My BW wants to meet my ex-OW

[spice4life]

Your wife had an EA affair that she let develop into a full blown physical affair. You had an “exit” EA that you did not let develop into a physical affair; you only had this exit EA after learning of her affair, at a time when you were very vulnerable, hurt and needed comfort because of what she did. Clearly she was the instigator and what she did was much worse, yet somehow she has you believing that what you did was equally bad and that you are now even.

 

Your EA affair was a direct and understandable response to her full blown affair that you did not let develop into a physical affair. You got the comfort and emotional support that you only needed because of her actions. I am happy that you are trying to work it out with your wife, but do not make believe that you were a bad person in this situation. You were just human and trying to deal with a horrible situation that was thrust upon you.

 

As for your wife meeting your Ex-OW, that is just furthering the con that you were equally in the wrong.

 

At least he is forthright and honest though. Two wrongs do not make a right as the sayng goes, but he caught himself before it got too deep. That is to be commended! If he can stay honest and not let her manipulate him into submission then he has a chance for the best possible outcome, whatever that may be. All he has to do is call his wife on it if she tries to use it to control and make him feel badly. He appears to be strong enough to do it.

[MissBee]

Situation is below.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=277921

 

I had an EA with a coworker that lasted a few months and only recently ended. This happened a few years after my own wife's affair which I didn't handle very well. We were incredibly immature when it comes to relationships, and a physical separation from my wife has made this more apparent to both of us. Basically, we both behaved like giant tits, and neither of us want to behave like giant tits anymore.

 

So, as part of the reconciliation process with my wife, she would like to set up a lunch date with my ex-OW. Just to hear her side of the story and get some closure. Ex-OW is perfectly fine with it. Neither of them are violent or angry people so that it isn't exactly what I'm worried about.

 

Now, I never got to meet my wife's ex-OM so I don't have much experience in this area. For anyone who have been in similar positions to either my wife, ex-OW or both, what issues do think they might raise? I want to be able to plan ahead on particular subjects, and talk to my wife about them afterwards.

 

I'm especially curious as to what my ex-OW might say.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what kind of planning ahead you'd like to do...but if you agree to this, then the truth is you have to prepare for anything, rehashing, more anger and hurt and most of all you have to prepare to be truthful.

 

You should ask your wife what exactly she wants to know, which will give you an idea, but you still can't control the conversation.

 

I don't know what your ex OW might say...if it's years later and if she's over you it may not be much or may come from a more fair-minded point of view. I totally understand your concerns, that whole thing must be daunting, but what it seems to be is that you want to be in control and in the know of what's gonna happen, what's she gonna say, so on and so forth and in the scenario....you simply can't. You have to expect the good, bad, ugly and indifferent to come out and then only after their convo can you do anything, but before it, you can't really do much.

[MissBee]

I have to ask you why does what issues are raised matters. If you are on board with building a new marriage, then you should have no issues with her need for HER form of closure. You made the decision not to met with the OM in your situation. She needs something different and should do what SHE needs. You don't get to plan ahead for her reactions, responses or emotions...only your own. Is there something that OW might say you haven't been completely up front with your wife about?

 

I agree.

 

That's how it goes. When certain lines are crossed...all hell breaks loose. When you breach someone's trust then you are often subject to all kinds of things to win it back, which is why a lot of times it's best to just move on because it's not fixable OR for some, what they have to go through to fix it is not worth it.

 

If you decide to work on a marriage post-affair, I imagine that you're in for a shyt storm of drama, of demands (some fair, some unfair but most are guaranteed uncomfortable), esp if you're the one who breached the trust. It can stay stuck in a state of punishment and constant rehashing or it can be like that for a while (which quite frankly needs to be expected), then you move forward, OR you realize you can never get over it and go your separate ways.

 

But it's a hard position and one that requires humility and you cannot be in control of what's going to happen, what this person should feel, how they should act etc. Everything has a price and consequences and for scenarios like this, this is one.

