counterman Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Today I was speaking to one of my girl friends. I hadn't heard from her for several months, so I a bit taken aback when I heard a lot has happened. Going back to several months ago, she was sharing with me her concerns that no guys were interested in her and kept asking me to rate her, which I didn't. She was saying that no guys have ever asked her out and it really kept her down. Also, to add to that, she was physical with (a lot of touching and hugs) early on when I first met her, which I found a bit strange. Fast forward to when we went clubbing together with a bunch of friends. A random guy standard touching her up and she offer no resistance. It was obvious what this guy wanted but she encouraged him to continue. I don't exactly know what happened later but she ended up crying that night. That was when I last heard from her until today. She told me she went out clubbing a lot and I was happy that she was having fun. She then told me she lost her virginity to an exchange student, who was her friend. He has left the country already. She said it so matter-of-factly, and even started to brag that she got with a foreign guy. Bear in mind, I hadn't spoken to her for ages since then and only just asked "how have you been?". She then further said that she 'loves' him and that she was sure he felt the same way. I was disgusted by this and disappointed in her. Being around some guys, I know what they think and it seems that this guy who was going to leave anyway, just wanted to have sex, and it seems like she did too. She seemed so validated by it, and extremely proud to lose her virginity. She went on to further say that this guy filled every one of her boxes and that he was her perfect dream guy. She said that ever since high school she wondered what it would be like to lose her virginity (which she says all girls think about) and it was everything she imagined. I don't know but I just don't want to go near her anymore. However, when I think about it, if there was a chance that I would have a ONS with a really hot girl, I don't think I would refuse it. But, that thought always leaves me with an empty feeling inside. Why am I so disappointed her in?
zengirl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I don't know if you're disappointed in her in part because of gender hypocrisy (which is certainly possible), but really, besides that, I think her story is sad for 2 reasons: 1. It was her virginity. I'm not saying it has to be the love of your life, but it's always sad to me when someone loses their virginity to a random semi-stranger. At least have it be a friend or someone you grew up with or something. Preferably a SO you at least really liked, if not loved. But I'm old fashioned. 2. She brought "love" into something that clearly wasn't love. Which is just sad.
rafallus Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) You probably hold her to some holier-than-thou standards. There is nothing inherently wrong with her having sex - humans have sex drive, she is a person, not some angel-like creature of sorts. Or do you want to be like those guys she's telling you about, but aren't exuding enough masculinity to do so? Because for now you seem like her emotional tampon - she goes to party and mess around, and you get to listen to her talk about her conquests, with no real benefits for yourself. Edited July 21, 2011 by rafallus
utterer of lies Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Why am I so disappointed her in? Because she didn't pick you for random sex.
Enchanted Girl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Probably gender hypocrisy. Where girls are tainted if they want to sleep around, but guys get congratulated for it. It's okay when a guy does it and gross when a girl does for no real reason at all, even though if a guy does it there has to be a girl on the other side (who apparantally deserves no respect because of it.) Unless you hold men to the same standards. If that's the case, then your morals were just bothered by it because she gave away her virginity so lightly.
