kami823 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I and my wife have been married for 10 years and together for 15. We have a 6 year old daughter. About a year ago, the family had to relocate to another city due to my work and my wife has been unhappy with that move. We have had our share of arguments & rows since then. Since the last couple of weeks, i noticed that she doesnt let her celphone out of her grasp for even a minute. its constantly with her and she angles away from me when she reads or replies to a message so that i cant see whats on the screen. She works from home and is constantly on the phone from 7 am till midnight, and keeps the room locked when she's on the phone. I usually give her space and privacy, but the above behaviour got my antenna up and 3 days ago, i woke up in the middle of the night and managed to look into her phone without her knowing and found messages on the phone where she calls this colleague of hers by endearing names and professes her love for him. There are similar messages sent by him back to her. I couldnt believe what i saw and was in a state of shock. I woke up once again last night and checked her phone once again and there are even more messages in the same tenor. The other guy is married too, but without any children. I was always of the opinion that if something like this ever happened to me, my girlfriend/wife would be out of my life immediately and that i wouldnt look back. But i'm in two minds rigt now because of my daughter. My wife's behaviour is isgusting & despicable but i love my daughter and cant bear to be seperated from her. The laws in our country are weighted towards the mother and they normally give custody to the mother. What do you'll advice ?
PegNosePete Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 You have all the evidence you need to confront your wife. Tell her you know exactly what is going on. Don't tell her HOW you know, just tell her you KNOW and that there is no point in her lying. She will lie and lie and lie anyway so be ready for that. If she finds out that you went through her phone she might try to blame shift, cry invasion of privacy and all that rubbish - don't fall for it. SHE is the one who has acted inappropriately and disrespected you and your entire marriage. If you want your marriage to survive you need to break through that shield of lies and get her to be honest with you. Where you go from there, depends on how it goes. You need to decide if the marriage is over, or if you can reconcile with a cheater. If you want to work it out then you need to lay down the law: 1) She will commit 100% to the marriage and be 100% honest with you. She will answer any question you ask immediately without hesitation, deviation or omission. 2) She will never speak to, email, text or otherwise contact the OM again. She will call him up right now with you present and listening and tell him this. Then she will never contact him ever again. If she cries that she can't because she works with him then tell her she can find a new job or a new husband, her choice. 3) She has no privacy from now on. You will have all her passwords, emails, phone, bills etc. You need to rebuild trust in the long term but for now, you can't trust her. 4) You will go to marriage counselling. If she refuses these conditions (or accepts and then breaks them) then file for divorce immediately.
reboot Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 You "suspect" she's having an affair? The only person lying to you more than her is you. PegNosePete nailed it. Follow his advice to the letter. Or you could resign yourself to being a cuckold if that suits you better. I understand the whole kids/history/love your spouse/sadness/despair/etc, but your wife is banging another guy, that you should make you angry enough to do something about it. The only thing I would add to PNP's advice (should you choose to try to save the marriage) is EXPOSE the affair to anyone and everyone, her family, your family, OM's wife, their workplaces.... Affairs are like mushrooms, they die in the sunlight.
marqueemoon4 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 rest assured if she is she is NOT going to come clean. get a PI if need be and nail her.
PegNosePete Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Well, I would confront with what you have. You know what is going on, you've seen 100% evidence that she is having an affair. She told another man that she loves him. What more do you need, a smoking gun? If she is prepared to tell the truth when you tell her you KNOW what is going on, then there may be hope for saving the marriage. If she lies til she is blue in the face and tries to cover it up by deleting messages ("oh I just need to go to the toilet with my phone for a minute"??) then divorce.
Tech_E Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Pete is absolutely dead on. Confront here RIGHT NOW and only accept what he has laid out. Be ready, don't go into this without your courses of action well thought out. Personally I'd lawyer up first just in case. Words are just that WORDS. Show her that you are 100% willing to throw her a$$ out and there will be SWIFT and SEVERE consequences for her actions. Also make it 100% clear that you have every right to inform OM's wife and will do so if you see fit. Period. DO NOT sit back not for one single minute. Stand up and say HELL NO.
