andyg99 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) I posted this in the break-up section but since it deals with an ex-wife I thought I’d like to hear what the folks in the divorce forum think about my situation. I’ve read through a few threads here and I must say this is a great and caring bunch of people here. BTW – in my thread on the break-up page I changed some details (dates, sex of the kids and number of kids) - maybe I was paranoid that on of the ex’s friends was one here and would recognize the situation, heck we’re all a little nuts in the first few days, but from now on the details will be as they really are… (I know this is really long so thanks in advance for those who read through it and provide feedback!) I’m 48, got married in ’89, our daughter was born in ’90, and that was followed by 2 sons in ’91 and ’93 (yeah, we wasted no time!). Anyway 3 little ones, building a career and eventually buying a home, we were both happy and busy parents. And I knew those first few years she loved me and I loved her. So right after we bought the home in ’94 things started to change, she became distant and the stress started to pile up. My commute was now about 3 hours daily as opposed to the half hour before we moved. Eventually towards the end of ’95 she tells me she is unhappy and wants to separate. Well to make this part of the story shorter I move out, find out there’s another guy and we get divorced in ’96. She re-marries (same guy) – I get an apartment back in the city where I work and really enjoy the single life for about 2 years (she’s stays and is about 90 minutes away), then I realize that I’m being a lousy father to my kids, I’m putting my “fun” ahead of their needs, yes I see them every weekend but I’m always pre-occupied with setting up the next date. So I do a 180, I make a promise to myself that I will be there 100% for my kids. I will raise them until they graduate high school and will only casually date women and not commit to anything – I let the few I did date from that time on know this upfront. My youngest graduated in June I and stayed true to this. I eventually got my finances back in order in 2000 and moved back near my ex to be closer to the kids. I bought a beautiful home and my kids who were now 10, 9 and 7 couldn’t have been happier to have dad that much closer. She has a new daughter at this time, born in ’99. At the time the girl turns 2 I let her come over and hang out with her brothers and sister on occasion (wife and I can be considered friends at this point – she apologized for what she did and I forgave her and told her how great it was that we get along). Now her daughter is pretty much coming over every weekend, it was not a problem with me, trust me on this. She became part of my family and I became like a second dad to her. So the ex and I become better and better friends over the years – and I eventually find out that she was miserable in the new marriage pretty much from the get go and her reason for leaving was money (this guy owned his own business and did ok I guess). Now all during this time I’m pulling for them to work things out for the sake of their little girl, my kids have long gotten over the split and are doing just fine. They sell their business in ’06, make a bunch of money and are set to retire. They make bad investments and fast forward to ’08 they’re pretty much broke. Add that to a bad marriage and that’s the recipe for another divorce. So they breakup in early ’10 and both are broke – her newest ex moves in with his brother and me being such a great guy (yes, sarcasm) let her and her daughter move in with me. I realize that in the past year or two I was developing feelings for her, especially since I knew her marriage was on the rocks – I was thinking that she is a different person than the one who cheated on me and wanted my family back together again. I let her know this before she moved in, she admitted she felt the same way and wanted to eventually start over with me. Since her divorce wasn’t even final we both agreed that she needed to get that over with before we could even consider a relationship. But I did make her agree to one thing, having myself gone through a stage where I needed to date a lot I let her know that if she got to that point it would be too weird with her dating under my roof – I’d understand it but she should let me know if that what she really wants, heck, don’t even let me know just say you need to be on your own and find your own place (all the time I assured her her daughter ALWAYS had a home with me no matter what) – we both agreed on this (at the time I thought, wow, what a difference than it was 15 years ago, we could discuss something like this and respect each other). So as the months go along I continue to respect her time dealing with the divorce, we go out together a lot, heck, we pretty much do everything together… I let her know how I feel, she does the same (we both say we love each other) – I do little things for her, flowers, cards, etc – just to let her know that I’m still respecting the situation but not going to pressure her to do anything before she is ready (divorce final). Now this is not all some kind of honeymoon phase here, in between the good times I see she is pretty much the same miserable person she always was – and I keep questioning myself “why do I want this?” It eventually got to the point of me not wanting to ask her to leave just because of the little girl (now 12). So I’m going through this weird “I love