waytogo Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I don't speak of everyone's situation. I am reflecting on my past as an OW and considering some of the frustrations OW post. Doesn't the stagnation of the situation ware most OP's out? Even when you can manage some get-aways and see each other reasonably often, doesn't that brick wall of what you will not, or not likely get past become a drag. Where was the WS's imagination when his/her M needed new life. Even if they tried somethings, how much did they try and why did they quit trying and decide an A was easier? Please don't say kids because that is 1 very real reason NOT to take on an action that would hurt them and their outlook on trust of the whole world should the cheater get caught. In my case, I had my own home, PERFECT. Yes we managed some trips and dinners out but mostly, my house for some hours and occasional whole weekends or weeknights over. BIG DEAL. In my exclusive R's this was never an issue on a more regular basis. It took no excessive energy to arrange in exclusive R's. 2 things really drove me to get out of an A without another party to take up that time and concentration that was draining me. 1st, that nagging conscience. 2nd, it just became so boring in between any real events like time away. Even great sex becomes just sex when only talk of future can be what you might 'sneak to get away with next' or what each will be doing that the other can't be involved with in the future. When I look back on my A, it screams of a lack of imagination on both MM's and my part.
KathyM Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I would think it is a very unfulfilling life, and boring life, for the affair partner to have to live within the restrictions of an affair. They can't be seen in public, since someone the married person knows might see them together. Can't go away for trips or vacations, since it would arouse suspicion with the faithful partner. Have to sneak around and settle for scraps and be limited mostly to the bedroom. Pretty boring and unfulfilling relationship if you ask me.
Author waytogo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 I would think it is a very unfulfilling life, and boring life, for the affair partner to have to live within the restrictions of an affair. They can't be seen in public, since someone the married person knows might see them together. Can't go away for trips or vacations, since it would arouse suspicion with the faithful partner. Have to sneak around and settle for scraps and be limited mostly to the bedroom. Pretty boring and unfulfilling relationship if you ask me. While it wasn't quite like you describe here, it became VERY unfulfilling. A's are often described as exciting. There were times of excitement. Not more times than my exclusive R's, actually less. The monotomy (probably didn't spell) of the box became so boring, being alone to think of ways to get back to a more fulfilling life became more exciting. That time did pay off
OldOnTheInside Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) A's are often described as exciting. There were times of excitement. Not more times than my exclusive R's, actually less. The monotomy (probably didn't spell) of the box became so boring, being alone to think of ways to get back to a more fulfilling life became more exciting. That time did pay off Monotony. Many of the people I surround myself with, are severely lacking in the imagination department. A shame. I'd imagine that many of their problems could be solved, if they were a little more open-minded and creative about it. Of course, my imagination is too active, so maybe I'm just talking sh*t. Dunno what your current relationship status is wtg, but I found that one way to keep my last marriage alive, was to introduce a lot of imagination into it. There are a lot of ways to keep the sex and romance fresh, even 30 years down the line. Just have to think on it with your partner(s). Where was the WS's imagination when his/her M needed new life. Even if they tried somethings, how much did they try and why did they quit trying and decide an A was easier?Depends. Some of the clients I've worked with did everything that they could and just gave up due to an uncompromising BS. Others clearly had no idea how healthy relationships function, or just dragged their Ms down along with their own personal problems. My ex-wife didn't get much fulfillment out of her affair. And I've certainly never enjoyed hitting brickwalls. I think that it's a universal thing and not specific to an affair environment. Edited July 19, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