Mauschen Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Good resource for dealing with a cheating spouse: http://www.marriagebuilders.com. Do not beg, plead, cry, or get emotional (if you can help it) with your wife. She will be in a FOG and will LIE LIE LIE to you. My husband did. Don't ask because you already KNOW. Just state calmly, "I know what you are doing, I know you are being unfaithful, and it is not acceptable for me. I have packed your things and you can move out immediately (Have her bags packed). Otherwise, you can choose to stay here with no further contact with the other man - no phone calls, emails, texts, etc." I know other people may recommend against contacting the other man's wife, but it worked wonders for a friend of mine who did it. It made it really difficult for her husband to see his married lover because her husband would also not allow it. But it could also backfire if your wife's lover gets kicked out of his house. As for child custody, read the book Child Custody A to Z by Guy White. And make sure you have your daughter as much as possible (over 50% of the time). Since your wife is so busy with her boyfriend, she may actually not mind you having your daughter most of the time. Also - make sure you are the PRIMARY parent who takes her to doctor appointments, buys clothing, goes to school events, etc. If you are not doing these things now, start doing them and document. Very important.
KathyM Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I and my wife have been married for 10 years and together for 15. We have a 6 year old daughter. About a year ago, the family had to relocate to another city due to my work and my wife has been unhappy with that move. We have had our share of arguments & rows since then. Since the last couple of weeks, i noticed that she doesnt let her celphone out of her grasp for even a minute. its constantly with her and she angles away from me when she reads or replies to a message so that i cant see whats on the screen. She works from home and is constantly on the phone from 7 am till midnight, and keeps the room locked when she's on the phone. I usually give her space and privacy, but the above behaviour got my antenna up and 3 days ago, i woke up in the middle of the night and managed to look into her phone without her knowing and found messages on the phone where she calls this colleague of hers by endearing names and professes her love for him. There are similar messages sent by him back to her. I couldnt believe what i saw and was in a state of shock. I woke up once again last night and checked her phone once again and there are even more messages in the same tenor. The other guy is married too, but without any children. I was always of the opinion that if something like this ever happened to me, my girlfriend/wife would be out of my life immediately and that i wouldnt look back. But i'm in two minds rigt now because of my daughter. My wife's behaviour is isgusting & despicable but i love my daughter and cant bear to be seperated from her. The laws in our country are weighted towards the mother and they normally give custody to the mother. What do you'll advice ? I'd leave, if I were you. I would never put up with it. I know it's hard on your daughter, and you would be losing something important by not being able to live with your daughter in the same house, but self respect and trust are things you can't do without. You'll have to go into the category of weekend dad, I guess. I'm very sorry you were betrayed. You deserve better. Confront your wife about the affair, and then leave.
teerockness Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Regardless of some of the advice previously given by others, please think this through logically before taking any course of action. There is at least a 50% chance this will result in divorce; probably more. You may find yourself in a custody slug-fest which as the man, you will find yourself at a severe disadvantage. Do NOT leave your house or your child as it can be interpreted by her lawyer or a judge as abandonment. Likewise, do NOT confront her until you have legally obtained documented evidence of her infidelity that can (optionally) be used in a court of law or to obtain a settlement out of court. Think with your head and not your heart in this scenario, regardless of how difficult this may be.
Waffles Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I wouldn't recommend that you confront her until you have spoken with some divorce lawyers and checked out your options. Seems like a d*ck move for some, but why take the risk?
James_H Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I and my wife have been married for 10 years and together for 15. We have a 6 year old daughter. About a year ago, the family had to relocate to another city due to my work and my wife has been unhappy with that move. We have had our share of arguments & rows since then. Since the last couple of weeks, i noticed that she doesnt let her celphone out of her grasp for even a minute. its constantly with her and she angles away from me when she reads or replies to a message so that i cant see whats on the screen. She works from home and is constantly on the phone from 7 am till midnight, and keeps the room locked when she's on the phone. I usually give her space and privacy, but the above behaviour got my antenna up and 3 days ago, i woke up in the middle of the night and managed to look into her phone without her knowing and found messages on the phone where she calls this colleague of hers by endearing names and professes her love for him. There are similar messages sent by him back to her. I couldnt believe what i saw and was in a state of shock. I woke up once again last night and checked her phone once again and there are even more messages in the same tenor. The other guy is married too, but without any children. I was always of the opinion that if something like this ever happened to me, my girlfriend/wife would be out of my life immediately and that i wouldnt look back. But i'm in two minds rigt now because of my daughter. My wife's behaviour is isgusting & despicable but i love my daughter and cant bear to be seperated from her. The laws in our country are weighted towards the mother and they normally give custody to the mother. What do you'll advice ? I've been through something similar myself. My wife and I (now ex) were married almost 7 years, together nearly 9. I didn't really start having any suspicions until we were separated. Personally, I wouldn't have cared less at the time, but we were trying to reconcile and rebuild things when this was happening. Like yourself, it involved her cell phone. She would have "backrounds" of the OM on her phone, receive calls (mostly texts)...blah blah. I even answered her phone one morning before going to work so it didn't wake her up and it was him, texting to see if she was still awake! Facebook played an important factor also. Just from my experience, you probably should at least contact a lawyer with a few questions at the ready. Couldn't hurt IMO. I agree, she's more than likely going to keep lying about it unless she doesn't give a rats a$$ anymore! Best of luck to you... Edited July 22, 2011 by James_H
