Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Hi all. Some of you may know my story or parts of it... For ppl who don't I'll give you a quick background before I ask my questions... Married 19 years Separated last September for 2 months. Now separated again for the past 5 weeks.. Yes there was infidelity on my part in the fall... Here is where I am at... I know there is love there for him deep within my heart. He loves me too. One of our issues, though, is we have a very dysfunctional sex life and have for many, many years. We ARE like brother and sister. Not only that, I have so much resentment built up (as I'm sure he does) BUT I cannot seem to get past it. There are so many things that I've made clear to him that I really need changed if we are to move forward and he just doesn't get it.. which makes me so upset, angry, defeated. I WANT to make this work... more than anything else in this world !!! There is a huge ball of yarn here and I don't know how to untangle it I keep thinking that I do know how my resentment may start to heal... and that would be if he really 'hears me' and if some things can change... but he just seems so oblivious ... doesn't matter how many times I ask or how clear I make myself !! Tonight I was punching my steering wheel just out of frustration !! I have asked him to go away with me for a couple days in 2 weeks and then also spend a couple days alone together at our marital home... That way we can really seriously talk about things and reconnect PLUS then come home and try to implement them at home. I don't want my marriage to end but honestly I'm feeling more and more disconnected as time goes by and it's tough to see our lives play out like this. Thanks for reading.
Woggle Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Just end this already and put this marriage out of it's misery. You can't change who he is and I bet he probably feels like he can't do anything right at this point in time so why delay the inevitable? What exactly do you want from him that he isn't willing to give?
StoneCold Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 How long has the resentment been going on for? because I doubt a little trip and a few days together is going to make it go away...resentment is like a cancer of the bone...deep routed and spreads everywhere
quankanne Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 the only way the resentment will end is if you give up your expectations and readjust your perception of your relationship. Unfortunately, it's not easy when it comes to marriage, because sex is such an important part of intimacy ... you shouldn't be expected to give up your right to a healthy sexual relationship with your spouse ... and he shouldn't be expected to, either. It sounds like maybe y'all have it the point of no return unless you BOTH decide to reinvent the marriage, you know? am hoping that he's willing to really discuss this so that you have a better idea of where y'all are headed ...
robf1971 Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 . We ARE like brother and sister. Or you see him like a child, thats where the loss of attraction comes in. My marriage was in a very similar situation as yours minus any infidelity. When my wife finally agreed to go to MC, the therapist got to the bottom of it in about 4 sessions. Must be quite common I think. True enough by the time we got to MC I'd done about 6 months of cutting out the anxiety, complaining , passive aggressive behaviour but she was not sexually attracted to me and saw us as "brother sister". The basic premise of the therapist is "How can a mother be attracted to someone she sees as a child" Over the next couple of months I turned that behaviour around, stuck up for myself and her, got more of my own life, pushed my self into my business more. Then one night we went on a date and in the car afterwards kissed me like she'd not done for 2 years, In about 5 seconds things had changed back. I'm happy to report our attraction is back with a vengeance on both our parts. Yes, there was resentment, but it's amazing how quickly you forget about it when your relationship is properly good again. Anyway we tried all that reconnecting going on holiday crap over the last couple of years, it just puts the pressure on and doesn't work, best to get to the root cause.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Thank you all for your comments thus far.... I guess I feel the most resentment from the feeling of being abandoned and also from giving everything I got for so many years just to have him take it all for granted and in turn becoming complacent. Through the week, life is so busy and we don't always act like a couple... more like two ppl passing by each other and also as two parents to our children (which is fine) BUT on the weekends, I've been really feeling so down because it's a time when I feel like maybe, just maybe I can have my husband's attention and well what happens is... he gets up fairly early and just goes out to the barn or outside and does whatever... It is a huge let down. Whenever I felt his body leave the bed it was like he took a piece of my soul with him. Closer to the end, I resorted to just laying there with tears in my eyes and then came the anger. At the very end, it was just anger and then numbness. Through the week, he would mention the weekend to me and sometimes I would just say "The weekend is just another 2 days to get through" Have I told him about this? Yes. I've asked him to stay with me for an extra couple hours on weekend mornings and not specifically for any reason other than just to feel his presence. Holding me or sex would be a bonus but again.. of course that never happened and closer to the end I never initiated either. BUT even though I had asked him about this... he only did it for 1 weekend. The other day I mentioned it and he totally doesn't even recall me asking. A couple years ago, he would even just go out to the barn every night after work and only come in when I called him in for supper and then out he went again. I remember feeling the same loneliness... it hurts. Also, over the years he has 'collected' various cars... some for fun... some to use parts off of in order to put on the cars we are using now... which is great BUT it's resulted in a line up of older cars all along the one side of