Can infidelity EVER be justified?

[tobeornottobe]

Do you know of, or can you portray a scenario where in marriage infidelity may be justifiable?

[Owl]

I'm sure you'll get a ton of responses...seems to me that anyone involved in an affair has to believe it's justified in some fashion or another.

[KathyM]

It can never be justified. It is a selfish act that betrays the marriage vows and does permanent irreparable damage to the bond that the married couple had. There is no excuse for infidelity.

[BenThereDunThat]

Sometimes, yes. I will get flamed for this but I don't care. It's what I believe. (and I'm heading out the door so I won't be able to respond again until later. lol)

 

Say two people have a long, loving marriage with a healthy sex life.

 

Something happens (illness, accident) to one partner rendering them unable to have sex. Or maybe the partner just wants to shut that part of the relationship down for good for whatever reason.

 

The one partner still has sexual needs - and I mean sex, not making love. Not pleasuring themselves in the middle of the night to internet porn while the other is asleep.

 

But, the couple are still very much in love and plan to stay together forever. Is it fair to ask a sexual being to just cut that part of themselves off forever? If they're happily willing to do that, then fine.

 

But if not....are they just supposed to suck it up and still be the care-taker, loving partner, member of the family without that much needed release....again, depends on the person and their individual drives. Drives which I believe are innate.

 

The ideal scenario would be for them to be able to talk openly about it, where the one gets their sexual needs met with the other's permission, with clear rules and boundaries set around it.

 

If not, is it so bad for the care-taker to do what he/she needs to do to stay sane and otherwise remain a giving, functioning member of the family unit?

 

Monogamy is the ideal, of course, but I do feel sometimes there are exceptions.

[JaneyAmazed]

I think that during the affair, the APs can justify especially if there is "love" involved. The blind, romantic "they just don't understand us" love. I got caught up in the "how can this be wrong if it feels so right" way of thinking. After the affair, and after I saw what I did to my H and to my marriage, I know nothing can justify what I did. I also saw how crazy I was to even have those thoughts. I do regret it and I don't have the same thoughts I had then. I read somewhere recently, and I agree... "There is no right way to the wrong thing."

[TinaniT]

It always feels justified. I'm not sure if that means it is.

 

 

In my case, my husband treated me very poorly, told me he didn't love me, but still refused a divorce. (And refused the money for me to go to counseling)

 

I still think now I shouldn't have cheated and should have pushed it anyways and figured a way for my son and I to get by...

 

But where I was mentally at the time, I just didn't have the strength.

 

And there's the root of it. There should always be something else, ending the relationship, before the infidelity. But for whatever reason, and different situations mean different reasons, the strength is lacking.

 

So while I'm not quite sure I can say it is justifiable, I do think it's not evil, and that it sometimes does work out for the better in the end.

[KathyM]

^^^^

:bunny:

 

Where's the hypocrisy in my post? I said there is no excuse for infidelity. There's nothing hypocritical about that statement.

[NoIDidn't]

Where's the hypocrisy in my post? I said there is no excuse for infidelity. There's nothing hypocritical about that statement.

 

That's his signature line. Its at the bottom of all of his posts.

[KathyM]

Sometimes, yes. I will get flamed for this but I don't care. It's what I believe. (and I'm heading out the door so I won't be able to respond again until later. lol)

 

Say two people have a long, loving marriage with a healthy sex life.

 

Something happens (illness, accident) to one partner rendering them unable to have sex. Or maybe the partner just wants to shut that part of the relationship down for good for whatever reason.

 

The one partner still has sexual needs - and I mean sex, not making love. Not pleasuring themselves in the middle of the night to internet porn while the other is asleep.

 

But, the couple are still very much in love and plan to stay together forever. Is it fair to ask a sexual being to just cut that part of themselves off forever? If they're happily willing to do that, then fine.

 

But if not....are they just supposed to suck it up and still be the care-taker, loving partner, member of the family without that much needed release....again, depends on the person and their individual drives. Drives which I believe are innate.

 

The ideal scenario would be for them to be able to talk openly about it, where the one gets their sexual needs met with the other's permission, with clear rules and boundaries set around it.

