The next question would be..

[wheelwright]

On the thread 'cheating normal?' the general discussion pointed in favour of this being so, but that certain ethical guidelines make people capable of long term fidelity. And on the whole, this was favoured, even if deviations were in the main understood.

 

So I want to ask: Why the big stink?

 

I don't really judge people badly if they show infidelity, if they also show some honesty about what they do. I don't like serial cheaters or players, as they seem to have lost any soul in their sexual encounters. Mainly because I could not imagine feeling good in myself if I were like that.

 

One friend told me tonight she would like to have sexual encounters with others, but she doesn't because it would cause her partner too much hurt. She has no desire for a new 'love' though.

 

As I have been in love, I understand fidelity. Being in love does preclude the love of others, and that exclusivity is both natural and bonding.

 

So my question/thesis at this point is along the lines of:

 

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

Or that the defined order, where one of the above is true, simply isn't true.

 

That's why there's a stink. Maybe?

[wheelwright]

if your theory is correct, then no wayward spouse could possibly love their affair partner either, as, if they did, then how could they possibly stay in a marriage when they loved their affair partner...how could they ever hurt someone like that whom they claim to love?

 

I think people really are complex creatures, and that since each perso is different, trying to put them into little boxes based upon whether or not they have engaged in an affair ( whether they are the married person or the affair partner) is impossible.

 

Good answer, from my mindset.

 

PS - you're not meant to answer the whole thing in one go. There's meant to be a discussion!

[MissBee]

Are you asking what is the big stink about infidelity? I read the whole thing but wasn't sure of the actual question.

[wheelwright]

Are you asking what is the big stink about infidelity? I read the whole thing but wasn't sure of the actual question.

 

Put simply, why does something so prevalent cause so much pain for us all?

 

I feel we look at the effects not the cause of the pain.

 

But I worded my post carefully, and the full question is there if you are interested.

[xxoo]

Put simply, why does something so prevalent cause so much pain for us all?

.

 

It isn't so prevalent that we desensitize to. For most, being cheated on is a traumatic life event that happens once to a few times over a lifetime, if at all.

 

Death of a loved one is similarly prevalent, but causes pain. Prevalence of a traumatic experience doesn't necessarily reduce the pain.

 

Furthermore, I disagree that loving one makes it impossible to love another. I believe many of us are capable of polyamory--loving more than one romantic partner at a time.

[xxoo]

WW--breaking up with a lover is prevalent, moreso than being betrayed. And it is painful. Wasn't it painful for you to break up with your affair partner? Did the prevalence....the normality of the situation as a human experience....make it hurt less?

[MissBee]

Put simply, why does something so prevalent cause so much pain for us all?

 

I feel we look at the effects not the cause of the pain.

 

But I worded my post carefully, and the full question is there if you are interested.

 

I don't think prevalence precludes the pain. Death and dying are prevalent and inevitable realities, but no matter that knowledge, it still hurts like hell...

[MissBee]

It isn't so prevalent that we desensitize to. For most, being cheated on is a traumatic life event that happens once to a few times over a lifetime, if at all.

 

Death of a loved one is similarly prevalent, but causes pain. Prevalence of a traumatic experience doesn't necessarily reduce the pain.

 

Furthermore, I disagree that loving one makes it impossible to love another. I believe many of us are capable of polyamory--loving more than one romantic partner at a time.

 

Yea I share the same sentiment.

 

I think the bottom line with regards to infidelity is the lies/deceit and feelings of betrayal that is at the crux. In our closest interpersonal relationships (marriage/romance being one of the closest) we come to believe that this person cares for us, they won't hurt us purposefully, we can let our hair down with them and while we may be fully aware that the rest of the world is harsh, we expect our families, closest friends and of course spouse/partner to be that exception and that solace from a harsh outside world and we trust them.

 

When that is shattered through affairs or some other indiscretion, then it is going to be painful. It's not solely infidelity, but all acts that involve a breach of trust, disrespect or betrayal, in any relationship, whether romantic or otherwise hurts. The more deliberate the act is or seems to be, the more painful.

[jwi71]

So I want to ask: Why the big stink?

 

I believe the "stink" exists because the actions are rooted in betrayal - and traitors are globally not well received. I have spent more than half my life in foreign lands and betrayal is NEVER seen as a good thing. Across cultures, religions, age and sex - betrayal is universally bad.

 

And when the treachery is in matters of the heart - you simply add more fuel to the fire.

 

I don't really judge people badly if they show infidelity, if they also show some honesty about what they do. I don't like serial cheaters or players, as they seem to have lost any soul in their sexual encounters. Mainly because I could not imagine feeling good in myself if I were like that

.

