Star Gazer Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Yes, it was the girl checking guy. We had a talk about it. He said the things I didn't hear the first time (and it was very sincere) and I chose to give him the benefit of teh doubt. It hasn't happened since. However, they're separate issues and either one, for me, is a deal breaker. If either issue is really a deal breaker, why didn't the first, well, break it? And while they're separate behaviors, they come down to one thing: he doesn't respect you. I think if we're too vigilant in dissecting someone, we'll dissect everyone off the table. I agree and disagree. Recognizing disrespectful behavior doesn't require dissection, just observation.
NoReallyThatHappened Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Looking back, I can see at three months how everyone was. I just chose to ignore most of the gigantic red elephants walking through the room and continue on in the relationship. Like EH said, after a couple of bad experiences people become gun shy and start looking for reasons to toss someone off the table. For me, I know I do this, so I think I over compensate by overlooking things that are legitimate red flags because I think I'm gun shy rather than rational.
Author daphne Posted July 10, 2011 Author Posted July 10, 2011 I think a lot of people either become gun-shy because of bad experiences or are so incredibly picky that they are looking for really ridiculous reasons NOT to date people. I'm sorry things didn't work out with this guy, but you did the right thing in dating him. Most of the time when we date people, it lasts about three months because that's about the longest any of us can put up a front and hide our real identity. So in that sense, i think this relationship of yours worked out pretty much the way it was supposed to. What's unfortunate is that he had to be abusive and disrespectful in ending it. Thanks. I find it interesting that it seems that the male posters saw the real issue, whereas an alarming number of women chose to ignore that possibly because of their own political beliefs. I would have thought it would be reverse, since the issue is about abuse and respect. Not Walmart. If either issue is really a deal breaker, why didn't the first, well, break it? And while they're separate behaviors, they come down to one thing: he doesn't respect you. I agree and disagree. Recognizing disrespectful behavior doesn't require dissection, just observation. The ogling issue became a non issue, once he explained that I don't know him well enough but that he doesn't ogle women. He never did it again, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Looking back, I can see at three months how everyone was. I just chose to ignore most of the gigantic red elephants walking through the room and continue on in the relationship. Like EH said, after a couple of bad experiences people become gun shy and start looking for reasons to toss someone off the table. For me, I know I do this, so I think I over compensate by overlooking things that are legitimate red flags because I think I'm gun shy rather than rational. I understand the overcompensating thing. I do that myself, because I see so many people throwing out the baby with the bath water over minute things. However, I have learned to take off the rose colored glasses and figure out if it's a deal breaker. On another note, he called and left a message. He respected me walking out on him, but mentioned that I should put in my dating profile that I love Walmart. He meant it as an icebreaking joke, but the fact that he doesn't get that I don't necessarily have any real feelings towards walmart is kind of clueless on his part. And on another note, a gf of mine randomly sent me a fb email, asking if I wanted to be set up with a former pro bb player who's lookingto settle down. She thought we might have some things in common. I'll just have to feel him out to see if he's ultra either side. But it's nice to know that I may have an option soon. I was thinking about taking myself off the market indefinitely.
OliveOyl Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 I'm sorry it ended this way. Being told "**** you" -- especially over a political debate which shouldn't be taken personally, would be a deal-breaker for me. In addition, it points to anger-management issues, something I'm very on-guard about. A lot of guys have problems managing their anger issues in healthy ways and I think I would need to see how they deal with their anger before I feel I've' seen their "true colors." Getting angry isn't so much the problem, it's how they get angry (my ex would be fine one moment, and erupt out of the blue the next. I couldn't handle that well and always felt I was walking on eggshells after a while). I think the hard part about ignoring possible red flags is not truly knowing whether they are tip of the icebergs or there's nothing more beyond the one manifestation. For example your guy seemed to ogle a girl once which could have been the tip of an iceberg of a behavior pattern - OR it could have been a one-off incident (and it appears as if it was the latter). It just takes time to find out, and the difficult part is by the time we finally DO find out -- if it was a true red flag, we may be significantly invested in the relationship. Not sure there's any way around this. Some people say they prevent themselves from getting emotionally invested until they're "sure." But then how can one determine whether the relationship has potential?
SmileFace Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Its not when a person chooses to show their true colors but when we plan to acknowledge them. Don't you love how that works?
Star Gazer Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 On another note, he called and left a message. He respected me walking out on him, but mentioned that I should put in my dating profile that I love Walmart. He meant it as an icebreaking joke, but the fact that he doesn't get that I don't necessarily have any real feelings towards walmart is kind of clueless on his part. Goodness, that's hilarious. The guy I most recently dated and ended things with also sent me a joke which was intended to be an icebreaker, but only made him look more clueless. And on another note, a gf of mine randomly sent me a fb email, asking if I wanted to be set up with a former pro bb player who's lookingto settle down. She thought we might have some things in common. I'll just have to feel him out to see if he's ultra either side. But it's nice to know that I may have an option soon. I was thinking about taking myself off the market indefinitely. Sounds exciting! Why take yourself off the market? Perhaps I'm misreading this, but you don't sound particularly devastated over this breakup, nor as though you had been on a bad cycle of poor decision making. So, why not?
