udolipixie Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Either you believe that each sexual act devalues the woman in certain men's eyes, or you do not. If you do not believe that, then you can not logically claim that describing the sex act as taking something from the woman is a fair description conditioned on sex itself reducing value. If you claim that the number of partners a woman has reduces a woman's value in certain men's eyes, that is irrelevant to the question of whether a man is taking something from a woman EVERY TIME HE HAS SEX WITH HER because only a tiny portion of sex acts involve first sex with a new partner. My claim that the number of partners a woman has reduces her value in most men's eyes is relevant because that's my stance. My stance was never that a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her. You're the one who brought in a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her by stating I said that men think a woman loses value each time she has sex. That men take something every time they have sex was not what this discussion was about. The discussion was about the portrayal that in consensual sex a man takes something away from a woman. The difference being we're not talking about every time but in an instance or instances. We're talking about an instance because of the OP's oh he used me thought. My point was that there is a case in which in consensual sex a man takes something from a woman. I already showed the case using the difference in the stigma between men with a lot of partners and women with a lot of partners. Being stigmatized unequally is giving the message that in consensual sex man takes something from a woman. That something he takes away is her value/ indication of the respect she has for herself. Using the men & women are different line (aka "men work for sex/women give it away") gives the impression that only men can take away value & women can only lose their value. The stigma of a woman having a lot of consensual sex being of low value or having no respect for herself implies that in consensual sex the man can take something from a woman. She can have sex but if the numbers of partners increase she is losing value therefore that is the case in which in consensual the man is taking something from a woman. Her partners do not get the stigma she does because her partners take her value from her and how do they do it through sex. I also showed this case of a lot of partners devalue a woman because despite being consensual in the sex the man takes something from her with the master key/sh*tty lock example. The stigma's underlying process is that value is something that a man can take from a woman during sex but it doesn't happen unless she has a lot of partners. That what I've been saying all this time does not equal what you brought in under a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her. If anything what you brought in a man takes a woman's values every time she has sex is irrelevant because that was not being discussed & it only came up because you incorrectly thought I said it. Not sure how you thought I said it when you haven't shown where I stated that or implied that & admit to not being able to show me.
udolipixie Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Ugh too many spaces even for me Paragraphs here My claim that the number of partners a woman has reduces her value in most men's eyes is relevant because that's my stance. My stance was never that a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her. You're the one who brought in a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her by stating I said that men think a woman loses value each time she has sex. That men take something every time they have sex was not what this discussion was about. The discussion was about the portrayal that in consensual sex a man takes something away from a woman. The difference being we're not talking about every time but in an instance or instances. We're talking about an instance because of the OP's oh he used me thought. My point was that there is a case in which in consensual sex a man takes something from a woman. I already showed the case using the difference in the stigma between men with a lot of partners and women with a lot of partners. Being stigmatized unequally is giving the message that in consensual sex man takes something from a woman. That something he takes away is her value/ indication of the respect she has for herself. Using the men & women are different line (aka "men work for sex/women give it away") gives the impression that only men can take away value & women can only lose their value. The stigma of a woman having a lot of consensual sex being of low value or having no respect for herself implies that in consensual sex the man can take something from a woman. She can have sex but if the numbers of partners increase however each new guy she is having sex with takes from her value. Therefore that is the case in which in consensual the man is taking something from a woman. * Edit: can /= will I also showed this case of a lot of partners devalue a woman because despite being consensual in the sex the man takes something from her with the master key/sh*tty lock example. The stigma's underlying process is that value is something that a man can take from a woman during sex but it doesn't happen unless she has a lot of partners. That what I've been saying all this time does not equal what you brought in under a man is taking something from a woman every time he has sex with her. If anything what you brought in a man takes a woman's values every time she has sex is irrelevant because that was not being discussed & it only came up because you incorrectly thought I said it. Not sure how you thought I said it when you haven't shown where I stated that or implied that & admit to not being able to show me. Whoa this has gone on pretty long & my posts explaining and correcting you on what you incorrectly assumed because of your bias towards the subject are more than posts helping the OP. Sorry OP. As I stated before OP get therapy. Suicidal thoughts should be addressed (death wishing & wanting to die count as suicidal thoughts to me) For next purely sexual encounters get a guy who respects/treats well the women he has sex with.
fruitxcore Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Long time lurker here: After reading both sides of the argument (although the original topic has been somewhat derailed)... I will have to agree with udolipixie. Lots of books, thoughts and research has been done on this subject between portrayals of sex between men and women. Women are seen as the "gatekeepers" to sex as something intrinsic they control/guard against the wanton devices of "lecherous" men. Historically virgins were seen as prized, whereas more promiscuous women were seen as lacking value/class/virtue. As a man it is really difficult to understand this pressure on women in terms of sexual relationships and the subconscious and conscious influences on how women are portrayed.
aliceinchains Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I don't think that just because a women sleeps with a lot of men that makes her a high maintenance drama queens. I believe that insecure women feel that men who take advantage of them are more attractive and they think that guys who treat them with respect have no value because if they're insecure they think any guy who values them do not have value, which is bull **** If you look at the OP's other posts it appears she is talking about the same guy who has used her for the last two years, in a post in April she talks about how this guy talks **** behind her back. Other posts she says he yelled at her for nothing and made her cry. It should be aware that she has been told many times to get rid of him, but she does not know how to do it and get over him, she keeps going back because he keeps bugging her while at the same time he sleeps with other girls. The guy is a player who loves to hurt women. To the original poster: How much longer do you want to remain unhappy? dump him, go see a therapist and move on.
Recommended Posts