 

This would be true if the WS confessed their actions to the BS. Of course, at that point the A ends and an open M begins. Its extraordinarily hard to say one is "honestly cheating" when the BS is in the dark. The one person who is being cheated on, the BS, doesn't know - so Im not sure there is any honesty involved.

 

As I have been in love, I understand fidelity. Being in love does preclude the love of others, and that exclusivity is both natural and bonding.

 

This is interesting. Being in love with one precludes love of another. My first reaction is to agree. I expect this line to be most unpopular with OM/OW. It completely invalidates their position (for the most part).

 

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

I do not agree. I think by and large most DO love their BS, just are unhappy, bored MLC, whatever....and hence they stray. I see this in the conflict my own xWW exhibited and in the descriptions of MM/MW here.

 

I think that line of thought is misguided.

[Owl]

.

 

So my question/thesis at this point is along the lines of:

 

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

Or that the defined order, where one of the above is true, simply isn't true.

 

That's why there's a stink. Maybe?

 

Nope.

 

Infidelity proves that the WS is selfish enough to take actions for their own pleasure and benefit that knowingly and intentionally betrays the love and trust of the person that they love.

 

It doesn't prove that they don't love them...it simply proves that they put their own wants and desires above the welfare of their spouse.

 

It's not a reflection of the love or feelings in the marriage...but a reflection of the values and morals of the WS...at that point in time.

 

I can't guess as to what you actually felt for your H, WW. But I can say that from what I've seen of your posts here on LS...it's clear that you place much more value on what you want than you do on what the cost was to your H for you to get what you want.

 

You focus on love and limerance and try to wax poetic about it...but I've never seen any indication that you truly regretted the cost he paid for your choices.

[silktricks]

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

 

You could just as easily claim that because the WS hides the affair from the BS that shows the WS truly love the BS and the affair is simply a "playtime".

 

In some cases what you claim is true. The WS is straying and no longer loves the BS. In some cases the WS loves the BS and is only playing with the OW. And in some cases the WS love both the BS and the OW/OM.

 

There is no universal answer to infidelity and why it happens, as all people are not the same. According to statistics, when men stray they tend to actually want to stay married and are simply dallying with playing around. When women stray, however, it tends to be because they have given up on the marriage.

 

But, why the pain? I agree with the prior posters - because of the betrayal and broken promises.

[Spark1111]

On the thread 'cheating normal?' the general discussion pointed in favour of this being so, but that certain ethical guidelines make people capable of long term fidelity. And on the whole, this was favoured, even if deviations were in the main understood.

 

So I want to ask: Why the big stink?

 

I don't really judge people badly if they show infidelity, if they also show some honesty about what they do. I don't like serial cheaters or players, as they seem to have lost any soul in their sexual encounters. Mainly because I could not imagine feeling good in myself if I were like that.

 

One friend told me tonight she would like to have sexual encounters with others, but she doesn't because it would cause her partner too much hurt. She has no desire for a new 'love' though.

 

As I have been in love, I understand fidelity. Being in love does preclude the love of others, and that exclusivity is both natural and bonding.

 

So my question/thesis at this point is along the lines of:

 

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

Or that the defined order, where one of the above is true, simply isn't true.

 

That's why there's a stink. Maybe?

 

I think infidelity shows that you, your love, and your vows of fidelity were not of enough importance to your WS to keep them from emotionally or physically being with another. Ouch!

 

It also is inherently dishonest in that the WS did not disclose feelings for another and had either given you an opportunity to correct what was wrong and unmet, or move on. IDishonesty and secrecy are ultimately cowardly, manipulative and controlling.

 

It is the lying and deception that kills. I do not know how to drive this point home other than to ask OW/OM to sit and think really hard how they would feel to discover their MP, their soulmate, had another OW/OM that they were saying the same terms of endearment to as they did to you.

 

Your love affair is then a sham, a lie, a deceit. Like a marriage when one partner has an affair, IMO.

[Got it]

I think rejection, in any form, causes pain. Rejection, while very common, is something we rarely become immune to.

[fooled once]

On the thread 'cheating normal?' the general discussion pointed in favour of this being so, but that certain ethical guidelines make people capable of long term fidelity. And on the whole, this was favoured, even if deviations were in the main understood.

 

So I want to ask: Why the big stink?

 

I don't really judge people badly if they show infidelity, if they also show some honesty about what they do. I don't like serial cheaters or players, as they seem to have lost any soul in their sexual encounters. Mainly because I could not imagine feeling good in myself if I were like that.

