TaraMaiden Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Yeah. You have to 'search'. But men like you are self-evident. No need to go looking for you, you pop up like some festering boil..... That's another one, Dusk....
TaraMaiden Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 or like MarsVodka saying something bad about every single woman on the planet. Just as dumb, stupid, bigotted, unreasonable, blinkered and ignorant. Every time you open your mouth, "I'm stupid" comes out.
Dusk1983 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Coming from a woman, it means jack..... It's like a Muslim saying something bad about a Jew.... Mods, please ban this cretin.
sally4sara Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 There's always more to the story with claims like this. If men were doing something extremely strenuous and dangerous for 3-4 hours a day, and women were tending the children during the 16 hours a day that the children are awake, well there you have it, women do 80% of the "work." Bet if you went to that tribe, you'd see a bunch of dudes limping around with arms and legs that had been gnawed off and gored by wild animals or rotted off by bug poison and army ant bites, and happy, smiling women and children without any such maimings. I saw some movie recently where this little new guinea dude climbed up a 150 ft tree right into a GIGANTIC bee's nest with only a loincloth just to get a honeycomb for his wife. Zthose bees were stinging the living hell out of him and he's just smiling away because he knows that honeycomb's gonna get him some hairy Papua leg and some peace and quiet for a day or two until she wants some more 150 ft tall tree honey. God knows how that poor, poor noble woman stands being oppressed like that smug little patriarch. You're onto something. We were more egalitarian as a hunter gatherer society. No one worked 16 hour days. Our nutrition was better and women had a more valued role within their tribe because they brought in the majority of food. The children had many many parents so many many people shared the child care. No knowledge of which man's seed contributed. It could have been any of them. All the children were important equally but none of them were as important as the adults. Food and sex were everday parts of a tribes R&R. We didn't become short and ill of health till agriculture replaced hunting and gathering; our diet went from eclectic and varied to one or two grains and scraps of meat because we stopped following the food. It wasn't till the industrial era that we could bring in enough food to gain our height and health back. Agriculture was the worst thing that ever happened to us and this planet. It brought us war, famine, patriarchy, slavery, theft, disease, greed, and over population. Now we get upset over the ease in showing affection to others and think we own everything even each other. Why do women get mad at men? Because of agriculture. You took our jobs away from us with the plow.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 I don't blame women for treating me badly. I blame myself for letting them. This is actually a very refreshing viewpoint and I applaud you for being honest about it. Men who let women walk all over them are the authors of their own misfortune (just like women who stay in abusive relationships). Ditto for women who go into porn. Most of them come from broken homes, which is, to a large extent, the responsibility of their mothers (who are either of poor moral character themselves or were exercising bad judgment by shacking up with the wrong kind of men). So if the "sisterhood" wants someone to blame for the fact that some women are "exploited" by the porn industry, they should start by looking in the mirror.
Els Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Ditto for women who go into porn. Most of them come from broken homes, which is, to a large extent, the responsibility of their mothers (who are either of poor moral character themselves or were exercising bad judgment by shacking up with the wrong kind of men). So if the "sisterhood" wants someone to blame for the fact that some women are "exploited" by the porn industry, they should start by looking in the mirror. There is certainly not just one gender to blame for the current issues existing with regards to porn.
Author Woggle Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 Read that back. Men decided, in their infinite grace, to deign to help women get more rights - like some kind of reward for good behaviour - but instead of undying appreciation for the favour (at finally not being property after hundreds of years?) women had the temerity to turn around and bite the hand that feeds them. Do you know what you're describing? A child. Misandrist blogs like that only exist because of men like you posting misogynistic rubbish on forums like this, naturally and without even thinking. I'm a man by the way. You're a masculinist PR disaster. You are blaming men for views expressed by this blog. Why not just condemn both? You can also say that misogynists posting is a result of blogs like this. I know I don't feel all loving towards women.