 

If not, is it so bad for the care-taker to do what he/she needs to do to stay sane and otherwise remain a giving, functioning member of the family unit?

 

Monogamy is the ideal, of course, but I do feel sometimes there are exceptions.

In the rare case that one spouse is not able to have intercourse, there are other ways of satisfying each other and maintaining a physical connection. There really is no excuse for infidelity. If the spouse is not interested in sex anymore, then efforts need to be made to find out why and work on that part of the relationship. They are supposed to fulfill each other's needs. When your spouse stops the intimacy, that is the time to find out why and work on getting the relationship back to where it needs to be. It is not the time to go do it with somebody else. That would only be destructive.

[KathyM]

That's his signature line. Its at the bottom of all of his posts.

Oh, allright. ; )

[KathyM]

I say, no. It's never justified, though while you're in to A you sure do try.

 

Oh and Kathy M. He wasn't calling you a hypocrite, that's his signature line. He agreed with your post.

I'm new to this board, so I didn't know if that was an original statement, or what. I like your signature statement about the tin foil, and I'm glad somebody agrees with me. No excuses for infidelity. It's destructive.

[MissBee]

Do you know of, or can you portray a scenario where in marriage infidelity may be justifiable?

 

Anyone can justify anything under the the sun....so yea, technically.

 

Every scenario I'm trying to think of in my head I also think okay I'd also just tell the person I wanted out .

 

If you're married and your spouse goes to prison for life...but then if that were me, if I thought you were guilty then we're getting a divorce anyway but if not, then maybe in that case. But even then, I wouldn't expect my partner who is free in the world to also be punished to not having anyone else while I serve life and would hope they felt the same, but some discussion about that would have to happen.

 

So I can't think of it...I think some cases, like the above seem more "understandable" but not justifiable.

[KathyM]

Welcome Kathy. Sorry, I didn't mean to repeat about the signature, guess NID hit the enter key first...

Thank you. It's kind of interesting to read about some of the problems people are having on here. It's a good place to anonymously get some feedback or free advice from a variety of people.

[silktricks]

If by infidelity you also mean sneaking and deceiving (which it usually does), then no not ever. However, if by infidelity, you mean one partner is for some reason incapacitated and/or unavailable, and the two partners together decide that sex with others is OK because of it, then yes, I think it would be OK. I don't think it's a good idea, but I think it can be justified.

[KathyM]

Having sex with someone else other than your spouse builds a bond with another individual that takes away from the bond in a marriage. Should never be done under any circumstances. There are other ways of satisfying your spouse physically if intercourse is not possible.

[waytogo]

If by infidelity you also mean sneaking and deceiving (which it usually does), then no not ever. However, if by infidelity, you mean one partner is for some reason incapacitated and/or unavailable, and the two partners together decide that sex with others is OK because of it, then yes, I think it would be OK. I don't think it's a good idea, but I think it can be justified.

 

I was actually thinking of the 'Schively', not sure if spelled right, case. The wife was in a vegetated state for years. He did move on and start a family. He stayed married due a court battle with her parents to have feeding tubes removed which a number of people have said, when she was well of course, was what she would wish if she were ever in such a state. If he had D her, he couldn't fight for W wishes. I don't consider what he did an A. He took plenty of crap and spent plenty of $ to do the last thing he could for W. It would have been much easier for him to D and let it all be W's family's problem.

[OldOnTheInside]

Hmmm...

 

Say my daughter and wife were kidnapped by a crazy axe murderer, and the police were about to break down the door and rescue them. And the axe murderer plans on executing my daughter in 1 minute. If the only way to keep the axe murderer distracted is for my wife to have sex with him, that would be justifiable in my eyes.

 

If you want a serious answer, I would say that "justified" is probably not the best word. Perhaps "sympathetic" or "understandable" like MB said, would be better.

 

Anyone can justify anything under the the sun....so yea, technically.

A cunning linguist could probably justify screwing a donkey. People have certainly justified worse things.

 

However, if by infidelity, you mean one partner is for some reason incapacitated and/or unavailable, and the two partners together decide that sex with others is OK because of it, then yes, I think it would be OK.

Open relationships are a whole other ball game.

