donnamaybe Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Exactly what he was. LOL. I later found out he had many others in addition to me, so it was totally laughable that he wanted me to be exclusive to him when he wasn't exclusive to anyone. I don't understand how someone could demand faithfulness when they aren't offering it. I guess it goes along with the many OPs that have come through these forums that claim to know that their MP hasn't had sex with their spouses since the A began. It must make them feel somewhat exclusive if the MP is only sleeping with them. I gave only that level of exclusivity to my ex but it was for my own protection, not his. Question for the faithful APs: would you keep up the exclusive sexual relationship with the MP if you know for a fact that they are still having sex with their spouse? And how could one possibly know that unless they bugged the WS' bedroom or were a fly in the corner? Because the already known liar says so? Um, okay.
Sharon1961 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 For me, I was faithful because I was waiting and so focused on the guy who was already in a "committed" relationship. Plus, I think it messes with your head and if you're that focused on the person you start to believe that what you have is love. You maximize that and minimize that the AP is getting into bed every night with someone else. Basically, you're living in a delusion or something unreal. Finally, I think it has to do with wanting to prove your love and that, really, you're a good girl and the affair isn't really who you are. JMO
sweetestdecline Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I was faithful because i loved him and didnt want to be involved with anyone else. it didnt even occur to me. Im monogomous and faithful in my relationships.
MissBee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I have been wondering, why is that - paradoxally - single APs are generally faithful to their married partner. I have noticed that most of the single APs, women or men, keep their MP as exclusive while MPs sleep next to their spouses every night. Talking about myself during the A, I had no desire to see other women. Of course there were nice and cute women that I would like but nothing more. I dated twice during the A but it ended quickly as I wasn't emotionally available and invested. The worse of all was while having sex I would paradoxally feel a lot of guilt for "cheating" on my MW - Then I was like WTF is wrong with me ? This feeling of belonging went on even when the A was over. I had no problem of meeting other women but it has been very hard to having any emotional bond with someone else. Why is that single APs are so attached emotionally and/or physically to their cheating MP ? Is their love more 'pure' ? I can definitely relate to the bolded. When I was the OW, I wasn't "faithful" to the guy. I figured it was foolish of me to pretend like I was in an exclusive relationship with him when it is clearly open on his end I saw other people and was intimate with another as well. However, like you said, although I was out and about and not at home texting or calling him while he lived his life....I was not emotionally available and open to have a full relationship with anyone as I was inlove with him. So yeaa...technically I wasn't faithful but I wasn't fully happy as the only reason I entertained these other people was almost as a buffer so I wouldn't feel foolish but he was my main guy and the only person I had feelings for. My desire for other men dwindled even more overtime and I got more frustrated as I began to want him to myself more and these other men were insignificant to me. He of course was possessive, jealous and unfair and expected me to behave like his exclusive gf when he wouldn't do the same It was a mess. The imbalance was ridiculous and obvious and as much as I cared for him and vice versa that whole situation was not conducive to a healthy relationship as out of the gate the playing field is not level.
MissBee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I was faithful because i loved him and didnt want to be involved with anyone else. it didnt even occur to me. Im monogomous and faithful in my relationships. As am I, hence, I expect and deserve the same. I need to be equally yoked, so to speak. I can't be monogamous and faithful and inlove with a man who is neither monogamous nor faithful towards me. 1/3 (the whole well he loves me too he just has a wife or gf) doesn't count for me. I need the whole shebang or it's a no go. When I was the OW though, it was enough, the fact that he loved me I felt that it covered a world of ills. How wrong....as the whole monogamy and faithful part loomed large and was the root of many if not ALL our disagreements, my insecurities, his and everything else. The love didn't do it. I now know that I need it ALL!
Author East7 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 I believe that the faithfulness is more a feeling than a sense of commitment. Either you stay faithful to someone because you *feel* it or because you thing it is right to stay faithful. I have never cheated on my exes except flirting in some circumstances which I don't consider cheating. Every time I was in love with a woman, no other woman would find grace in my eyes. That's why I have always thought, the MW who cheat their H, are not in love with them anymore, period ! Cheating is often an act of desperation, at least for women. I am not talking about MM who may have different reasons for cheating. I like the saying : Women give sex to have love and Men give love to have sex. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Another point I wanted to raise is that as much as single APs are often exclusive to their MPs as much the MP may be extremely possessive and jealous with their AP, sometimes more that they could ever be with their spouses.