our property. This... making me feel once again like this place belongs to him. The place belongs to both of us but I have so much resentment built up about it, for all the reasons above, that I almost hate the place. Our marriage counselor practically begged him to let us move (which we've talked about here and there) BUT all he says is that he will never find another place with a nice detached garage/barn and this land, etc... and it's funny because in my mind, I could live in a cardboard box as long as it was with someone I love and who pays me attention and loves me .. There was a time when he seriously considered moving and I pictured a home with maybe a fireplace that we could sit beside together and cuddle and all he could talk about was that he better find a place with a huge garage again. The lack of sexual satisfaction on my part is just another piece of the muddled up ball of yarn that I can't seem to get figured out. As all this has unfolded, so has the lack of connection and intimacy. It's just not seen as a priority to him.... I get so frustrated and angry and sad... and now, once again, it's up to me to dig and try to figure out how to get this all right.... I looked into couple's retreats but forget that ! The cost is outrageous and well I am hoping I can find a nice place for us to go camping and just spend hours on end talking and hopefully getting close physically. Also, for so many years, I have done all the things he likes when it comes to outings... I made myself 'get into' certain things that he likes so that we could do them together (some of the things I like anyway but mostly it was just to spend time with him) THAT is my fault. To answer your questions, the resentment has been going on for many years... too many years * sigh * Rob, thank you for sharing. That gives me hope. I do want to reconnect with him BUT this huge wall of resentment only comes down the odd time.. Sometimes it takes me having a couple drinks and sometimes it takes just being away from the house for a bit... BUT it's like this small window of opportunity before the wall comes back. He is a good person and he loves me. I just don't know if we have what it takes to get through this.... I really would love to sell that house and have a fresh start but that may not solve anything either idk. Edited July 3, 2011 by Lexygirl
manup Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Not to be a a dick, but were you always so needy from the beginning? Just wondering so I can avoid someone like you. I know I'd never be able to make someone like you happy.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 Not to be a a dick, but were you always so needy from the beginning? Just wondering so I can avoid someone like you. I know I'd never be able to make someone like you happy. Let's just say no woman should consider marrying a man like YOU if you think wanting to spend time with my husband is being needy... In fact I am a very independant woman.
cheergirl Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Not to be a a dick, but were you always so needy from the beginning? Just wondering so I can avoid someone like you. I know I'd never be able to make someone like you happy. "not to be a dick?" Too late...
cheergirl Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Thank you all for your comments thus far.... I guess I feel the most resentment from the feeling of being abandoned and also from giving everything I got for so many years just to have him take it all for granted and in turn becoming complacent. Through the week, life is so busy and we don't always act like a couple... more like two ppl passing by each other and also as two parents to our children (which is fine) BUT on the weekends, I've been really feeling so down because it's a time when I feel like maybe, just maybe I can have my husband's attention and well what happens is... he gets up fairly early and just goes out to the barn or outside and does whatever... It is a huge let down. Whenever I felt his body leave the bed it was like he took a piece of my soul with him. Closer to the end, I resorted to just laying there with tears in my eyes and then came the anger. At the very end, it was just anger and then numbness. Through the week, he would mention the weekend to me and sometimes I would just say "The weekend is just another 2 days to get through" Have I told him about this? Yes. I've asked him to stay with me for an extra couple hours on weekend mornings and not specifically for any reason other than just to feel his presence. Holding me or sex would be a bonus but again.. of course that never happened and closer to the end I never initiated either. BUT even though I had asked him about this... he only did it for 1 weekend. The other day I mentioned it and he totally doesn't even recall me asking. A couple years ago, he would even just go out to the barn every night after work and only come in when I called him in for supper and then out he went again. I remember feeling the same loneliness... it hurts. Also, over the years he has 'collected' various cars... some for fun... some to use parts off of in order to put on the cars we are using now... which is great BUT it's resulted in a line up of older cars all along the one side of our property. This... making me feel once again like this place belongs to him. The place belongs to both of us but I have so much resentment built up about it, for all the reasons above, that I almost hate the place. Our marriage counselor practically begged him to let us move (which we've talked about here and there) BUT all he says is that he will never find another place with a nice detached garage/barn and this land, etc... and it's funny because in my mind, I could live in a cardboard box as long as it was with someone I love and who pays me attention and loves me .. There was a time when he seriously considered moving and I pictured a home with maybe a fireplace that we could sit beside together and cuddle and all he could talk about was that he better find a place with a huge garage again. The lack of sexual satisfaction on my part is just another piece of the muddled up ball of yarn that I can't seem to get figured out. As all this has unfolded, so has the lack of connection and intimacy. It's just not seen as a priority to him.... I get so frustrated and angry