waytogo Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Go back to being a serial, tramping OW. B*tch. Back up what you say. Where do you have any info of me being a 'serial tramping OW'. Your lashing at several of us. You were trying to hit a nerve with GG. You can't, she's showing class and not concerned about you. Aparently nerves were hit with you. Now you have thrown an accusation at me. Serial? back it up or shut up.
Tenacity Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Just shows how ignorant you are that you can't even see one was being sarcastic. Stupid trickin ass hoe. There was nothing to read sarcastic in your post. You just stated you never heard of it, outright. How would anyone possibly get that you were being sarcastic? I believe you know nothing about anything. You have zero clue about diseases, or anything else. You are incapable of reacting like a human, or to have emotions. Clearly you are BS and clearly you can't see past anything, and you hold you own situation against everyone. I feel very sorry for you. You need serious help.
BenThereDunThat Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 OK, I knew my post would be misunderstood. I expected that. First of all....I believe in monogamy. It's a beautiful, awesome thing that I don't ever think should be discounted. EVER. All I was saying, is that, fine...if you want to compare it to DOGS....the base need is there. Let's talk about vows and fidelity. I happen to believe that part of those vows is PHYSICAL LOVE. I'm not saying that the healthy partner should just go out and hump on any available fire hydrant. I'm just saying if that partner is the type of person who needs a physical release that self-pleasure can't give him/her, and that's what it takes to keep him/her sane (AND IN THE MARRIAGE/MARITAL HOME), rather than just freaking out and LEAVING (i.e., ABANDONING). Why not? They're just supposed to all of a sudden become a priest/nun? Obviously, the above scenario would not work in most situations. Had you asked me the same question 20 years ago, I would have had a completely different answer.
Gentlegirl Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I have this image of Mr harris, getting madder and madder, jumping up and down, steaming. It reminds me of a brat having a tanrum about goodness knows what. I am smiling. He certainly is a little ray of sunshine and a great addition the the site! Gentlegirl
waytogo Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Wow! "Cock licking tramp". Really? Two of the words are true, unfortunately, that isn't your reality.. Poor thing...... Not sure if you owe me screen clenser or I owe you, whatever would make you laugh out loud today. Hope you had a reason to laugh out loud today, even if I'm not the reason:)
woinlove Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Alzheimer's is such a tragic illness. It is not uncommon for those stricken by it to fall in love with someone new. A high profile example was Sandra Day O'Conner's husband. She accepted it gracefully but others feel betrayed and hurt even though the patient doesn't even remember he or she is married. One can't fault someone who is no longer is capable of remembering they are married but who still has the basic human needs of love and companionship. As to the caregiver, that is really something they have to decide and the H and W may have an understanding of how to handle what is to come. I know people who have faithfully cared for their spouses through this terrible illness and it is just heartbreaking no matter what. Some may find their strength in honoring vows and commitments that the other person no longer remembers and others may find strength in new human connections. GG, since your xMM sounded deficient, both in how he treated his W and you, I can't even imagine all the heartbreak.
waytogo Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I have this image of Mr harris, getting madder and madder, jumping up and down, steaming. It reminds me of a brat having a tanrum about goodness knows what. I am smiling. He certainly is a little ray of sunshine and a great addition the the site! Gentlegirl I finished a previous post without calling you a saint. I'll not make the same mistake again. You are a saint! I wish you so well in your the future of your R and all of your interests from today forward.
waytogo Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I wish we could get back to the OP. It's a good one that will bring out different points of view. Perhaps we can just ignore the troll and press. And yes, to be clear, I mean you MR. H. If we ignore, he will vanish.....just like his hard o...... The timing is probably good. I believe MR H has been bounced due inappropriate name calling, speaking when he hasn't a clue of what he speaks, etc. Back to the program
BenThereDunThat Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Just to be clear - I'm not talking about a situation where the "non-sexual" partner is battling a temporary illness. I'm talking life-long, no more sex, ever. Where a partner is totally and completely committed to their vows of taking care of their spouse....but, discreetly, really needs to just get laid now and again.
Woggle Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 When a person is permanently disabled and will never be the person they were I can sympathize with it and I can also understand a person in an abusive situation. These people who are with people who treat them well and are willing to do anything to make them happy but cheat because they are bored though are scum in my book to be perfectly honest.
SidLyon Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Gentle's husband had an incurable and mainly irreversible condition. I think if I were to be in that situation I might discuss it early with my H and try to agree that once the ill partner is beyond understating infidelity, then it would probably be acceptable for the healthy partner to find someone else. However as I understand it the BW of the MM she had the A with, did not have an incurable and irreversible illness, and for this reason in my opinion the A was not justified. I speak from experience. The BH of the OW (of my fWH) died not long before d-day. That she could continue to invade my marriage after having lost her own H was incomprehensible to me. She was clearly distraught at the death of her H but that didn't stop her continuing with trying to destroy my family (along with the help of my H of course). I am sad for GG's situation but would not consider her a "saint" for intruding into someone else's marriage. Many posters seem to be merely focusing on GG's infidelity which might be justifiable but there was other infidelity going on too... Sorry GG I am not having a go at you. I follow your story somewhat because we are in the same country, are in a similar age bracket and there is of course the death of the OW's husband commonality.
