Men that want to date broken women...

[D-Lish]

This is true.

 

I'm a very honest person and a nice person and I tend to be gullible as well in comparison to the average woman and I get predatory men hitting on me occasionally. They can also sense that I'll never cuss them out or directly say anything super cruel to make them leave me alone and that I can be a push over sometimes.

 

But I've gotten better at recognizing the predatory men from the non-predatory and she needs to learn this lesson on her own. The OP can warn her that a certain man is behaving that way, but can't protect her.

 

That's the problem- I can repeatedly tell her over and over what's actually going on, but she doesn't listen. Then she comes back and says "oh- you were right" and cries on my shoulder.

 

I love her, but she has no insight whatsoever.

 

In regards to taking her to a pub- I didn't. We were actually all out to lunch together (including her bf)- and he said he had to go. He had the break up talk with her and dropped her back off at the pub. So she basically came back on her own volition.... Then got hammered and bawled her eyes out.

[Tybalt]

I do a lot of reading here, but don't post all that much. I've read a lot of what you've posted, D-Lish, and I have to say you are one of the most balanced, thoughtful, and considered people on this forum. I agree that you are strong and that has been my complaint about some of the men I've dated, that they aren't as strong and have trouble dealing with the fact that I am. The thing is, I have had to be. I'm not by nature a hardened and impenetrable wall of defenses, though it would be easy to be this way given my experiences. Like you I would love to be in a partnership where sometimes, I can lean a little emotionally on my boyfriend/SO. It's finding the balance where I'm letting someone emotionally support me in certain ways, I'm managing my own problems, but not coming across as too needy, that is difficult for me.

 

The main problems I see with the "wounded bird" scenario are that first off, the wounded person may not make the best choice in a partner as they desperately seek someone to repair them. Secondly, sooner or later, that kind of dynamic usually backfires. Either the wounded person grows stronger and no longer needs the accustomed support level, or the other person becomes drained by the bottomless sieve of needs and burns out. Then, like your friend, the wounded bird is again wounded and seeking comfort from a new support person. It's a sad cycle.

 

I don't know what the answer is, or I suppose I'd be in a LTR without the internal struggle over "how much" to lean on someone. My current relationship is only 5 weeks old, I'm going through some things, and I'm not even sure how much to share. I don't want to seem negative or needy. I'd never cry over an ex to a new partner; that's way over the top for me, but I'd like to see things evolve to a point where I can be upset or flail a bit over the challenges of life and not have it cause issues in the relationship or insecurities within myself.

[zengirl]

Therapize, lol. I like it. I honestly couldn't say why. Maybe it's because I think that because they have issues, they'll be less apt to judge me?

 

It's something to think about. With my recent ex he had a lot of "sad stories" about being cheated on and left by his ex's- and that endeared me to him, I wanted to be a great gf to him because he'd had unfortunate experiences with women in the past.

 

It turns out that he had these unfortunate experiences because he obviously wasn't able to emotionally attach himself to any of these women. I didn't see that until it was too late.

 

First of all, everyone has some issues---in terms of being judged and having flaws, no one is perfect, and I don't think there would be a large % of men on the planet who would find your issues (as they've been described) insurmountable or problematic or judge-worthy. Some people will always judge, but it's such a small percentage, especially once you actually know a person. It's way easy to judge hypotheticals.

 

In terms of the ex, I've dated guys like that. Not as extreme as what happened to you, but a bit of "Everyone else who was with me was crappy" and I find it's just a bad idea to be the first decent GF, even if that stuff is true. It sounds like in the case of your ex, he perhaps was re-writing the story to enhance his victimhood, but one of my most "formative" relationships as an adult was with a guy who'd basically only dated abusive (verbally) and crazy women before me (and I'd met at least two of them when he was dating them, as we were in the same social circle, so I know it was pretty much all true). It was lucky that I had some stuff to learn then as well and was younger, because there's no way --- no matter how compatible --- we could've worked out, even though he was super proactive in going to therapy and getting his **** together. He had to experience at least one solid relationship first. We had a good relationship, but it was marred with needless drama. Now, he's married and happy. The funny thing is (and his WIFE, who happens to be a friend of mine, actually told me this, as had he) a lot of people have basically said -- and I agree with it -- that we totally could've worked out at different times. Not that we have anything unrequited for each other. We killed the crap out of whatever spark there was, and it died a long time ago. And he's totally right for my friend who he married. But she was the third nice girl he dated.

