Glinda Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 A propos for some. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFl053mtbY4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Stung Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 :eek:oh my. So couples actually discuss when they marry a much older person that if they are sick they will **** around? So much for in sickness and in health. Do go on. Well, I'm in my 30s and my husband is in my 40s, so he's hardly MUCH older. Like another poster, I have worked with Alzheimer patients in the past, and it certainly left an impression. This thread sparked me to tell my husband that if I were ever diagnosed with Alz--well, that I would want him to help me die, before things got too bad, honestly. But if I got past the point of being able to make that choice for myself, and he were left taking care of my body but my personality, my individual self was changed and gone and he no longer had ME as his wife and I didn't even know who he was anymore, he has my permission to seek a bit of human comfort elsewhere as he deals with the stress and grief--and vice versa. So yeah, we've discussed it. Sorry if that seems like callous violation of our vows to you, but it seems like compassionate forethought to me.
Jason Todd Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 If a spouse constantly refuses sex or emotional connection, they should not be married. Cheating is not justifiable in these circumstances, but it is understandable. I cheated on my husband when we were dating. I felt like he didn't care about the relationship the way I did. I was tired of waiting for him to become warmer and more loving. I did not want to be the foolish woman, sitting at home pining for a man who did not want to commit. So I looked elsewhere and you know what? My then boyfriend forgave me when he found out, because he knew that he was, in his own words, "being a royal ass." Right so he deserved to be cheated on because of your assumption that he "never really loved you." And I'm 100% sure that he only said he forgave you because he was shocked about what he found out.
Jason Todd Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 100% sure you know someone else's thoughts uh???? :laugh: You are a hoot, harris, wiy, oh I mean j todd. Yes I know the mind of participants of infidelity, and it doesn't excuse the fact that he never deserved it.
Jason Todd Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Even if you make a good point, no one takes you seriously because you troll under your various user names only to hammer on anyone and everyone who doesn't see it your way. If you don't like someone's posts, that is your problem. Even those who mainly post in infidelity are not your fans. I never asked for any poster to be a personal fan of mine so that's an immature moot point.
Jason Todd Posted July 11, 2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Wow, Jason. You know my husband very well, for somebody who has never even met him. :laugh: I know enough to know what he's going through.
BenThereDunThat Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 This. This is what I was getting at. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/07/13/dan-loves-the-ladies (scroll down to the second letter) Then again, in this situation, it's not infidelity, but an agreement. Still. (and don't be OCD like me and focus on the errors).
Gentlegirl Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Well, I'm in my 30s and my husband is in my 40s, so he's hardly MUCH older. Like another poster, I have worked with Alzheimer patients in the past, and it certainly left an impression. This thread sparked me to tell my husband that if I were ever diagnosed with Alz--well, that I would want him to help me die, before things got too bad, honestly. But if I got past the point of being able to make that choice for myself, and he were left taking care of my body but my personality, my individual self was changed and gone and he no longer had ME as his wife and I didn't even know who he was anymore, he has my permission to seek a bit of human comfort elsewhere as he deals with the stress and grief--and vice versa. So yeah, we've discussed it. Sorry if that seems like callous violation of our vows to you, but it seems like compassionate forethought to me. Glad that you have had that conversation with your husband. My late husband and I had that discussion when we first married 33 years ago. We also spoke about organ donation, resucitation after heart attack and our wishes regarding our wills. The agreement applied to both of us. If I became incapacitated then I would wish him to find some companionship. He wise a wise, caring and compassionate man. The conversation did not take place when he was ill with the dementia. Some people just don't read carefully , but then again maybe they aren't capable.
waytogo Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Glad that you have had that conversation with your husband. My late husband and I had that discussion when we first married 33 years ago. We also spoke about organ donation, resucitation after heart attack and our wishes regarding our wills. The agreement applied to both of us. If I became incapacitated then I would wish him to find some companionship. He wise a wise, caring and compassionate man. The conversation did not take place when he was ill with the dementia. Some people just don't read carefully , but then again maybe they aren't capable. Maybe I read carefully. Probably I just care. I do understand where you were. I won't post the history of why I do. People decide you date too slow/too fast. Everyone who hasn't lost in some way or another knows how YOU should handle it. When it's you/us, we handle it as we handle it. If you haven't done it, shut the H up. For anyone who hasn't been there, do you know what it's like to choose between hope and honoring a wish to shut the machine down? I know that one. Not to even have that option is probably worse. My belief in certain things has me stand by 'it shouldn't have been' a MM for you or for me. I understand comfort came when it did and how it did and it was easy to go with it. It doesn't make you the worst thing walking. Just a bad choice at a bad time.