[Try]

At least he is forthright and honest though. Two wrongs do not make a right as the sayng goes, but he caught himself before it got too deep. That is to be commended! If he can stay honest and not let her manipulate him into submission then he has a chance for the best possible outcome, whatever that may be. All he has to do is call his wife on it if she tries to use it to control and make him feel badly. He appears to be strong enough to do it.

He may be strong enough to call her on it, but he does not appear to even know that he should as she seems to be successfully "manipulate him into submission" on this.

[Spark1111]

Meeeooooooowwwwww Glinda. I've never avoided a genuine conflict in my life. My xMMs W talked to me after every dday. She had my home number and my cell number and I told her to call me whenever she wanted. The only times she did were after dday. I would discourage a lunch date. What's that all about? Public place so no one can get hurt? Never mind. To each their own I guess. I would think a call would do it but whatever.

 

Someone down the line said the BS had the right to talk to the OW. No she doesn't. If the OW wants to talk to her thats fine but neither have any right to talk to the other.

 

OP you do sound like you're getting it together but this niggles. I also think she's testing and you might want to think about how she'll feel if a stranger starts answering questions. When I had my talks with her I told her not to ask anything she didn't want the truth for. She asked a few very pointed questions and I answered. He had answered everything truthfully but it was very different hearing things from me.

 

Well, SB, you very evolved in that you owned your feelings and answered truthfully.

 

My experience? Not only in my own personal sitch but IRL, rare.....very, very rare to not get dodged and weaved and avoided and disrepected.....again.

 

Many a MM count on it I believe; the OW still protects him even after she has been thrown under the bus.

 

Why?

 

I could never figure it out.

[Spark1111]

He may be strong enough to call her on it, but he does not appear to even know that he should as she seems to be successfully "manipulate him into submission" on this.

 

I'm sorry you see it this way.

 

If you are trying to rebuild a marriage after infidelity, you do whatever it takes you to heal, with hopefully, the full support of the spouse who betrayed you.

 

Some want to know every detail down to sexual positions; others do not. Some need to speak or meet with the OW/OM; others do not.

[NoIDidn't]

Too late to back out now.

 

Let them meet and the cards fall where they may. Trying to talk her out of it now is going to blow up in your face.

 

Just make sure that you told her everything that you did and said and remember doing and saying, because some things the OW says are going to throw her for a loop and land you back in square one.

 

OWs love to twist the knife in the W when they meet them. They love to tell them how much they are certain that the husband loved them. They tell them the lies told or the times that the husband lied to sneak out with them. And they tell them the things that the husband may have said about them, with a twist.

 

Unless you have an especially mature ex-OW, I would prepare my W by telling her the entire truth, not the one that makes me look good.

 

I spoke with the OW and she attempted to allude to things said about me and not knowing my side of my marriage. That was cut off immediately as I let her know that my marriage was none of her concern, regardless of what my husband may have led her to believe. How we were going to reconcile and if we were going to reconcile was not what I called her about. I called her only to know if contact continued and told her I would appreciate if she only addressed that because that answer would end our call. She answered. I thanked her. The call ended.

 

Maybe suggest to your W to keep the lunch to under 45 minutes. Long enough to talk and answer the basic questions she likely has for the OW.

[Silly_Girl]

Your wife had an EA affair that she let develop into a full blown physical affair. You had an “exit” EA that you did not let develop into a physical affair; you only had this exit EA after learning of her affair, at a time when you were very vulnerable, hurt and needed comfort because of what she did. Clearly she was the instigator and what she did was much worse, yet somehow she has you believing that what you did was equally bad and that you are now even.

 

Your EA affair was a direct and understandable response to her full blown affair that you did not let develop into a physical affair. You got the comfort and emotional support that you only needed because of her actions. I am happy that you are trying to work it out with your wife, but do not make believe that you were a bad person in this situation. You were just human and trying to deal with a horrible situation that was thrust upon you.

