zengirl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 it's pretty funny that all of the women replying to this thread don't get the OP's point, lol. a) "i was too busy to call/text back" is a lie. b) "something came up i'm gonna have to cancel" is a lie. c) "i'm just going out drinking and dancing with the girls" is a lie. d) "he's just a friend there's nothing to worry about with him" is a lie. there are plenty more examples i'm sure others can provide, those are the first four that came to my mind. just because men often tolerate those lies from women doesn't mean that they are anything but lies. The OP said none of those things. (And those statements are not actually always lies. Sometimes I am going out drinking and dancing with the girls. Just like sometimes my BF is just going out drinking with the guys or needs his cave time.) Now if women lie to men about where they are or what they plan to do or whether or not they're going to sleep with their male friends, I think that's absolutely objectionable, but none of that was in the OP. He had some weird vague comment I still can't discern. And I love everything Mme. Chaucer just said.
sally4sara Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Some and the I do mean some women feel that a man should treat them like a princess with the utmost respect but they have the right to treat a man any way they want. To me both genders should be treated with respect but I bet some women would never tell their daughters never to lie to a man. Depends on their childhood experiences. Bet you lied to your mother about stuff all the time because she was terrifying. I know I lied to mine. She had to have it that way because she was abusive. If she wasn't so quick to dish out abuse I would have been able to be honest with her - get it? So if a woman grew up with a father similar to how our mothers were with us it might never enter her head to teach a girl child the importance of telling the truth to a man if she were going to go out of her way to teach the importance of honesty at all and be distinct as to which gender should get the truth. I find it kinda sick and pointless that anyone would try to teach a kid the importance of honesty while making a distinction about gender. How would that work anyway?
sally4sara Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 You're upset because he speaks the truth. Women rely on their emotions, not their head, when it comes to who they are attracted to. The idea that "good girls" go for "good guys" is the biggest lie in the book. In a thread about honesty, why get upset about anything honest? He is being dumb and you're worse for calling an obvious opinion The Truth. You're a bitter sheep. It wouldn't matter if a girl was "good" or "bad". None want you either way. Learn objective thought, compromise, and cooperation or get bred out of the gene pool.
Woggle Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Depends on their childhood experiences. Bet you lied to your mother about stuff all the time because she was terrifying. I know I lied to mine. She had to have it that way because she was abusive. If she wasn't so quick to dish out abuse I would have been able to be honest with her - get it? So if a woman grew up with a father similar to how our mothers were with us it might never enter her head to teach a girl child the importance of telling the truth to a man if she were going to go out of her way to teach the importance of honesty at all and be distinct as to which gender should get the truth. I find it kinda sick and pointless that anyone would try to teach a kid the importance of honesty while making a distinction about gender. How would that work anyway? True but I get told all the time to not let my childhood colr my view of the opposite sex so the other way should apply as well.
sally4sara Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 True but I get told all the time to not let my childhood colr my view of the opposite sex so the other way should apply as well. Since both of us had to work to get to the point of not letting our childhood color our view, it should stand to reason we will come across others at one stage or the other of that same journey. You're still getting there just perhaps a bit further than others. Don't look at their journey as a reason to stop your own. Help them. And in helping them you will help yourself.
Woggle Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Since both of us had to work to get to the point of not letting our childhood color our view, it should stand to reason we will come across others at one stage or the other of that same journey. You're still getting there just perhaps a bit further than others. Don't look at their journey as a reason to stop your own. Help them. And in helping them you will help yourself. I know this sounds hypocritical but from my experiences and witnessing others I have learned that trying to help a damaged woman will only get a man burnt.
sally4sara Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I know this sounds hypocritical but from my experiences and witnessing others I have learned that trying to help a damaged woman will only get a man burnt. Why must it be something a damaged woman will do and not just a damaged person? You know, like that MALE friend of yours that wanted to bring the married woman he is sneaking around with to your party knowing it would upset you and then crapped on your marriage and wife when you called him on it. He isn't a woman but he sure is damaged and that ended badly.
serial muse Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Some and the I do mean some women feel that a man should treat them like a princess with the utmost respect but they have the right to treat a man any way they want. To me both genders should be treated with respect but I bet some women would never tell their daughters never to lie to a man. Well, as I said in my first reply to the OP's post, which dasein conveniently ignored, if what the OP's mom was saying is that it's OK for women to lie to men or cheat on men, then, YES, that's a double standard that his mom (or aunt, I'm confused) has, and that's not OK. I really don't think there's any question about that. BUT. That's NOT what the OP said. He said something else rather cryptic and ALL I wanted was for him to explain what the heck that meant. Why is it no longer OK to question an OP for further information? This is getting ridiculous. If you put a provocative statement out there, I think you have to have tough enough skin to be willing to answer questions about it, as long as they're posed respectfully. Which they were. It wasn't until dasein came in with his anger that things went off the rails. I don't understand why that was necessary, the discussion was fine and there's no indication the OP had a problem with it. Dasein - lighten up.
