Is infidelity wrapped up in human nature?

[Tony T]

2sides2stories wrote in another thread ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t37329 ) the following:

 

"I would argue that people are, by nature, inclined to be dissatisfied with what they have. This may be conditioning as set out for us especially in Western cultures that reflect the "biggerbetterfastermore" concept that fuels our economy, and our lives in general. I would also argue that people are very well aware on some level that there is in fact a great big huge world out there, and that human beings are also inclined to be curious. Perosonally, I do not fault anyone for their curiosities; it is this that has led mankind to great discoveries such as particle physics and mathematics, as well as brilliant works of art and poetry, social sciences, economics, etc. etc. etc. Curiosity also leads people down rather destructive paths, as in the case of interpersonal relationships that seem to be headed south, and one party or another decides to satiate their curiosity by raiding someone's e-mail box or journal, etc.

 

I know we've run this subject to the ground in recent months, usually pinning the blame on individuals rather than human nature or human instincts. Would there be any validity to a hypothesis that the same curiousities that have led man to discover brilliant scientific principles and all manner of things to make life better are akin to those which drive humankind to seek experiences outside of marriage....to satiate their curisotiy by raiding someone else's mate or someone else to whom they are not so wedded? 2sides2stoires implies, in the quote above, that these creative and curious instincts lead people to snoop on their partner. Why wouldn't those same particular drives compel one to redirect certain unfulfilled energies outward from a relationship.

 

I'm not looking for an excuse here. I'm not saying people aren't responsible for their own betrayals just as Thomas Edison must take full responsibility for the light bulb. What I am asking is: Is it possible that adultery is programmed into man, a part of his existence which perhaps in many cases he cannot fight...just as Picasso could not fight the urge to pick up a brush and paint? I know it's an outlandish concept but I am only trying to take what I feel is 2sides valid theory and move it on to the next step...or maybe a continuation of the step she began writing about.

[moimeme]

No. Humans are not that curious. Some are, but most are not. People will eat the same food, live in the same city, drive the same sorts of cars, and wear the same clothes. Most humans are, in fact, creatures of habit.

 

There is a theory going around that the 'adventurers' in life who have gone on to make the discoveries, explore the planet, etc. are actually people with AD/HD - the very ones who are missing the sorts of executive functions which permit the majority of us to plan in advance, foresee consequences, and, basically live cautiously. The theory also goes that the folks who take it too far end up taking themselves out of the gene pool, which is why we haven't developed into a planet full of maniacs who all race cars too fast.

 

It is facile to blame infidelity on biology.

 

People don't like doing things that take effort, and relating to someone takes effort. Most of all, people want what they want and if it's easier to have a relationship with a new person who doesn't know your bad points and will give you sex without giving you grief for the issues you've developed, then someone will do that because it's the easy way out.

 

Relationships require that people be better than they may be inclined to. Lots of people don't want to try to be that much better. Per some of my earlier posts, people aren't inclined to be virtuous - in fact some posters here scoff at the concept. Humans are programmed to be attracted to many other humans, else nobody would ever mate. That we choose mates requires us to engage the higher-order functions, including those we have developed to live lives in cooperation with others. More and more people aren't interested in living cooperatively with others if it means they have to give up instant gratification. It's no coincidence that infidelity and obesity are both occurring at higher and higher percentages - it's all about instant gratification. It's not curiosity or any great grand scheme of human development.

 

The other issue is that people continue to think infidelity is about having sex with someone new. Most of the time it's about getting needs met which have been unmet and the rest is 'chemistry' at work - which isn't even slightly an intellectual drive, but rather a chemical one.

 

So, sorry, 2sides and Tony, but I don't buy this theory in the slightest. Studies have been done on the causes of infidelity. All you have to do is read them. This is not new ground at all. People who engage in affairs are asked why they did so and reply. We've had a bazillion stories here - first-person accounts of infidelity. Nobody has tried to pass it off on some higher, nobler human instinct because it's just not the case.

 

I'm sure there are some people out there who just have to sample lots of different people, but those are the rare exceptions, not the majority.

[yes]

Yes! I believe it's human nature to be curious about what's "out there", hence some of the infidelity (in some other cases, it's caused by other factors). However, it's also possible for humans to control their curiosity and stay faithful - but it's always an effort to do so. I personally don't see anything wrong with occasional pure-physical infidelities, as long as it's done very discretely (business trips, etc). In fact, if I see a man and think "this one would NEVER cheat", it's a turn-off because it signals lack of drive for life/curiosity.

