Author Woggle Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 I hope he doesn't enjoy hurting her but I admit I get sick of seeing good men get hurt like he was so when I see a man refusing to be a doormat anymore I want to clap for him even if it isn't in the healthiest manner. Maybe it is so wrong to feel like that but it was my first reaction when he told me.
Jason Todd Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 As I've said repeatedly, it's about respect of people. You're the only person uttering "woman" or "man" this or that. If she cared about respect she would've never jumped into bed with him so quick and the only one who's being sexist is you. And it's kind of ridiculous that I need to explain this to a man because its usually women I'm telling this to . . . . . you need to speak your thoughts and intentions out loud. But why does he have to be the one to do it? Because he's a man. Girls leave hints all the time for men to pick up on and think they are being obvious and get mad when men don't get it and I tell them its because they didn't tell the person directly. The world isn't full of mind readers. This is not a case of mind reading. It's a case of a ONS. Plain and simple. If he wanted a relationship he would've called her up afterwards. If he was a good person, then he should have no problem discussing his intentions because his intentions were good. If he was a bad person then that's why he'd hide behind other things. But see you're ignoring the fact that he doesn't have to tell her anything, especially when his intentions were quite clear. He was a victim and so was she. Never once have I said,"Wow, she was the only victim because she is a woman." You're the one saying that he's the only victim because he's a man and men should be allowed to do whatever they want with women and not state their intentions to them. Ahh there it is. The warped thinking that she's a victim when this case is nowhere near what he went through, and completely unrelated. She was NOT A VICTIM! SHE CHOSE to get in the bed with him also!:rolleyes:
Tybalt Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 The whole thing sounds a little sad. Everyone is better off taking responsibility for their behavior. The woman at the bar must take ownership of the result for jumping right into bed with a guy (even though her later texting belies some mixed feelings about it), your friend has to acknowledge that he used somebody (and still deal with his hurt feelings over the cheating ex), and even the ex-fiancee has to live with being a cheater, and not having the emotional maturity to deal with her own issues without using someone else, and betraying your friend. Though the degree of "wrong" varies, it doesn't appear like anyone ended up completely satisfied in this situation. Hopefully everyone involved takes something of value from the painful parts.
Enchanted Girl Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 @Jason Todd: He has to tell her because he's the one who wants nothing, DUH! Like I said, it has nothing to do with him being a man or a woman, you are the one who keeps throwing those words around. You know that the situation COULD be reversed right? Where they got intimate fast and the man wanted something and the woman didn't and she would need to explain that to the man if he tried to pursue him because SHE'S the one trying to end it. You have no idea how much I've had to force certain friends of mine to stop ignoring guys and just tell them directly that they are not interested. Because this is the obligation of the party being pursued. Afterwards they can continue to ignore. It's not that hard to take five seconds - five minutes out of your life to end something. And also basically, I agree with Hot Chick completely. And I noticed that you have no problem with me calling the man a victim, but call a woman a victim and I'm being a ridiculous. Obviously men never hurt women and never act selfish so women are never victims. =/ Really, both genders are capable of being selfish and both are capable of hurting and it happens on a frequent basis. It's usually the selfish men and women who do the hurting out there who are incapable of seeing this because they can only count the wrongs done to them and no one else. Me, on the other hand, I know women can be bitches, too.