whichwayisup Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 The stuff posted on that blog is just as bad as the worst misogynists you can find on here. I truly do hope this is not how most women feel but when you read stuff like this it makes me wonder. Read my post. #40. I truly am interested in getting over my bitterness against the opposite sex but when I see blogs like this where some women just outright embrace their hatred and have no interest in getting better it makes me wonder what is the point. If you are truly wanting to get over your bitterness, you need to, no HAVE to, avoid those types of site. Just stop reading that type of stuff! You're digging your own grave by looking that crap up, Wogs! I can't remember how I found it but I have been looking it for a while. I even extended the olive branch once saying that I am trying to get over my own bitterness from abusive situations and we need to end the gender hatred and before the post was taken down I got ripped apart. People were saying that they wish women had more guts to do what my ex and my mother did and that it was payback for every woman that was abused. How am I supposed to feel after reading stuff like that? See how reading it sets you off? Brings up bad and painful memories for you? Stop torchering yourself!! Don't go on those sites! When I read this and women's reaction to that woman who threw her husband's penis in the meat grinder I wonder why I even bother trying to get over my bitterness. That woman was and IS a wack-job. If you are basing THAT on the average woman, then that's your own doing.
Author Woggle Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 I have been told on this board by several women that I have much in common with women that have been abused and instead of thinking of it in terms of gender I should find common ground with them. I tried to do just that and they let me know in no uncertain terms that are is no common ground and I am the enemy.
TaraMaiden Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Name and shame, Woggle, give links. I'd like to see that for myself. I for one would condemn them as heavily prejudiced, and deplore anyone or anything that is as judgemental as that. Really.
Author Woggle Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 Name and shame, Woggle, give links. I'd like to see that for myself. I for one would condemn them as heavily prejudiced, and deplore anyone or anything that is as judgemental as that. Really. They deleted my posts but there are posts from women with sons openly calling for men to be killed off. How can a woman with a son think that way?
whichwayisup Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 See? You're doing it in this thread, and completely ignoring/not acknowledging the few people, myself included, who are telling you stay off those sites and asking what good it does considering you're trying to change? You know by checking out those sites it feeds you and makes you feel bad, reacting and soon doubting why your wife loves you and how you still can't trust her 100%.
musemaj11 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 You're onto something. We were more egalitarian as a hunter gatherer society. No one worked 16 hour days. Our nutrition was better and women had a more valued role within their tribe because they brought in the majority of food. The children had many many parents so many many people shared the child care. No knowledge of which man's seed contributed. It could have been any of them. All the children were important equally but none of them were as important as the adults. Food and sex were everday parts of a tribes R&R. We didn't become short and ill of health till agriculture replaced hunting and gathering; our diet went from eclectic and varied to one or two grains and scraps of meat because we stopped following the food. It wasn't till the industrial era that we could bring in enough food to gain our height and health back. Yup the concept of women doing nothing but caring for the children at home is a modern phenomenon. Even after the arrival of agriculture, men still needed women to help them working the fields and tending the livestock more than ever. The truth is the more developed and prosperous a society gets, the lazier the women become.
sally4sara Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Sure, technology can be a two edged sword, but no human being alive today could come close to even imagining how horrible human life was before agriculture. You have a right to your opinion, but nothing in my post was intended to say we should return to some preagricultural state. The desire to believe life is better now is the only thing keeping us going. What would we do if every day we lived on this planet, we knew full well it was just a further descent into a lower quality of life where all our choices would only seem to be what we want for how completely we've swallowed the facade? We'd go mad. So we cling to this idea that all advancement is towards a better life. Its not.
Pyro Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I give Woggle credit for having passion in life. It's too bad that he is wasting it on going out of his way to search for opinions that validate his fears in life. Accept it and get over it. Some women are evil and everyone is aware of that. Get over it and try to enjoy life before you die.
frenchiefun Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for the laughs, so glad I don't have to listen to that garbage any more. My favorite from the comments to that blog: women do 2/3 of the world's work, receive 10% of the income and own 1% of the means of production. Hilarious. Where do they come up with this stuff? They do so much harm to their credibility with all the bad science and bogus stats. Thank god for the internet, because in the 90s, this stuff was still broadcast on the nightly news as being objective reporting, and the internet has put a big chill on lots of that. And what you find on the internet is ALWAYS accurate and true, huh dasein? Talk about credibility...