Author kami823 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 thank you for all the advice. i'm glad i asked, because its not something i want to talk about to my friends or family yet. I have now managed to get a record of the last months call records, emails & text messages from her phone. - There's about 40 calls to & fro between them each day - multiple emails where they talk about their love for each other (its nauseating) - a few text messages similar to the mails(all in the sent messages, none in the inbox) (i suspect she's deleted many of them) I think i now have enough proof of her infidelity. I am planning to follow the advice given here. - I will confront her. - I will tell her that i know that she is having an affair with her colleague. - I will also tell her that her infidelity is unacceptable to me - I will ask her for custody of our daughter and that she should leave the house (i'm sure she wont agree to this) (this is a gambit) - I will tell her that she can no longer share our bedroom - She has 2 weeks to move out of the house or i start telling her family & friends what she's done. I also tell the OM's wife - If she moves out without arguments, then i let her keep her self respect and we tell the world that we broke up because of mutual differences - I am willing to give her custody & child support if I have equal access to our daughter what do you'll think ?
PegNosePete Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Sounds like a good plan dude. But I would agree with the others, you would be wise to take professional legal advice before confronting. Especially if you've decided not to reconcile.
Tech_E Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Umm does he want to save his marriage or destroy it? Really? Seems to me his wife made that decision didn't she? You have a good plan there. Why the ___ should you leave? She's the one that can't stay faithful. Drop the bomb and expose this affair to the light of day!
James_H Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 It sounds like a good plan. However, I'd still give serious consideration to at least consulting with a lawyer and weigh your options. Whenever kids are involved, it's more complicated and I can't see her just saying, "here, you can have custody!" In the long run, it's going to be better if things can be evened out between the both of you.
Steadfast Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 The marriage is over. She destroyed it and is in the process of vaporizing the remaining shards. Any reasoning, understanding or falling for her crocodile tears is a step back. Control your anger, be civil. Keep your cool. When in doubt, do what is best for the kids and you. In that order. Your checklist looks like a lot of work. Two-weeks? Screw that. How about two hours? Just tell her to leave. Let her worry the details. Take my word for it, living with her when she knows you know is THE WORST. Don't. Word of advice: take it one thing at a time. Finances, living arrangements, etc...on down the list. You will tire quickly these days. Eat and rest. Fruit, veggies, juice. Let your mind and body rest by thinking forgiving thoughts. Don't talk to anyone about this, save your attorney, parents and closest, most trusted friends. You could have photo/video and the sworn testimony of Mother Teresa, and it wouldn't phase those who choose to side with her. Don't waste your time on those games. The truth always comes out. In this case, her walls will tumble when the OM turns on her. He will. Soon. Don't automatically assume fathers get the short end. Don't offer to pay CS! The courts will figure that depending on who they are with more and pay scale. The court wants joint custody; 50/50. Take a stand as the children's father and do whatever you can to dismiss from your mind her actions. She is in affair fog. Believe me; stay away from her! Stay away. See an attorney. Get her away from you. Do the work for you and your kids. This is a great place to share and get advice. One day at a time-
Author kami823 Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 Ok, so I confronted her last night, these were my questions A. why are you so distant from me these days B. why is there no intimacy from your side towar me any more C. is there anything you wanna tell me D. Are you being unfaithful to me E. Are you in love with someone else F. Are you in a relationship with OM Initially the response to all this was in questions / statements that she fired back at me. - I am not distant, you are distant - the intimacy is lacking from both sides - she has nothing to tell me, but if there is something I wanna tell her, I should go right out and tell her instead of playing riddles - at this point, she started getting all shifty eyed - next she flat out said that she is not being unfaithful - then she began asking me why I am asking her all these questions, do I not trust her, what gives me reason to believe that she is haing an affair etc etc and kept repeating those questions - I then asked her about OM by name and then she realised the game is up - then she started giving sarcastic answers that she is seeing him, and that it's been many months since they are doing so and that the whole world knows it etc etc, she was just trying to rile me up - I stayed calm and asked her if she wants me to call up his wife and alert her to this, she quickly started backtracking then. - she then started saying that this affair isn't what I think it is, that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill etc I told her that I do not wan the gory details - her constant theme was - how do you know about this, have you been spying on me, has 15 years of our relationship turned into this To cut a long story short... She finally agreed that she is having an affair. She wants custody of our daughter She is willing to give me visitation rights and will not deny me access She will move out of the house, she needs some time to sort out her work etc I told her that I can move out of the house and will continue to pay the bills until she finds herself a job which can pay the bills. I also told her that I will pay full child support I will pay her house rental, but only if she gives me access to our daughter She has moved out of our bedroom, she has returned the add on credit cards that I had given her as well as the ATM card for the joint bank account we hold (without me having to ask) It's been quite gut wrenching to keep a calm exterior, I want to just hug her, hold her and tell her that we should work this out, but another part of me tells me that she will just do this to me again and the second time will be even worse. Thanks for all your advice, I know some of you were telling me to consult a lawyer first, but I just couldn't wait. But the forum helped me in going about this in a calm logical manner and not being emotional about it.