Jason Todd Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Just to be clear - I'm not talking about a situation where the "non-sexual" partner is battling a temporary illness. I'm talking life-long, no more sex, ever. Where a partner is totally and completely committed to their vows of taking care of their spouse....but, discreetly, really needs to just get laid now and again. From what I've read she said she stayed with him for 10 years without no sex, and directly calling him no husband because of that, as if somehow it was his fault for having Alzheimer's. She was not forced to stay in a sexless marriage for that long. She could have divorced him and still would've been able to see him or take care of him in some way. Sure she may have justifiably gotten some well deserved criticism along the way of divorce and in the aftermath, but that saves a lot of pain and drama for all of the families involved. It is extremely hard knowing that one's spouse is dying and that is to be acknowledged to a high degree. I have dealt with my deceased father having Alzheimer's so I know personally how it feels to sit there in that room, knowing that you're going to lose someone. However, still choosing to have an affair while the spouse you claim you love is on a bed DYING, is truly some of the lowest of the lowest behavior I have ever read about, and I question whether there was any love for there at all. There was absolutely no reason to cheat and the thought of having another man should not have even been considered. There are ways to cope with deep issues such as these such as. When a spouse has a terminal disease that is the time you're supposed to be spending with them until their last breath, not running off with some other guy that you barely know. To me that just reeks of carelessness. Just my two cents.
BenThereDunThat Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 First of all, the original question was "Is infidelity ever justifiable?" Second of all, I was in the room as my mother lay dying, so don't even. The question was asked, is it ever justifiable and I answered that yes, sometimes I do think it is. My father would NEVER....EVER even think about cheating on my mother while she was on her death bed. BUT....(and we were "lucky" that her illness took her quickly)....had she been sick for years on end, and my dad (ew, can't believe I'm even saying this), had to do what he had to do to be there for us and my mom...all I'm saying is, I wouldn't be thrilled with it, but, really, I'd rather not know. All I would know is that he was there for us, for HER, when we needed him most.
silktricks Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Well several years ago I was having a conversation with my ex about this very thing. He was extremely anti-affair and anti-cheating. I am too, but in this particular conversation I was playing devils advocate for the cheater and creating hypothetical scenarios where I thought it might be understandable. First of all I mentioned the physically unable to have sex scenario. His response was much like the others here. He said then the couple needs to talk about it and figure out ways to stay sexually connected even if there cannot be actual intercourse. Then I brought up the mentally incompacitated theory. I said what if the spouse is brain damaged, or has alzheimers and they are no longer capable of understanding their partners needs? and what if there is no way that they are ever going to know that their partner is cheating and they wouldn't fully comprehend it even if they did know? What then? He said then that is not a real marriage and the healthy spouse needs to divorce the ill one. Well I was aghast at that response! I said but what if the healthy spouse truly loves the ill spouse and doesn't want to abandon that person just because they are sick? What if the healthy spouse really wants to take care of their sick spouse and be there for them in their time of need. I loved his response to this even though his answer sounded a little far fetched. He said who says you couldn't still be there for the sick spouse and still take care of them after the divorce? Heck, you could even still live with the sick spouse full time and take care of them 24/7, but get a divorce so that you are not dishonoring your marriage or the spouse when you are getting some loving on the side. A marriage is partnership and a commitment to fidelity so if you feel that the your spouse is no longer your partner and you can no longer honor your commitment then treat the marriage with dignity and properly end it. You can still be a loving caregiver even if you are no longer legally married to each other. I loved that answer! It sounded so honorable and right. At the same time I can see how it might be incredibly difficult to divorce a spouse who is sick or mentally checked out. First of all it would be very hard for other people too understand it. Most would probably doubt your commitment to love and care for your spouse once you tell them that you are going to get divorced. They would probably see that as the first step to abandoning a spouse in their time of need, so the healthy spouse would probably take a lot of heat for seeking a divorce, at least initially. I'm not saying this is wrong, but what if it is your (the healthy spouse's) insurance policy that is taking care of the terminal spouse. Do you still think divorce would be the best answer? I (again personally) do not. I think it's possible that taking care of your own needs, so that you can continue to to take care of your spouses needs is possibly the least painful and in the end best answer.