her but…” phase. I let her know that it’s becoming old being in this “roommate” situation and I would like to go one way or the other… she is committing in neither direction but still keeping me on a short leash and throwing me the occasional crumb (future plans together, etc.). So now it’s late June, she has been distant for weeks – I’m fed up and I’m on-line one morning a I see her account is still up, I see she has been on a dating site for about 3 months… this makes me a little nuts, I look at other sites she has visited and with a little Sherlock Holmes skills I find out she has met someone and is planning to fly out and see him over the 4th of July weekend. She had already told me she was driving north to hang out with a girlfriend… I call her at home, she doesn’t answer, I text her to call me and tell her it’s urgent, she calls and I tell her what I find and ask her to please find another place to live… she hangs up before I can say that last part. So I text her and let her know again to please find another place to live and she calls me yelling that she did nothing wrong and how can you kick (her daughter) out.. I let her know again that her daughter can stay, that she lied to me and didn’t respect the boundaries we both agreed to about seeing other people, I let her know again that when she felt she needed to go in this direction she should have respected me and left but chose to lead me on and lie to me. She and her daughter left on that day, exactly 2 weeks ago. So where am I now? Everyone in her family agreed that her daughter belongs with me and my ex isn’t stable enough for the situation (my family is on the East coast – we’re in CA). 2 days after she left her daughter came back home – she was frazzled by the situation but is doing ok now, her mom had zero contact with her for the first week (when she was one her trip to meet her latest knight in shining armor). The ex has since seen her but still zero contact with me. That’s ok – she crossed the boundary, lied and deceived and now she is facing the consequences. Her solution will be to find the next guy ASAP so she doesn’t have to sleep on her mom’s couch. I’m thinking she was shocked that I stood up to her and followed through – maybe she wasn’t, doesn’t matter, her loss… Anyway I’m doing well now, I’m prepared to keep her girl with me as long as it takes, I love her like my own. I did talk to her dad and he thanks me for taking her in and keeps saying he’ll get his at together and get his own place someday. Until then I know this girl is NOT my responsibility but it is my CHOICE to do the right thing and give her a home. Set boundaries folks and prepare to act when those boundaries are crossed, don’t be a doormat (I was letting her treat me like that), loving someone who doesn’t love you back really hurts –– it wasn’t easy telling her to leave but in the end I have my self-respect and dignity and her little girl is happy and safe with me. Sorry for the long post – I’d love to hear any comments. Thanks. Edited July 13, 2011 by andyg99 1
TroyNJ Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 That's one hell of a story Andy, you should be proud of how you handled yourself....I didn't do as well in the beginning but I'm good now...My X's son actually lives with me so we have that in common.
coolheadal Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Good it's hard but I've started doing that myself. Without the love there is no marriage. Just a big black hole in your life and you and her are surrounded by it. The hole is the missing Love you would have shared. But now you have see the light and moved on. I too will have to be in that position soon. I've made some bad mistakes being such a nice guy with a wife who's a control freak! Good listen learn for all men like me, just have to watch and see how your life is now then what it was when you first got marriage. Things change fast if you don't notice the changes. It could be too late in the end when you find out what's going on! 1
Author andyg99 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Posted July 13, 2011 That's one hell of a story Andy, you should be proud of how you handled yourself....I didn't do as well in the beginning but I'm good now...My X's son actually lives with me so we have that in common. Love the kid no matter what she does - I know you will do that! I'm doing well right now because I guess maybe in the back of my mind I was seeing who she really was over the past few months... even though my kids are all over 18 now I saw the tension between her and my sons and sadly looked past it because I was looking to get something from her (love) that, sadly, I don't think she knows how to give... my daughter is close to her and is sad she left, she says she loves us both and doesn't want to take sides - I agree with her and have not discussed it after the first day when I felt I had to explain why I asked her to leave. I've apologized to my 18 year old son for ignoring him and the fact that he didn't even want his mom moving in with us... there are legitimate issues with her and our boys and I know I messed up by assuming she was looking to make amends... My oldest son, 19 lives with his grandmother, he left a week after she moved in... I'm meeting him tonight to apologize to him also, I'll let him know what I told his brother - "I'm sorry for allowing her to get between us, it was my choice and a really bad one... my intentions were good but I should have asked her to leave a long time ago..."