Woggle Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Why must it be something a damaged woman will do and not just a damaged person? You know, like that MALE friend of yours that wanted to bring the married woman he is sneaking around with to your party knowing it would upset you and then crapped on your marriage and wife when you called him on it. He isn't a woman but he sure is damaged and that ended badly. True but gender does matter. Not saying that it should matter or that the differences are natural but society has us trained and very few people break out of that training. Men have learned well that you get bit when you pick damaged kittens.
sally4sara Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 True but gender does matter. Not saying that it should matter or that the differences are natural but society has us trained and very few people break out of that training. Men have learned well that you get bit when you pick damaged kittens. Gender shouldn't matter. Insisting gender matters is part of the whole mom automatically gets the kids deal that you always bitch about. Without it, father and mother would be interchangeable yet here you are buying into the whooplah insisting so much rests on gender........ And Wogs EVERYONE knows a hungry kitten will likely bite. Or are you now comparing women to kittens? Everyone knows a broken window won't keep out the rain. Everyone knows a dead car battery won't operate a car. But there isn't a thing under the sun that everyone knows anyone else will do.
StoneCold Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Man, Woman or Child... People lie... period....and for many (not all) it always seems worse when they are on the recieving end of it...and "different" when its convenient for them. Your aunt is just belly aching because she got a taste.
serial muse Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 OP - I'm trying to understand what you meant...are you saying that your mom cheated on your dad or something, so she was applying a double standard there by thinking that's OK? Is that what you meant? (on rereading the OP, I guess it was the mom and not the aunt that said "that's different")?
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 To me both genders should be treated with respect but I bet some women would never tell their daughters never to lie to a man. I believe that a good, conscious parent will teach their child that lying is wrong. Still, lots of kids will lie. Lots of them will grow up to be adults that lie. I bet every single person here on LS at this moment has lied. To be fair to everyone, societal standards make it difficult to be honest all the time. Lots of lies are told in the interest of preserving feelings. That's often considered "courtesy" and "good manners." Some girls have been raised to "reject" a guy with some kind of an excuse rather than simply telling him "no, thanks. I think you're unattractive," or whatever the harsh truth may be. There are a lot of complaints about this here on LS. I am not defending it, but I do believe that if all the "nice white lies" were done away with, there would be even MORE complaining. Lots of lies are told in the interests of perceived self-preservation. Sometimes that's valid, as in the examples of a child lying to an irrational, abusive parent to avoid a beating. Sometimes, it's bullshyte, as in a person lying about where they're going to avoid being challenged by their partner. And, lots of lies are just manifestations of evil.
zengirl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I believe that a good, conscious parent will teach their child that lying is wrong. Still, lots of kids will lie. Lots of them will grow up to be adults that lie. I bet every single person here on LS at this moment has lied. To be fair to everyone, societal standards make it difficult to be honest all the time. Lots of lies are told in the interest of preserving feelings. That's often considered "courtesy" and "good manners." Some girls have been raised to "reject" a guy with some kind of an excuse rather than simply telling him "no, thanks. I think you're unattractive," or whatever the harsh truth may be. There are a lot of complaints about this here on LS. I am not defending it, but I do believe that if all the "nice white lies" were done away with, there would be even MORE complaining. Lots of lies are told in the interests of perceived self-preservation. Sometimes that's valid, as in the examples of a child lying to an irrational, abusive parent to avoid a beating. Sometimes, it's bullshyte, as in a person lying about where they're going to avoid being challenged by their partner. And, lots of lies are just manifestations of evil. All perfectly said, Mme. Chaucer. I would also add lots of times people unintentionally lie to themselves and thus to others by extension. Happens constantly with people. So yes, there are varying kinds of lies too. Intentionally lying to someone for personal gain is very different from sugar-coating something to spare feelings or not realizing the truth yourself.
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Stop making things up. No "chip on my shoulder," not "angry," an definitely not getting into a flamewar with you, not worth my time. Keep trying though, it's funny. Haha. We only know you by your posts ... and they are always identical, no matter which persona you trot out here. Why do you keep referring to "flame wars" and "flame baiting"? You are the one who persistently posts the inflammatory, embittered, misogynistic, ignorant, whiny, angry posts. Then you try to shut down whomever reacts to what you write. Try posting something insightful, honest, open, for a change, (if it's possible) Meerkat, and see what a different reaction you receive.
serial muse Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Try posting something insightful, honest, open, for a change, (if it's possible) Meerkat, and see what a different reaction you receive. Ohhhhhh. (ten chars)
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