 

But yeah, once you start sneaking around, the question of whether something is morally justified, is actually quite hard to answer entirely IMO. Unless you have a huge ego I guess.

 

I mean, I could justify punching somebody in the face who was getting overly-aggressive towards a friend, but that would just be what I think. Everybody else may or may not have differing opinions.

[silktricks]

Having sex with someone else other than your spouse builds a bond with another individual that takes away from the bond in a marriage. Should never be done under any circumstances. There are other ways of satisfying your spouse physically if intercourse is not possible.

 

I agree with you. That's why I said I didn't think it was a good idea.

[bentnotbroken]

Do you know of, or can you portray a scenario where in marriage infidelity may be justifiable?

 

 

Not having read the other comments yet, Yes! Everything can be justified.

[carhill]

I'm sure a skilled debater could justify most anything but, IMO, having been a MM, there is no justification for the betrayal and de-prioritization of an agreement of fidelity and monogamy. It is what it is. Own it.

 

The most common 'justification' I've heard, mainly from MW's, is 'well we didn't have sex and I didn't really love him, so hence, nothing happened'. What really happens is they say the words 'I love you' to manipulate and validate, de-prioritze their M, bring another person into their personal and private marital business and demean their spouse in the process. However, no dickinisder, no 'affair' and no 'cheating', no matter what lies were told and what deceptions were effected. There's your 'justification'. Me, I'm not skilled enough at such matters. I merely had an affair.

 

One perspective.

[Gentlegirl]

Ok guys:

 

My personal experience.

 

Dearly loved husband was 75 and had Alzheimer's disease for 10 years.

 

I was 60 and cared for him at home until 6 months before he died.

 

No sex life for 10 years, no husband for 10 years ( since I was 50). As a person I had lost him to the disease many years ago.

 

I had to put him into full time care after he had a fall and broke his hip.... I was visitng the nursing home every day after work.

 

Met xMM and fell into the A. It just happened at a time in my life when I was trying to cope with being alone in every possible way and taking care of my husband's needs.

 

In some ways it helped me through my husband's last months until he passed away. At the end the A got very intense and turned into a mess as they tend to do.

 

People can act out of character in extreme cirumstances. In my case it was something I had never done before and never will again. I am now 64, the affair is behind me after much pain and I am dating a SINGLE man ,

 

Gentlegirl

[waytogo]

Ok guys:

 

My personal experience.

 

Dearly loved husband was 75 and had Alzheimer's disease for 10 years.

 

I was 60 and cared for him at home until 6 months before he died.

 

No sex life for 10 years, no husband for 10 years ( since I was 50). As a person I had lost him to the disease many years ago.

 

I had to put him into full time care after he had a fall and broke his hip.... I was visitng the nursing home every day after work.

 

Met xMM and fell into the A. It just happened at a time in my life when I was trying to cope with being alone in every possible way and taking care of my husband's needs.

 

In some ways it helped me through my husband's last months until he passed away. At the end the A got very intense and turned into a mess as they tend to do.

 

People can act out of character in extreme cirumstances. In my case it was something I had never done before and never will again. I am now 64, the affair is behind me after much pain and I am dating a SINGLE man ,

 

Gentlegirl

 

 

GG, so sorry about your H. You outside of your M is a case I would equate to the Schively circumstance I noted previously. Ideally, it would have been a SM you found that comfort. Same goes for me when I was mourning losses. I found myself with xMM also.

 

I don't feel you cheated on your H in that case. The illness took your H in everyway but his breath b4 you sought companionship. I also did something I had never done b4 during a difficult time and will never do again. Congrats on your current R

[fooled once]

I'm sure you'll get a ton of responses...seems to me that anyone involved in an affair has to believe it's justified in some fashion or another.

 

I agree.

 

Sometimes, yes. I will get flamed for this but I don't care. It's what I believe. (and I'm heading out the door so I won't be able to respond again until later. lol)

 

Say two people have a long, loving marriage with a healthy sex life.

 

Something happens (illness, accident) to one partner rendering them unable to have sex. Or maybe the partner just wants to shut that part of the relationship down for good for whatever reason.

 

The one partner still has sexual needs - and I mean sex, not making love. Not pleasuring themselves in the middle of the night to internet porn while the other is asleep.