Steadfast Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 She finally agreed that she is having an affair. She wants custody of our daughter (Fight this. Tell her you want full custody then 'settle' for joint. Don't roll over.) She is willing to give me visitation rights and will not deny me access (She can't. It isn't up to her; it is up to both of you. Screw this!! She can't dictate ANYTHING to you regarding your daughter! NOTHING.) She will move out of the house, she needs some time to sort out her work etc (Bullshyte. Tell her to move asap. Don't roll over.) I told her that I can move out of the house and will continue to pay the bills until she finds herself a job which can pay the bills. (DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME. DO NOT. REPEAT: DO NOT LEAVE!!) I also told her that I will pay full child support I will pay her house rental, but only if she gives me access to our daughter You MUST wake up and sense the reality of this situation. You have a legal right to the child; no reason to bargain. Do not pay anything the court does not ask you to pay until after the decree is final. Support the child. LET HER SUPPORT HERSELF. Response in bold. Talk to a lawyer ASAP. You are setting yourself up to get screwed royally. You must snap out of the 'wounded spouse' fog you're in and seek advise. Agree to nothing else. Tell her you're filing and will follow the advise of your attorney. If you don't, you will regret it. You have a daughter to worry about; not a cheating wife. She does not deserve this coddling. It isn't helping. It is hurting...yes, even hurting her. Get legal help now-
teerockness Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 It's "lawyer" - find one, now. She doesn't have to know.
KathyM Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Regardless of some of the advice previously given by others, please think this through logically before taking any course of action. There is at least a 50% chance this will result in divorce; probably more. You may find yourself in a custody slug-fest which as the man, you will find yourself at a severe disadvantage. Do NOT leave your house or your child as it can be interpreted by her lawyer or a judge as abandonment. Likewise, do NOT confront her until you have legally obtained documented evidence of her infidelity that can (optionally) be used in a court of law or to obtain a settlement out of court. Think with your head and not your heart in this scenario, regardless of how difficult this may be. So you're advocating staying with a cheating spouse and look the other way? This is the age of no fault divorce laws. Judges don't care who cheated on whom, or who actually moved out to the hotel first. Judges only care about the best interests of the child. An affair is not going to change the child custody arrangement. The judge will determine who is better equipped to take care of the child, and usually awards joint custody, unless one of the parents doesn't want custody or is totally unfit. Judges don't consider an affair as evidence of being unfit. They care about how well the child is being taken care of. They also don't care who moved to the hotel first. It's always about the best interests of the child, and is usually joint custody that is considered the best interests of the child. Some judges might determine that the daughter belongs with the mother and would be better off being primarily raised by the mother with visiting privileges being given to the father. But if you think you need all this evidence of infidelity, you are wrong. It doesn't mean a hill of beans to the judge, and won't determine the outcome of the child custody arrangements. Same thing with who moved out to the hotel first. Just a technicality that won't matter to the judge in the long term. The judge expects that one of the spouses will move out. Won't matter to the financial settlement either. Equal division of the assets is what reigns today, unless one parent has sole custody, in which case the custodial parent may have a somewhat larger share of the marital assets. So don't bother gathering evidence of the infidelity. The judge will not be interested, and will not use it as a determining factor in his decision. I don't know what county you live in, but in most states in the US, we have no fault divorce laws that prevent an affair from being a determining factor in the custody or financial settlement of a divorce case. Edited July 23, 2011 by KathyM
Steadfast Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 This is the age of no fault divorce laws. Judges don't care who cheated on whom Absolutely true. ...or who actually moved out to the hotel first Absolutely false. Not knowing anyone personally the court is forced to look at the situation in black and white. How can you be sure your child is being cared for if you aren't there? Truth is, the court usually hammers the fleeing spouse. OP: DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME. Make her leave. ASAFP or sooner. KathyM, run your opinion by a few judges and lawyers and report back here.