Author andyg99 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Holy ____, that is quite the story. Your EX is a piece of work for sure. Good for you for caring about the kids first. You are a good guy. Forever set this ____ adrift and have NOTHING to do with her ever again. This certainly confirms some peoples theory that once a cheater always a cheater I suppose. Not that I agree with that, but it definitely applies some of the time. I would say that the 'once a cheater...' line applies most of the time... there is a very long thread here (surfer) that I have seen you in and in that thread there are tons of posts urging the OP that if you let her back she needs to actually do things to make amends for what she did and also she needs to agree to respect your boundaries... I'm glad I set that boundary about seeing other people, it was clear and as hard as it was to follow through I did it! the worst part was the first few days when I wasn't clear about what she would do with her little girl. When she came back home (the girl) it was like a huge weight was lifted.... and as the emotions subside I begin to see the facts, my ex is willing to abandon her own daughter so she can be "happy" with someone 1500 miles away.... I discussed it with my daughter (21) the day she left, I didn't bash the ex but told her the facts because I wanted her to know why I did it... towrds the end of the conversation my girl told me "dad, it's hard to say this but (little sister) would be better off with mom not in her life"... wow... how was I so blind? Edited July 13, 2011 by andyg99
Author andyg99 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 I met with my 19 year old last night - we had a good talk and he seemed relieved to say some things and get them off his chest... since my ex left my house she is with her mom (where my son is also)... he told me he doesn't hate her and she is trying to be close to him (he said it seemed scripted) but he thinks it's too little, too late - he has years of issues with her that he thinks needs to be worked through and basically he said in the two months before she takes off to her new life (1500 miles away) what's the point of trying to get close to her... So it seems that she will be leaving the state and leaving her 12 year old daughter behind, all 3 of my kids have pledged to help me give her the best life she can have and I will talk to a therapist and ask if maybe the girl could benfit from counseling (obviously a major abandonment issue)... Selfish people will step over anyone to get what they want... there has to be a word stronger than selfish to describe someone who would abandon a child in order to get what she wants....
ver13 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 You are doing the right thing my friend in more way's then one, I mean how many men can truly say that they have saved a childs life. Thank you for standing up and being counted some others wouldn't but you have and it's good to see.
Author andyg99 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 thank you - it's nice to hear that.... You are doing the right thing my friend in more way's then one, I mean how many men can truly say that they have saved a childs life. Thank you for standing up and being counted some others wouldn't but you have and it's good to see.
Steen719 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 All I can say is your ex-wife is an idiot to throw you away and your step-daughter is one fortunate girl to have you for a step-father.
GorillaTheater Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Andy, you are truly a stand-up guy. Your kids, your 4 kids, are very lucky to have you for a dad. Would you believe I'm a little misty-eyed due to this thread? 1
Author andyg99 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 All I can say is your ex-wife is an idiot to throw you away and your step-daughter is one fortunate girl to have you for a step-father. throwing me away is one thing - no matter how good I was to her I was burned before by her so I have to accept the fact that I knew she could have done this again, I was either too trusting or too naive... throwing away your own child is a whole different matter, for the life of me I can't imagine someone ever doing that.... thank you for taking the time to hear my story and giving feedback...
Author andyg99 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 Andy, you are truly a stand-up guy. Your kids, your 4 kids, are very lucky to have you for a dad. Would you believe I'm a little misty-eyed due to this thread? thanks for saying that... I'm lucky to have all 4 of them in my life.... do things happen for a reason? who knows but in the past couple of weeks somehow I keep thinking that me being a third parent to her little girl (since she was barely 2) has led up to this day... she is totally comfortable in our home - I think that will go a long way in helping her deal with the abandonment....
worldgonewrong Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 God bless you, Andy. You've got a heart as big as the universe.
dreamingoftigers Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 You have the female vote on this one LOL, so many of the guys on LS would think that impossible to get. It is wonderful to see a guy actually dedicated to his kids and not just when it is convenient.
Steen719 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 "...throwing away your own child is a whole different matter, for the life of me I can't imagine someone ever doing that...." As a mother, I can tell you that the only reason I can think of to leave my child would be if I was dying or if I did not leave, he would die. I, like you, cannot imagine that. Dreaming is right...you have the female vote!!