Author counterman Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 I don't know if you're disappointed in her in part because of gender hypocrisy (which is certainly possible), but really, besides that, I think her story is sad for 2 reasons: 1. It was her virginity. I'm not saying it has to be the love of your life, but it's always sad to me when someone loses their virginity to a random semi-stranger. At least have it be a friend or someone you grew up with or something. Preferably a SO you at least really liked, if not loved. But I'm old fashioned. 2. She brought "love" into something that clearly wasn't love. Which is just sad. I think gender hypocrisy would definitely play a part in my disappointment, I'll get back to that later. I'm a bit old-fashioned too even though I'm a young guy. I think it was sad that she just wanted to lose it to feel validated to someone she barely knew and called it 'love'. It's human nature to rationalize situations when we are feeling some guilt or regret, so would go easy on her about the losing virginity and "love" part. What's done is done. It's also human nature to get turned off when our friends show inconsistency and insincerity, which explains your feelings about her. Her clubbing habits are also a huge turn off. She is showing every sign of becoming a compulsive club ho, and there's nothing you can do about that. You're right. I've largely kept my views to myself and will continue to do so. I agree that's partly why I am disappointed. She was so sincere about her lack of attention from guys when I first met her and I saw her vulnerability, now she seems to have lost her innocence completely. Definitely nothing I can do about that and I don't want to do anything about it. You probably hold her to some holier-than-thou standards. There is nothing inherently wrong with her having sex - humans have sex drive, she is a person, not some angel-like creature of sorts. Or do you want to be like those guys she's telling you about, but aren't exuding enough masculinity to do so? Because for now you seem like her emotional tampon - she goes to party and mess around, and you get to listen to her talk about her conquests, with no real benefits for yourself. She's only spoken to me about this yesterday and I'm hoping not to speak to her again about this and just stay as acquaintances. Those guys she's telling me about, maybe I do want to like them to an extent. However, every time it has come to the moment of having random sex, I have backed off. Deep down inside me I feel bad about it and I just can't go through with it. Though, largely, I would have to disagree with you. Because she didn't pick you for random sex. Hell no! The thought of having sex with someone who I'm not attracted to makes me cringe. Even when I am at my loneliness, I would never consider it. It's disgusting. Probably gender hypocrisy. Where girls are tainted if they want to sleep around, but guys get congratulated for it. It's okay when a guy does it and gross when a girl does for no real reason at all, even though if a guy does it there has to be a girl on the other side (who apparantally deserves no respect because of it.) Unless you hold men to the same standards. If that's the case, then your morals were just bothered by it because she gave away her virginity so lightly. I think I do hold guys to the same standard but to a lesser extent, since I'm dating girls. If I found out a girl I was dating has slept around a lot, that would be a huge turn off. If a guy did it, it would probably be of no relevance to me. She did give herself away so lightly... I forgot to mention that she's one of my close friend's relative. He would have given her a mouthful and many more if he knew about this. When she first spoke about her issues with guys, I saw a sensitivity in her. She wasn't getting attention from guys and that really hurt her. It was worrying because she was placing her self-worth in the hands of guys. Like so many other girls I know here, they don't get asked out much or at all. But I think it's how you deal with that that matters. Recently I had a friend, who use to feel this way like this girl, who started dating and is now in a relationship and I'm happy for her. She's a bubbly fun girl and had just been enjoying life with friends and family and now she's in a healthy relationship. Whereas the girl of this thread, it was like she just wanted attention from a guy, whether he wanted to date or have sex only. I'm disappointed in the way she dealt with her lack of interest from guys. I can't even look at her properly anymore. And she's wondering why guys twice her age are trying to pick her up. She walks up to guys in clubs and just gives them her phone number. What does she think some of those guys would from that? She knows. Bare in mind, I haven't said any of this to her and am not planning to. I know it is her own life and she makes her own decisions. Some may ask why does it matter so much to me? 'Cause she was my friend and I didn't want her to make a bad decision that could hurt her later on. But I'm moving on from this.
Enchanted Girl Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Listen, I understand why you are concerned, but there's one thing that disturbs me, since I tend to be more like she used to be . . . . putting too much of my self-esteem into how men think of me and if they'll like me . . . . losing my virginity when I was much older than most, not going to say what age, but I was into my twenties by the time it happened. I don't get asked out much and I have low self-esteem. In a way, the fact that she can be excited about sex and confident with men is GOOD. It means she's less likely to be taken advantage of or get into abusive situations. When I lost my virginity, I didn't go around bragging about it and didn't lose it to a stranger, but it did feel good and right and I don't regret it. Isn't it good that she feels the same? Excited by life and sex and men instead of miserable? It doesn't mean she's automatically going to sleep around from now on and she probably has a lot to learn still, but I think she's in a better place now than she was before. Many women refuse to date virgins or men with little sexual experience, few men would rule out a woman for that. Women are the harshest judges of other women's sexual behavior, so complain to them. The genders are completely different anyway, making the supposed gender hypocrisy issue a nonissue. Your last sentence made no sense, but I wouldn't argue with you that there are girls out there who don't date virgins or men with little sexual experience. XD But strangely, I will say that I've pretty much only dated men with very little sexual experience with one exception. My ex boyfriend was a virgin when we first got together and my current boyfriend had only had sex with one girl twice before he met me (and he was 28.) No, men don't rule out women with no sexual experience, but they do rule out women with lots of sexual experence often.