Gentlegirl Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Maybe I read carefully. Probably I just care. I do understand where you were. I won't post the history of why I do. People decide you date too slow/too fast. Everyone who hasn't lost in some way or another knows how YOU should handle it. When it's you/us, we handle it as we handle it. If you haven't done it, shut the H up. For anyone who hasn't been there, do you know what it's like to choose between hope and honoring a wish to shut the machine down? I know that one. Not to even have that option is probably worse. My belief in certain things has me stand by 'it shouldn't have been' a MM for you or for me. I understand comfort came when it did and how it did and it was easy to go with it. It doesn't make you the worst thing walking. Just a bad choice at a bad time. I totally agree with you. My world was falling apart before my eyes and I couldn't handle it. The wrong choice.
waytogo Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I totally agree with you. My world was falling apart before my eyes and I couldn't handle it. The wrong choice. After what I experienced, and know you did also, even knowing a wrong choice was at least a real choice in our power. When you live thru the unreal, and have something that is even not quite real, but right there, no matter what you ever thought, you just might grab. Doesn't mean it was right to grab, and I mean me, just means where seeming comfort was, that's where we went.
Gentlegirl Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 After what I experienced, and know you did also, even knowing a wrong choice was at least a real choice in our power. When you live thru the unreal, and have something that is even not quite real, but right there, no matter what you ever thought, you just might grab. Doesn't mean it was right to grab, and I mean me, just means where seeming comfort was, that's where we went. A counsellor with the Alzheimer's Association here in Australia once told me that the patient contracts Alzheimer's dementia and the carer contracts "carer dementia". He described it as a surreal state of denial. I thought he put it very well indeed and it enlightened me as to why I had behaved in a way that was totally foreign to my nature. It was a light bulb moment. Cheers from Australia GG
Summer Breeze Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I just read the most touching article about glen cambell and his wife and his stuggle with alzheimers. She loves that man and is caring for him. The article was so heartfelt and I thought yup she would not be out running around ****ing someone else while he is home. I guess it takes a certain personality to be able to compartmentalize like that when one you are supposed to love is suffereing from a terrible disease and you are out partying it up with other men. I am happy glen has such a strong woman by his side that she is there, with him fully and not just thinking with her vajayjay. I wonder if christopher reeves wife was ****ing around. I doubt it. She had heart and compassion and was not that selfish, she stood by him. I'm surprised you're so very close to these couples. You're hearing their most personal and intimate moments. I know that unless you were privvy to all of that you certainly wouldn't be agreeing that we, as outsiders, have any idea what actually goes on in their M. I know that's a common theme here when a BS talks about the WS and the Ap, or the OP talks about the WS and BS so I know that you must have some inside information that what's been reported is the absolute and complete truth. I'm absolutely sure if either of the spouses were involved an any Rs that gave them comfort they'd rush right out and sell an article about it. Not. As an aside just note this. I do not have any reason to think either of these women have ever sought anyone else but now that Kristi has confirmed it for us I feel so much better.
Summer Breeze Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Well, I'm in my 30s and my husband is in my 40s, so he's hardly MUCH older. Like another poster, I have worked with Alzheimer patients in the past, and it certainly left an impression. This thread sparked me to tell my husband that if I were ever diagnosed with Alz--well, that I would want him to help me die, before things got too bad, honestly. But if I got past the point of being able to make that choice for myself, and he were left taking care of my body but my personality, my individual self was changed and gone and he no longer had ME as his wife and I didn't even know who he was anymore, he has my permission to seek a bit of human comfort elsewhere as he deals with the stress and grief--and vice versa. So yeah, we've discussed it. Sorry if that seems like callous violation of our vows to you, but it seems like compassionate forethought to me. Well said. I was in my early 20s when I married the first time. He was in his late 30s. When I got pregnant we talked about wills, remarriages, lengthy illnesses, dementia v physical illnesses. Everything. It's called being responsible. Sometimes the conversations might have started after watching a tv show or a movie. Sometimes the deepest and most thought provoking conversations came from the silliest of origins. When I was a teenager I worked in a nursing home. On a daily basis I saw families come and visit people who didn't remember them. Spouses that came every day and brought birthday cakes and read. They were there till the bitter end making sure their loved one was ok. I never would have judged any of them if they had found someone who could help shore them up and give them some strength. I remember telling my H about it and having a good old cry about things. Sadly he must have thought my dementia set in when I was 26 because that's when he cheated! I don't think it's ever justified but I do believe that there are times when I can understand it and accept it.