Author East7 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 As for the possessiveness I wanted to add, MM and MW are not jealous for the same reasons : MM are very territorial: Don't touch my harem ! MW are more competitive: don't touch my lover, b*tch! LOL..
MissBee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 As for the possessiveness I wanted to add, MM and MW are not jealous for the same reasons : MM are very territorial: Don't touch my harem ! MW are more competitive: don't touch my lover, b*tch! LOL.. LOL....I can see that As far as the territorial thing, so true. One thing I had to be able to distinguish was that a man being possessive of me was not necessarily out of "love" but due to them being territorial *shrug* A guy friend of mine was explaining how he got involved with his gf at the time and how her ex was all jealous of him, as since they had broken up, she wasn't seeing anyone and although he was seeing others, once she took a liking to my friend he became possessive and upset with her. My guy friend commented that "Even if a man doesn't love a woman...just seeing her with someone else if you consider her as yours makes you mad....it's not fair but that's how it is". It makes sense in terms of your harem comment, I think it's that mentality that some men have. They will cheat and do everything with everyone, like another guy friend who I had to cut off because he disgusted me with his constant cheating although he had a gf , but he truly saw NOTHING wrong with what he was doing and insisted that if his gf did the same the relationship would be over. He claims he loves her, I doubt. I think she's a high order member in his harem It's like having a bunch of possessions, even if you don't use them and haven't seen that thing in years, IT'S YOURS, and you can feel very violated if someone else takes it, not because it is your favorite...but because it's yours and that's that.
Gentlegirl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I really get upset if anybody touches the teddy bear I got for a birthday gift about 30 years ago. He sits on a shelf and I rarely go near hime but woe betide anybody else who dares to! How childish am I? It's like having a bunch of possessions, even if you don't use them and haven't seen that thing in years, IT'S YOURS, and you can feel very violated if someone else takes it, not because it is your favorite...but because it's yours and that's that.
Gentlegirl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 He was very jelaous and territorial. He went to great lengths to keep me in his sights. If I started a new hobby or joined a new social, he would join too. I thought at the time it was because he enjoyed being with me. He later confessed at the end of the A that he had been insanely jealous of me. I was the free one and he couldn't bear to think I was going to meet another man. Of course I wasn't with him hovering over my every move, was I? Territorial for sure. Genltegirl
MissBee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I really get upset if anybody touches the teddy bear I got for a birthday gift about 30 years ago. He sits on a shelf and I rarely go near hime but woe betide anybody else who dares to! How childish am I? It's like having a bunch of possessions, even if you don't use them and haven't seen that thing in years, IT'S YOURS, and you can feel very violated if someone else takes it, not because it is your favorite...but because it's yours and that's that. A lot of us are like that! I'm like that about certain things too
MissBee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 He was very jelaous and territorial. He went to great lengths to keep me in his sights. If I started a new hobby or joined a new social, he would join too. I thought at the time it was because he enjoyed being with me. He later confessed at the end of the A that he had been insanely jealous of me. I was the free one and he couldn't bear to think I was going to meet another man. Of course I wasn't with him hovering over my every move, was I? Territorial for sure. Genltegirl That was mine too. I do think he is possessive by nature in general but I think it was amplified for the reasons you stated. He would always ask me these questions and interrogate me, sometimes blatantly or pretend it was a joke, about what I was doing, with whom, etc. At one point he would check up on when was the last time I had sex! He always thought I was doing something with someone else, not bothering to realize that while I may or may not have been, he ALWAYS is and I was expected to be "okay" with that arrangement....but dare I even have the mere appearance of speaking to another man and he would act so hurt and betrayed.
OWoman Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I was never a "faithful AP" - and there was never any expectation that I be such, since that was part of the conditions I outlined at the outset - but my H and I became an emotionally and sexually exclusive couple at a point in the R before he'd physically vacated the property both he and the BW inhabited (and no, I don't only know that from what "some lowdown cheating liar" told me before that old chestnut gets hauled out again). In fact, his exclusivity toward me predated mine toward him, I later discovered. I imagine that the MPs who want their OW / OM to be faithful to them and them alone are among that group of people - well represented on these forums - who view other people as their "property". I would never have an R with that kind of person, so I have never been subject to that kind of expectation or sense of entitlement. I would only consider ANY kind of R with someone who viewed me and my rights to independence, self-determination and agency in the same way that I do. Others clearly feel differently about it, and it's their right to make that choice if they wish.