 

I picked a few more like that. In my case, it was because I really thought my step-father was a cool guy and he has a really awful Dear John divorce story but married my Mom happily. What really changed my mind was learning he'd had two girlfriends in between (and 5 years). I didn't realize that because my Mom actually met and moved in with him about a year after my parents divorced, so I just assumed his moving on was just as fast. I think guys take longer to get over these emotional hurts for some reason. Women are more emotionally resilient. Likely socialization.

 

Though, like I said, that guy sounds a bit like he was revising his own history. It's a trend I'm particularly not fond of.

Edited August 2, 2011 by zengirl

[Lovelybird]

Here is my problem- I present as confident- but on the inside I am needy.

Men are always attracted to my acting- and then disappointed when they get to know me.

Needy isn't a problem unless it is very extreme like Nexus One said. I think every woman is needy from time to time.

 

It is your fear of being needy the problem. Because you put up walls to prevent other men seeing the real you, lack of vulneblility. maybe man experience you as hard shell? because of your fear, you don't let men know your needs, so you take care of theirs. men who are capable of intimacy and genuinly want you are happy to take care of your needs and feel like your hero. and this will be a good filter to filter out unfit men.

 

Somewhere in your heart, you think men's needs are more important than yours. and this belief only benefit those men who are self-centered, and incapable of taking care of your needs. love is taking and giving

[JHS]

Either they see weakness and they want to take advantage...or they see damsel in distress and they want to save/comfort her.

 

Either way, I hope she told them to buzz off. Not what she needs right now.

I don't have a desire to date broken women but here's my two cents: I don't see it as predatory so much as a, "Hey, I'm a nice guy, give me a chance so you can see we're not all bad" attitude.

[alphamale]

First of all, everyone has some issues---

ain't that the truth sister

[D-Lish]

I do a lot of reading here, but don't post all that much. I've read a lot of what you've posted, D-Lish, and I have to say you are one of the most balanced, thoughtful, and considered people on this forum. I agree that you are strong and that has been my complaint about some of the men I've dated, that they aren't as strong and have trouble dealing with the fact that I am. The thing is, I have had to be. I'm not by nature a hardened and impenetrable wall of defenses, though it would be easy to be this way given my experiences. Like you I would love to be in a partnership where sometimes, I can lean a little emotionally on my boyfriend/SO. It's finding the balance where I'm letting someone emotionally support me in certain ways, I'm managing my own problems, but not coming across as too needy, that is difficult for me.

 

The main problems I see with the "wounded bird" scenario are that first off, the wounded person may not make the best choice in a partner as they desperately seek someone to repair them. Secondly, sooner or later, that kind of dynamic usually backfires. Either the wounded person grows stronger and no longer needs the accustomed support level, or the other person becomes drained by the bottomless sieve of needs and burns out. Then, like your friend, the wounded bird is again wounded and seeking comfort from a new support person. It's a sad cycle.

 

I don't know what the answer is, or I suppose I'd be in a LTR without the internal struggle over "how much" to lean on someone. My current relationship is only 5 weeks old, I'm going through some things, and I'm not even sure how much to share. I don't want to seem negative or needy. I'd never cry over an ex to a new partner; that's way over the top for me, but I'd like to see things evolve to a point where I can be upset or flail a bit over the challenges of life and not have it cause issues in the relationship or insecurities within myself.