Trimmer Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Be patient with him. Right now, he's bitter, but keep reminding him that not all women are evil by pointing out the good ones and the hurt ones in the world. But not forcefully pointing them out because he won't listen. Heh heh - we're sending Woggle out into the world to spread the good word about not categorizing all women by the acts of a few. I'm going to check to see if I know what year it is and who is president just to be sure that I haven't received a blow to the head that is disorienting me... Yes, you can ignore him, but only after YOU EXPLAIN THAT ITS OVER FIRST. SImple enough, and I agree - just be clear and say it, then you can go on ignore if you feel the need. Ignoring someone (irrespective of gender) without just saying it first is childish at best, and can seem to be intentionally cruel. Be a grown up. I hope he doesn't enjoy hurting her but I admit I get sick of seeing good men get hurt like he was so when I see a man refusing to be a doormat anymore I want to clap for him even if it isn't in the healthiest manner. OK, Woggle, but here's the deal - the way I see it, you've got two different "manhood issues" going on here at once - one is the stepping out on his ex-fiance and having the hookup, and the other is the way he's handling the hookup in its aftermath. I can agree with you that he's demonstrating that he's "not being a doormat" by dropping his fiance and moving on and having a manly time, instead of cowering at home and crying in his pillow. I can see that, and I can even give him a "you go for it, dude...." if it works for him. But as for how he's handling it, if he's intentionally ignoring his hookup, and hasn't been clear with her that he has no further intentions with her, that doesn't show him "not being a doormat", that just shows him being either insensitive, childish, and possibly even intentionally cruel, and that's a completely different thing from "not being a doormat." That's recognizing his power, not for personal empowerment and confidence, but for pushing someone else's nose in the mud to make him feel better, and there's nothing confident or manly about that. That's a lame move, and if that's what he's doing, it doesn't show that he's "refusing to be a doormat." It shows that he likes toying with people. Having said all that, if you tell me that he was honest and clear and direct with his hookup about his future intentions, then he's done his job as a mature adult, and I don't put it on his shoulders to have to handle her reaction to that... Edited July 12, 2011 by Trimmer
dreamingoftigers Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Agree with Trimmer 100%, he needs to own it like a man and tell her to move on and stop contacting him. If he wasn't expecting/promoting a follow-up with her, they wouldn't have exchanged numbers, DUH.
P&R Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Yes it is wrong. Using people is one of the worst things you can do.
Taramere Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 OK, Woggle, but here's the deal - the way I see it, you've got two different "manhood issues" going on here at once - one is the stepping out on his ex-fiance and having the hookup, and the other is the way he's handling the hookup in its aftermath. I can agree with you that he's demonstrating that he's "not being a doormat" by dropping his fiance and moving on and having a manly time, instead of cowering at home and crying in his pillow. I can see that, and I can even give him a "you go for it, dude...." if it works for him. But as for how he's handling it, if he's intentionally ignoring his hookup, and hasn't been clear with her that he has no further intentions with her, that doesn't show him "not being a doormat", that just shows him being either insensitive, childish, and possibly even intentionally cruel, and that's a completely different thing from "not being a doormat." That's recognizing his power, not for personal empowerment and confidence, but for pushing someone else's nose in the mud to make him feel better, and there's nothing confident or manly about that. That's a lame move, and if that's what he's doing, it doesn't show that he's "refusing to be a doormat." It shows that he likes toying with people. I completely agree. The outlined scenario doesn't sound like anything more therapeutic or empowering than somebody mentally making the switch from victim to persecutor in the drama triangle. It's a pity he couldn't have simply behaved like an adult having some fun.
donnamaybe Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 He's only wrong if he misrepresented himself to the bar woman. If he made her pretty promises or lied to her in some way to get laid then it was wrong. If it was all upfront, then no problem. Yep, and even if he didn't specifically state there was going to be nothing but one time sex, he still isn't wrong as far as I'm concerned. If the woman assumed something beyond what was going on at the present time, that's on her. That's what happens sometimes when you screw someone the first day you meet them. He should, however, at least tell her what the deal is now that she's trying to contact him.
BetheButterfly Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 A coworker of mine just had his ex fiance cheat on him and he was heartbroken so I took him around my way for some fun this weekend. He had a blast and it was great to see him just forget about his ex. He starts chatting up this woman at a bar from Long Island and he gets her number. The next morning I find out that he met her at the hotel and they had sex. He said he needed to just have a good screw with a woman and be a man for once in his life. She is texting him and he is ignoring it. He doesn't want to hear from her again and said that it was just a one time thing. I must admit that he was a swagger I have yet to see and seems like a new man. It sounds messed up but maybe this is what he needs to finally grow a pair of balls. Is he wrong for this? He needs to use his new pair of balls to inform the woman he used to grow them that he no longer has any need for her services and doesn't care at all for her. That will put all his wrongs to right...