Silly_Girl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 My guy NEVER asked me to stay away from other men. He didn't like some offers I got, but I neither hid them or flaunted them. I wasn't interested in those men irrespective of my relationship status. I did meet someone I took a bit of a shine to and my boyfriend had a choice of us being exclusive or not and he chose the former. Had he not he'd be a (lovely) memory now and not my boyfriend.
Waffles Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) As an OW: I never planned on being faithful. My MM had pretty messed up possession issues. Poor BW. As a BS: My husband's OW was supposedly faithful to him. According to both him and her. She was the love nut type though. Sweet girl. As a WS: My OM remained faithful to me from what he said. With over twenty years of friendship, I would say that he was a pretty honest guy, so I doubt that he lied to me. Can't be sure though. I think that he was using me as a replacement after his ex-wife's affair. So it makes sense. I know that affairs can stir up some pretty irrational emotions, no matter where you stand. That has a lot to do with it IMO. Edited July 21, 2011 by Waffles
denise_xo Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I believe that the faithfulness is more a feeling than a sense of commitment. Either you stay faithful to someone because you *feel* it or because you thing it is right to stay faithful. I have never cheated on my exes except flirting in some circumstances which I don't consider cheating. Every time I was in love with a woman, no other woman would find grace in my eyes. I agree with this. I think this feeling is inherent to the infatuation phase, whether it occurs in an affair situation or not.
Got it Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 While I didn't sleep with anyone else while I was an single OW, I did go out on dates, etc. Regardless of dMM saying that he was monogamous with me, he was still not free and single so sitting at home would have been foolish for me. As others have stated I wasn't emotionally available to others, so the dating was light and superficial. dMM may not have liked it, I didn't rub it in his face, but he knew it would have been inappropriate for him to try and express concern. He knew a very easy answer and decision to stop me from dating others. I do believe he was faithful to me based on comments from emails from BW and from what he said. But really I don't know with all certainty and don't care.
So Very Confused Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 This very topic has been on my mind a lot. When my MM and I met, I was going through a divorce so I wasn't officially single but I had moved out and wasn't seeing my H any more. I liked the idea of a MM because I thought he would be discreet and it was just going to be a casual thing anyway. When my divorce was final I assumed I would begin dating other men but the MM had a fit about it. We've had many discussions about it. I don't understand how he could expect me to be faithful while he is still married. I had finally decided I didn't want to be with someone who had double standards like that so I told him I was ready to move on with my life. He finally came to the conclusion that he doesn't mind if I date other men as long as I'm not having sex with them. (he claims he's not sleeping with his W - yeah right) The problem is, in my head I know this is ridiculous. I shouldn't be seeing a MM at all, let alone being faithful to one. But my heart only wants to be with him and I'm not at all interested in other guys. Maybe I just haven't met the right available man but I have a feeling I'm never going to as long as I'm emotionally connected to the MM. We spend every week night together and by the time he goes home for the weekend I'm too exhausted to seek out another guy so I don't think I'm ever going to be able to juggle both even if my heart would let me. I kind of wish he would have stuck to his guns about me being faithful to him so I'd have a really good reason to go NC and never see him again.
Silly_Girl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I kind of wish he would have stuck to his guns about me being faithful to him so I'd have a really good reason to go NC and never see him again. Heyyyy, come on SVC, that's a bit daft. If this isn't working for you, change it. Don't wait to be forced by another person. Make your own choices, your own decisions. If the relationship doesn't make you happy then something needs to change.
So Very Confused Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Heyyyy, come on SVC, that's a bit daft. If this isn't working for you, change it. Don't wait to be forced by another person. Make your own choices, your own decisions. If the relationship doesn't make you happy then something needs to change. I know it does sound crazy. In some ways the relationship does make me happy - for now. It also makes me feel guilty and jealous. I know I need to end it but there's a battle going on between my mind and my heart and my heart is winning. I think if I could get angry and stay that way, I'd have the motivation to get it over with. I know I'm not going to move on with my life while I'm emotionally attached to him but trying to get the willpower to walk away hasn't happened yet. The double standard was the one thing I could get angry about and now I don't have that.