Author waytogo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 Monotony. Many of the people I surround myself with, are severely lacking in the imagination department. A shame. I'd imagine that many of their problems could be solved, if they were a little more open-minded and creative about it. Of course, my imagination is too active, so maybe I'm just talking sh*t. Dunno what your current relationship status is wtg, but I found that one way to keep my last marriage alive, was to introduce a lot of imagination into it. There are a lot of ways to keep the sex and romance fresh, even 30 years down the line. Just have to think on it with your partner(s). Depends. Some of the clients I've worked with did everything that they could and just gave up due to an uncompromising BS. Others clearly had no idea how healthy relationships function, or just dragged their Ms down along with their own personal problems. My ex-wife didn't get much fulfillment out of her affair. And I've certainly never enjoyed hitting brickwalls. I think that it's a universal thing and not specific to an affair environment. Completely agree with the bolded. I actually didn't mean this only applied to an A environment. I was speaking of A's due the forum What I don't understand about myself is, if I had been as bored or stagnant in a real exclusive R, I would have been out b4 I exited from the A. Do you think that was some kind of defiance on my part, to those that say 'A's never work out'. Whether they said it to me, or I read that...did I possibly hang in past what I enjoyed because it stinks like sewage to become the cliche' others say you WILL become, if you continue this? I can be stubborn. Mom used to tell me not to cut off my nose to spite my face. I think I don't like myself in this story
MissBee Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Doesn't the stagnation of the situation ware most OP's out? Even when you can manage some get-aways and see each other reasonably often, doesn't that brick wall of what you will not, or not likely get past become a drag. 2 things really drove me to get out of an A without another party to take up that time and concentration that was draining me. 1st, that nagging conscience. 2nd, it just became so boring in between any real events like time away. Even great sex becomes just sex when only talk of future can be what you might 'sneak to get away with next' or what each will be doing that the other can't be involved with in the future. I don't know about lack of imagination but I do think stagnation does describe my former situation to a tee. It was all good and well until I considered the future. That reality nagged at me and when enjoying the good times, I always thought about when it would end and how the situation as is could not go on forever. It wasn't boring, so much as it eventually became frustrating and stagnant. The deeper it got and the more I loved him, the more I wanted and the more what I couldn't have and do and plan with him became apparent. The more it continued the more it seemed like it was a waste and I was going in circles and there was an obvious "cap" on the situation. It was draining. It felt like a feat to compartmentalize and to try to be satisfied with the limitations. Overtime we would get into more arguments about it and the little things I could ignore when it was fresh, as time went on and the relationship couldn't mature or grow into what I needed, the more disgruntled I got and that's when I felt like I had to make a decision once and for all.
OldOnTheInside Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Completely agree with the bolded. I actually didn't mean this only applied to an A environment. I was speaking of A's due the forum Yeah. I'm sure that's it... There needs to be a hand-to-forehead smiley. What I don't understand about myself is, if I had been as bored or stagnant in a real exclusive R, I would have been out b4 I exited from the A. Do you think that was some kind of defiance on my part, to those that say 'A's never work out'. Whether they said it to me, or I read that...did I possibly hang in past what I enjoyed because it stinks like sewage to become the cliche' others say you WILL become, if you continue this? I can be stubborn. Mom used to tell me not to cut off my nose to spite my face. I think I don't like myself in this story I do think that you just found your answer. Hopefully this experience has taught you that there are times when you need to back down. Most of my overly-stubborn friends have ended up getting the cr*p beaten out of 'em. Both literally and metaphorically.