Author andyg99 Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 so after 2 1/2 weeks of no contact at all I saw her yesterday. She was picking up her daughter from my house for a day at the beach. I gave her her mail and told her that we have the little girl to think about and need to keep the lines of communication open and we don't need to act like we hate each other. Since she left we have been communicating about arrangements (pickups/dropoffs) through my older daughter - I don't want her in the middle so there is no reason we shouldn't act like adults here. Anyway she commented that I'm looking really good (been doing ALOT of running and working out) - I just stuck to the topic which was the little girl - she basically deferred all decisions to her ex (the most recent one). Seems like she is starting to detach from her daughter and getting ready for the move across country to live happily ever after with prince charming (ok, sarcasm mode off now!). So we end the conversation with her letting me know when she will get the rest of her stuff out of the house. About an hour later I get a text from her and she says that she could never ever hate me and she misses our conversations and texts to each other. My first reply was going to be - "what am I your f-n girlfriend?, go text and talk to your new BF, leave me alone you bitch" - but I'm glad I took the higher road, I was honest and basically just said "yeah, I miss that too but your heart is elsewhere now" and that was it. So I'm glad that my oldest won't be in the middle now - in fact there really will probably not be much need for anything but minimal contact as she is preparing to leave her life and child behind. When I looked at her yesterday she just looked sad and bitter, and I'm sure (if I wasn't so blind in the past) that she has always looked this way....
Sassygirl2 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Wow -I'm having a hard time believing a woman could abandon her child at the age of 12 (or any age for that matter). I have a 12 year old daughter and she needs me now, more than ever! You are a stand up guy, Andy.
debtman Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 andy, came over here from "You've Been Left...Analogy" and read your thread. Man, quite a story. You're doing a fabulous job dealing with this and your focus on your kids (all of them) is inspiring. Your ability to let your X's insanity roll off of you for the sake of your kids is a testament to your love for your kids. I feel I've done pretty well in my situation of being "centered" and remaining civil in the midst of her insanity and have really stayed focused on the kids above everything. I did have a question for you because its something I've been struggling with in my situation. I've been avoiding seeing OM since my W "ran off" with him. At first it was the fact that she "chose" him over me, but I got over that quickly because I realized that she's just not sure what she wants and is going to be an unhappy person no matter what situation she puts herself in until she really "finds" herself and figures out what she wants and is able to stand on her own. Now, it's more a matter of the fact that I really don't respect him (he tried to be my "friend" while he was dating my W, was telling me how hard his divorce was on him [he left his W and 2 kids after 13 years of marriage] and his kids and then turned around and told my W how she doesn't need to stay in an unhappy marriage) and, even more frustrating, is how much time he spends with my kids...more time than he spends with his own kids. My kids really seem to like him, which is good. And, other than the backstabbing and adultery, he seems like a nice enough person. My stbx's family met him a few weeks ago and, when I went to see them, they said he was "odd" and "quiet" but that he seemed to be nice to her and the kids. Anyway, when I drop off the kids and his car is there, I drop them in the driveway and leave, same at pick up. He stays up in the house, out of sight, and sometimes, it takes 30 minutes or so to do the switch and "catch up" on schedules, kids news, etc. So, how long did it take for you to be "alright" being around OM? Any advice on that? I try to tell myself that I should thank him for taking her away so I don't have to be with a depressed cheater and that I should feel sorry for him because he will end up in the same sort of relationship with her that I had because nothing has changed on her end. But, whenever one of the kids accidentally calls me his name or tells me about something he does with them, jokes he tells them, etc. I find myself getting upset/jealous... Maybe it's just a matter of time, but it's been 9 months and I don't feel I'm any closer to self-resolution. Thanks, Good luck and keep posting!
Author andyg99 Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 comments below in BOLD andy, came over here from "You've Been Left...Analogy" and read your thread. Man, quite a story. You're doing a fabulous job dealing with this and your focus on your kids (all of them) is inspiring. Your ability to let your X's insanity roll off of you for the sake of your kids is a testament to your love for your kids. thank you for saying that So, how long did it take for you to be "alright" being around OM? Any advice on that? I try to tell myself that I should thank him for taking her away so I don't have to be with a depressed cheater and that I should feel sorry for him because he will end up in the same sort of relationship with her that I had because nothing has changed on her end. But, whenever one of the kids accidentally calls me his name or tells me about something he does with them, jokes he tells them, etc. I find myself getting upset/jealous... I can totally relate to your story - in my case after about 6 months I could have met him and been ok - it wasn't until 3 years later that I met him, by then they were married and she was pregnant with the girl who I am now taking care of... sometimes I would pick up the kids at her moms and one day her mom confessed that my ex wove such a thread of lies that she was afraid I would say things to screw her life up. Remember one thing, your situation is fairly new. Your ex has built something with someone built on lies and deceit. Be careful of her trying to get back into your life someday. I hope my story here has served as an example of what can happen when a cheater tries to open your door again. I opened that door and it wasn't good - folks if you do ever open that door again please set boundaries, I'm at least glad I did that, she crossed it and I followed through. I feel good about myself for looking out for me for once! Maybe it's just a matter of time, but it's been 9 months and I don't feel I'm any closer to self-resolution. we all heal at our own pace. I can tell you are going in the right direction, keep moving forward and you will be where you need to be soon! Thanks, Good luck and keep posting! good luck to you too!
