SmileFace Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 You actually make a good point. I guess my irritation is that I am aware that I have a dubious past and I've tried really hard to compensate for that or even overcompensate for that and it seems like when everything in my past comes to light, nothing else matters but my past. And no, I have no idea who that is. I hope he lives far far away from me. I am not one to give advice. I started a thread like this not to long ago. I didn't post it to get validation. I know my past isn't the best and my post proved my insercurities about it. However, I did learn from my thread. I learned that I can't change my past but only make a better future for myself. One that I am proud of. I learned that I shouldn't live in the past but in the present. Anyway goodluck with all.
DepressedinDenver Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I think thats the problem. They may not think you are promiscuous at this point in time but they know you have in the past so theres a chance you still could be and yes that makes younger men uneasy.
Author misssmartypants Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 Punishment is punitive. Responsibility is healthy. None of us are perfect. TBH, I dated a few single mothers with histories like yours as a much younger man. No one twisted my arm. I thought and felt that everyone who demonstrated responsibility and growth were equals in my eyes. However, due to marked differences in family and relationship history, I found the potentials to be incompatible, mainly emotionally. They were to 'hard' for me, toughened by their difficult history. I desired someone to be intimate with and who could be openly intimate with and caring of myself. It was just hard for them, as they had learned a completely different method of dealing with the world. I tried it, gave it my best shot for many years (I was mostly single until I got married at 41) and found it not to be my path. Looked at another way, men like myself are not on your path. That doesn't mean either are wrong or right or bad or good, merely different people on different paths. All of us can live long and fruitful lives. I hope we do. Good luck I don't understand. If I wasn't a little hard I wouldn't have survived. I don't know how not to be who I am. I've tried to change things in my life so I didn't end up like a lot of people I am related to or grew up with. But apparently none of that is good enough. I want a nice life and I think I have a right to hold out for a nice guy who isn't messed up or looking to use me. Why is that wrong?
Feelsgoodman Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Consequences being that I raise my kids and pay my debts... ...and have a disadvantage when it comes to dating. No one is "punishing" you. We are just stating the obvious, namely that your relationship history makes you less attractive as a dating prospect. You can't just wipe out your past. Your relationship history is not a consequence of making one bad choice. Rather, it reveals a pattern of behaviour. And there is no reason to believe that this pattern will not continue into the future. That's why men see your relationship history as a red flag.
Saxis Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I don't understand. If I wasn't a little hard I wouldn't have survived. I don't know how not to be who I am. I've tried to change things in my life so I didn't end up like a lot of people I am related to or grew up with. But apparently none of that is good enough. I want a nice life and I think I have a right to hold out for a nice guy who isn't messed up or looking to use me. Why is that wrong? It's not wrong... It's exactly what is right with you now. Are you mad that people are labeling you, or that not everyone is OK with your past and situation with kids, regardless of learning from your mistakes and stabilizing your life? You'll still have to realize that there will be VERY few men who won't judge you based on your past, and/or rare to find one that's OK with it. You have a lot on your plate for a man to deal with.
carhill Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 It's not 'wrong', it's merely incompatible with other psychologies. To put it another way, most of the women, at least those who gave 'reasons', found me too 'soft' for them. They didn't like 'mushy' gestures, like breakfast in bed and opening doors and caring about the details of their day. Hold...I got that wrong. They didn't find those aspects of my psychology *attractive*. I recall even my exW, who had endured a 'hard' life, looking at me sideways when I'd give her a handmade card for a special occasion or just for 'whatever'. It didn't 'compute' for her. If none of this describes you, it doesn't. We each walk our own paths. Today you learned something about mine.