 

The true test of any new relationship will come when you experience your first little crisis. Unfortunately for me- my crisis was a big one. But you sure get to know whom you are dealing with when you genuinely need someone.

 

I kick myself over being needy when I was pregnant, but for crying out loud- I did him to lean on. I was almost 4 months, and we barely talked about it, necause he never knew what to say or how to react to me when I brought it up.

 

You're right about my friend though. That has been her sad cycle in life. She is actually dating someone new now, so I am not seeing her or hearing from her as much because she's of course leaning on her new "bf"... Yes, very sad.

 

I hope things work our with your new guy:)

[D-Lish]

First of all, everyone has some issues---in terms of being judged and having flaws, no one is perfect, and I don't think there would be a large % of men on the planet who would find your issues (as they've been described) insurmountable or problematic or judge-worthy. Some people will always judge, but it's such a small percentage, especially once you actually know a person. It's way easy to judge hypotheticals.

 

In terms of the ex, I've dated guys like that. Not as extreme as what happened to you, but a bit of "Everyone else who was with me was crappy" and I find it's just a bad idea to be the first decent GF, even if that stuff is true. It sounds like in the case of your ex, he perhaps was re-writing the story to enhance his victimhood, but one of my most "formative" relationships as an adult was with a guy who'd basically only dated abusive (verbally) and crazy women before me (and I'd met at least two of them when he was dating them, as we were in the same social circle, so I know it was pretty much all true). It was lucky that I had some stuff to learn then as well and was younger, because there's no way --- no matter how compatible --- we could've worked out, even though he was super proactive in going to therapy and getting his **** together. He had to experience at least one solid relationship first. We had a good relationship, but it was marred with needless drama. Now, he's married and happy. The funny thing is (and his WIFE, who happens to be a friend of mine, actually told me this, as had he) a lot of people have basically said -- and I agree with it -- that we totally could've worked out at different times. Not that we have anything unrequited for each other. We killed the crap out of whatever spark there was, and it died a long time ago. And he's totally right for my friend who he married. But she was the third nice girl he dated.

 

I picked a few more like that. In my case, it was because I really thought my step-father was a cool guy and he has a really awful Dear John divorce story but married my Mom happily. What really changed my mind was learning he'd had two girlfriends in between (and 5 years). I didn't realize that because my Mom actually met and moved in with him about a year after my parents divorced, so I just assumed his moving on was just as fast. I think guys take longer to get over these emotional hurts for some reason. Women are more emotionally resilient. Likely socialization.

 

Though, like I said, that guy sounds a bit like he was revising his own history. It's a trend I'm particularly not fond of.

 

Well I caught him in a lot of inconsistencies near the end. He's claimed to have had a 5 year relationship and later mentioned it was only 2... And a 2 year relationship that lasted less than 9 months... The woman he dated with the daughter he claimed he didn't get to meet the daughter for 6 months- but later said they'd moved in together after 3 months (which he tried to do with me). I found this strange- that he'd even lie about the lengths of his relationships in the first place.

 

He is a very broken man though- something happened to him somewhere along the course of his life that has caused his extreme intimacy issues.

 

In many ways I'm just as broken as my friend (in terms of feeling so sad over my break up)- but I'd never present publically that way, ever. And like you, I'd like to find a guy that I can be vulnerable with. I never felt safe with my ex because I knew that he's see any of my vulnerabilities as weakness.

[D-Lish]

So, I met the new bf on Sunday... She brought him to our Sunday lunch meeting where 4 or 5 of us get together.

 

Can I just say... I DON'T GET IT. She's been telling me how wonderful her new guy is and how they are already on the verge of exchanging "I love you's".... (like a week into it???)

 

Yet, she's still talking to me about not being over her ex and creeping his facebook, crying because he changed his FB status to single finally.

 

Of course, during our lunch, she talked about her ex A LOT in front of the new guy... She even asked me "what should I do if he calls me?".... She did this in her last relationship about her old ex....