Author andyg99 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 Last night was very sad as my ex told her daughter that she was moving away soon to start a new life. She came to pick her up at about 7 and she dropped her off at about 8:30. I saw she was upset and then she took a call from her sister (my oldest) and went upstairs to talk to her. I knew something was up. So I let her finish her call and I went in her room and noticed she had been crying - right then I pretty much know what happened. Her mom told her she was moving away to "start over". Needless to say this little girl was beyond upset, I'd say a little shocked also. She was holding back tears so I assured her that it was ok to cry and she just let it go... I let her know how she has a home with me and that will never change.. she cried a lot and talked a little, I held her and she cried some more, I can't imagine how a 12 year old processes the fact that her mom is leaving her. I stayed up with her until she fell asleep... Today she has a beach day planned with her dad and friends. I'll be talking to her dad and letting him know that this is her home, he's ok with it but now that the ex will be out of the picture I want to make an agreement that we both do what is best for her and I think that means staying in a home that she has known all her life. If he gets his stuff together and can afford his own place someday of course he has every right to have her with him but I'm really glad that we are on the same page and agree that she is where she needs to be. I can't believe how fast this has moved - right now I have zero feelings for the ex. What she did to her own daughter is nothing short of evil...
debtman Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 andyg99, That's just unbelievable...I'm speechless...how can she do that to her daughter. Man, that little girl is so lucky to have you as a dad. Thanks for the advice on OM. It's good to hear stories like yours and see that the emotional hurt fades away with time enough for you to be civil around the new couple. And, after a somewhat remorseful call from my stbx last night, I will take VERY good note of your advice about cheaters. I can't ever see a situation where I would ever consider taking her back after what she did, but your story (even after years of divorce) certainly helps solidify the notion that some people just won't ever change. Good luck and keep posting...
Author andyg99 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Posted July 20, 2011 andyg99, That's just unbelievable...I'm speechless...how can she do that to her daughter. Man, that little girl is so lucky to have you as a dad. Thanks for the advice on OM. It's good to hear stories like yours and see that the emotional hurt fades away with time enough for you to be civil around the new couple. And, after a somewhat remorseful call from my stbx last night, I will take VERY good note of your advice about cheaters. I can't ever see a situation where I would ever consider taking her back after what she did, but your story (even after years of divorce) certainly helps solidify the notion that some people just won't ever change. Good luck and keep posting... cheaters are a different breed, folks like us cannot relate to them... we believe in ending the current relationship before starting another one. Cheaters are basically selfish, it really just comes down to that. Can they change? I think anyone can change but it's probably rare, we are who we are for the most part, being selfish cheaters see no reason to change, afterall if the other party treated them perfectly then they wouldn't have cheated.... anyway I'm going to talk to the girl's dad about legal guardianship, I think I'd be able to add her to my insurance if I become her guardian, plus I'd have rights to make decisions on her behalf. It's been quite a ride these past 3 weeks (yup it's been exactly 3 weeks since she left) my emotions have been like a rollercoaster but there is a 12 year old girl who has it 1000x worse than me and she is my main focus. I refuse to waste any energy on the ex anymore.
Tech_E Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 but there is a 12 year old girl who has it 1000x worse than me and she is my main focus. I refuse to waste any energy on the ex anymore. What a very profound statement. You are an amazing person, congrats to you for conducting yourself with honor and grace. I only wish I had 1/10000th of your dignity.
Author andyg99 Posted July 24, 2011 Author Posted July 24, 2011 well it'll be almost a month is a few days... still just the one moment contact with her, and you know what? I couldn't be happier! Everyone is out today, the little one is camping with her best friends family for a week and I had a day of baseball, yardwork, a 6 mile run and taking a nap with my dog at my feet. Am I in heaven? Folks - for those of you going through tough times please know that it gets better, we all heal at our own pace. Put your kids first, ALWAYS! My focus was on her daughter from day one, and now I realize that focusing on her was not only the best thing for her but for me too! Last night I had a bbq with my kids and their friends - I didn't think of the ex once, I did think that I can't wait until someday when I have a real woman at my side, until then I'm doing the best thing for everyone involved, I'm living my life and not running away from anyone!
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