Summer Breeze Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 oh love they are public personnas. Yes, I do not know but from reading their remarkable journeys I do know. I know these women are not out running around playing footsie with another man while their husbands suffer. If you loved your husband you would not be able to play around just because he became ill. That is an excuse for unbecoming behavior. Only people who can compatmentalise are capable of this. That's takes a certain type of person. You know this? You know they aren't out playing footsie with someone else do you. As I said it must be interesting to be in the middle of their M. I am not insinuating they are but as I said so many preach that you don't know what's going on in a M unless you're in it. You're hearing what they want you to hear, could be lies or it could be the truth. You're extolling their virtues so certainly one can only assume you've got inside info. Of course you might be just taking them at face value because that's what you want to believe. That takes a certain type of person too.
analystfromhell Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Within the minds of the participants I can say from experience that it's fully justified- I'm lonely, I made a bad partner choice and now I'm trapped, he or she is unreasonable and so on. They say whatever they can to themselves to feel comfortable and justified. We, who aren't involved, can point to the marriage vows and play judge and jury. We can guess that they feel guilt at some level and condemn them for their rationalization. Ultimately it's a personal choice which depends on your perspective. Does it really matter whether or not a majority or even one person believes they are justified or unjustified? In our (US) society and many others there's enough moral baggage and cultural expectations that we, as a culture, definitely don't see any justification for affairs. The crucification of any popular or political figure after an affair is proof enough. The surrounding circumstances, if they come out, may change our private opinion but often as not we come to judgement based on individual ideals. Having been both a perpetrator and a victim of affairs, they cause a lot more heartache than they resolve. What else contributes so much to lies and distrust? Yeah, maybe they act as a catalyst to end bad marriages but really, what way other than outright abuse could be less justified?
123321 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Do you know of, or can you portray a scenario where in marriage infidelity may be justifiable? Not per se, but then life is seldom as simple as a game of checkers. It can never be justified. It is a selfish act that betrays the marriage vows and does permanent irreparable damage to the bond that the married couple had. There is no excuse for infidelity. There can however be reasons. People like to play the blame game, when a relationship fails there is plenty of blame to spread around and trying to fix 100% of the relationships woes on "the cheater" is childish and counter-productive.
Gentlegirl Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 ON which philosphical base you came from doesn't it? MY late husband did not adhere to any religous institiution but he was the gentlest, most loving, caring person I ever met. He lived by his own beliefs, and that is all we can do. I never heard him say a jugemental word about anybody in the whole 35 years I knew him. The world is full of "different" and isn't that what makes it so great? How dull would it be if we all held the same boring same old same old beliefs? Would it make anybody more right than anybody else? I must say that nobody to my knowledge has ever come back from the dead to say otherwise. Cheers, Gentlegirl
OldOnTheInside Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Not per se, but then life is seldom as simple as a game of checkers. It certainly is a complex SOB. When I ran around stabbing people in the back in my past, I had morally complex reasons for doing so (mostly involving saving/ruining other people's livelihoods), and I also had that exact thought process. Funnily enough, the others didn't see things my way. I wonder why that was... We can talk about how morally complex real life is (and it is), but it isn't going to mean much when we start effing around with people on a personal basis. There can however be reasons. People like to play the blame game, when a relationship fails there is plenty of blame to spread around and trying to fix 100% of the relationships woes on "the cheater" is childish and counter-productive. It's merely a matter of personal accountability. On this topic, nobody forces a cheater to enter an affair, they do it of their own free will. And that's where a lot of the undue angst comes from. I wouldn't blame somebody else for my own actions any more than I would accept responsibility for the actions of any other mentally sound adult. But maybe that's just me. The problem, is that when people find out who is responsible for what...things can end up devolving into a pissing contest. And that is why the blame game is childish and counter-productive. "I had an affair because you stopped having sex with me." "I stopped having sex with you because you emotionally neglected me." "You shouldn't have have neglected him. I'll be the better wife." "Blah blah blah." Only thing I see in the above example...is all-round incompetence.