Author daphne Posted July 10, 2011 Author Posted July 10, 2011 I think the hard part about ignoring possible red flags is not truly knowing whether they are tip of the icebergs or there's nothing more beyond the one manifestation. For example your guy seemed to ogle a girl once which could have been the tip of an iceberg of a behavior pattern - OR it could have been a one-off incident (and it appears as if it was the latter). It just takes time to find out, and the difficult part is by the time we finally DO find out -- if it was a true red flag, we may be significantly invested in the relationship. Not sure there's any way around this. Some people say they prevent themselves from getting emotionally invested until they're "sure." But then how can one determine whether the relationship has potential? I agree. I think you know, as a female, that you're going to have to learn to accept things about another person that may not be ideal or you'll be alone. No man is perfect. (And, well, we're not either.) But when are you being realistic, and when are you accepting unacceptable behavior? I guess we can only have experiences that show us what our individual deal breakers are. And I think when you have the unrealistic expectations of Prince Charming, that's when you're most vulnerable to smooth talking losers.
Star Gazer Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 I think the hard part about ignoring possible red flags is not truly knowing whether they are tip of the icebergs or there's nothing more beyond the one manifestation. For example your guy seemed to ogle a girl once which could have been the tip of an iceberg of a behavior pattern - OR it could have been a one-off incident (and it appears as if it was the latter). It just takes time to find out, and the difficult part is by the time we finally DO find out -- if it was a true red flag, we may be significantly invested in the relationship. Not sure there's any way around this. Some people say they prevent themselves from getting emotionally invested until they're "sure." But then how can one determine whether the relationship has potential? Totally. Also, if we "ignore" or misread an initial red-flag, or tip of the iceberg, we're often left feeling silly and stupid and as if the failure of the relationship and our hurt feelings are somehow our fault. That feeling sucks.
ascendotum Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I agreed he treated you very disrepectfully, given that you are his gf, let alone a stranger he just met in a bar. I just read how things were hunky dory with you two up until the kmart discussion, so just thought I'd let you know, his extreme reaction could be part of a deliberate strategy to exit the relationship. Rather just say to you, I've had fun, and before this gets too serious, I want to leave now, as I don't see you as a long term partner, the other person, will ramp up on any any arguments and get pissed over little things, and start showing negative traits so as the other partner will break up with them (and they dont end up the 3mth dumper of a nice person) or else they will over react on an issue and breakup over that and walk away from the relationship as the aggrieved party. It does happen...I know someone who does this as part of his MO. I suspect it was employed on me before with a nasty argument + break up over a stupid little issue. As regards your original question. 3-4 mths. Edited July 11, 2011 by ascendotum
Author daphne Posted July 11, 2011 Author Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I agreed he treated you very disrepectfully, given that you are his gf, let alone a stranger he just met in a bar. I just read how things were hunky dory with you two up until the kmart discussion, so just thought I'd let you know, his extreme reaction could be part of a deliberate strategy to exit the relationship. Rather just say to you, I've had fun, and before this gets too serious, I want to leave now, as I don't see you as a long term partner, the other person, will ramp up on any any arguments and get pissed over little things, and start showing negative traits so as the other partner will break up with them (and they dont end up the 3mth dumper of a nice person) or else they will over react on an issue and breakup over that and walk away from the relationship as the aggrieved party. It does happen...I know someone who does this as part of his MO. I suspect it was employed on me before with a nasty argument + break up over a stupid little issue. As regards your original question. 3-4 mths. There's a consensus then. I thought about this myself. My friend and I, who is an ultra liberal herself, couldn't figure out why he just snapped like that. She and I have had disagreements that didn't end up in a fight. I think, perhaps, he may have been insecure that I might want to end things. We had recently had a conversation on our differences, and whether we might make it long term. I would have prefered he had just said that he didn't think things were working out. It would have saved me some drama. Took six years for my ex, but I don't think it was true colors, but an about face. Your ex and my ex should be with each other because they sound just alike. At least you didn't waste seven years. Better luck next time. Gosh. Yeah, 6 years is a long time to spend with someone and end up poorly. I'm sorry. And yeah, I feel like I got off relatively scott free. Still hurts though. Edited July 11, 2011 by daphne
EasyHeart Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 I think you know, as a female, that you're going to have to learn to accept things about another person that may not be ideal or you'll be alone. No man is perfect.HEY!!! I resent this.