 

One friend told me tonight she would like to have sexual encounters with others, but she doesn't because it would cause her partner too much hurt. She has no desire for a new 'love' though.

 

As I have been in love, I understand fidelity. Being in love does preclude the love of others, and that exclusivity is both natural and bonding.

 

So my question/thesis at this point is along the lines of:

 

Infidelity proves to both the partner and the WS that the WS is capable of straying and that means they don't love the BS, or they are players.

 

Or that the defined order, where one of the above is true, simply isn't true.

 

That's why there's a stink. Maybe?

 

Or that the cheater is seflish? why do you believe a cheater doesn't love the spouse? Does the cheater not love the OW because he stays with the spouse? I am not following your logic.

 

So a serial cheater is bad, but a person who cheats on a spouse is okay if they can explain themselves its okay?

 

I think if you really were in love and that person cheated on you, you would be devastated wheel. I think you really want to find some loophole in the affair; and I think you still hang onto the xMM and I think the entire situation has really damaged you I think you are questioning so many past relationships and feelings and I am sorry you are still hurting.

 

You seem like a person who loves whole heartedly; and unfortunately, you gave your heart to someone who wasn't worthy of having it.

[princessmermaid]

As I have been in love, I understand fidelity. Being in love does preclude the love of others, and that exclusivity is both natural and bonding.

 

I don't understand the origin of this presumption. Loving any one person does not seem to decrease the capacity to love others: talk about siblings, parents, children, or platonic friends -- these are different types of love than romantic love, but are still love. Even children and friends sometimes want to know if they are the favorite.

 

The big problem seems to be broken trust. If the WS has lied to cover up the A, then the BS can't believe anything they ever say again. Without trust, the relationship can't survive. Is that why people suggest love is not real unless it's exclusive?

 

I do agree that real love requires trust. And a lot of it. I don't agree that love is fake if not exclusive.

[OldOnTheInside]

So I want to ask: Why the big stink?

Betrayal hurts. It is pretty much all of the baggage (and there is a lot of baggage) that comes with being betrayed, as well as the act itself. Not even specific to affairs WW. Seems pretty universal.

 

You get stabbed in the back. It's going to hurt. You get stabbed in the back by somebody you know closely. That's just twisting the dagger. You get stabbed in the back by somebody that you trust. Replace the dagger with a chainsaw.

 

As somebody that has been both the betrayer and betrayee in some truly sh*tty situations, I have no idea how anyone could see the act of betrayal, or any of the variables that come along with it, in a particularly positive light. Unless the betrayer is simply a d*ck. Which isn't really that rare.

[wheelwright]

Betrayal hurts. It is pretty much all of the baggage (and there is a lot of baggage) that comes with being betrayed, as well as the act itself. Not even specific to affairs WW. Seems pretty universal.

 

You get stabbed in the back. It's going to hurt. You get stabbed in the back by somebody you know closely. That's just twisting the dagger. You get stabbed in the back by somebody that you trust. Replace the dagger with a chainsaw.

 

As somebody that has been both the betrayer and betrayee in some truly sh*tty situations, I have no idea how anyone could see the act of betrayal, or any of the variables that come along with it, in a particularly positive light. Unless the betrayer is simply a d*ck. Which isn't really that rare.

 

Everything hurts if you let it.

 

Given the stats, everyone who asserts themselves as a die hard will never cheat person, will likely be betrayed.

 

One or the other in the R will likely do so.

 

I am thinking if we revised our expectations, we would hurt less when it happened. It won't not hurt, agreed. But it would be a more normal kind of hurt which didn't wreck the BS's self-esteem or confidence. That would be a good thing.

 

I am talking hypothetically rather than advocating. I don't know.

[xxoo]

Everything hurts if you let it.

 

Given the stats, everyone who asserts themselves as a die hard will never cheat person, will likely be betrayed.

 

One or the other in the R will likely do so.

 

I am thinking if we revised our expectations, we would hurt less when it happened. It won't not hurt, agreed. But it would be a more normal kind of hurt which didn't wreck the BS's self-esteem or confidence. That would be a good thing.

 

I am talking hypothetically rather than advocating. I don't know.

 

Revise our expectations from honesty? No, thanks!

 

It would hurt less if people would be honest about attractions and interests outside the marriage, and let their partner in on the changing story of the relationship instead of finding out they've been played for a fool. That would go a long way toward protecting the potentially BS's self-esteem and confidence. It would hurt if my H told me he'd stopped loving me, but not nearly as much as discovering an affair.