 

my 2c,

-yes

[moimeme]

Here ya go:

 

Several sources with information about the causes of infidelity:

 

This month we will briefly examine some of the common causes of marital infidelity or extramarital affairs. There are probably as many reasons for affairs as there are people having them. From a clinical perspective however, we can look at four major contributing factors. These include sanctions for the activity, philosophical acceptance of the activity, marital tension, and character defects. Lets briefly look at each of these causes.

http://www.counselingnet.com/affairs.html

 

http://www.shirleyglass.com/reflect_infidelity4.htm

 

Nearly all affairs--yes, even yours--follow very specific patterns. They generally fall into four stages, according to several family researchers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/health/march99/infid033099.htm

 

The causes of infidelity are complex and varied. Affairs can occur in happy marriages as well as in troubled ones. Although the involved spouse may not be getting enough from the marriage, sometimes the involved spouse is not giving enough. Reasons for EMI include low self-esteem, relationship deficits (e.g., lack of affection), or a social context in which infidelity is condoned.

Multiple affairs may indicate an addiction to sex, love or romance

http://www.aamft.org/families/Consumer_Updates/Infidelity.asp

 

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/members/journal_issues/cd/1057.pdf

 

http://www.therapyinla.com/articles/article0500.html

 

One of the causes you'll find mentioned again is that the person having the affair felt unloved/unwanted/unappreciated sexually or otherwise by his or her spouse.

[zarathustra]

Curiosity does not kill the fidelity cat, empathy and desire do.

 

In my experience , empathy, friendship and compassion, create a gateway for Eros. No one wakes up one morning, and decides I'm going to cheat. An affair often develops from friendship, the exchange of confidences and an intense attention that comes with someone "other." But this is an intimate "other."

 

As Chris Rock said in his most recent HBO Special, people must choose between being married and bored or single and lonely. An affair, at least initially, allows participants, if both are married, to be married and passionate, "single" and in love. The heat and passion, unfortunately, are not directed at one's spouse.

 

An affair is a palliative for the lives of quiet desperation many of us lead in our marriages.

[Tony T]

"So, sorry, 2sides and Tony, but I don't buy this theory in the slightest."

 

Neither myself nor 2sides advanced any theory here. I was only exploring possibilities, a hypothess of sorts. I, and not 2sides, desired to take it a step further and see what people thought.

 

I very much enjoyed your response, though. But I hope you read stuff thoroughly because, for the record, I don't want to go down as speculating betrayal is a biological imperative. As I said in my post above, I wanted to take what 2sides wrote...which in no way mentioned adultery...and see if people thought it could be explored further in this regard.

 

I also very much appreciate your links but you didn't waste time taking this off topic. I'm just wanting an intellectual exchange on my question about taking 2sides theory a few more steps...simple as that. Already totally aware of the conventionally accepted reasons for cheating. I was hoping we could keep this deep, scientific and philosophical based specifically on my questions.

 

I always get nervous when I do this sort of thing.

[moimeme]

Neither myself nor 2sides advanced any theory here

 

Sorry. From the following, I understood that you had:

Said 2Sides

the same curiousities that have led man to discover brilliant scientific principles and all manner of things to make life better are akin to those which drive humankind to seek experiences outside of marriage....

 

Said Tony

I am only trying to take what I feel is 2sides valid theory

 

which in no way mentioned adultery

 

Sorry again, but right there is the phrase:

 

humankind to seek experiences outside of marriage

 

!

 

I do sometimes skim things but those points seem crystal-clear to me.

 

I always get nervous when I do this sort of thing.

 

No worries. I'm all for interesting new theories; it's just that this stuff has been explored pretty thoroughly and there simply doesn't seem to be a good case for a 'curiosity' theory to be overlaid or underlaid.

[befuddled11]

I'm not sure if I believe that it's human nature to be curious, and it's this inner curiosity that drives people to cheat.

 

I think a lot of the reason that cheating occurs is because of many things. Changing values, the sacredness of marriage being less considered, and living in a world that preaches "do it, get it, buy it, try it, you deserve it, if it feels good do it."

 

Your marriage isn't "perfect" after 3 months? Get a divorce. Tired of your car? Get a new one. Can't afford it? Who cares..you DESERVE A NEW CAR...just finance it! Not getting sex from your spouse 7.8 times a week?...that's not acceptable.....you DESERVE IT, so go out and get it. It's all about self-gratification and this sense of entitlement. If you don't like something, get rid of it (shoes, pets, send the elderly parent to a nursing home), upgrade, trade it in, etc. It's a disposable society and relationships are apparently disposable, too. We've become a very self-centered society......where we chose the easy answer and the easy way out. Commitment and respect and loyalty don't seem to mean much anymore. That's my take, anyway.