dreamingoftigers Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 I agreed he treated you very disrepectfully, given that you are his gf, let alone a stranger he just met in a bar. I just read how things were hunky dory with you two up until the kmart discussion, so just thought I'd let you know, his extreme reaction could be part of a deliberate strategy to exit the relationship. Rather just say to you, I've had fun, and before this gets too serious, I want to leave now, as I don't see you as a long term partner, the other person, will ramp up on any any arguments and get pissed over little things, and start showing negative traits so as the other partner will break up with them (and they dont end up the 3mth dumper of a nice person) or else they will over react on an issue and breakup over that and walk away from the relationship as the aggrieved party. It does happen...I know someone who does this as part of his MO. I suspect it was employed on me before with a nasty argument + break up over a stupid little issue. As regards your original question. 3-4 mths. "WALMART, IT WAS WALMART, **** YOU!" Kidding.... 1
Author daphne Posted July 11, 2011 Author Posted July 11, 2011 Goodness, that's hilarious. The guy I most recently dated and ended things with also sent me a joke which was intended to be an icebreaker, but only made him look more clueless. Sounds exciting! Why take yourself off the market? Perhaps I'm misreading this, but you don't sound particularly devastated over this breakup, nor as though you had been on a bad cycle of poor decision making. So, why not? Yes, sigh. Men are clueless. Every god loving one of them. I'm not crushed as I have been in the past. The benefit of taking things really slow. But I am depressed and keep trying to change things in my mind on a regular basis. Up until now, I loved being around him and my feelings were growing. I felt safe and we had a lot of fun. Plus, he showed himself to be a great partner, and that was a huge plus to me. That's a rarety! Plus, the bb boy is younger. And wants kids. I cannot guarantee that, at this time. Any woman over 32 may have a tough time guaranteeing it. I don't want to be someone's temp trophy gf. HEY!!! I resent this. Resent, or resemble?
Author daphne Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Talked with him on the phone. Was scared he'd fly off the handle. He tried to remain calm. He kept saying that I was "probably right" that I didn't deserve being screamed at or cussed out. I told him there's no "probably" about it. Clearly he still does feel like it's my fault. We ended up hanging up on each other. He also told me that he has had huge fights with other exes over this issue. I told him that he places his politics over relationships. But that's not for me and I'm not going to walk on egg shells. It's interesting how I was supposed to accept his moronic, uncontrollable anger, yet when I showed a little anger that he treated me that way he refused to acknowledge it and hung up on me. What a complete and utter loser. Interesting how, in one minute he says "that wasn't like me" and the next minute he says "I've told a lot of people to f** themselves." Which is it? I no longer feel remotely indecisive about this. This guy is a class A assho**. And furthermore, he can go f** himself. I'm so glad he made it easy. He has removed all doubt.
spiderowl Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 He shouldn't have disrespected you and shouldn't have been insulting in that way. That goes without saying really. I do wonder whether he realised you were playing devil's advocate. It can sometimes be really annoying when someone does that, especially when it's about an issue that you feel strongly about. Underlying stress and tension and then your partner sticks to their other argument even though their argument is logical, the fact that they are sticking at it can seem a bit too much. It doesn't excuse abuse but I can see it being frustrating. I've experienced this with my ex, who always took the logical viewpoint and would argue a point for the fun of it when I was taking it seriously and felt tired of the discussion. There is a fine line between getting someone to consider the other viewpoint and pushing it too far. I don't say this to imply you were doing that but perhaps it's something to consider? It does sound as if he realises something's gone horribly wrong and at least he said he respected you walking out. You mention he's had a fairly good track record so far, though the drinks think sounds as if he can flip very quickly. I do think one should always be wary where aggression looms its head, particularly if there is any risk of violence or abuse.
spiderowl Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Ah you posted that last message while I was writing mine! I've obviously given him too much benefit of the doubt there. If he's done this before, then it's just plain weird. Why only over that issue in particular? What other issues has he said similar things to people about? It sounds like he's still saying you are to blame. Was he saying he'd said the same to other people in order to get you to accept it is normal behaviour and that they haven't all reacted like you? I'm a bit puzzled as to why he'd tell you he's lost his cool over this before. Had you any inkling he had an issue with this subject? Sounds like you are better off out of it.
Author daphne Posted July 12, 2011 Author Posted July 12, 2011 Ah you posted that last message while I was writing mine! I've obviously given him too much benefit of the doubt there. If he's done this before, then it's just plain weird. Why only over that issue in particular? What other issues has he said similar things to people about? It sounds like he's still saying you are to blame. Was he saying he'd said the same to other people in order to get you to accept it is normal behaviour and that they haven't all reacted like you? I'm a bit puzzled as to why he'd tell you he's lost his cool over this before. Had you any inkling he had an issue with this subject? Sounds like you are better off out of it. I gave him too much of the benefit of the doubt, too. Fortunately, he helped me out by removing it all. It is seriously weird ass nonsense. I think I'll ask how someone feels about Walmart next time I go on a first date. If the have an overwhelming desire to proselytize, I'm out! Yes, he actually said he thought my reaction was too sensitive. I think the exes just didn't have the sense to know that being verbally abused is a deal breaker. One of them was a borderline, bat sh** crazy girl, so clearly they enjoyed a few tussles. Interestingly, he always acted like they were the ones treating him poorly. I had no idea he felt so strongly about Walmart, or I would never have asked him questions about it. I am completely better off without him. I am just extremely grateful that his attempt to placate me again didn't work and that he was unable to pull it off. I had been struggling with the thought that perhaps I had been somehow overbearing. My friends have tried to convince me otherwise.
gorilla07 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Oh my gosh. It was about Walmart. Seriously. Did. Not. Care. But apparently he really did. Interesting. I would have just walked away from it
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