gothowitz Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I just got out of a five-month-long relationship with a man who decided to drop me like a hot potato. I'm what people call the classic, all-around "good girl." When I get into a relationship, I start thinking in terms of "we" instead of "I," and more often than not, I find myself investing more of myself into it than the other person. I don't believe that I'm insecure and desperate. I know that I have a lot of things going for me, and I can be completely happy being alone. It's just really in my nature to nurture, and it makes me feel good to know that I am able to be there for the people that I love. I thought that if I showed him the true me, the me that didn't want to play games and just wanted to show him how much I cared about him, supported him through his multiple job application rejections, and appreciated the good things that he'd done for me, he'd never want to let me go. When we started our relationship, he'd told me that I was a good girlfriend and that I was unlike any of the girls he'd ever met because of my values. Even his family adored me when I met them because they'd probably heard stories from him about how I treated him. The one thing that I believe that would've been an issue for him was that, being the non-confrontational person that I am, I was very cautious about what I said and how I said things, so I usually tended to keep quiet when I got upset to think about whether I was justified for feeling the way I did instead of lashing out, and I think that that might have frustrated my ex no matter how many times I'd explained to him that I was working on that problem of mine. People have told me time and again that you shouldn't change who you are for somebody else, but I think that my "niceness" is working against me in my relationships. Am I really doing anything wrong? Do good girls really finish last?
Rinas Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I was more then giving in my previous relationship, I was walked over, and taken advantage of. However, it doesn't mean that I believe that all men are the same. Just because this guy didn't work out, doesn't mean that you should have doubts in general. Many men will appreciate a overall nice girl.
Rinas Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Nice guys get a short end of the stick.....what is funny...these so called "nice girls" would never date a "nice guy" who would never walk all over them.... If you know where to find one of these nice guys, please send him my way.
robdrm32 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I was more then giving in my previous relationship, I was walked over, and taken advantage of. However, it doesn't mean that I believe that all men are the same. Just because this guy didn't work out, doesn't mean that you should have doubts in general. Many men will appreciate a overall nice girl. Agree. OP, dont change yourself. It may take time to find a man that appreciates your "we" mentality (god knows i would, too many selfish women i know) so don't go thinking you did anything wrong. If you know in your heart you were good to him then chalk it up to his inability to appreciate it, rather than thinking it reflects on you. This world needs more good girls, so stay that way.
GoodOnPaper Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Nice guys get a short end of the stick.....what is funny...these so called "nice girls" would never date a "nice guy" who would never walk all over them.... Too true. Unfortunately, a lot of guys who have a great comfort level and skills in a relationship hardly register on the attraction radar -- no matter how "nice" the girl is . . .
Andy_K Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 A while ago someone posted about the hot/crazy threshold. You can get away with being no more crazy than you are hot. This could be a similar thing. The Sexy/Nice threshold. You can get away with being no more nice than you are sexy, or else the guy will feel mothered rather than desired/desiring, and that will kill any relationship.
KR10N Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Nice guys get a short end of the stick.....what is funny...these so called "nice girls" would never date a "nice guy" who would never walk all over them....This may be true but isn't so for all women. I could never tolerate a man walking all over me. If you know where to find one of these nice guys, please send him my way. He's referring to himself. This forum is FULL of them...including this poster.You right! And one of them is FULL of himself.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I believe that I am dating a "nice guy". I also believe that I am a "nice girl". I feel like my every single "nice action" is appreciated. In fact, when we started dating my boyfriend told me: "Do you know what's the key to my heart? Just be kind to me".
Casablanca Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I start thinking in terms of "we" instead of "I," and more often than not, I find myself investing more of myself into it than the other person. I don't believe that I'm insecure and desperate. I know that I have a lot of things going for me, and I can be completely happy being alone. It's just really in my nature to nurture, and it makes me feel good to know that I am able to be there for the people that I love. You sound perfect to me! There are guys who like how you described yourself and there are those who do not like that, he wasnt one, but there are guys who like nice girls Also how old was he? The younger the guy is, the more likely he is to want to date different types of girls and not appreciate a nice girl right away....well at least this was me for a couple of years
Author gothowitz Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 I knew that my ex still saw me as sexy but yeah I think I might've been a bit of a doormat. I was just talking to a friend of mine and I told her that, looking back, there were instances during the relationship where he didn't treat me well, but because I didn't want unnecessary conflict if I could let then pass, it wasn't easy to discern at the time that I was being disrespected and taken for granted. I thought he was a good guy. In the beginnin he was but I guess when he realised that I could be so capable of giving without asking for much in return, he lost interest.