[Tony T]

OK, sorry, my fault and inability to communicate. Again, this isn't going in the direction I wanted because of my total inability to articulate and write what I mean.

 

Request links to sites that will assist me in communicating more effectively. Request we cease discussing infidelity and begin a discussion of reasons for inability to express oneself properly. That's my problem!

[moimeme]

OK, then what, exactly is the question? I read 'do you agree that something similar to curiosity may be the cause behind infidelity'.?

 

Is that the question?

[befuddled11]

Forgot to add....

 

Cheating is a lot more easy to do, and socially acceptable.

 

Hell, there's actually websites and forums and dating sites out there now, designed especially FOR *married people* who are looking for a little fun. Does it get any easier?

 

And now, you can get your rocks off behind your spouse's back, all from the comfort of your office chair. A few clicks here, a few clicks there, and you have a plethora of internet personal ads to choose from.......and no longer do you have to embarassingly go down to the corner store to by Hustler........you can find all the porn you want online PLUS be able to use your webcam and PC to actually communicate with the person masturbating on the other side of their monitor.

 

There's even websites and forums dedicated to the "Other Man and Other Woman"..so they can get together for a good ol' chat, to commiserate and share about their affairs.....gaining the support and acceptance of other cheaters.

 

Tired of your wife or husband? No problem. Just find a chat room and you can meet someone in no time......or, place a personal ad online and voila, you don't have to skulk around in a dingey bar to meet someone for a discreet rendez-vous....you can find your dream mistress online, hell, even have cybersex if you're so inclined.

[moimeme]

While waiting for Tony to reformulate his question, I'm interested in this first-person account. Z, you speak of 'lives of quiet desperation' and then say 'empathy, friendship and compassion, create a gateway for Eros'

 

Am I right to then glean that the 'boring' marriage is actually lacking in 'empathy, friendship and compassion'?

[Tony T]

You have answered my post in the way you interpreted it. which was valid, yet not quite the direction I was hoping for. That I was hoping for a particular direction was my own faulty science. However, I profited greatly from what you wrote in other ways and I appreciate your contribution.

 

I still have a thirst for exploring the aspect about which I inquired but I'll save that for another time and another place.

 

"I read 'do you agree that something similar to curiosity may be the cause behind infidelity'.?"

 

Actually, that's an oversimplification but certainly in the ballpark. My questions are clearly stated in my original post. I didn't want to put my own ideas into this until I heard from others. However, I do think there is some mysterious link between the curiosity that causes people to snoop in their partner's mail and computers and that which motivates others to seek exposure to new penises, vaginas, and unfamiliar emotional exchanges. I will stop there for the time being.

 

Let's end it here and I will reword my original post and put it up earlier in the day some other time. It's not of grave significance and I have gotten a lot of material from you here which made the effort worthwhile anyway. Many kind thanks.

[Tony T]

"Am I right to then glean that the 'boring' marriage is actually lacking in 'empathy, friendship and compassion'?"

 

I don't object others taking this thread for a drive in the country. It's OK!

[moimeme]

Hive that off to a new thread, if you prefer. You have the power!

[Tony T]

Nah....we've driven cheating into the ground, clear to China. Let people write what they will here. Meanwhile, I'm going to watch "Law and Order" on USA Network.

 

I'll learn something no matter what is written here. Many thanks!!!

[zarathustra]

Am I right to then glean that the 'boring' marriage is actually lacking in 'empathy, friendship and compassion'?

 

Compared to the affair relationship, they do. In an affair, people tend to give their best--whether it's sex, romance, insight, wit, etc. The marriage, as a result, suffers from neglect.

 

The new lover is like new unexplored territory that you not only want to conquer but also to explore, map and learn. The new lover is a new world.

 

An affair is the offspring of care, curiosity and carnality. Care forms the attachment, curiosity deepens the attachment and carnality keeps the attachment going--usually in the face of universal disapproval.

 

So perhaps people who have affairs are Christopher Columbus's of the Heart.

[moimeme]

Wasn't Columbus the guy who totally lost track of where he was going and ended up in the wrong place by mistake?