Taramere Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I have been told on this board by several women that I have much in common with women that have been abused and instead of thinking of it in terms of gender I should find common ground with them. I tried to do just that and they let me know in no uncertain terms that are is no common ground and I am the enemy. It takes a lot of patience and discipline for X to spend any time trying to reason with Y who has a prejudice against them. If that patience isn't coupled with a fairly thick skin and some sort of enjoyment of the challenge, then eventually you're going to end up feeling frustrated and victimised for having wasted so much time As you say, they have similar issues to you. Having not learned to escape from feeling victimised by the opposite sex, it's unlikely that either you or they possess the patience and thick skin for any reasonable discussion to ensue. It can't happen unless one person opts for stepping back from the drama, takes the adult position, and is able to stay there despite all kinds of bait for them to take the persecutor/victim/rescuer role. That can be a very taxing thing to do, and I doubt anybody (other than the occasional saintly figure) can do it all the time. I don't see that anybody should be required to adhere to endlessly strong and patient adult role, in the face of all kinds of provocation from somebody who loathes who and what they are, unless a) they feel certain it benefits their own personal development b) they derive some personal satisfaction from being in that role c) they have a legal duty to play responsible adult to the other person's dramatic child d) they're being financially rewarded for their skill in that role. What would be the reward for you in going to the "I hate men" site and attempting to reason/bond with them? Edited July 16, 2011 by Taramere
cheergirl Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 this whole thing makes me sad... Why the need for such spitefulness, unkindness and bitchiness. Woggle, I am so sorry for how you feel. I hope you find some nice lady to spend your time with.. Not all women are like this... I think a lot of the women here are a bit warped... Seriously... There is a underlying misandry in an overwhelming number of posts and threads by women. I see it all the time... and it's heartbreaking, how can any relationship work if there is basic disrespect from the start, and that's what I see. I see it, I recognise it, and I hate it. It's as wrong as men being disrespectful to women on the basis of sex. Which I have to say, in my experience is a whole lot more common nowadays... I genuinely feel sorry for men today. It's like their natural "way" has been eroded, minimised. Many are struggling, some become angry, bitter, hopeless... It breaks my heart. the thing is I think many women are their own worst enemies. If we could just be honest with what/who we are and determine to be better to each other, everyone would be happier, the children too... There is no need to insult belittle each other, but I see that all the time too. women do it so freely to the men here, it's really disgusting. the men who pop up and say nasty things I think are angry and doing it to get a reaction. But there is a generalised sense of feminine superiority. I see dispensed to the men here ; it is both misplaced and self-defeating. I have a beautiful wonderful strong son, and as God as my witness he will never get involved with one of these emasculating, unappreciative unhappy women. Not because he couldn't "handle" them, more a case of: why would he want to spend his time with someone who cannot handle herself? Who cannot be kind, polite, gentle, caring,well, just "nice". He'd run a mile. My daughter will never be horrible to her husband I'm pretty confident. She is a very strong young woman, but understands compassion and respect works both ways. Somewhere along the line a lot of women here and in the US seem to have lost sight of that fact. I have had great men in my life and not-so-great ones. Some weak, some strong, some admirable, some pathetic. Yet in my experience, their default response is to care for me and put me and other weaker people before themselves. I am extremely grateful for this. I fear for the younger generation. They have not seen good examples of working heterosexual relationships. the whole thing is heartbreaking... I am not anti-woman, I am anti-traditional feminist. Its roots lie in mistrust, disrespect, and yes, hatred of men... It is morally bankrupt.
rafallus Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 The desire to believe life is better now is the only thing keeping us going. What would we do if every day we lived on this planet, we knew full well it was just a further descent into a lower quality of life where all our choices would only seem to be what we want for how completely we've swallowed the facade? We'd go mad. So we cling to this idea that all advancement is towards a better life. Its not. One of the more positive things to recently be seen on TV.