 

I don't get her, and I don't get the guy that is so enthusiastic about dating her when she's clearly still in love with her ex.

 

She's someone that can't be alone. She's been in one relationship after another since hitting puberty without taking any sort of break- but she goes into the next relationship broken and using her new bf as a therapist.

 

I let her have it last night. I told her if she cares at all about this new guy that she has to cease the ex talk- or let him go. I also told her I'm beyond frustrated with her asking for my advice over and over and never listening to anything I say. Our mutual friend told her the same thing.

 

But this guy- he was so passive... I was checking him out as she was lamenting about her ex and he was just looking off in the other direction like nothing "weird" was going on. Her old ex used to do this as well.

 

He's not bad looking at all either- I'd think he would be able to find a woman without this much baggage that cried on their first date over her ex...

[Woggle]

Some men have the need to be a rescuer and would not know what to do with a healthy woman.

[D-Lish]

Some men have the need to be a rescuer and would not know what to do with a healthy woman.

 

What's behind that in terms of the man that seeks these types of women? It's more than just having that white knight syndrome.

 

What would be so off about a guy that he couldn't handle a relationship with a healthy woman? What kind of man would sit there while his new gf lamented about missing her ex in front of him????

 

You had your issues and you are now married to a healthy woman...

[carhill]

What kind of man would sit there while his new gf lamented about missing her ex in front of him????

Until I met my exW, I thought that's how all women were. I didn't know anything different. It had generally been my life experience. If nothing else, she taught me the health of leaving the past in the past.

 

I never 'sought' such women, rather that's just how the process worked. Dozens to hundreds of data points. I struggle to think of any exceptions, save for the one who is pictured in one of my LS albums, but she was a grandmother already and had a lot of life experience and a healthy outlook on life.

[D-Lish]

Until I met my exW, I thought that's how all women were. I didn't know anything different. It had generally been my life experience. If nothing else, she taught me the health of leaving the past in the past.

 

I never 'sought' such women, rather that's just how the process worked. Dozens to hundreds of data points. I struggle to think of any exceptions, save for the one who is pictured in one of my LS albums, but she was a grandmother already and had a lot of life experience and a healthy outlook on life.

 

Really? We're not all like that. In my entire relationship with my ex- I only told him once when he asked that my exH cheated and got another woman pregnant. Only because he asked... Then, never mentioned again.

 

I can't tell you how many times I have pulled her aside with her last ex, and then with this new guy to tell her how inappropriate she is being, but she doesn't get it.

 

She was in a 5 year relationship and engaged- he dumped her and she took up with her recent ex ONE WEEK afterward. I don't know of one occasion I spent with the two of them where she didn't bring up her ex. She used to cry about her ex in front of him OFTEN....

 

I went off on her last night (via text, lol) in a way I have never done before.

[carhill]

Remember, I was a 'broken woman' magnet, so the results are not surprising. When a man presents a 'what the fµck do I care' persona, he doesn't get the 'woe is me and my loser ex' stories. When he presents the caring and compassionate persona, his PM box fills up with same, amongst other similar behaviors in real life.

 

Not coincidentally, broken women make lousy friends IME, at least platonic friends for a man.

[carhill]

Network glitch...double post

[Nexus One]

What's behind that in terms of the man that seeks these types of women? It's more than just having that white knight syndrome.

 

A woman that displays emotion and insecurities is less intimidating to approach for some guys. It takes a higher level of self-esteem/confidence to approach a woman that is known to have things together. So some guys with lower self-esteem might only go for "broken" women, as they only feel comfortable approaching and interacting with such women.

 

Personally I don't think crying over a broken wing is enough to keep a guy(white knight) interested during an LTR. Unless a different dynamic develops the guy might lose interest. A broken wing might draw in a white knight, but what happens once that white knight starts self-reflecting on why he is with that girl? Chances are he then starts planning an exit strategy.