Author counterman Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 She is much more confident now and, you're right, it's better that she's happy rather than miserable. She had fun and it was exciting for her and I'm not gonna put her down or anything for it. Hopefully she doesn't sleep around. I agree she is in a better place now, to an extent. She could easily lose herself to this and forget about other things happening in her life. She does have a lot to learn and I smiled inside when she said, after her first experience, "I know exactly what I want now" and thought in my head (no you don't). She will make mistakes but she will learn from them. She won't learn it from me or anyone else telling her what she should or shouldn't do.
udolipixie Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Today I was speaking to one of my girl friends. I hadn't heard from her for several months, so I a bit taken aback when I heard a lot has happened. Going back to several months ago, she was sharing with me her concerns that no guys were interested in her and kept asking me to rate her, which I didn't. She was saying that no guys have ever asked her out and it really kept her down. Also, to add to that, she was physical with (a lot of touching and hugs) early on when I first met her, which I found a bit strange. Fast forward to when we went clubbing together with a bunch of friends. A random guy standard touching her up and she offer no resistance. It was obvious what this guy wanted but she encouraged him to continue. I don't exactly know what happened later but she ended up crying that night. That was when I last heard from her until today. She told me she went out clubbing a lot and I was happy that she was having fun. She then told me she lost her virginity to an exchange student, who was her friend. He has left the country already. She said it so matter-of-factly, and even started to brag that she got with a foreign guy. Bear in mind, I hadn't spoken to her for ages since then and only just asked "how have you been?". She then further said that she 'loves' him and that she was sure he felt the same way. I was disgusted by this and disappointed in her. Being around some guys, I know what they think and it seems that this guy who was going to leave anyway, just wanted to have sex, and it seems like she did too. She seemed so validated by it, and extremely proud to lose her virginity. She went on to further say that this guy filled every one of her boxes and that he was her perfect dream guy. She said that ever since high school she wondered what it would be like to lose her virginity (which she says all girls think about) and it was everything she imagined. I don't know but I just don't want to go near her anymore. However, when I think about it, if there was a chance that I would have a ONS with a really hot girl, I don't think I would refuse it. But, that thought always leaves me with an empty feeling inside. Why am I so disappointed her in? You're a guy that's why. She lost her virginity to a guy she wanted in a way she wanted. To you however you don't like the fact she waited and then gave her virginity to a guy whose character you don't like.
udolipixie Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Many women refuse to date virgins or men with little sexual experience, few men would rule out a woman for that. Women are the harshest judges of other women's sexual behavior, so complain to them. The genders are completely different anyway, making the supposed gender hypocrisy issue a nonissue. In other words because guys are biologically hornier and have a harder time getting sex. Odd me using the argument that I'm biologically weaker & it's harder for me to inflict damage to a guy unless I'm trained/have a weapon so the supposed gender hypocrisy issue of it being okay to hit a guy is a nonissue. Apparently it doesn't work that way. On that nonissue most guys say you don't get out of consequences for the same behavior (guy hits a girl/girl hits guy) because of your gender. Most say But this is a man's world & men do get the the long end of the sexual double standards. Thank goodness for multi orgasms. Seems like guys would rather hit a woman than recognize any sexual gender hypocrisy because the genders are different. Many women refuse to date virgins or men with little sexual experience, few men would rule out a woman for that. Many men refuse to date women they deem sluts. Few men would rule out virgins/girls with little sexual experience because that's what men prefer. Most guys unless they are a virgin/have little experience prefer a girl with a history shorter then theirs. Why are you bringing virgins into this EnchantedGirl was talking about women who sleep around held to different standards then men who sleep around. A logical sentence would be many women refuse to date men with a lot of sexual experience few men would rule a women out for that. Then again that logical sentence isn't believable. Women are the harshest judges of other women's sexual behavior, so complain to them. Men are the harshest judge when looking to relationships when looking for sex most are easy to please.