spice4life Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I don't speak of everyone's situation. I am reflecting on my past as an OW and considering some of the frustrations OW post. Doesn't the stagnation of the situation ware most OP's out? Even when you can manage some get-aways and see each other reasonably often, doesn't that brick wall of what you will not, or not likely get past become a drag. Where was the WS's imagination when his/her M needed new life. Even if they tried somethings, how much did they try and why did they quit trying and decide an A was easier? Please don't say kids because that is 1 very real reason NOT to take on an action that would hurt them and their outlook on trust of the whole world should the cheater get caught. In my case, I had my own home, PERFECT. Yes we managed some trips and dinners out but mostly, my house for some hours and occasional whole weekends or weeknights over. BIG DEAL. In my exclusive R's this was never an issue on a more regular basis. It took no excessive energy to arrange in exclusive R's. 2 things really drove me to get out of an A without another party to take up that time and concentration that was draining me. 1st, that nagging conscience. 2nd, it just became so boring in between any real events like time away. Even great sex becomes just sex when only talk of future can be what you might 'sneak to get away with next' or what each will be doing that the other can't be involved with in the future. When I look back on my A, it screams of a lack of imagination on both MM's and my part. Thank you for posting..it has given me a lot to think about. Did you ever feel like the creativity was left up to you during the affair. Was all the pressure on you to supply the rendevue location and the works? Did he even step out on a limb to accomodate you at any point? Like i said, it has given me a lot to think about...thanks! One last question, did you feel guilty for abandoning him even though it was mostly about being addicted to the "lusty chemicals" for him?. I felt horrible! I felt horrible because i actually did love him and care about him. I felt like i abandoned a friend in need when in reality I was enabling him! Codependant much!? I still feel that way! Because I actually care. Even though his actions towards me totally sucked and were the absolute worst. I feel bad because I know the real reason why, he was addicted to me and nothing more. But how do you tell a friend that? Edited July 19, 2011 by spice4life
Author waytogo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 Thank you for posting..it has given me a lot to think about. Did you ever feel like the creativity was left up to you during the affair. Was all the pressure on you to supply the rendevue location and the works? Did he even step out on a limb to accomodate you at any point? Like i said, it has given me a lot to think about...thanks! One last question, did you feel guilty for abandoning him even though it was mostly about being addicted to the "lusty chemicals" for him?. I felt horrible! I felt horrible because i actually did love him and care about him. I felt like i abandoned a friend in need when in reality I was enabling him! Codependant much!? I still feel that way! Because I actually care. Even though his actions towards me totally sucked and were the absolute worst. I feel bad because I know the real reason why, he was addicted to me and nothing more. But how do you tell a friend that? Darling, I wish we could go for a 4 hour lunch. To his credit, he did step out on limbs and do things for 'us'. Really that was more for him I believe, even if he didn't mean for it to be so. That was about keeping me complacent for the time I was, even if he didn't think that while being 'wonderful'. I felt horrible because i actually did love him and care about him. I felt like i abandoned a friend in need when in reality I was enabling him! The bolded is why we would need at least 4 hrs for lunch Yes, I felt guilt. As I put in a previous post, MM is not really our friend once an A starts. He does put protecting his homelife b4 us. That could be understandable if it was 'just a friend'. I'm speaking of after intamacy. Intamacy is more than 'just a friend'. He is choosing to protect 1 more than the other. He's not choosing 'us', his friend or intamate partner. We aren't really being his friend either. We KNOW he has a situation he intends to protect. We are helping him jeapordize that situation. I didn't mention, we weren't being a fries nd to ourselves. What about the real and uncomplicated love we could have for ourselves if we weren't comitted to someone who wasn't comitted to us? It was less than a yr for me, to get out of A and have the right man for the rest of my life. I do hope this tells you where your life can take you if you don't devote yourself to someone who isn't devoted to you. Your questions are great. I believe in your future.
Author waytogo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 Yeah. I'm sure that's it... There needs to be a hand-to-forehead smiley. I do think that you just found your answer. Hopeully this experience has taught you that there are times when you need to back' down. Most of my overly-stubborn friends have ended up getting the cr*p beaten out of 'em. Both literally and metaphorically. I'm not sure if the bolded was sarcastic; but I don't mind either way. I like your posts. This experience has taught me to back down among other things. I had read, have lived and fully get, you can't be selfish and be happy. That's just 1 thing. Without reading it, I've learned you can't go against your own principals and be happy. You can't do to another, even in a distance what you wouldn't want one to do do you and be happy. You can't exercise any of the above and take your life where you really want to take it. For the record OOTI, noone has ever beaten the crap out of me physically. Noone could ever take me on in any other way as I will take to myself, when I know I'm living less than my par. I truly appreciate your input.
OldOnTheInside Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I was only joking wtg... This experience has taught me to back down among other things. I had read, have lived and fully get, you can't be selfish and be happy. That's just 1 thing.Good. Humility and introspection are things that more people need to have. And I'm sure that I don't have to paint you a picture of how nasty it is to literally have the cr*p beaten out of you. Doesn't smell pleasant for one thing. I wish you well. Edited July 19, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
Author waytogo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 I was only joking wtg... Good. Humility is something that more people need to have. And I'm sure that I don't have to paint you a picture of how nasty it is to literally have the cr*p beaten out of you. Doesn't smell pleasant. I wish you well. I wish you well also. Truly sorry you dealt with an x chasing rainbows. If you don't mind, I'm sorry for her also. Reality can bite at times, but at least it's ours. We can embrase it and shape it more to our liking. To have someone really involved to shape it with us is something to cherish.