[D-Lish]

Network glitch...double post

 

Well a magnet has 2 pulls. So you had something about you that made you the magnet, but you also embraced the collision;)

 

Why do you think that is. You're very insightful- I find it hard to believe that you put up with some of the stuff you've claimed to.

[D-Lish]

A woman that displays emotion and insecurities is less intimidating to approach for some guys. It takes a higher level of self-esteem/confidence to approach a woman that is known to have things together. So some guys with lower self-esteem might only go for "broken" women, as they only feel comfortable approaching and interacting with such women.

 

Personally I don't think crying over a broken wing is enough to keep a guy(white knight) interested during an LTR. Unless a different dynamic develops the guy might lose interest. A broken wing might draw in a white knight, but what happens once that white knight starts self-reflecting on why he is with that girl? Chances are he then starts planning an exit strategy.

 

Very well said. That's the theory I've chosen to embrace, but you were able to put into the words that make the most sense to me.

 

I know my gf lost her recent ex because she never stopped talking about her ex- and I think there was only so much he was willing to put up with. If you're insecure to begin with, there is only so much you'll be able to put up with before your pride finally kicks in.

 

She is now repeating the same pattern with a similar guy. He's quiet, shy (insecure).....

 

How many of you guys out there would ask for a second date with a girl that spent a good portion of your first date sobbing over her ex???

 

Be honest, I'm interested in hearing the answers.

[Dazdnconfuzed]

Dlish, from knowing your friend as long as you do, can you pick some of these that she has either said or her actions portrayed.

 

1. I will always be alone

2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.

3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.

5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.

6. I have no control of myself.

7. I can't discipline myself.

8. I don't really know what I want.

9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.

10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.

11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.

12. I will never get what I want.

13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.

14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.

15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.

16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.

17. Other people are evil and abuse you.

18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.

19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.

20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

 

I got this from this dude that writes jackandcoke's blog. I also believe your friend hasnt any coping mechanisms at all and something happened to her in her past that she hasnt told you about, very traumatic.

 

You are trying to use logic which exists in the real world and can be applied to everything, she I believe has made up her own reality to soothe something.

 

The best thing about making your own reality is you can change the rules as you go and its real in a sense of an illusion, but real to your friend. She will not get what you are telling her or notice her actions, logic doesnt exist in her newly formed reality.

 

She has probably said she has a real amazing connection with this new guy and he is nothing like the other ones. OH and he probably really understands her too, she created this false reality for him so ofcourse he really understands her, she is mirroring.

 

DLish - 2+2=4

Friend - 2+2=3 (It does in her new world and if you cant see that she cannot understand you)

[Woggle]

What's behind that in terms of the man that seeks these types of women? It's more than just having that white knight syndrome.

 

What would be so off about a guy that he couldn't handle a relationship with a healthy woman? What kind of man would sit there while his new gf lamented about missing her ex in front of him????

 

You had your issues and you are now married to a healthy woman...

 

Men hate feeling disposable to a woman and a broken woman makes a man feel needed and important in her life. If a woman already has a healthy life a man wonders what she needs him for. We live in age where many men feel like women have no use for us anymore so when we see a needy and broken woman it makes us feel like we have a purpose in her life.

[D-Lish]

Dlish, from knowing your friend as long as you do, can you pick some of these that she has either said or her actions portrayed.

 

1. I will always be alone

2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.

3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.

4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.

5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.

6. I have no control of myself.

7. I can't discipline myself.

8. I don't really know what I want.

9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.

10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.

11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.

12. I will never get what I want.

13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.

14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.

15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.

16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.

17. Other people are evil and abuse you.

18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.

19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.

20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

 

I got this from this dude that writes jackandcoke's blog. I also believe your friend hasnt any coping mechanisms at all and something happened to her in her past that she hasnt told you about, very traumatic.