 

But, the couple are still very much in love and plan to stay together forever. Is it fair to ask a sexual being to just cut that part of themselves off forever? If they're happily willing to do that, then fine.

 

But if not....are they just supposed to suck it up and still be the care-taker, loving partner, member of the family without that much needed release....again, depends on the person and their individual drives. Drives which I believe are innate.

 

The ideal scenario would be for them to be able to talk openly about it, where the one gets their sexual needs met with the other's permission, with clear rules and boundaries set around it.

 

If not, is it so bad for the care-taker to do what he/she needs to do to stay sane and otherwise remain a giving, functioning member of the family unit?

 

Monogamy is the ideal, of course, but I do feel sometimes there are exceptions.

 

You are kidding right? So if a person has an accident or a severe illness that renders intercourse possible, then it means the person who is married to the ill/disabled person can go screw whoever they want because their spouse can't have sex? Really?

 

Nope, still not in agreement. It is an excuse. Marriage isn't all about sex. That is what so many people cannot understand, IMHO. Marriage is about MORE than sex. ANYONE can have sex. Dogs have sex. 14 year olds have sex.

 

NOW, if the spouse who is disabled and unable to have sex AGREES, without pushing or relentless nagging from the 'healthy' spouse, then maybe, maybe. But we all know that many times women cannot just have sex; they become emotionally bonded.

 

So I am right back to now When you choose to marry someone, you promise fidelity. If you don't/can't be faithful, OWN UP TO IT and let your spouse know and give THEM the option on how they want to continue.

 

It always feels justified. I'm not sure if that means it is.

 

In my case, my husband treated me very poorly, told me he didn't love me, but still refused a divorce. (And refused the money for me to go to counseling)

 

I still think now I shouldn't have cheated and should have pushed it anyways and figured a way for my son and I to get by...

 

But where I was mentally at the time, I just didn't have the strength.

 

And there's the root of it. There should always be something else, ending the relationship, before the infidelity. But for whatever reason, and different situations mean different reasons, the strength is lacking.

 

So while I'm not quite sure I can say it is justifiable, I do think it's not evil, and that it sometimes does work out for the better in the end.

 

Good post. I don't agree that 'sometimes it works out better in the end'; because you have aren't taking into account how the betrayed spouse feels, how the kids feel, how the family feels, etc. I know for you and your now H it worked out great, but not so great for all the other people affected by your actions.

 

I do think you make a great point about strength.

 

I also had a crappy first marriage - many of the same things you discussed. I just took a different path. I chose to divorce; you chose to have an affair. We both ended up with new husbands and we are both stepmoms I have been in this marriage and the blended family life for 13+ years; and it has been TOUGH at times and we didn't have a foundation built on lies and disrespect (not necessarily towards each other; but to others). I wish you the best of luck and I mean that sincerely.

 

If by infidelity you also mean sneaking and deceiving (which it usually does), then no not ever. However, if by infidelity, you mean one partner is for some reason incapacitated and/or unavailable, and the two partners together decide that sex with others is OK because of it, then yes, I think it would be OK. I don't think it's a good idea, but I think it can be justified.

 

Ditto Silk.

[waytogo]

Wow. Your husband was sick and died and you were cheating all that time. This is exactly why I will forever have my guard up.

 

That's not what she wrote. Why would you infere that? She said she went 10 years without sex, and it wasn't just sex she was missing. The companionship, someone to help with challenges. Those things are an extreme void while dealing with hardship.

 

The writing was well on the wall in her case. The H she had was not coming back to her life. He wasn't even in a real state of living. I've seen the disease more than once. She was widowed well b4 he was no longer breathing. If it had been a physically debilitating disease but his mind was still there, I'd be less empathetic. She couldn't even have a real conversation and muse over past better times with him. I am very anti-affair at this point in my life. I do not see this woman as someone who was cheating.

[Tenacity]

Wow. Your husband was sick and died and you were cheating all that time. This is exactly why I will forever have my guard up.

 

OMG. This is unreal. This is beyond unbelievable.

 

Are you even human, Harris? Did you read her post? Did you walk a mile in her shoes?