Allisha Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Ok guys: My personal experience. Dearly loved husband was 75 and had Alzheimer's disease for 10 years. I was 60 and cared for him at home until 6 months before he died. No sex life for 10 years, no husband for 10 years ( since I was 50). As a person I had lost him to the disease many years ago. I had to put him into full time care after he had a fall and broke his hip.... I was visitng the nursing home every day after work. Met xMM and fell into the A. It just happened at a time in my life when I was trying to cope with being alone in every possible way and taking care of my husband's needs. In some ways it helped me through my husband's last months until he passed away. At the end the A got very intense and turned into a mess as they tend to do. People can act out of character in extreme cirumstances. In my case it was something I had never done before and never will again. I am now 64, the affair is behind me after much pain and I am dating a SINGLE man , Gentlegirl As sympathetic as I am for anyone who has to watch someone with that awful disease, no, it is not understandable that you had an affair. You made vows to your husband. For better, for worse? What part of that told you it was okay to have an affair? Disgusting.
David Cain Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 As sympathetic as I am for anyone who has to watch someone with that awful disease, no, it is not understandable that you had an affair. You made vows to your husband. For better, for worse? What part of that told you it was okay to have an affair? Disgusting. Agreed. Sex should be the last thing on your mind, knowing that your spouse has a terminal illness.
Gentlegirl Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 [Hello Allisha, It was actually my late husband who discussed this with me when we were first married 33 years ago. We had an agreement and it was a mutual one, but I won't go into that as I have already posted about it. So to answer your question.... Have a wonderful day, Gentlegirl QUOTE=Allisha;3519467]As sympathetic as I am for anyone who has to watch someone with that awful disease, no, it is not understandable that you had an affair. You made vows to your husband. For better, for worse? What part of that told you it was okay to have an affair? Disgusting.
Silly_Girl Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 oh love they are public personnas. Yes, I do not know but from reading their remarkable journeys I do know. I know these women are not out running around playing footsie with another man while their husbands suffer. If you loved your husband you would not be able to play around just because he became ill. That is an excuse for unbecoming behavior. Only people who can compatmentalise are capable of this. That's takes a certain type of person. Kristi - do you know these couples or have you merely read some housewife magazines and got all caught up in the romance of the articles? Suspect it's the latter and you actually know jack about who these people share their innermost feelings with or who they hang out with when they need to let their hair down. And as for the second para, it's not happened to you I assume? It's happened to someone I know. Her husband became something unrecognisable physically and emotionally. He was nothing like a husband and she was simply another carer he didn't recognise or respect. I hope for your sake it doesn't happen to you but I think a little compassion or understanding for those who've been where you haven't could go a long way.
Gentlegirl Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Kristi - do you know these couples or have you merely read some housewife magazines and got all caught up in the romance of the articles? Suspect it's the latter and you actually know jack about who these people share their innermost feelings with or who they hang out with when they need to let their hair down. I wonder if Kristi said "I knew that" when Tiger Woods and all his infidelities were exposed????? There have been countless people with perfect public personas whose personal lives have later been exposed as less than perfect! One of the former presidents of your own country, I believe was on very close terms with a gorgeous movies star. He presented the image of a perfect, loving family man and husband. Let's not exclude the late Princess Di..... and Prince Charles. I am sure you get my point... I agree that public personas mean diddly squat. To believe everything in the media reveals immaturity , ignorance and the inability to think for oneself. Cheers from Australia, Gentlegirl
Glinda Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Did anyone watch Hell's kitchen last night? Goodness how about that blonde southern floozy? She was quite embarrassing with all that sugar. I thought she may of been playing a game but wooooie if she didn't go to bed with that guy. Yuck just yuckie yuckie yuckie. I wonder if she will be embarrassed when she sees herself or think she is just as sexy as sexy can be and people are just jealous she got the man.:laugh: Some women are just delusional.Don't bother. You can't argue with arrogance. Arrogant people insist that their wants and needs are more important than other's. As long as they see themselves above fellow human beings, rational discussion is impossible.
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