 

As for your wife meeting your Ex-OW, that is just furthering the con that you were equally in the wrong.

 

I had had thoughts in the background, along similar lines, but yes, I agree with this. I see no equality here.

[Silly_Girl]

OWs love to twist the knife in the W when they meet them. They love to tell them how much they are certain that the husband loved them. They tell them the lies told or the times that the husband lied to sneak out with them. And they tell them the things that the husband may have said about them, with a twist.

 

Is this projection based on you and the OW? I wouldn't be the least bit interested in lying to the BW, and once my existence was made known to her (by my bf) and he no longer had to make arrangements for his absence, neither was he.

 

There's a lot of different outcomes to the same situation Vertigo, one size does NOT fit all.

[LilyBart]

Well, SB, you very evolved in that you owned your feelings and answered truthfully.

 

My experience? Not only in my own personal sitch but IRL, rare.....very, very rare to not get dodged and weaved and avoided and disrepected.....again.

 

Many a MM count on it I believe; the OW still protects him even after she has been thrown under the bus.

 

Why?

 

I could never figure it out.

 

I'll tell you why.

 

Because what happened between the two of them, the relationship they had, the love they shared (at least during the A) is none of your damn business.

 

Just like the way people like to point out the AP doesn't REALLY know what goes on in the M....the BW isn't ever going to know what REALLY went on in the A. *shrug*

[donnamaybe]

I completely disagree with the poster who says the BS has no right to talk to the OW. Are we back in the middle ages now when a man gets to tell a woman when to speak and what to say and who she is allowed to talk to? She has the right to do whatever she damn well pleases. As such, I would certainly not try to stop her as that will only serve to make her suspicious. Good luck!

[Loni]

I sure hope you have told your wife the ENTIRE truth. I always told my then MM that if asked outright I would not lie. When his wife busted us she asked me questions and I answered them truthfully. The nature of the questions left no doubt as to the validity of my information because they were date and situation specific. It was obvious from her reaction that this was the first time she was hearing all of this. It was also obvious that there could be no doubt that I was not lying.

 

OW are not shrinking violets and contrary to popular belief they are not scared of wives. You need to think very carefully about what you may have confided in your affair partner over the course of your affair. You may both start out with deciding to tell the same "story" but let your wife get uppity and your XOW might decide to blow.

[Try]

I'm sorry you see it this way.

 

If you are trying to rebuild a marriage after infidelity, you do whatever it takes you to heal, with hopefully, the full support of the spouse who betrayed you.

 

Some want to know every detail down to sexual positions; others do not. Some need to speak or meet with the OW/OM; others do not.

She was the one that betrayed him not the other way around. She slept with someone else, he did not. The only reason that he sought the emotional support from the OW is because he could not get it from his wife since she was the cause of the crisis in their marriage. Frankly, I do not think that he did anything wrong. An EA would be wrong in the absence of such circumstances, but in this case he had every right as someone hurting to seek comfort and support from where he could get it; clearly he could not get it from his wife in this instance.

 

She has no right to talk to the OW since she was not wronged and has no reason to "heal". The wife cheated and her husband needed emotional support that the wife was not there to give him. End of story.

[donnamaybe]

I think the OP's main concern is rebuilding his M, not asserting his "rights" based on who did what to whom.

[Try]

I think the OP's main concern is rebuilding his M, not asserting his "rights" based on who did what to whom.

I agree that "the OP's main concern is rebuilding his M", but the wife wanting to talk to the OW shows that she does not have the same main concern. I believe that she is only looking for more ammo so that she can continue to push the con on him. This false OW thing is just letting her off the hook from really taking the full blame.

 

If she really felt remorse, she would tell him that she was sorry that her cheating caused him such pain that he needed to get emotional support from another woman. She should then tell him that he had no reason to be sorry for his EA and that she was fully to blame for pushing him into it with her cheating. If he does not get this from her, it will fester to later bite them because he will eventually not buy the con. Putting a marriage back together based on a false premise makes for a weak marriage that will not last.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Try
Typo

[donnamaybe]

It is for the OP to decide whether to try to fix his M. If he wants that to happen, regardless of who did what, they both need to give the other what they need to do so. Now if the OP wanted to meet the OM, that should also be arranged.