Author East7 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 He finally came to the conclusion that he doesn't mind if I date other men as long as I'm not having sex with them. (he claims he's not sleeping with his W - yeah right) Oh really? Thank Godness, XMW never dared asking me that! The problem is, in my head I know this is ridiculous. I shouldn't be seeing a MM at all, let alone being faithful to one. But my heart only wants to be with him and I'm not at all interested in other guys. Maybe I just haven't met the right available man but I have a feeling I'm never going to as long as I'm emotionally connected to the MM. We spend every week night together and by the time he goes home for the weekend I'm too exhausted to seek out another guy so I don't think I'm ever going to be able to juggle both even if my heart would let me. I kind of wish he would have stuck to his guns about me being faithful to him so I'd have a really good reason to go NC and never see him again. The thing is, - this applies to me as well, and I need to be very humble on this point - whether the A is going on, or you are in post-A stage, as long as there is any kind of contact, the 'flame is still burning' and you will NOT be emotionally available for someone else. There is a mourning stage even when you keep strict NC, let alone if keep talking. I have noticed that with my MW. The fact to keep LC, rekindles the feelings even when you think you are done. I also think that when you will find the right person (i think the same about myself) you will get over MM.
Silly_Girl Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I know it does sound crazy. In some ways the relationship does make me happy - for now. It also makes me feel guilty and jealous. I know I need to end it but there's a battle going on between my mind and my heart and my heart is winning. I think if I could get angry and stay that way, I'd have the motivation to get it over with. I know I'm not going to move on with my life while I'm emotionally attached to him but trying to get the willpower to walk away hasn't happened yet. The double standard was the one thing I could get angry about and now I don't have that. I understand, getting an 'eff you' attitude is so very useful at times! It may well come eventually Or maybe you'll just a bit angry with yourself.... that can work too
So Very Confused Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 The thing is, - this applies to me as well, and I need to be very humble on this point - whether the A is going on, or you are in post-A stage, as long as there is any kind of contact, the 'flame is still burning' and you will NOT be emotionally available for someone else. There is a mourning stage even when you keep strict NC, let alone if keep talking. I have noticed that with my MW. The fact to keep LC, rekindles the feelings even when you think you are done. I also think that when you will find the right person (i think the same about myself) you will get over MM. That's the vicious cycle I'm in. As long as I'm with the MM I don't want to be with anyone else. If I did meet the right available person, I doubt I'd spend much time missing the MM.
So Very Confused Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I understand, getting an 'eff you' attitude is so very useful at times! It may well come eventually Or maybe you'll just a bit angry with yourself.... that can work too That's a very good point. I'll have to do some thinking about why I'm not angry with myself for putting up with this.
fooled once Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Challenge is a powerful turn on, but not in my case. I never tried to win her over her H. I wanted her to leave on her own decision. East - the bolded - that is what so many AP want; yet they listen to the cheater say he/she wants the betrayed spouse to kick them out or find out and toss them so that they can claim innocence or be the "good one". Absolutely ridiculous! Most don't leave; and of those that leave, I would guess only half leave because they want to. I would guess the other half leave because the OW finally throws down an ultimateum. East, Does anybody know if this feeling will ever fade? I do hope it will as it makes the rebuilding of my life post A rather difficult. Guess it's part of the price we pay for the A. Cheers, Gentlegirl Yes it fades. When you finally truly let go - let go of the hope and dreaming of "one day", you will find that you are truly open to allowing someone else in. Unfortunately, so many live in a 'waiting' mode, wondering if the MM will seek them out and wanting the marriage to end so the MM will come find them. They don't truly let go so they can't be truly open to anyone else. Its not part of the price you pay for an affair if YOU choose not to allow it. That is what is so hard for me to understand; the mourning and grieving that goes on and on and on. When are you (general you) going to stop with the standing trapped in the past and not move forward? I get grieving for the end of a relationship - if a person doesn't grieve then either it meant nothing to them or they already grieved the end before it truly came. But to sit and be so depressed months and months after it ends? To me, that is because the person who is grieving is living in the past and waiting and waiting for 'maybe one day'. I didn't date others when I was with the MM I was with. Why would I? He was separated and living alone, moving towards a divorce. Why would I date anyone else? When he moved back to the marital home after a year of being separated, I did date a few others several months after he returned home. He was not happy about it, but how could he tell me not to? As for the whole "owning crap"... please. Most people in committed relationships don't expect their partner to go tramping about. That is why they are in a committed relationship and has NOTHING to do with owning anyone. It is called monogamy and being exclusive. Why would anyone who claims to love another person want to go date someone else? I get why someone who enjoys being with various men for sex not wanting to be tied down; they enjoy the variety, the lack of commitment, the lack of intimacy, etc. they don't want to be with just one person, they could be commitment phobic or just not have a good track record with fidelity. But just because those of us who enjoy the 1-1 with a partner doesn't mean we believe we "own" that person or equate it to owning a dog. That's just silly.
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