Gentlegirl Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Gentle's husband had an incurable and mainly irreversible condition. I think if I were to be in that situation I might discuss it early with my H and try to agree that once the ill partner is beyond understating infidelity, then it would probably be acceptable for the healthy partner to find someone else. However as I understand it the BW of the MM she had the A with, did not have an incurable and irreversible illness, and for this reason in my opinion the A was not justified. I speak from experience. The BH of the OW (of my fWH) died not long before d-day. That she could continue to invade my marriage after having lost her own H was incomprehensible to me. She was clearly distraught at the death of her H but that didn't stop her continuing with trying to destroy my family (along with the help of my H of course). I am sad for GG's situation but would not consider her a "saint" for intruding into someone else's marriage. Many posters seem to be merely focusing on GG's infidelity which might be justifiable but there was other infidelity going on too... Sorry GG I am not having a go at you. I follow your story somewhat because we are in the same country, are in a similar age bracket and there is of course the death of the OW's husband commonality. It's alright SidLyon... you are entitled to having your say and your opinion. YOu are being civil about it and that's what this board is all about surely? We all come at things from a certain perspective. Yes I did discuss it all with my husband while he was still rational and at the beginning of the disease. There were physical cirumstances with xMM's wife also but that's his story not mine. I own every little bit of everything I did. It happened and I was responsible. I am certainly no saint. I still have to live with it and that I do privately. I believe I was called a saint because I didn't bite Mr H.... why would anybody be bothered. Best wishes Gentlegirl
silktricks Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Surprised Paul didn't close this down after all these years. There is no excuse for affairs. None. Oh my. A new head on the hydra.
Jason Todd Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I'm not saying this is wrong, but what if it is your (the healthy spouse's) insurance policy that is taking care of the terminal spouse. Do you still think divorce would be the best answer? I (again personally) do not. I think it's possible that taking care of your own needs, so that you can continue to to take care of your spouses needs is possibly the least painful and in the end best answer. Uh since when was sex ever a need? Since when was cheating ever a need?
Jason Todd Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Dear Mr. Harris/Jason Todd, Don't know where is this coming from? Glad you're back! You were missed for the 11 minutes you were gone. You don't fool any of us with your new name and same hateful agenda, but glad you have a place to go in your little existence. In regards to Mr.Harris I don't know what you're rambling about. In regards to agendas and existence, I think as stated in the TOS/community guidelines I have a right to post just as much as you so it's a moot point what you're assuming. It may "reek of carelessness" but until you've walked in HER shoes, perhaps it may be best to keep your self serving thoughts to yourself. One doesn't need to walk in her shoes to see that having an affair is wrong and as I stated before, this is a public board. (You know, in the privacy of your one room, hotel suite..) Oh wait, suite, might be to grandiose a word..... But you get it. I guess this was an attempt to make me feel bad? I'm sure you must have been hurt horribly, and for that, I'm truly sorry. Perhaps, you can work on YOUR stuff, and not feel the need to bash a woman who went through unspeakable acts with a dying husband. "Unspeakable acts?" Such as what? Grieving is not something no one knows about. Just a thought. Good night.. I'll say a little prayer for ya. Okkkayyy......:rolleyes:
Jason Todd Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Let's review JT... Ummmmmmmmmm, since the beginning of (oh, I don't know) time. Perhaps that will be in your future one day.. Ooooh,,, goodie. :D:D Sex is not a need nor is having an affair a need. Sorry.
Jason Todd Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Good night, sad, lonely, dejected, arrogant, Mr. Harris... See ya tomorrow, sucka... Talk about lame and childish. You're confused with someone else.
alexandria35 Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I'm not saying this is wrong, but what if it is your (the healthy spouse's) insurance policy that is taking care of the terminal spouse. Do you still think divorce would be the best answer? I (again personally) do not. I think it's possible that taking care of your own needs, so that you can continue to to take care of your spouses needs is possibly the least painful and in the end best answer. Somebody else already mentioned this and I did concede that divorce may not be the kindest option in that situation.
alexandria35 Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Sex is not a need nor is having an affair a need. Sorry. Have to admit, I do agree with this. Has nobody on this board ever been celibate for an extended period of time? Cause I have and I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one. I don't do meaningless sex. I don't have one night stands or friends with benefits sex. Just not my style and since I am not always in a committed relationship that means no sex sometimes. After I broke up with my kids dad I was completely single for 5 years. I didn't have any sex during this time because my focus was on my kids and I just wasn't interested in getting romantically involved with anyone. I did have a very strong healthy sex drive but somehow I managed to abstain without going insane (somebody else said "what if having an affair is the only way to stay sane"). Sexual release is a need but I think we all know how to meet that need ourselves.
Mutant Debutante Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Well for one thing ten years is a loooong time to be celibate. Not everybody can hack that. But I think y'all are getting sidetracked. YOu really think the only thing she was missing was sex, in those ten years? Have you ever watched somebody fall away with Alzheimers? It's different from person to person. Some of them get violent and angry all the time. Some of them just have no idea who the hell you are. Some of them get lost in different memories, maybe think you're some old girlfriend from when they were in high school. That would hurt! Some of them just...go inside themselves, and then they're gone. Sometimes you get all of that at different times, plus they can't use the bathroom anymore, they wander outside and get lost and take the bus to the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, and it's exhausting. And if it's your husband, I guess there's nobody else really there to take the burden off you or to talk to, like you're married but you're married to an empty spot. I guess the needs not being met are not just sex, at that point. It really seems like a big oversimplification to say it was about having sex, in GG's case.
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