[Try]

It is for the OP to decide whether to try to fix his M. If he wants that to happen, regardless of who did what, they both need to give the other what they need to do so. Now if the OP wanted to meet the OM, that should also be arranged.

You cannot fix a M long term based on a false premise. Now is the time to fix it once and for all. That means real truth. That means that the one that really cheated needs to take full responsibility and show full remorse. Yes, he wants to save his M so he will let her off the hook for now, but it ate at him before and it will eat at him again until she truly takes full responsibility.

 

Look, I want this to work out for them too. I just want it to be real so that it will have a real chance to last.

[Spark1111]

You cannot fix a M long term based on a false premise. Now is the time to fix it once and for all. That means real truth. That means that the one that really cheated needs to take full responsibility and show full remorse. Yes, he wants to save his M so he will let her off the hook for now, but it ate at him before and it will eat at him again until she truly takes full responsibility.

 

Look, I want this to work out for them too. I just want it to be real so that it will have a real chance to last.

 

This is like trying to quantify pain and awfully sophmoric IMHO. It's like saying lap dances with a stripper is less painful than a drunken ONS; not as horrible as a long=term affair, but less than an EA. It all hurts like hell. Period.

 

And whatever it takes to heal, is what should be done, hopefully with the full support of your spouse.

[Spark1111]

I'll tell you why.

 

Because what happened between the two of them, the relationship they had, the love they shared (at least during the A) is none of your damn business.

 

Just like the way people like to point out the AP doesn't REALLY know what goes on in the M....the BW isn't ever going to know what REALLY went on in the A. *shrug*

 

Would totally agree with this, if he didn't come begging and sobbing for me to take him back. Would totally agree with this if he left to go live with her as I encouraged him to do.

 

But, if he wanted to reconcile with me, I felt I had a right to know what the hell happened during almost two years of my life.

 

I deserved to know why the hell he did not tell me the truth about his feelings for another. I would have let him go in a heartbeat, despite all the lies he told her to the contrary.

 

She NEEDED to believe all those lies to the contrary; there for the paycheck; no hot sex (ha!) no sex(hahahahaha!) and whatever else he through into the mix.

 

Most amazing thing to me? I opened the door and she had not ONE QUESTION for me. Amazing, right? Two years of her life, devastating end to an affair when I know she believed had a future with him, and it is all okay with her?

 

Are you kidding? She should have been smashing plates on his head, IMO.

 

He threw her under the bus, under the guise of "staying for the kids" and NOT ONE QUESTION FOR ME?

 

Tell me you loved him. Tell me you were sorry you hurt me. Tell me something, fercryin'outloud where you honestly owned your feelings and your relationship and I could've respected her!

 

Nah..conflict-avoidant coward hoping for his eventual return to her if she shut up and always played nice. Big mistake.

 

SB...is a rare OW and i stand by my post.

[Try]

This is like trying to quantify pain and awfully sophmoric IMHO. It's like saying lap dances with a stripper is less painful than a drunken ONS; not as horrible as a long=term affair, but less than an EA. It all hurts like hell. Period.

 

And whatever it takes to heal, is what should be done, hopefully with the full support of your spouse.

You are missing the point. His EA would not have happened at all if she did not cheat on him. He only needed the emotional support in direct response to her actions. She had sex with someone else. He did not. He could not turn to his wife for this emotional support since she was the cause. It was only human that he needed to get this emotional support from someone else. He did nothing wrong.

 

Also, if someone stabs you in the heart with a knife and you push them away, would it make any sense for the police to arrest both of you and charge you both with the same crime of assault? Under the law, pushing another person is considered assault, but the law would look at the circumstances involved and not charge you. You should consider the circumstance of the EA and do the same.