Art_Critic Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 In your case it's not just being a poor people picker. It's also being a p*ssy and staying in an abusive relationship for years. I have very little sympathy for this type of people (especially men). People who take sh*t do so by choice. That's crap.. I wasn't a pussy because I stayed in my first marriage too long.. You really have a unrealistic view of marriage.. There was a child involved, MC was also an avenue that was pursued but became futile. My step daughter is better off today because I was able to give her some sense of stability for the time her Mom and I were married and for that I'm not a pussy.. actually I'm a helluva a step Dad
Feelsgoodman Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 What are you exactly mad about. You posted a thread and got answers. You know you, right? WTF does it matter what you hear here. Are you fycking "feelsgoodman", so why the hell does it matter what he says. You can only be offended if you agree. Deep down, she does agree.
carhill Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 OP, if you haven't read it already, try reading this thread which outlines various perspectives about capability or not for healthy relationships. It might reinforce positives which you feel about yourself and cause you to reflect on other aspects of your personality and psychology. More information is good information IMO. Since you're seeking information and insight, which I for one consider to be healthy, take it all in and see what comes out. Good luck
Iced Mocha Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 ...and have a disadvantage when it comes to dating. No one is "punishing" you. We are just stating the obvious, namely that your relationship history makes you less attractive as a dating prospect. You can't just wipe out your past. Your relationship history is not a consequence of making one bad choice. Rather, it reveals a pattern of behaviour. And there is no reason to believe that this pattern will not continue into the future. That's why men see your relationship history as a red flag. What exactly is her "relationship history" because I don't think that 7 is a high number at all.
carhill Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 What exactly is her "relationship history" because I don't think that 7 is a high number at all. The OP did a real honorable job of laying out her relationship history in the first post. As a comparison, my exSIL and her H had a 'shotgun wedding' when they were 17, had that child and one more and now have been married 27 years and are grandparents. If they were to divorce tomorrow and I were to meet her, I would see her 'relationship history' as having a perhaps unusual and potentially unhealthy start but history showed her and her H to make healthy decisions, even if it didn't work out in the end. Longevity underscores their success and her compatibility with a like-minded individual. Myself, I dated young ladies like the OP, even to the extent of having multiple children from different men without the benefit of marriage. I know what the experiences were like. I entered them with an open mind and no prejudice. I accepted the lessons those experiences taught, which I'm sharing here. She can take away from that information whatever is of value to her.
Author misssmartypants Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 Honestly carhill, I have no idea why you put that thread in here. Its pages and pages of bashing women. I have never cheated on a partner or used one for money. I don't spend most days of my regular life obsessing over my past relationships and how "they did me wrong" and I don't play manipulative games with people in order to get them to do what I want them to do. I live a good life and I've tried very hard to put a lot of things behind me. It seems like no matter how hard I try, I always feel like I am some sort of alien who doesn't think or react like I am supposed to. And I feel judged.
carhill Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Well, I've been bashed plenty in real life by women just like you, even women from LS, so you hopefully will appreciate my patience in providing a male's perspective in a calm manner. In any event, I'm out. Good luck in your pursuits.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 What exactly is her "relationship history" because I don't think that 7 is a high number at all. Read her posts and pay particular attention to such details as getting pregnant at 17, getting pregnant again from a guy who wanted nothing to do with her, marrying a con man, etc. It's not about the numbers.
shadowofman Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Im a semantic hardliner, but promiscuity is my favorite subject. If you have had more than one sexual partner in your lifetime, then you have acted out a degree of promiscuity. That does not mean you are promiscuously oriented. Maybe that was not the plan. Besides whether you have been or are being promiscuous. Everyone has a degree of promiscuousness. In other words, is being promiscuous something to tend toward regularly or only when the world is working against you. This is a question that no one can answer by reading your history. You have to decide your own level of promiscuousness.
Nexus One Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 To be really really really honest. It's possible for a guy to look beyond a woman's past if it's full of red flags. In order for a guy to do this he must be really into the woman, crushing like crazy, having thrown his rationality out of the window. For example considering to ignore red flags, diving in head first, going in knowing the relationship will crash and things like that. In this time window, in the months where the crush is most intense, a woman with a promiscuous past would have a chance to prove herself loyal. While this all is driven by biology, it IS hypocrisy on the part of many men and many guys DO have a double standard regarding the difference in "weight" between the sexual history of men and women. I'm not sure if I'm hypocrite in this department, but I would for example consider dating Lindsey Lohan ( http://bit.ly/pjYqme ) if she would be able to convince me that she's capable of a loyal relationship. I'm not sure what that means, perhaps that means that when a woman is beautiful enough, that my rational framework breaks down or that I hold women to double standards or that I'm a hypocrite, I don't know. I haven't really thoroughly reflected on it. What I'd find interesting to know though, when push comes to shove, how many of us, I mean people in general, both men and women, would have their rational framework break down if the person they liked was beautiful enough. I.e. how many would succumb under the biological pressure, and I don't mean sex drive, I mean the drive and longing to go for a certain person. It doesn't happen a lot, very rarely actually, but when looking at certain women I do notice it happening in me, i.e. my rational framework breaking down when the woman has a certain level of beauty. It makes me realize how strong visual attraction is, at least in men. I feel that in those situations I get my face pressed on the fact that in essence we humans are very sexual or love driven creatures, that it is a very strong part of our biology and a major part of who we are, even if we sometimes don't realize how great the influence is that it has over us.