[bentnotbroken]

Revise our expectations from honesty? No, thanks!

 

It would hurt less if people would be honest about attractions and interests outside the marriage, and let their partner in on the changing story of the relationship instead of finding out they've been played for a fool. That would go a long way toward protecting the potentially BS's self-esteem and confidence. It would hurt if my H told me he'd stopped loving me, but not nearly as much as discovering an affair.

 

 

Here, here. Given the stats it says more about the dishonest nature of a number of people but those who aren't should adjust....I agree with you, NO THANKS.

[MissBee]

Revise our expectations from honesty? No, thanks!

It would hurt less if people would be honest about attractions and interests outside the marriage, and let their partner in on the changing story of the relationship instead of finding out they've been played for a fool. That would go a long way toward protecting the potentially BS's self-esteem and confidence. It would hurt if my H told me he'd stopped loving me, but not nearly as much as discovering an affair.

 

Agreed....

 

I can be flexible about lots but revising my standards and expectations to one in which I expect lying....no. I however cannot say much about someone else who feels that is what they need to do to not feel hurt.

 

I cannot stop a man from cheating but I will not work his cheating capability into my scheme of acceptance. I desire a relationship where we can communicate changes and be forthright as you've said.

[JaneyAmazed]

Everything hurts if you let it.

 

Given the stats, everyone who asserts themselves as a die hard will never cheat person, will likely be betrayed.

 

One or the other in the R will likely do so.

 

I am thinking if we revised our expectations, we would hurt less when it happened. It won't not hurt, agreed. But it would be a more normal kind of hurt which didn't wreck the BS's self-esteem or confidence. That would be a good thing.

 

I am talking hypothetically rather than advocating. I don't know.

 

 

I've never been a BS but my mom has and of course my husband has. I've learned a lot from the both of them. In my opinion, no matter what your expectations are, you can't predict how much something will hurt. I don't think you can control what emotions result from betrayal. You'd like to believe that it wouldn't affect your self-esteem or confidence if you changed your expectations, but it would. If your love for the person is the same, then the emotions resulting from betrayal would be the same. There's really no way to prepare for betrayal.

[Spark1111]

Everything hurts if you let it.

 

Given the stats, everyone who asserts themselves as a die hard will never cheat person, will likely be betrayed.

 

One or the other in the R will likely do so.

 

I am thinking if we revised our expectations, we would hurt less when it happened. It won't not hurt, agreed. But it would be a more normal kind of hurt which didn't wreck the BS's self-esteem or confidence. That would be a good thing.

 

I am talking hypothetically rather than advocating. I don't know.

 

WW, given the stats, HALF THE PEOPLE in those same supposedly loveless marriages DO NOT CHEAT.

 

Why? Think about that.

 

Stats can be used to either justify or negate anything.

 

If we do NOT RISK, we can never fully trust, we can then never truly be in love or know true intimacy.

 

The level of pain is in direct proportion to the level of love and trust one invests in another.

[Owl]

Here's a thought...I sorta get WW's comment.

 

If you ENTER into a relationship with no expectation of committment or fidelity...and it's a clear understanding on both sides, and both sides work to ensure that this expectation doesn't change over the course of the relationship...no one would be hurt.

 

But...you can't change that expectation in the middle of the relationship without setting your partner up for huge amounts of emotional devestation.

 

You can't unilaterally make that change (one way or another) in the middle of a relationship and not expect to hurt someone.

 

The problem with this is that it doesn't work that way.

 

The vast majority of people don't enter into a relationship with these expectations...and probably wouldn't pursue a relationship under these 'conditions' either, unless they completely agreed with that mindset beforehand.

 

And people change...and often expectations can change in a relationhip. They may enter a relationship not expecting monogamy...but then come to expect it (and end up hurting themselves and their partner as a result). Or they start a relationship expecting it to be monogamous...only to be betrayed later.

 

It's like communism...it's great on paper, but it totally doesn't normally work out well just given it's disregard of human nature.

[donnamaybe]

Revise our expectations from honesty? No, thanks!

 

It would hurt less if people would be honest about attractions and interests outside the marriage, and let their partner in on the changing story of the relationship instead of finding out they've been played for a fool. That would go a long way toward protecting the potentially BS's self-esteem and confidence. It would hurt if my H told me he'd stopped loving me, but not nearly as much as discovering an affair.

Great post! I completely agree that the sneaking and lying only exacerbate any hurt that may occur.

[Mimolicious]

Are you asking what is the big stink about infidelity? I read the whole thing but wasn't sure of the actual question.

 

 

Me either. What's really the next question?