one bad person to scew your feelings about people in general is harmful to you. You deserve to find happiness with someone that is trustworthy, and when you have not been able to process and move on from past hurts, you are cheating yourself out of a life that you could have with someone else.
RepairMinded Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Well yes, genetically speaking. She wasn't a clone. Not just genetically. You just don't want to admit to even the possibility that when your wife cheated on you it may well have been the manifestation of an aspect of her personality (not just her "genetics") that was always there, but perhaps well-hidden from you. People (normal people) change (beliefs, attitudes, values) over time. You really believe that an adult's core values are so easily changed? I think core values are largely developed during childhood/early adulthood and are very very difficult to change thereafter. I certainly don't believe too many fundamentally honest, non-selfish, faithful spouses somehow decide one day that it's O.K. to cheat because something made them arbitrarily decide that cheating is not so bad anymore. Your wife, a good and faithful spouse for decades, one day had an epiphany which caused her to throw away her integrity? And not only to throw it away--to actually believe it was O.K. to do so? We aren't all perfect creatures such as yourself, with set in stone, unchanging, unerring moral compasses. I never said I had a perfect compass but I also know enough not to pretend a broken compass is a reliable guide. It must be quite challenging to find someone "good enough" to be with you. Maybe, but it would be impossible to find such a person if I'm using a broken compass.
KathyM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) You should get counseling at this point to help you deal with your feelings of anger, betrayal, and mistrust. To allow one bad person to scew your feelings about people in general is harmful to you. You deserve to find happiness with someone that is trustworthy, and when you have not been able to process and move on from past hurts, you are cheating yourself out of a life that you could have with someone else. Sorry, I misread the original post. I tried to edit my response, but was not able to. You are still with your wife, but wish that you had left her, and now cannot trust anyone else. I still suggest MC and/or IC to work on your trust issues. Although I don't think trust can ever be fully restored once it has been broken, you should work with a counselor on your mistrust of others. A counselor may be able to get you to see that your wife is not like everyone else. There are many people who can be trusted and are trustworthy. It would be a shame to go through life with mistrust of everyone because of one person's actions. Counseling would be a good thing for you to work on this issue. (This is directed to Drifter who says his cheating wife has caused him to mistrust everyone else). Edited July 22, 2011 by KathyM
OWoman Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I remember reading that a marriage with infidelity is more likely to end when when family, relatives/ colleagues know about the affair. Unfortunately I cant remember where I read this (please let me know if you have read this too and know the source). If this is true then it suggests that the decision is not necessarily based on the marriage itself/ relationship with their partner. But rather external factors, the views of other people. But surely such a decision should be guided by how you feel and what you think is right, rather than what others think. Just wondered what others think? This would depend on many factors. In the case of my H's A, it held true. His family, friends and colleagues knew about the A, and supported us as a couple. This support and social endorsement helped him end the M and move full-time into the "approved" R. Without the support from everyone, not knowing how they felt about it, it would have been far more difficult to choose love over obligation.
drifter777 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Sorry, I misread the original post. I tried to edit my response, but was not able to. You are still with your wife, but wish that you had left her, and now cannot trust anyone else. I still suggest MC and/or IC to work on your trust issues. Although I don't think trust can ever be fully restored once it has been broken, you should work with a counselor on your mistrust of others. A counselor may be able to get you to see that your wife is not like everyone else. There are many people who can be trusted and are trustworthy. It would be a shame to go through life with mistrust of everyone because of one person's actions. Counseling would be a good thing for you to work on this issue. (This is directed to Drifter who says his cheating wife has caused him to mistrust everyone else). My wife's cheating was sort of like the straw that broke the camels back. I used to be a very trusting person and wanted to believe that people were basically good and truthful. This naive approach to life caused a series of disappointments culminated by an unfaithful spouse. I've learned my lesson from life and will never trust anyone with my hopes and dreams and heart again. How can you "love like you've never been hurt" when you have been emotionally crushed by love so many times?
JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Janey, careful you are unable to fully understand the thought processes of a BS. I most definitely DO NOT consider myself a coward for reconciling with my wife. In fact quite the opposite. She made her decisions and took the actions she took, I did the same. I feel ashamed of what I did and she feels ashamed over what she did. However, my decision to reconcile and her decision to accept was one that took courage. This road is harder than I ever thought it could be, but I am willing to keep trying. That's what I said I thought. I was referring to drifter's opinion of himself, not all BSs anyway. I was saying that no matter what my H decided/decides to do, he is courageous to me.
JaneyAmazed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 To be clear, I'm not calling anyone a coward or judging whether a BS should stay & try to reconcile or just walk away. Every case is unique. I'm simply sharing MY feelings about MY situation. Yes, you made it clear before. I was just sharing my situation as well. Like you said, every case is unique. I totally agree.
Recommended Posts