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 A coworker of mine just had his ex fiance cheat on him and he was heartbroken so I took him around my way for some fun this weekend. He had a blast and it was great to see him just forget about his ex. He starts chatting up this woman at a bar from Long Island and he gets her number. The next morning I find out that he met her at the hotel and they had sex. He said he needed to just have a good screw with a woman and be a man for once in his life. She is texting him and he is ignoring it. He doesn't want to hear from her again and said that it was just a one time thing. I must admit that he was a swagger I have yet to see and seems like a new man. It sounds messed up but maybe this is what he needs to finally grow a pair of balls. Is he wrong for this? As with most women who jump straight into bed with a guy... she is STUPID. That said... he is acting like an ass. He should tell her exactly where he is at and what he wants. Right now he is just ignoring her hoping she will go away. That is for passive aggressive guys and women. Tell him to grow a pair and tell this woman exactly what he wants from her. Even if that means he apologizes that she took one night to mean he was interested in something long term. Also... You don't punish other people for something your Ex did to you. That isn't a manly thing to do. This guy is acting like a woman and it isn't acceptable!
BetheButterfly Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 As with most women who jump straight into bed with a guy... she is STUPID. Well, she did not make a smart choice... That said... he is acting like an ass. He should tell her exactly where he is at and what he wants. Right now he is just ignoring her hoping she will go away. That is for passive aggressive guys and women. Tell him to grow a pair and tell this woman exactly what he wants from her. Even if that means he apologizes that she took one night to mean he was interested in something long term. Agreed Also... You don't punish other people for something your Ex did to you. Excellent point That isn't a manly thing to do. This guy is acting like a woman and it isn't acceptable! It's not a womanly thing to do either. Both men and women who are hurt though and who don't care about hurting others tend to pull heartless stunts like this. The saying "Hurt people hurt others." isn't a good excuse though for people to go out and hurt someone else. People who have good hearts care for others, regardless of whether someone has hurt them or not. It takes a lot more strength to not hurt others than it does to be selfish and hurt others in order to make one "feel good."
Queen Zenobia Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 As with most women who jump straight into bed with a guy... she is STUPID. That said... he is acting like an ass. He should tell her exactly where he is at and what he wants. Right now he is just ignoring her hoping she will go away. That is for passive aggressive guys and women. Tell him to grow a pair and tell this woman exactly what he wants from her. Even if that means he apologizes that she took one night to mean he was interested in something long term. Also... You don't punish other people for something your Ex did to you. That isn't a manly thing to do. This guy is acting like a woman and it isn't acceptable! I don't see how this guy's behavior is "acting like a woman", but since I agree with the general idea of your post I'll let it slide I suppose. The one thing I don't get however, is how exactly is having sex with someone punishment? I assume she had a nice time too (otherwise she wouldn't be contacting him). Unless he purposely misled her, or stole her purse when he left I don't see how he punished her. They were both active and willing participants.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 It's not a womanly thing to do either. Both men and women who are hurt though and who don't care about hurting others tend to pull heartless stunts like this. The saying "Hurt people hurt others." isn't a good excuse though for people to go out and hurt someone else. People who have good hearts care for others, regardless of whether someone has hurt them or not. It takes a lot more strength to not hurt others than it does to be selfish and hurt others in order to make one "feel good." When someone hurts you and you in return hurt someone totally innocent... that is flat out wrong. I think most people consider that to be a womanly thing to do because it's such a common behavior among abused women. I don't see how this guy's behavior is "acting like a woman", but since I agree with the general idea of your post I'll let it slide I suppose. The one thing I don't get however, is how exactly is having sex with someone punishment? I assume she had a nice time too (otherwise she wouldn't be contacting him). Unless he purposely misled her, or stole her purse when he left I don't see how he punished her. They were both active and willing participants. He is acting like a woman because he is not being honest. He is just passive aggressively ignoring her instead of just telling her where she stands.
Jason Todd Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 @Jason Todd: He has to tell her because he's the one who wants nothing, DUH! Like I said, it has nothing to do with him being a man or a woman, you are the one who keeps throwing those words around. You know that the situation COULD be reversed right? Where they got intimate fast and the man wanted something and the woman didn't and she would need to explain that to the man if he tried to pursue him because SHE'S the one trying to end it. You have no idea how much I've had to force certain friends of mine to stop ignoring guys and just tell them directly that they are not interested. Because this is the obligation of the party being pursued. Afterwards they can continue to ignore. It's not that hard to take five seconds - five minutes out of your life to end something. And also basically, I agree with Hot Chick completely. And I noticed that you have no problem with me calling the man a victim, but call a woman a victim and I'm being a ridiculous. Obviously men never hurt women and never act selfish so women are never victims. =/ Really, both genders are capable of being selfish and both are capable of hurting and it happens on a frequent basis. It's usually the selfish men and women who do the hurting out there who are incapable of seeing this because they can only count the wrongs done to them and no one else. Me, on the other hand, I know women can be bitches, too. Yea so when someone gets cheated on and they break it off with a cheater they are wrong for going out and getting sex. Whatever. He still wasn't wrong in any way.