udolipixie Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 @EnchantedGirl In other words because guys are biologically hornier and have a harder time getting sex the gender hypocrisy issue is not an issue. Higher sex drive & it being harder excludes guys from being treated the way they act because they have a higher need and it's an accomplishment when they get sex (that just furthers the thinking sex is something done to a woman not with a woman). That biologically different & harder it being harder doesn't work for women in other cases.
rafallus Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) OP's female friend could go to the clubs and have sex 10 times a night with 10 different men she finds attractive... every night. OP might have to approach 50 women and be rejected 49 times to get sex once, and he may not find that willing one attractive.So "having more control" applies to those 10 men just as well as to that female. Unless they all happen to have streak of 49 rejections, which is due to be broken by this one specific female, which, for some inexplicable reason, isn't really plausible to me. Simpler explanation would be that some people just aren't very successful at finding mates, regardless of gender. OP is one, his female friend apparently not so much. Edited July 22, 2011 by rafallus
zengirl Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Dude: She has put you in the friend zone and is using you as one of her female friends to discuss relationship issues. She is not sexually attracted anymore. Perhaps you had a chance at the onset, but that window of opportunity is gone. You are now a friend that she can use to discuss her boy troubles. But Counterman said he wasn't attracted to her. . . so I don't think that's the part that bothers him (unless your theory is he's in denial?). It sounds like she already discussed her boy troubles with him in the past and they WERE already just friends. I think he means he doesn't even want to go near her as a person/friend (and I give him some credit for realizing he's probably letting some bias affect him, btw), which is a whole different thing.
bad username Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Something doesn't sit right about this post. She's either very crude and rather vulgar or you are exaggerating a little. I wouldn't want much to do with this girl either purely because she seems a bit off-kilter. Are you sure you didn't read too much into this, or she's not overcompensating? Virginity is a taboo for young people nowadays. I think there's such a big disconnect between how you perceived her and what you now read into what she says that it's bound to be jarring. Did you put her on a pedestal a little, maybe? If she has low self-confidence she might not have noticed you were interested/saw you as a friend. Maybe she's feeling the confidence to show an interest in you (has come down from the pedestal) and you're scared and in unfamiliar territory and are magnifying her flaws. What you attribute to the confidence of sexual experience is just as likely to be the frustration that you didn't show any interest. Honestly, if you can't treat her as a person and find out who she really is... it's your look-out.
Author counterman Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 I should make it clear that I was never interested or attracted to her. In fact, I'm pretty sure I made that clear to her, especially when she got really physical with me and showed interest. So, yes, we are friends. I have friends that talk to me about their relationships, their issues with guys and so on, guys and girls. What she described to be is what I presented to you in my post, the way it is. I am going to relent a little and say that my views were probably harsh and hard in regards to her. She is still learning and so am I and everyone else... I cannot judge her completely just on this one off experience. I am a friend of hers but a close one no longer, due to my moral beliefs.
bad username Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I should make it clear that I was never interested or attracted to her. In fact, I'm pretty sure I made that clear to her, especially when she got really physical with me and showed interest. So, yes, we are friends. I have friends that talk to me about their relationships, their issues with guys and so on, guys and girls. What she described to be is what I presented to you in my post, the way it is. I am going to relent a little and say that my views were probably harsh and hard in regards to her. She is still learning and so am I and everyone else... I cannot judge her completely just on this one off experience. I am a friend of hers but a close one no longer, due to my moral beliefs. That's fine, I just thought the behaviour of the girl seemed strange. Take everything I said with a pinch of salt.
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