 

You are trying to use logic which exists in the real world and can be applied to everything, she I believe has made up her own reality to soothe something.

 

The best thing about making your own reality is you can change the rules as you go and its real in a sense of an illusion, but real to your friend. She will not get what you are telling her or notice her actions, logic doesnt exist in her newly formed reality.

 

She has probably said she has a real amazing connection with this new guy and he is nothing like the other ones. OH and he probably really understands her too, she created this false reality for him so ofcourse he really understands her, she is mirroring.

 

DLish - 2+2=4

Friend - 2+2=3 (It does in her new world and if you cant see that she cannot understand you)

 

Well, I am older- like an older sister. I seriously don't think I've ever met anyone as naive as this girl. When it comes to insight- there is nothing happening. All she wants is someone beside her... She's not going to choose a horrible guy- but she'll settle with less than she deserves.

[carhill]

Well a magnet has 2 pulls. So you had something about you that made you the magnet, but you also embraced the collision;)

 

Why do you think that is. You're very insightful- I find it hard to believe that you put up with some of the stuff you've claimed to.

Most of it was/is my socialization, both in the home and in the church, to treat people with kindness and decency. Also, due to that dynamic, I accepted a lot of bullying as a child and, as a result, developed a marked zero to kill perspective about dealing with aggressive people, which obviously doesn't go over well in a civilized society. That perspective was flawed and was addressed in MC. Prior, combining the kindness and decency part with the zero to kill part was a perfect recipe for 'accepting' the stuff like your young friend has undoubtedly dished out, like your recitations of her complaints/endless talk about her ex in front of her new beau. The psychologies are still there but tempered with healthier rules of engagement. You'll see the zero to kill come out when I sense bullying here on LS. I moderate it but I do recall inviting one particular guy to stop by anytime and have a go at me.

 

That pretty much explains my 'magnetism' in that realm and where that particular subset of potentials comes from. I've also had healthy romantic relationships and encounters, as well as a long list of valued friendships, but those really aren't germaine to your thread, so I talk about my experiences with broken women. If another person can relate to that path and perhaps be enlightened by it to make different choices, then the exposure was/is worth it, IMO.

 

Think about how you are in real life compared to the specifics of what you share on LS. Our text typed here is but a minute part of the totality of who we are, and it is a targeted part, focused on the issues at hand. It doesn't define us nor rule us, IMO.

 

Hope things work out

Edited August 10, 2011 by carhill

[D-Lish]

Think about how you are in real life compared to the specifics of what you share on LS. Our text typed here is but a minute part of the totality of who we are, and it is a targeted part, focused on the issues at hand. It doesn't define us nor rule us, IMO.

 

Hope things work out

 

I hope I didn't offend you- I feel like I did....

[carhill]

Absolutely not offended. I think it's important to understand the data points of the psychology of men who date broken women.

 

Unlike your friend's current beau, whom you describe as shy and quiet (insecure), at his age I was outgoing and friendly and happy about life. In fact, the young lady whom I met and pursued and later who would become a MW was a product of that outgoing and easy to know personality. I wouldn't know until far into the future about what 'broken' was and how she defined it, as one example. When one's love bank is full, one might opine, there are many looking to make withdrawls. I just perform more thorough credit checks now

[D-Lish]

Absolutely not offended. I think it's important to understand the data points of the psychology of men who date broken women.

 

Unlike your friend's current beau, whom you describe as shy and quiet (insecure), at his age I was outgoing and friendly and happy about life. In fact, the young lady whom I met and pursued and later who would become a MW was a product of that outgoing and easy to know personality. I wouldn't know until far into the future about what 'broken' was and how she defined it, as one example. When one's love bank is full, one might opine, there are many looking to make withdrawls. I just perform more thorough credit checks now

 

Well I admire you- because despite all those experiences, you seem like you've conquered your baggage in a way that most people are never going to be able to.

 

I don't think I've come across anyone as insightful as you on LS.