[donnamaybe]

Why are we discussing what someone else thinks the OP needs for HIS closure? Isn't that for him to decide?

[Try]

Why are we discussing what someone else thinks the OP needs for HIS closure? Isn't that for him to decide?

We are discussing it because he posted on this forum asking for advice. It is totally up to him to decide if he wants to follow my advice.

[LilyBart]

Would totally agree with this, if he didn't come begging and sobbing for me to take him back. Would totally agree with this if he left to go live with her as I encouraged him to do.

 

Oh right - you had one of those who came crawling back begging for your forgiveness.....

 

But, if he wanted to reconcile with me, I felt I had a right to know what the hell happened during almost two years of my life.

 

Well you did get a "version of the truth" from your H, didn't you? And quite frankly, isn't what happened in your M more important than what happened in the A?

 

I deserved to know why the hell he did not tell me the truth about his feelings for another. I would have let him go in a heartbeat, despite all the lies he told her to the contrary.

 

And you thought you were going to get this answer from HER? Why? By your own admission, it's your WH's "truth about his feelings" you deserved to know.....so why ask HER?

 

She NEEDED to believe all those lies to the contrary; there for the paycheck; no hot sex (ha!) no sex(hahahahaha!) and whatever else he through into the mix.

 

Most amazing thing to me? I opened the door and she had not ONE QUESTION for me. Amazing, right? Two years of her life, devastating end to an affair when I know she believed had a future with him, and it is all okay with her?

 

Are you kidding? She should have been smashing plates on his head, IMO.

 

He threw her under the bus, under the guise of "staying for the kids" and NOT ONE QUESTION FOR ME?

 

Tell me you loved him. Tell me you were sorry you hurt me. Tell me something, fercryin'outloud where you honestly owned your feelings and your relationship and I could've respected her!

 

This is what I find funny.

 

It's funny how you're SO QUICK to point out how easily you would have gotten rid of your WH had he "left to go live with her" and yet you can't accept that this is what she (the OW) chose to do.

 

Why is it so "amazing" that she didn't have any questions for you? She may have loved him but he went groveling back to you. At that point why would she want him back?

 

And I'm definitely looking a this from (my) OW perspective - but if you didn't matter to her during the A, why do you think you would matter to her afterwards?

 

Nah..conflict-avoidant coward hoping for his eventual return to her if she shut up and always played nice. Big mistake.

 

SB...is a rare OW and i stand by my post.

 

I'm sure this is what you (and probably a lot of BWs) would like to think but it's possible that your OW realized what a p*ssy her boyfriend was and decided you could keep him. And since you took your groveling H back it all worked out for the best, didn't it?

[MissBee]

Well you did get a "version of the truth" from your H, didn't you? And quite frankly, isn't what happened in your M more important than what happened in the A?

 

The A is what happened in the marriage....

 

That really is the point. An affair infringes upon a marriage and infringes upon a prior arrangement and contract so it makes sense for a BS to want to know about the affair that took away from their marriage. I don't know if I would speak to the OW necessarily, but if I wanted to do so, then by all means, I should be able to. Once you have an affair then the rules of the game are a lot less fair. There is his side, her side and the truth and if a BS wants to hear from the OW/OM then they should be able to. If your partner has been lying to you, then at this point you are not inclined to readily believe "their version" of the story. The OW/OM can lie too...but you can just put everything out there once and for all and then figure out the truth from all the mess.

 

Affairs don't get the same rights as other relationships. Fair or unfair, that's the reality. Some people try to say otherwise but as it often plays out...it doesn't. If my husband decides it's none of my business what happened in the affair then he can get to stepping. The OW can decide that of course and I don't think she owes me anything but her presence infringed upon my life....my presence in MY marriage, established before her, did not infringe upon her relationship/affair.

 

Bottom line: the affair will ALWAYS be the BS's business (regardless of if one speaks to the OW/OM or not ) and the marriage will always be none of the OW/OM's business. One overlap and infringes on something preexisting, pretty much like trespassing...the other doesn't.