[2SidestoStories]

Wow...you leave a place for a few hours, and people are interpreting your quotes in all manner of insanity left and right! WAY TO GO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE MORE TIME THAN I DO!!! (I'm jealous. I'm still doing homework!)

 

Thanks to you all for making my life smugly satisfying.

 

BTW, moimeme, have you considered being a politician or lawyer? <weg>

 

Perhaps at the root of all of this is the fact that people are too busy trying to assign meaning that is just plain NOT there to things so that they'll feel better about living in this world. oops, was that cynical of me?

[moimeme]

Just stretching the academic brain, 2S. I only just this week was doing required reading on theory; the positing and defense thereof; a nice refresher. Since I, too, am studying again, I've got to exercise the skills if I'm to effectively develop my own theories or refute those of others, no?

 

I didn't address the issue of curiosity and emails, etc. first time you posted this because the board's been through this discussion before, but I think 'curiosity' is not at all the motivating force for such acts. If anything, it's dread - dread that one has wrongly placed one's trust and dread that one's gut instincts that one has done so are on target. We can't afford to trust people who betray us; that's why we must know for sure whether someone is being honest or not if the fear arises. There's fear, there's pain, there's the fervent hope that one is wrong, but not really anything like curiosity, IMHO.

[2SidestoStories]

Flex dem brain muscles! (yes, I know. Brain does not equal muscle. I'll catch myself and spare the flamage for that one!)

 

Still, they are theories, and certainly though they have evidence to back them up, there will be other evidence that arises through time that may refute the inital "evidence" thereby making said theories obsolete. I admire your wealth of linkage, though moi. Sincerely!

 

And if I may say so, the evidence that I have personally collected whilst analyzing myself leads me to believe that I'm not one to sit complacently and create new theories. I'd much rather be out discovering the missing link or some entirely unknown species of dinosaur than trying to sort out the reasons that people behave the way they do. Instead, I've got to figure out how to handle MYSELF in these ridiculously increasingly complicated social workings that make up the human world.

 

Did you know that theorists have deduced that an incredibly likely reason that human beings evolved larger brains was so that we could deal with one another?! What a job we've done, hm?

[moimeme]

And if I may say so, the evidence that I have personally collected whilst analyzing myself leads me to believe that I'm not one to sit complacently and create new theories

 

Not sure why this came up - not, I hope, because you inferred that from something I said.

 

I have personally collected whilst analyzing myself

 

Which is where the important assumptions lie. Very often, if a person believes in a theory, it is not necessarily that the person believes it to be logically true, but rather that the theory rings true to the person's own experience. Other times, it is an observation someone makes in watching others without having had a similar experience. I'm not saying either is necessarily logical or illogical; I'm talking about reasons for credence.

 

So, as a hypothetical, I could assume, for instance, that the reason you attribute the urge to snoop into emails to 'curiosity' is that it would be your own motivating influence - or has been (remember, this is hypothetical). Another possibility is that someone told you that that was why they did some snooping and so you incorporated that into your theory. Maybe we're not even using 'curiosity' the same way. Anyhoo, that's how theories begin, which is cool - but you know when you run one up the flagpole, not everyone will salute!

 

Did you know that theorists have deduced that an incredibly likely reason that human beings evolved larger brains was so that we could deal with one another?!

 

Here's a theory of mine for you - which I have yet to check out to see where the tests may be; I believe a chunk of this brain of ours evolved to rationalize our own behaviour.

[2SidestoStories]

Not sure why this came up - not, I hope, because you inferred that from something I said.

 

Nope.

 

Another possibility is that someone told you that that was why they did some snooping and so you incorporated that into your theory.

 

Yup.

 

but you know when you run one up the flagpole, not everyone will salute!

 

Mmmm...flagpole....Oh, sorry. Um. Yup.

 

Here's a theory of mine for you - which I have yet to check out to see where the tests may be; I believe a chunk of this brain of ours evolved to rationalize our own behaviour.

 

 

Well, then, here's another theory of mine, which has been put to the test repeatedly and has in fact got a lot of non-scientific evidence to back itself up, though I'm sure if I actually took the time to satiate my, er, curiosity, I would actually find plenty of threads even just here on LS to link to...

 

DRUMROLL

 

...People take themselves FAR too seriously.

[moimeme]

People take themselves FAR too seriously.

 

And some exceedingly silly people sometimes get a charge out of diving into a brain exercise. 'Course it's no fun at all if everybody else leaves the pool.

 

[2SidestoStories]

SPLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!