Saxis Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 To be really really really honest. It's possible for a guy to look beyond a woman's past if it's full of red flags. In order for a guy to do this he must be really into the woman, crushing like crazy, having thrown his rationality out of the window. For example considering to ignore red flags, diving in head first, going in knowing the relationship will crash and things like that. You're definitely on to something here... Have you ever done online dating? That's a good place to reflect on this type of break down. I pretty much told myself that I would date a woman with ONE child. I have a child of my own and not sure that I'd ever want more than 2, so I pretty much just decided that was my limit. After a bit, I'd find myself messaging extremely hot women with 2 children. Never more than 2 though. It was just a bit of break down in what I was looking for. It has the reverse affect also... I'd find myself messaging women who I wasn't very attracted to physically and I'd probably not approach otherwise, but they matched very well or exceeded other criteria.
thatone Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 To be really really really honest. It's possible for a guy to look beyond a woman's past if it's full of red flags. In order for a guy to do this he must be really into the woman, crushing like crazy, having thrown his rationality out of the window. For example considering to ignore red flags, diving in head first, going in knowing the relationship will crash and things like that. In this time window, in the months where the crush is most intense, a woman with a promiscuous past would have a chance to prove herself loyal. While this all is driven by biology, it IS hypocrisy on the part of many men and many guys DO have a double standard regarding the difference in "weight" between the sexual history of men and women. I'm not sure if I'm hypocrite in this department, but I would for example consider dating Lindsey Lohan ( http://bit.ly/pjYqme ) if she would be able to convince me that she's capable of a loyal relationship. I'm not sure what that means, perhaps that means that when a woman is beautiful enough, that my rational framework breaks down or that I hold women to double standards or that I'm a hypocrite, I don't know. I haven't really thoroughly reflected on it. What I'd find interesting to know though, when push comes to shove, how many of us, I mean people in general, both men and women, would have their rational framework break down if the person they liked was beautiful enough. I.e. how many would succumb under the biological pressure, and I don't mean sex drive, I mean the drive and longing to go for a certain person. It doesn't happen a lot, very rarely actually, but when looking at certain women I do notice it happening in me, i.e. my rational framework breaking down when the woman has a certain level of beauty. It makes me realize how strong visual attraction is, at least in men. I feel that in those situations I get my face pressed on the fact that in essence we humans are very sexual or love driven creatures, that it is a very strong part of our biology and a major part of who we are, even if we sometimes don't realize how great the influence is that it has over us. yeah but how often does a man looking over those red flags invite them to fall back into their worst habits? pretty much always.