OldOnTheInside Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I wish you well also. Truly sorry you dealt with an x chasing rainbows. If you don't mind, I'm sorry for her also. Reality can bite at times, but at least it's ours. We can embrase it and shape it more to our liking. To have someone really involved to shape it with us is something to cherish. Eh, it happened over 15 years ago, so we've both moved on (for the most part) from it now. I'm sure that we would still be married now, if not for her declining mental health. And on the off chance that somebody plans on jumping at my throat about this: No, I did not throw my wife under a bus when I learnt that she was unwell. I also see that you are the philosophical type.
Silly_Girl Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Lack of imagination? Or lack of motivation? Seems as though many types of affairs involve denial or conflict avoidance which I think could link easily to lack of imagination.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 lack of imagination? Or lack of motivation? Seems as though many types of affairs involve denial or conflict avoidance which i think could link easily to lack of imagination. conflict avoidance? Really!
Gentlegirl Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 MM did not lack imagination and neither do I. We did many things togehter..... I think a pistol shooting course, hot air balloon ride, motorbike riding and much more would not bore anybody. The thing was THE FUTURE as you so rightly pointed out. Who wants to go on living as a dirty secret? I was a nervous wreck trying to craft my life to fit in with his wife's schedule! The A became the most significant thing in my life. I relied on MM for so much...intimacy, emotional support, and just osmebody to talk to. It became a monster that I had to slay. all the best, Gentlegirl
Spark1111 Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 hmmmm...interesting thread! FBS here.... In therapy we learned that it was not so much what he wasn't getting from our marriage that led to his affair; it was what he wasn't, or had stopped, giving. He emotionally checked-out, and then blamed the marriage, me, for all his problems. Yep, conflict-avoidance coupled with some depression. Not a fun guy to be around, for sure. Angry, moody might be a turn on for some. Feeling you could be "the one" to change him, make him truly happy, might be empowering to others. But affairs, for their illicit and often stormy nature, sure sounds like fun, a diversion, a reason to feel more alive. I think she DID plan all their weekends away. How tiresome for her.
Silly_Girl Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I think she DID plan all their weekends away. How tiresome for her. Why tiresome? I like to do all that stuff, mostly have all my adult life. Not just relationships, but friends and family things too.
spice4life Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 hmmmm...interesting thread! FBS here.... Feeling you could be "the one" to change him, make him truly happy, might be empowering to others. r. I can honestly say that changing him was certainly not on my agenda. Learned that lesson many many moons ago. If i can't accept someone for who they are then it's time to go.
spice4life Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Darling, I wish we could go for a 4 hour lunch. To his credit, he did step out on limbs and do things for 'us'. Really that was more for him I believe, even if he didn't mean for it to be so. That was about keeping me complacent for the time I was, even if he didn't think that while being 'wonderful'. I felt horrible because i actually did love him and care about him. I felt like i abandoned a friend in need when in reality I was enabling him! The bolded is why we would need at least 4 hrs for lunch Yes, I felt guilt. As I put in a previous post, MM is not really our friend once an A starts. He does put protecting his homelife b4 us. That could be understandable if it was 'just a friend'. I'm speaking of after intamacy. Intamacy is more than 'just a friend'. He is choosing to protect 1 more than the other. He's not choosing 'us', his friend or intamate partner. We aren't really being his friend either. We KNOW he has a situation he intends to protect. We are helping him jeapordize that situation. I didn't mention, we weren't being a fries nd to ourselves. What about the real and uncomplicated love we could have for ourselves if we weren't comitted to someone who wasn't comitted to us? It was less than a yr for me, to get out of A and have the right man for the rest of my life. I do hope this tells you where your life can take you if you don't devote yourself to someone who isn't devoted to you. Your questions are great. I believe in your future. Thank you waytogo. This gives me the inspiration I need to stay strong and let him go "with love" even though he probably hates me right now. I am finally accepting my role in this whole story and you're right, I wasn't being a friend at all, to him or myself. I was colluding and it's time to take responsibility for that now. I have to accept that I didn't stick to my guns after trying to end it, for what seems like a hundred times, in the past. At least I was consistant though! I tried to walk away each and every time for the same reasons! He might not agree, but going back and looking at the history, it's all there. He didn't hear it and I didn't really mean it because I was being selfish and wanted him in my life. Selective hearing and reasoning I guess. It's funny though, everytime I feel like I understand the whole thing, a new epiphany pops up. Da*n it! I just want to move on and be happy for cripes sake! How much longer is this going to go on!?