Author Woggle Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 this whole thing makes me sad... Why the need for such spitefulness, unkindness and bitchiness. Woggle, I am so sorry for how you feel. I hope you find some nice lady to spend your time with.. Not all women are like this... I think a lot of the women here are a bit warped... Seriously... There is a underlying misandry in an overwhelming number of posts and threads by women. I see it all the time... and it's heartbreaking, how can any relationship work if there is basic disrespect from the start, and that's what I see. I see it, I recognise it, and I hate it. It's as wrong as men being disrespectful to women on the basis of sex. Which I have to say, in my experience is a whole lot more common nowadays... I genuinely feel sorry for men today. It's like their natural "way" has been eroded, minimised. Many are struggling, some become angry, bitter, hopeless... It breaks my heart. the thing is I think many women are their own worst enemies. If we could just be honest with what/who we are and determine to be better to each other, everyone would be happier, the children too... There is no need to insult belittle each other, but I see that all the time too. women do it so freely to the men here, it's really disgusting. the men who pop up and say nasty things I think are angry and doing it to get a reaction. But there is a generalised sense of feminine superiority. I see dispensed to the men here ; it is both misplaced and self-defeating. I have a beautiful wonderful strong son, and as God as my witness he will never get involved with one of these emasculating, unappreciative unhappy women. Not because he couldn't "handle" them, more a case of: why would he want to spend his time with someone who cannot handle herself? Who cannot be kind, polite, gentle, caring,well, just "nice". He'd run a mile. My daughter will never be horrible to her husband I'm pretty confident. She is a very strong young woman, but understands compassion and respect works both ways. Somewhere along the line a lot of women here and in the US seem to have lost sight of that fact. I have had great men in my life and not-so-great ones. Some weak, some strong, some admirable, some pathetic. Yet in my experience, their default response is to care for me and put me and other weaker people before themselves. I am extremely grateful for this. I fear for the younger generation. They have not seen good examples of working heterosexual relationships. the whole thing is heartbreaking... I am not anti-woman, I am anti-traditional feminist. Its roots lie in mistrust, disrespect, and yes, hatred of men... It is morally bankrupt. It is so refreshing to see a woman post this. I try so hard to get over this bitterness because I know hatred never does anybody good but when I hit this wall of misandry my heart just hardens. Despite my feelings at times I have never abused a woman, cheated on a woman and or any of that. I treat my female colleagues work with the utmost respect that I would treat any man but at the end of the day a good number of them simply hate my guts simply because I was born with a penis. I still refuse to cheer on men who mistreat women unlike many misandrists who turn women who wrong men into heroes because wrong is wrong. I will never stoop to that level but unless I know a woman well it is always in the back of my head if she is really a man hater or not. Do people think I actually enjoy feeling this way?
sally4sara Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 One of the more positive things to recently be seen on TV. Why compare agricultural societies to older agricultural societies? Its the same sickness. I'm talking about how much worse our lives are now than BEFORE agriculture. We didn't live on top of each other, warring over crowded, diseased filth trying to steal from and control each other. No gender war because religion had not given us guilt about getting laid Consider how many people die of starvation despite how quickly the issues could be solved with mass botanical preserves and crickets as cattle instead of cows.
Author Woggle Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 So you want to eat crickets instead of beef?