and sad... and now, once again, it's up to me to dig and try to figure out how to get this all right.... I looked into couple's retreats but forget that ! The cost is outrageous and well I am hoping I can find a nice place for us to go camping and just spend hours on end talking and hopefully getting close physically. Also, for so many years, I have done all the things he likes when it comes to outings... I made myself 'get into' certain things that he likes so that we could do them together (some of the things I like anyway but mostly it was just to spend time with him) THAT is my fault. To answer your questions, the resentment has been going on for many years... too many years * sigh * Rob, thank you for sharing. That gives me hope. I do want to reconnect with him BUT this huge wall of resentment only comes down the odd time.. Sometimes it takes me having a couple drinks and sometimes it takes just being away from the house for a bit... BUT it's like this small window of opportunity before the wall comes back. He is a good person and he loves me. I just don't know if we have what it takes to get through this.... I really would love to sell that house and have a fresh start but that may not solve anything either idk. Hi lexygirl, i've read some of your posts and it's heartbreaking... i can't help you but I know how you feel.. Like you're slowly dying inside? I can't offer advice, i do feel for you, good luck...
Author Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 Hi lexygirl, i've read some of your posts and it's heartbreaking... i can't help you but I know how you feel.. Like you're slowly dying inside? I can't offer advice, i do feel for you, good luck... YES !! That's how I started to feel... I have totally explained it like that... 'Dying a slow death' Thank you
manup Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 No I have family that have been together for ages and one thing I've noticed is that the women aren't in constant need of affection 24/7. It's just an observation. Anyway didn't you cheat on your husband? You should just leave already, you have ridiculous standards and you're incredibly selfish. All you do is ramble about your problems, have you ever considered his. Plus it sounds like you cheated with a bunch of guys. If him not leaving you after finding that out doesn't tell you that he loves you than your just plan crazy. People like you make me really scared to tie the knot.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 LOL .. obviously you didn't read my posts very well... I never said that I don't think he loves me.. in fact I said that I know he loves me... that isn't the issue here and well you are obviously very young and naive so don't bother posting since you don't have a clue what it's like to live in a long term relationship.
Woggle Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 It sounds like you are resentful of his hobbies and 9 times out of 10 when a woman tries to compete with that she loses. It's best to make peace with it and when a man doesn't feel anymore pressure then he will try to connect again. As long as you make it a tug of war he will tug back. I am not saying he is blameless but the mistake you are making is placing the responsibility for your happiness squarely on him which is a mistake many women make.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 On the contrary, Woggle. I want him to have his hobbies. I've always told him that! I want him to be happy ! Everyone needs to be able to tap into their passions. It's just that communication is so important ! If he says to me that he needs to go out and do this or that... fine.... Most of the time I have my own things to do anyway and I do know how to appease myself and I do have my own interests ! BUT there are times when I truly would love for us to be together for a bit longer... especially lately and yes... part of it is the sex/closeness. If this cannot be part of our lives then I don't see the point in being married tbh.
manup Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 LOL .. obviously you didn't read my posts very well... I never said that I don't think he loves me.. in fact I said that I know he loves me... that isn't the issue here and well you are obviously very young and naive so don't bother posting since you don't have a clue what it's like to live in a long term relationship. And you know this because? I've been in many LTR's and never cheated I ended them or we ended them when we needed to.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 4, 2011 Author Posted July 4, 2011 Anyone else have some 'un-selfcentred' advice or input please?
luvbun80 Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 I've been in many LTR's. I am afraid that is an oxymoron my dear.
Woggle Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 If you are fine with his hobbies what exactly do you want from him? From your post it seems that you very much resent his cars.
manup Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 I am afraid that is an oxymoron my dear. I meant it in context of course. It's really only been about 4 or 5 which is more than most people my age.
robf1971 Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 great BUT it's resulted in a line up of older cars all along the one side of our property. Lol no woman would separate me from cars, , does he see you as nagging about it a lot? I mean even if you don't see it that way I bet he does.. Does he stick up for himself? Is this whole going out on his own is a passive aggresive thing? I bet his self respect is in the cr*pper too, which is probably why you don't have respect for him. I've lived this from a male point of view and that's how it was for me. I was passive aggresive to the nth degree, I believe this is a massive turnoff for any woman. You also need to understand, I was doing this damage for years and years, just like your relationship but also, she had to change, this is where you have to look at yourself? Ask yourself, am I nagging? am I showing him respect? Your hubby should be feeling like he is the most important thing in the world to you and vice versa. Crumbs my W hates cars with a passion but she still brought me tickets to the motor racing and sat watching with me in the freezing cold, in the same way as I go to see romcom movies with her.