snug.bunny Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Definition: Having casual sexual relations frequently with different partners; indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners. Bolded/underlined for emphasis.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Whatever the sexual history is of a women, when she refuses to disclose it I start hearing sirens and see waving red flags all over the place. Because regardless of the history, if she wouldn't be willing to disclose it then she tells me three things at the very least. 1. "I don't care if I give you the wrong idea about myself. So if I have you thinking that I might be a slut, then I'm fine with that. Go along, break up with me over it." That's simply not the type of personality I'm looking for in an SO. 2. When I'm trying to check if a woman is good material for a long term relationship, yet she tells me that it's none of my business, then I consider that as an attempt to block me from making an informed decision on whether I want to build a future with her and hence I interpret that as disrespect. If that kind of attitude is going to define our relationship, then that's not the kind of relationship I'm looking for. 3. When a woman says or thinks: "That's none of your business", then who is she going to trust, if not me, her SO. This is how I feel as well. I don't ask for details... I don't care, but I typically want an overview. I want to know what her views on sex are and what types of relationships she has engaged in before I emotionally invest. I've found most women want the same in return. I see what you are saying, but if you turn it around, I haven't slept with a huge number of men, but I'm still getting crap for my history, so in a way a woman can't win. I think the only way you can "check" to see if a person is good material for a long term relationship, is to know them over a period of time. Trust is something that has to be built. I know I have trouble trusting people. But early in a relationship is not the time to demand a huge amount of trust and neither is grilling a woman about her past. I usually don't come out and say "I'm not telling you anything" about my past. If they ask I tell the truth, I was married and I was the one who left. I just don't go into details about "cute guy from work" or "cheater from college". They don't matter, they're in the past. Bullcrap. By being honest you actually weed out the guys that would be uncomfortable with the real you in the first place. That IS winning. Losing is getting into a relationship with a guy that judges your past harshly. That is pure stupid when early honesty can prevent it. I also get the feeling that you actively seek flawed men. That you also push them away intentionally. You think of yourself as hard... but I don't think you really are on the inside. My guess is that you got kicked around by something as a kid. It doesn't happen a lot, very rarely actually, but when looking at certain women I do notice it happening in me, i.e. my rational framework breaking down when the woman has a certain level of beauty. It makes me realize how strong visual attraction is, at least in men. I feel that in those situations I get my face pressed on the fact that in essence we humans are very sexual or love driven creatures, that it is a very strong part of our biology and a major part of who we are, even if we sometimes don't realize how great the influence is that it has over us. I would say I had this issue when I was very young, but not since I turned 23. Having been married to a gorgeous but totally insane woman... I can now ignore looks better than most.
shadowofman Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I take issue with this definition. So If I am only sexually active with blondes of a certain body type, does that mean I am not promiscuous? And if I'm only sexually active with partners that tell me that they love me, do that mean I am not promiscuous? How frequent is too frequent? A new partner every 6 months? Every year? If I know I tend to fall in love quickly and fast, and so I make attempts to keep things casual in order to avoid being hurt, is this a mark on my promiscuity card? Face it. Anyone that has not been 100% monogamous is some degree promiscuous. And promiscuous people might have a high tendancy toward monogamousness. It's ok if things didn't work out as planned.
snug.bunny Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I take issue with this definition. Judging by your posts alone, my impression of you, is VERY promiscuous. Or, a highly sexed/sexually charged individual. --------------------> Would you agree?
Author misssmartypants Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 I also get the feeling that you actively seek flawed men. That you also push them away intentionally. Its more like I don't feel like I can "get" a non-flawed or normal guy so I don't even show interest. I keep almost everyone at arm's length. Being around me is like being in the CIA, everything is "need to know". I don't know why I do it. I'm just really nervous to let people "know" me. My guess is that you got kicked around by something as a kid. That's an understatement. There are things I won't tell anyone. Not even here.
Nexus One Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Being around me is like being in the CIA, everything is "need to know". I don't know why I do it. I'm just really nervous to let people "know" me. That's an understatement. There are things I won't tell anyone. Not even here. If I had to make a guess I'd say it's because you don't want to get hurt and you don't want to give people any ammunition to fire at you. You fear that if you'd expose the real you to someone, that they'd probably think you aren't good enough. And that's why you didn't want to expose your past either. A valid reason, but men initially can't smell your true motives behind something you say. So they might get the wrong idea when you let them draw their own conclusions. I think a guy that would be right for you would be one that is able to disarm you, make you drop your armor, if only bit by bit. Perhaps with you it's just a slow process as you perhaps have thick defenses due to having been burned by negative experiences in the past. Am I right? Edited July 8, 2011 by Nexus One
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Its more like I don't feel like I can "get" a non-flawed or normal guy so I don't even show interest. I keep almost everyone at arm's length. Being around me is like being in the CIA, everything is "need to know". I don't know why I do it. I'm just really nervous to let people "know" me. That's an understatement. There are things I won't tell anyone. Not even here. I can tell you didn't have it easy growing up. I don't think you can understand who you are today without understanding what you have been through. At this point you should know exactly why you went for all these toolboxes. I know that being intimate is very hard... probably 10 times harder for you... but it's worth it. To have a man you love and respect see every bump, every flaw you have, yet still look you in the eyes and say "I accept them and love you". That is powerful.
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