rafallus Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Why compare agricultural societies to older agricultural societies? Its the same sickness. I'm talking about how much worse our lives are now than BEFORE agriculture. We didn't live on top of each other, warring over crowded, diseased filth trying to steal from and control each other. No gender war because religion had not given us guilt about getting laid Consider how many people die of starvation despite how quickly the issues could be solved with mass botanical preserves and crickets as cattle instead of cows. Oh really? Wars been around since like what? Forever? Do I really need to give examples of wars throughout documented history since ancient times? I definitely don't think so. And consider, how many more (percentage wise, are you sure you take into account that global population is growing? Maybe that fact rings a bell on its very own?) people died in past times. Spanish Flu? Great leap forward in China? Actually, both are accounted by drastic decline for several years in overall growing trend. As for pandemics, compare, how many people died due to Black Death and Spanish Flu, and how many died due to some BS swine/pig flu, even taking higher global population into account. WHO doesn't **** around with quarantine measures, when transport lines become closed and bans on food import/export ensue. Food processing becomes more and more efficient (they better be, because, yet again, population is growing, do you think medieval ways of making food would have any chance in the face of six billions people worldwide? Me neither), so does health care. Even African country are starting to catch up (political situation is quite different story). Religions didn't give you guilt about getting laid? Hmmm, how about checking out, when biggest world religions were founded in the first place (hint: slightly older than Scientology). As for methods, how about comparing use of, say, chastity belts, now and then? Gender wars? How about witch hunting prevalent in past times, lovely habit - someone accuses you, and you have the chance of being incinerated (still happens today, but where exactly? Easy read gives you basic answers). Do consider also, what kind of people get into gender wars today. Do you see millions of opressed women (or men, depending which side you ask) in the malls, living in daily terror of being burned as witch (or castrated, if men)? Or maybe it's just a bunch or bitter people (or trolls) over internet? Technological and cultural progress is in fact improving life standard, and it's pretty ridiculous to think otherwise. Edited July 17, 2011 by rafallus
cheergirl Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 It is so refreshing to see a woman post this. I try so hard to get over this bitterness because I know hatred never does anybody good but when I hit this wall of misandry my heart just hardens. Despite my feelings at times I have never abused a woman, cheated on a woman and or any of that. I treat my female colleagues work with the utmost respect that I would treat any man but at the end of the day a good number of them simply hate my guts simply because I was born with a penis. I still refuse to cheer on men who mistreat women unlike many misandrists who turn women who wrong men into heroes because wrong is wrong. I will never stoop to that level but unless I know a woman well it is always in the back of my head if she is really a man hater or not. Do people think I actually enjoy feeling this way? I am sure you don't; hence your post... Women hating any man born since the 50s is the same as hating any white person since the 50s for slavery and discrimination of black people in the US. I actually feel quite sorry for men born into this (Western, sorry I'm talking about the US more than other places, the rabid feminist ideology seems to have done the most damage there...) world which has changed so drastically, but blames its history on those who weren't even born when it started! I think your attitude is fair, that's what i try to be. I don't blame men for the way things are. we are all individuals. I try to respect everyone. My personal rant against against the blatant misandry cloaked under the guise of feminism is that, the hatred of men is based on a jealousy of men. A desire to control and displace. If feminism really was about empowering women, it would celebrate women: the traditional roles of women as well as the choice to work outside the home and equality... Too often, it is the rejection/devaluation of traditional female roles; carer, nuturer, mother, homemaker that come most viciously under fire from trad. feminists. Trad fem glorifies taking/having power over others, aggression, working outside the home competitiveness, qualities seen as masculine. It pushes to acquire these things whilst constantly complaining, and ridicules those who don't join in... It makes me laugh, trad. feminist hate women who disagree with themmore than any man I've ever met. They say women who don't want to do what they want are deluded, disempowered, silly and weak, all sorts of insults... american women comparing themselves with women in the third world is a joke. Those women have some legitimate issues. We have more choice in our life destiny than at any other time in history because we can now control our fertility. But instead of this improving the quality of life for everyone, everyone seems more unhappy. If it were really about empowering women, TF would glorify the things we/our mothers, grandmothers and their grandmothers have been doing for years. Cooking, cleaning, taking care of babies, families and older folks. Because at the end of the day, we STILL HAVE TO DO IT... Now we just have to work outside the home as well... Having it all? You're having a laugh...
Author Woggle Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 I have no problems with feminism because I support most of it's aims. I am pro-choice and I even support passing the ERA but the discourse has become hijacked by extremist manhaters and the rational voices have been drowned out. My wife has been called a stepford wife because she won't cheat on me. A faithful woman is now considered a stepford wife.
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