 

I'm sure this is what you (and probably a lot of BWs) would like to think but it's possible that your OW realized what a p*ssy her boyfriend was and decided you could keep him. And since you took your groveling H back it all worked out for the best, didn't it?

 

Right....that is very unlikely. And I am not a BW...but have been an OW and that sounds absurd. It is POSSIBLE but highly improbable that that was the case. After dday and this man throwing you under the bus you "decide" his wife can "keep him"...lmao funny. You didn't decide anything...you were forced into that position.

 

I do agree with the p*ssy sentiment though. Most MM seem to be just that! Since more often than not they do run back to wifey groveling and since the lot of them can't seem to work up the temerity to actually leave their marriage and commit to the OW, if they supposedly truly love her and want her only. Boo hoo my dog, boo hoo my pet hamster, boo hoo my kids who I'm still affecting, boo hoo my finances, boo hoo I can't divorce like 50% of the population, boo hoo I need my OW to hold my hand and bear with me as I, the most sensitive and caring man in the world navigate this situation for 100 years, boo hoo I have to wait until my wife finds out to default choose the OW....yes big p*ssies indeed. I agree.

 

The groveling MM didn't become a p*ssy at that moment on Dday....he was always one...which is the whole conflict-avoidant aspect. If he weren't from day one then he would have had the balls to do the thing right from jump or ASAP. But since he didn't...and allowed it to carry on to the point of some dramatic dday that he didn't choose.... BIG P Award!

Edited July 21, 2011 by MissBee

[LilyBart]

The A is what happened in the marriage....

 

The A is a symptom of something wrong in the M. People can deny this all they want but that's the truth.

 

Serial cheaters aside, most happily married people WILL NOT jeopardize their marriage like that. The A obviously fulfills the cheating spouse in a way the M isn't. Like you said, fair or unfair, that's the reality.

 

Who knows why? There could be a million different reasons. But for the BS who wants to find out - the answer lies in their CS, not the OW/OM.

 

That really is the point. An affair infringes upon a marriage and infringes upon a prior arrangement and contract so it makes sense for a BS to want to know about the affair that took away from their marriage.

 

It's not the A "taking away" anything from the M but what was "missing from" the M that allowed the A to flourish. Once again, the answer lies in the CS.

 

I don't know if I would speak to the OW necessarily, but if I wanted to do so, then by all means, I should be able to. Once you have an affair then the rules of the game are a lot less fair. There is his side, her side and the truth and if a BS wants to hear from the OW/OM then they should be able to. If your partner has been lying to you, then at this point you are not inclined to readily believe "their version" of the story. The OW/OM can lie too...but you can just put everything out there once and for all and then figure out the truth from all the mess.

 

I agree that the BS should be able to speak with the OW/OM if s/he wants to. Except the OW/OM is under no obligation to do so. *shrug*

 

Affairs don't get the same rights as other relationships. Fair or unfair, that's the reality. Some people try to say otherwise but as it often plays out...it doesn't. If my husband decides it's none of my business what happened in the affair then he can get to stepping. The OW can decide that of course and I don't think she owes me anything but her presence infringed upon my life....my presence in MY marriage, established before her, did not infringe upon her relationship/affair.

 

Define "rights".

 

And the OW doesn't really infringe upon YOUR life....unless you find out about her. Lol.

 

Bottom line: the affair will ALWAYS be the BS's business (regardless of if one speaks to the OW/OM or not ) and the marriage will always be none of the OW/OM's business. One overlap and infringes on something preexisting, pretty much like trespassing...the other doesn't.

 

This makes sense - but it's the CS's portion of the A that is the BS's business, not the OW/OM's portion. It doesn't make a difference to the OW/OM whether they speak with the BS or not - it's really not going to impact their life especially if the A is over, you know? So I can see why most OW/OM won't bother doing so.