Sharon1961 Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I think this is an interesting topic because I have come to believe that a lack of imagination is pervasive in our society these days. People have been trained by the media to believe that problems get solved in half an hour (sitcoms), two hours (movies), etc. And the media shows us that affairs are exciting. Blech. We as a society have become really passive. So, instead of stretching ourselves to improve our lives, grow as people, challenge ourselves, etc. we look for what we can have that someone else has said is exciting or interesting. I think we have forgotten that everyone is unique and so is every situation. There are two people in a marriage and those people are (hopefully) constantly evolving. It can take time to really get to know someone. But people don't want to put time and thought into much these days. Sorry for the ramble/rant!
MissBee Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Why tiresome? I like to do all that stuff, mostly have all my adult life. Not just relationships, but friends and family things too. I don't know if this woman found it tiresome or not...but I think that there is a difference between someone handing something over to you because they know that's your forte versus a situation where you're knocking yourself out because if you don't do it, this other person won't. I love planning as well but I need a man who takes interest and can surprise me and take initiative with his own plans, or be actively engaged in the plans I've made or show some concern and feedback about it versus one who passively agrees to what I plan and never steps up to do anything. I don't know, like I said, if that was the situation, but for some relationships (affairs and others) that's what happens and that is tiresome. I've been there. When one party feels obligated to steer the relationship as it is evident if they don't, the other person won't step up, then the fatigue sets in. I think this goes for marriages too and keeping the spark alive. Both people have to be co-pilots. Of course he'll prefer certain tasks more than I do and vice-versa but we both need to show interest and initiative and support, and just an active engagement in the relationship for it to work and not be tiresome or boring.
MissBee Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) I think this is an interesting topic because I have come to believe that a lack of imagination is pervasive in our society these days. People have been trained by the media to believe that problems get solved in half an hour (sitcoms), two hours (movies), etc. And the media shows us that affairs are exciting. Blech. We as a society have become really passive. So, instead of stretching ourselves to improve our lives, grow as people, challenge ourselves, etc. we look for what we can have that someone else has said is exciting or interesting. I think we have forgotten that everyone is unique and so is every situation. There are two people in a marriage and those people are (hopefully) constantly evolving. It can take time to really get to know someone. But people don't want to put time and thought into much these days. Sorry for the ramble/rant! I very much agree. I shared a similar sentiment in my previous post. Actively engaging in your life and relationship is so important. I think when people rely on others to entertain them or all these outside sources of stimuli, it's easy to become passive and just always expecting to receive and never considering what you have to give and putting in work. I think the internet age, our microwave society, one click of a button for everything and social media saturation help to fuel that boredom. You buy a technological device now, in 3 months they have a newer, better one before you even got used to the last one, every second there is some new viral video that's the next hottest thing to discuss then that's old news, you flip on tv, twitter, youtube, facebook, the entertainment has been brought to your living room or on the go at your fingertips.....the list goes on....it is no wonder people have short attention spans and putting in work for a relationship and dealing with the lull periods and being active mentally, physically, emotionally is not second nature. Edited July 20, 2011 by MissBee
Silly_Girl Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I don't know if this woman found it tiresome or not...but I think that there is a difference between someone handing something over to you because they know that's your forte versus a situation where you're knocking yourself out because if you don't do it, this other person won't. I think my boyfriend would get a short shrift if he 'delegated' our planning to me!! :laugh:
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