somedude81 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I knew that my ex still saw me as sexy but yeah I think I might've been a bit of a doormat. I was just talking to a friend of mine and I told her that, looking back, there were instances during the relationship where he didn't treat me well, but because I didn't want unnecessary conflict if I could let then pass, it wasn't easy to discern at the time that I was being disrespected and taken for granted. I thought he was a good guy. In the beginnin he was but I guess when he realised that I could be so capable of giving without asking for much in return, he lost interest. Sounds like the problem wasn't you but him. There is nothing wrong with a nice girl who loves and gives.
tigressA Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Sounds like the problem wasn't you but him. There is nothing wrong with a nice girl who loves and gives. I don't really agree. From the way you described yourself as being passive and non-confrontational, you are a doormat. Do not ever allow someone to treat you with disrespect, especially in a romantic relationship. If something bothers/upsets/hurts you in some way, say so. Speak up. You're not a b*tch if you speak up, unless you're doing it in a way that disrespects the other person. If you don't assert yourself, then you're allowing people to see that you tolerate being mistreated. People don't respect doormats. Edited July 15, 2011 by tigressA
somedude81 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Nothing I said that she should allow her self to be treated with disrespect. That's why I said the problem was with her BF. Anybody who disrespects and takes his GF for granted is not a good guy.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I don't really agree. From the way you described yourself as being passive and non-confrontational, you are a doormat. Do not ever allow someone to treat you with disrespect, especially in a romantic relationship. If something bothers/upsets/hurts you in some way, say so. Speak up. You're not a b*tch if you speak up, unless you're doing it in a way that disrespects the other person. If you don't assert yourself, then you're allowing people to see that you tolerate being mistreated. People don't respect doormats. I agree with this. Nice is not the same as being a doormat. You can be very loving and giving majority of the time but you should still speak up when upset.
April72 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 No one wants to be with someone who never speaks up or fights back so to speak. I have had this problem and I tend to be the giver and the nuturer... my last breakup the guy told me that I never said anything when upset and that was a problem. I totally catered to him in every way. It made me happy to make him happy. I have since learned to start speaking up for myself. Relationships need to go two ways not one. I still want to be nice and take care of my partner but I no longer suck up that things I feel I should get off my chest. Don't change yourself.... but do learn to speak your mind... you are half the relationship.
Nexus One Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Classic discussion about the difference between assertiveness and aggressiveness. Many people that consider themselves to be in the nice category, tend to think more often than not that assertiveness equals aggression or that being assertive comes across as aggressive. I think it's best to find a balance when it comes to this and mastering that balance is a skill, it's something that can be learned over time and with which you need to become comfortable. Do I think your boyfriend dumped you because you were too nice? I don't know, that would be a VERY weird reason in my opinion. Perhaps he simply fell out of his crush. But the way he handled it, i.e. by just not contacting you anymore without notice, that's no class. Edited July 15, 2011 by Nexus One
KathyM Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I think there is such a thing as too nice. I think guys like it when a girl speaks her mind (in a respectful way) and is not afraid to disagree with them. She should also have expectations, although reasonable, and not be a push over. Not always trying to acquiesce to his wishes. She needs to be her own person and have respect for herself and her own opinions, wishes, etc. If she comes across as a push-over, a doormat, or someone lacking in a sense of herself and unwilling to assert herself, guys think of her as too weak, timid and uninteresting. There is such a think as trying too hard to get along and sacrificing yourself in the process.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I just got out of a five-month-long relationship with a man who decided to drop me like a hot potato. Like the so-called "nice guys", most "nice girls" are not really as nice as they think they are and often have certain unattractive personality traits (i.e. being clingy, insecure, suffocating, etc.) Whether this applies to you is impossible to say without knowing the context of your breakup.