Author Lexygirl Posted July 4, 2011 Author Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) Thanks for insight, once again, Rob. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that I've finally come to realize that the property feels even more like his than 'our's because of how many of his things occupy it... It's almost like a metaphor for our lives. I don't 'nag' as such.. I bring it up every so often ... maybe once a year that I'd like him to get some of those cars the heck out of there lol. Him being passive agressive? Perhaps. As far as doing things in order to help our relationship.... I try to sacrifice where I can (ie... going fishing in the cold lol) and so does he. I just don't know if we are willing to do the ultimate sacrifices it takes to make this marriage heal and then move on til eternity. Edited July 4, 2011 by Lexygirl
awakenedatlast Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Lexygirl, I've read some of your posts and related to them. The feeling of dying inside, especially. This thread has brought me out of a long lurkdom. I've been trying to work on my marriage, and myself, for some time now. There are ups and downs. I nearly had an affair this spring when I felt that no matter what I did, said or tried nothing seemed to REALLY get through to him, I felt that I was the one making 80-90 percent of the efforts, and I felt 'what the hell!' this could be my only chance of happiness. I couldn't go through with things in the end, broke off all contact with the OM, told my husband about it which was a HUGE wake up call for both of us actually, and we're in therapy, both together and separately since then. Without wanting to 'bash' him, my husband is several light years behind me in self-awareness (and you'll see that I am not so bright, or wasn't until until recently) , so progress is slow, and I get frustrated a lot. Frustrated with the situation, myself, him and also recently my IC therapist who I felt has been pushing me down the road to leave. These are some things that have helped me, although I am still not where I want to be, but progress has been made (within myself and in our marriage), not least through LOTS of reading and introspection. Self Matters by Dr Phil Too Good to leave, too Bad to stay (or whatever the word order) by Mira Kirshenbaum (?) The Divorce Remedy, Michele Weiner-Davies (which I had already read but went back to) Please Understand Me (about Myers-Briggs personality types) The site 'baggagereclaim' The first two, for accepting that that my needs are valid, learning about boundaries, and putting things into perspective (making me take steps to get out of my 'relationship ambivalence') The third for some concrete advice and tools on the same, not always easy to follow or put into practice, but simple (I think the author herself describes it that way) The fourth for (and I get that this might sound crazy) just understanding that we are all so different in the way we see the world and function, and recognising that my husband and I really are polar opposites emotionally, and that it doesn't make either of us right or wrong, normal or particularly abnormal (which is how he made me feel) The site, for excellent insight into mistakes I have made (or nearly made with the OM), wounds I needed to heal, the 'emotionally unavailable man' (mine is, as a result of his upbringing, yours sounds a bit like this too), and helping me build myself up from a place of low self-esteem, from childhood and also in this relationship. I had several 'epiphanies' along the way: one was when I realised that we both need and want totally different things, in terms of how we need the other to show their love, for example, so while I feel like I am dying inside because we don't share the 'connection' I crave (and which OM seemed to be offering on a plate), I realised that as long as I expect my husband to 'get' me on some levels, and need the same things I do, I will be disappointed, frustrated, angry, will harbour resentment BECAUSE HE JUST CAN'T. This was what made it easier to let go of the resentment: the fact that he wasn't doing it on purpose! Even when I (think I) explain myself clearly, some of it he will try to deliver because he loves me, but because it's not something he needs or does himself, it feels unnatural. (A seemingly emotionless family of origin with the most passive aggressive style of communication I have ever come across didn't help him). And I know now that I have failed miserably too in giving him what he needs, since he has never been able to (or even tried to) express it, and what I have offered he has misinterpreted as being invasive/needy. I used to feel so abnormal, so demanding, incapable of being satisfied until I read these books. Now I know who I am, and what I need/want, and I don't feel ashamed or 'needy' about any of it. He has been very passive aggressive and dismissive in the past, invalidating my feelings and there's nothing worse than this for someone who already doesn't have the highest self-esteem (not talking professionally, or socially, where I am pretty much together) to do some serious self-doubting. Something I never could understand is when people say happiness has to come from within, not from someone else, but I think I get it now. You have to KNOW yourself, to be able to love and accept yourself, and know how to get the things that contribute to your happiness by expressing your needs in such a way that others understand, or protect yourself with appropriate boundaries, rather