KathyM Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Absolutely true. Absolutely false. Not knowing anyone personally the court is forced to look at the situation in black and white. How can you be sure your child is being cared for if you aren't there? Truth is, the court usually hammers the fleeing spouse. OP: DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME. Make her leave. ASAFP or sooner. KathyM, run your opinion by a few judges and lawyers and report back here. Well, I have a degree in Paralegal Studies and worked for a law firm for 8 years that practiced family law, as well as other areas of law. I also have friends and relatives that went through the divorce process, so I do know something about the topic, but by all means consult with an attorney before doing anything. And divorce laws do vary from state to state, and from country to country. But generally, in no fault divorce cases, (and most states in the US are, I believe, no fault divorce law states) infidelity is not a consideration in the custody of the children, unless the infidelity can be proven to have impacted on the care of the children (i.e., the spouse goes off to carry on with her lover while leaving the kids home alone or with a babysitter a substantial amount of the time). It definately will not impact on the financial settlement. The judge is not interested in that at all, unless it can be proven that the affair has resulted in neglect or corruption of the children. As far as who leaves the home, it is my understanding that you cannot force your spouse out of the home, except by court order. If you decide to change the locks one day, that would not result in gaining permission from the court to stay in the home or to have custody of the children. The judge, in his temporary custody order, will allow the children to remain in the home, and whichever spouse he determines should be the primary caregiver for the children. It is not a matter of who decides to change the locks, or who tries to kick out whom, or who ends up in the hotel. The judge decides who is better equipped to take care of the child, based on who has been the primary caregiver in the past, and also based on gender issues. They generally award primary custody of girls to their mother, and older boys often go to the father. I don't believe that moving to a hotel for a couple of weeks until the temporary custody hearing can take place is going to affect the outcome of the judge's decision. He will look at who has been the primary caregiver in the past, and who is better equipped to be the primary caregiver in the future, but by all means consult an attorney about this. Generally, if both parents want custody of the child, joint custody is given.
FreeNow Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 That's true about no fault, infidelity, and custody. However, not completely true about leaving the home. The parent that stays in the home appear more as the primary care giver. Judges and magistrates seem to be a little lazy about that whole thing and the person that stays in the marital home, the one to which the children have grown accustomed, appears a little more as primary parent. Once one parent leaves the home, the parent that remains in the home with the children has more traction in the residential custody arena. On paper, it's not supposed to be like that, but in reality that's just the way it is. It's part of the status quo that courts consider heavily in custody disputes. A parent can create the status quo if they are determined enough. A father that leaves the home and leaves the children with the mother has a more difficult time presenting in court as the primary (residential) parent. It's kinda common sense. This is one of the reasons that mothers may attempt parental alienation and drag out the time in temporary custody Mine began waffling after a few months of me being primary parent and in the marital home because she realized she'd be on the hook for a pittance of child support (she was a selfish bitch). I used abandonment and adultery in my no fault state as we can list grounds. Additionally, I threw in every ground even remotely applicable. It "convinced" her to go along with the agreement for disillusion we had hammered out before instead of having those grounds explored in court. If it were me, I wouldn't have given a hoot what was said about me in court records because what was best for the children was my overriding motivation. Her motives were very self serving and it bit her in the behind. OP, if you want residential custody of the children, don't leave the home. Allow her fog to get the better of her and subtly encourage her to leave to explore things or whatever the hell you have to say to her (nothing in writing by you about it). Before and after she leaves keep a log/journal that puts you in a primary parental light. These things should give you an edge in many jurisdictions. Create a status quo where you and the children stay on the marital home while you take care of them the majority of time. Also OP, I in no way think you would, however, please don't engage in parental alienation. It really hurts the children in the long run and isn't necessary to gain the best edge in custody. You don't have to feed them a line of BS, just don't talk smack about their mother and you should be fine. They will figure her out on their own in time.
Recommended Posts