Buck Turgidson Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 "Niceness" is not a sufficient basis on which to attract members of the opposite sex or base a relationship. In fact, what's called "niceness" is generally over-adherence to gender roles and social expectations. "Nice" people tend to be people who care too much what other people think, and so they say or do things that they think will please other people. In other words, they are boring and have no personality to call their own. Nice people often lash out too (frequently passive-aggressively), as a result of suppressing their personalities. It's just really in my nature to nurture, and it makes me feel good to know that I am able to be there for the people that I love. It's great that you're a nurturer. You should have kids then. But healthy people don't want a partner to nurture them. They want an equal partner to share with them. Even people who play master/slave games want equal partners despite the roles being different. I thought that if I showed him the true me, the me that didn't want to play games and just wanted to show him how much I cared about him, supported him through his multiple job application rejections, and appreciated the good things that he'd done for me, he'd never want to let me go. You're talking the language of commerce here, not the language of love. "If I do such-and-such for him, then he'll reward me by marrying me." Not necessarily. Men are not rewards for good behavior. Men are people. You're treating him like an object of desire. To stay with you, he needs to be attracted to you, to want to be with you, to be healthy and ready for a permanent relationship, etc., etc., none of which you can control. His dumping you wasn't necessarily because of anything under your control at all---- and rarely will it be in the future. You have to accept that sometimes he's just not into you. Don't stop supporting your lovers, but don't expect anything directly in return for it either. You can't make someone fall in love with you by doing things for them. Someone falls in love with you because the stars are right, the chemistry is right, because you fit in an ineffable way. Not because you made him dinner. This is one way that "nice" people are not so nice after all. You say you're nice because you did all these supportive things for him. But it seems that you were only doing those things to hook him--- you expected him to feel indebted in return. That's not very nice at all.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 People have told me time and again that you shouldn't change who you are for somebody else, but I think that my "niceness" is working against me in my relationships. Am I really doing anything wrong? Do good girls really finish last? I think so. I have always been sweet and loving with the men in my life, and I feel that they have always begun to take it for granted eventually. But I know women who are genuine BITCHES to good men, and those men will do just about anything to keep them happy. I just don't know how much of a bitch I can genuinely be. I don't have it in me to be selfish and mean. It comes naturally to me to be very loving and good to the people I'm close to. Something that has been extremely effective for me is behaving as if I can take or leave the guy. Now, instead of ruminating about anything we might do in the future together and that kind of thing, I just take the moments as they come, and let him do the dreaming and planning. Also, rather than accepting any invitation to spend time with him, I have other things going on and don't necessarily say yes to every invitation. I used to be completely loyal, and didn't even look at other men when I was with someone. Now, I make sure the guy is aware that he is not my only option. During the activity portion of a date last night, while my date was away for a few minutes, this other guy started lightly flirting with me. I didn't overtly flirt, but I wasn't nearly as demure with him as I would have been in the past. And of course, my date was clearly all revved up by this, and came back with this attitude of "she's mine, dude". I do a lot of small things like this. Another one is that when we're together, I don't go out of my way to keep the conversation rolling -- something I used to do. Now, I let him do more of the work of coming up with things to talk about, ask me questions, etc. I wish I could just totally relax and do what comes naturally -- but that doesn't seem to get me anywhere.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 When we started our relationship, he'd told me that I was a good girlfriend and that I was unlike any of the girls he'd ever met because of my values. I always get this, too. They tell me they have never been treated so well, and never thought they could. And they seem to hang on for years to the memory of how good it was to be treated so well. Almost every guy I had a relationship with is still in contact with me, and has this kind of "one that got away" attitude about me. One of them even e-mailed me late at night to say happy birthday while he was on vacation with his fiance! (I found that very strange, and a bad sign for his relationship.)
Woggle Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Niceness works against men a whole lot more. I don't know any man who does not want a woman that treats him well.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 One last thing, a book recommendation: Why Men Marry Bitches. I need to re-read this.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I totally disagree with this. If another man notices me or tries to flirt when I'm with my SO, then I totally shut them down. My BF notices the attention - but he also appreciates my reaction. He knows I'm desirable, but also that I'm totally his. He might make mention later how someone thought I was "hot" and be happy about it. Making him feel insecure or doubt my loyalty is wrong, IMHO. I would have agreed with you before. But what I was doing before (being sweet, loving, and loyal) was not working, so I need to try something else. Now I would rather err on the side of being a little "bad girl" and keeping him interested than being a "good girl" and having him take me for granted.
Woggle Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Also as long as you know how to not be a doormat niceness can actually work as a great filter. I ask the women here the same question I ask men. Why do you even want a man that prefers a bitch? Is that really who you want to be with?
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