than being hurt because they don't just 'deliver', or letting them trample your sense of self and all that means. If you don't love yourself, you doubt yourself, you feel that your needs aren't valid, (or let the other person convince you they're not) so you don't express them, or not well, and don't set or uphold appropriate boundaries. And here you are setting yourself up to be disappointed, hurt and unhappy. When I used to say to my husband that things weren't working for me, that I wasn't happy, he would just answer 'but you have everything you could possibly need to be happy: a husband who loves you, two beautiful healthy children etc; etc...' or 'You're never satisfied' which made me feel as guilty as hell for feeling like that: an ungrateful needy b*tch. If I had felt more grounded, more sure of the validity of my needs, and how to express them, I doubt we'd be in this mess today. (Maybe I would have already got them met. Maybe we would have parted long ago...) If you do this and your husband still can't deliver, then I truly believe that maybe you (general you, me included) should walk away gracefully with no resentment, but with the assurance that you are being true to yourself. If your husband needs to spend time alone tinkering with his cars and freezing his backside off fishing with you in tow to feel loved and accepted, then he has to understand that you need physical closeness to feel loved. Totally not the same thing, but both serving the same purpose. You show you love him by not begrudging him time to tinker; he shows he loves you by the hugging and smooching and (I hope he gets the message!!!) rocking your world I am learning to better communicate these things, as is my husband. I don't have a magic wand , and I sometimes feel like you that maybe it won't be enough in the long run, that the famous love bank has been running on close to empty for too long. But I am doing my damnedest to try and work it all out and give it 110 percent until I do what my therapist keeps suggesting: give up and go and find someone who will 'get me' without all this effort, and vice versa. Why don't I do it already? Because I do still feel love for him, and we have children, and if ever we do decide to go our separate ways, it will be because we have tried everything possible to recreate a marriage where we are both fulfilled - within our marriage;) OM was offering a cake-eating possibility for me which was as tempting as it was against my principles (not judging anyone here, I totally get why some people choose to have an affair to make staying in an unsatisfying marriage bearable. Not so long ago it seemed like the only valid option if I wanted to find happiness but not pull my family apart). I don't have a crystal ball either, so I don't know where we'll be 5 years, or even one year -or heck, six months - from now, if I am honest. Maybe I WILL throw in the towel. BUT, I can honestly say that I have let go of the anger and resentment now. I don't remember but I think it was something I read in Self Matters which made it just so clear to me; I am the one who is hurting the most because of it, and as long as I held on to it, it was holding me back. The disappointment still lingers, and the idea that maybe I have wasted precious time which I can never get back. But my husband keeps saying we should focus on the future, not on the past, and that's what I am trying to do. There's so much involved (there always is, isn't there?) Long-term ED and a lousy sex life as a result of his being an ostrich about it, him being a workaholic and putting his career before everything else, which he acknowledges now and has taken steps to put right; and for those who may have read my posts from way back, he has finally started to accept the idea that taking Viagra is OKAY, so sex happens more and is better than before. I still want more in terms of frequency and quality, but recognise that we are on the right track, so am trying not to feel so frustrated. Anyway, you may already be way ahead of me here, or I could be way off the mark, but I just wanted to share a bit of my journey. Even if it doesn't help you, just know that you're not alone in struggling with your frustration, disappointment and loneliness. Sending you cyber hugs, and wishing you happiness. Within you and with your husband, if possible, if that's what you want. And if you do decide your marriage is not the best place for you, at least you will have given it your best shot. So many people just walk away or bury their head in the sand and don't even try.
manup Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 How long did you know each other before marrying? And did you always have these problems?
Author Lexygirl Posted July 5, 2011 Author Posted July 5, 2011 How long did you know each other before marrying? And did you always have these problems? We knew each other for 2 1/2 years before marrying and NO we didn't always have these problems. Many factors have come into play. I agree wholeheartedly about something you wrote on another thread... that married couples should have ongoing marriage counseling even from the beginning of a relationship even if everything is going fine AND (even if it's just once or twice a year) It truly would have helped us. ....... Don't be afraid to love, manup... these boards do not represent all married couples. Ppl come here mostly for help when things are going wrong... don't let it taint your views on relationships and marriage
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