serial muse Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Yea so when someone gets cheated on and they break it off with a cheater they are wrong for going out and getting sex. Whatever. He still wasn't wrong in any way. ? I thought the point being made was that he had every right to go out and get sex. He probably should just tell the ONS woman to stop calling him now because he doesn't want to see her again, and it's the decent thing to do. Not sure where the disconnect is? Isn't that what you think a standup person, man or woman, ought to do?
Nexus One Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 He's wrong. He's making another woman pay for what his ex did to him. I don't think he grew a pair, I think he threw his ethics out of the window and thinks it's justified because of what his ex did to him, he basically pretty much lowered himself to her level.
Queen Zenobia Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 When someone hurts you and you in return hurt someone totally innocent... that is flat out wrong. I think most people consider that to be a womanly thing to do because it's such a common behavior among abused women. Wait, what? Abused women? We're talking about two consenting adults who had sex and got their signals crossed. That's not even an apples to oranges comparison, more like apples to chicken strips. He is acting like a woman because he is not being honest. He is just passive aggressively ignoring her instead of just telling her where she stands. Oh yes, it's in a woman's nature to be dishonest and deceptive. It's not you know, a thing humans do in general (unfortunately).
Queen Zenobia Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 He's wrong. He's making another woman pay for what his ex did to him. I don't think he grew a pair, I think he threw his ethics out of the window and thinks it's justified because of what his ex did to him, he basically pretty much lowered himself to her level. While I think he should just be straight with her about things, I fail to see how she was a passive participant in this situation. She knowingly met a strange guy, at a bar, and then went to a hotel to sleep with him. That's not exactly the foundation of a lasting relationship, at least none that I've heard of.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Wait, what? Abused women? We're talking about two consenting adults who had sex and got their signals crossed. That's not even an apples to oranges comparison, more like apples to chicken strips. Cheating on someone is emotionally abusing them. Oh yes, it's in a woman's nature to be dishonest and deceptive. It's not you know, a thing humans do in general (unfortunately). It is the type of lie. If he told her he was a billionaire playboy then that is a man style lie. Get it?
Nexus One Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 That's not exactly the foundation of a lasting relationship, at least none that I've heard of. She called him back, so he quite probably gave her a different idea. He quite probably deceived her so that he got what he wanted, because if he was upfront about his motive, then why would she have called him back?
Queen Zenobia Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 She called him back, so he quite probably gave her a different idea. He quite probably deceived her so that he got what he wanted, because if he was upfront about his motive, then why would she have called him back? Um...was she a newborn baby? Had she been in a coma since she was 8 years old? How naive can you be to think that having sex the first time you meet a guy under the circumstances she did had a high probability of leading to something more substantial? I will gladly stand corrected if it turns out she was mentally handicapped or sincerely had some disability preventing her from being able to think clearly. But, on average women are not stupid and can see through these things too.
Nexus One Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Um...was she a newborn baby? Had she been in a coma since she was 8 years old? How naive can you be to think that having sex the first time you meet a guy under the circumstances she did had a high probability of leading to something more substantial? I will gladly stand corrected if it turns out she was mentally handicapped or sincerely had some disability preventing her from being able to think clearly. But, on average women are not stupid and can see through these things too. The fact that she might have been naive is no justification for anyone to deceive her and screw her over.
donnamaybe Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 The fact that she might have been naive is no justification for anyone to deceive her and screw her over. Why do you go under the assumption that he lied to her?
Queen Zenobia Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 The fact that she might have been naive is no justification for anyone to deceive her and screw her over. *sigh* Women are not fragile porcelain dolls. Unless you can give me actual evidence that she was not medically right in the head I cannot look at her as a victim. If she's that naive then perhaps she should not be out of the home without an escort. This wasn't the auto repair shop ripping her off or the roof repair people, this is something that should be common sense.
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