youngskywalker Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Well not really. Here is the situation for reference. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t285322/ I half dumped my girl tonight because I didn't have the heart or the balls to go through with it. It went down like this, we had a wonderful evening together and she was back to her old self telling me how much she loves me and stuff. The night led to us wanting to sleep together in her bed. The moves started, then stopped, with her wanting to talk about how she doesn't want to have sex. So we talked about it. I told her exactly how I felt about it... how I felt deceived, tricked, manipulated ect ect. Also that sex is important to me in a bonding relationship. But most of all I stressed how it was crappy on her part to change something like sex 7 months into a relationship. She tried to put the blame on me a couple of times but I immediately smacked her down on that. I reminded her how SHE was the one who tore my clothes off on the forth date and how SHE was the one who didn't know herself well enough to stand by her standards. Her take on the whole thing was same as always: her conscience is too bothered by having sex with someone she isn't married to (which is rooted in religious reasoning fyi). She gave me an ultimatum to accept it or break up with her. She was starting to cry during this and couldn't understand why I can't love her anyway without sex because she loves me so much. I kept my cool throughout the whole thing, said I really need to think it over because I wasn't sure if I could continue with such a drastic change in our relationship. Got up, put my pants and shirt on, said goodbye and left. On my way home she called me on the cell pleading her case on how she doesn't want me to leave her. In her mind the sexual part is exclusive from the emotional part in a relationship. I said they go hand in hand for me. That's the short story. To keep the OP short I left out minor details but can give more if anyone is interested. I'll add one more thing... I don't want to actually break up with her. I know everyone says do it, but I can't and probably won't. I love her. The most I can hope for in this is to gain an upper hand somehow. I already know what you're all going to say but at the end of the day, I have to do what I feel. Still, I'd like to hear your perspective.
shadowofman Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Dude. A woman that admits that sex and love are exclusive. That's a keeper! That means you can love her and have sex with other women.
johan Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 I think you were right to handle it like you did. But the focus on sex is misplaced, it seems to me. What is more important is her assumption that she gets to set the terms in your relationship, and consulting you or taking into account your feelings is not necessary. This is more about respect and compassion, and really it might be about what each of you thinks a relationship is supposed to be about. Whether the necessary adjustments can be made it's hard to tell.
Author youngskywalker Posted July 2, 2011 Author Posted July 2, 2011 Dude. A woman that admits that sex and love are exclusive. That's a keeper! That means you can love her and have sex with other women. True words of wisdom. I wonder how she would think if I told her I'd love her emotionally but want to date other women sexually. We all know how that would go. What is more important is her assumption that she gets to set the terms in your relationship, and consulting you or taking into account your feelings is not necessary. This is more about respect and compassion, and really it might be about what each of you thinks a relationship is supposed to be about. Whether the necessary adjustments can be made it's hard to tell. I do hope the adjustments can be made. Time will tell and I need time TIME to adjust. Incidentally, that is what I told her... if this is going to work out I need some time to adjust to it. What I'm not willing to have happen through this whole thing is to have her blatantly set the terms to our relationship. That isn't going to happen. Some how, some where, I'm going to get something out of this or I'm going to have to move on.
oaks Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Well not really. Indeed. Less "strikes back" and more "timidly walks away". Well, she's offered to break up with you with that ultimatum. The offer is to accept it or get out. Are you going to accept no sex until you marry her? Do you have some close friends you can talk to to get their opinion?
shadowofman Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Haha. I didn't say that for you to justify you demand for sex. But rather to say that I truly desire a woman that can separate love and sex. I honestly don't know how you could stop loving her just because she won't put out. If it were me, I would be compassionate about her desire for celibacy, and then explain to her that I will respect her wishes. And also that I will be attempting to get sex elsewhere. But I love her. See, I'd much rather have a girl dump me. It's easier.
Author youngskywalker Posted July 2, 2011 Author Posted July 2, 2011 Do you have some close friends you can talk to to get their opinion? Yes I do, and they've said [or would say] I should respect her and not be milking a cow unless I've bought it. For instance, I haven't told my parents the situation but I assure you they'd say I shouldn't be banging her anyway and then my old man would beat the crap out of me... figuratively speaking. So you see I'm torn on seeking advice. I know what's going to happen here as I seek advice on LS. Most are going to say break up with her but I know I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do what I think is best and that's stick with her and love her. Whoever wishes, call me a wimp. I'm simply going through the motions in my head deciding what is the best way to go about it in order to keep order in this relationship and not be run over by a woman. Haha. I didn't say that for you to justify you demand for sex. But rather to say that I truly desire a woman that can separate love and sex. I honestly don't know how you could stop loving her just because she won't put out. If it were me, I would be compassionate about her desire for celibacy, and then explain to her that I will respect her wishes. And also that I will be attempting to get sex elsewhere. But I love her. See, I'd much rather have a girl dump me. It's easier. Ummm yeah, I wouldn't have emotional feelings for any woman who was out banging other men and vise versa. If that works for you then great. What I do agree on is that it's easier to have the girl dump you. If you want out of a relationship you simply start acting like a jackass until they dump you. That's how I've always done it in the past.
shadowofman Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Haha. I have emotional feelings for women that exclusively bang men other than me. But I love easily. Yeah. Cause girls cry and ****. I'd much rather have them pissed off at me than feel pissed on by me.
thatone Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 you did gain the upper hand by pointing out that she is not in control, and cannot have everything she wants and change who she is on a whim. her fear of rejection had her crawling back to you before you even got home. you did the right thing.
oaks Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 her fear of rejection had her crawling back to you before you even got home. Well, she called, but she's still withholding sex.
thatone Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 she won't adhere to that "ultimatum" any more than she adhered to her other beliefs. she'd more likely dump him and jump into bed with some other guy a week later than that. the only mistake the OP made was listening to her ultimatum and not responding with one of his own. his instant reply to hers should've been an unequivocal "no" and he should've responded that he's not in a relationship with her priest or her religion, if she can't live her own life without the a priest's approval he won't be coming back, and she would have to decide whether being alone with her bible was worth it.
oaks Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 the only mistake the OP made was listening to her ultimatum and not responding with one of his own. his instant reply to hers should've been an unequivocal "no" and he should've responded that he's not in a relationship with her priest or her religion, if she can't live her own life without the a priest's approval he won't be coming back, and she would have to decide whether being alone with her bible was worth it. Agreed. Well, I'm not sure if that was his only mistake, but that's roughly what he should've done. Basically, call her bluff... "ok, if we're not going to have sex any more then I'm off. You've got my number when you change your mind."
thatone Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 definitely his primary mistake regardless of whether it was his only one, but generally, i think his approach to the situation was sound.
John Michael Kane Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Both of you should just break up completely.
Arasae Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Most are going to say break up with her but I know I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do what I think is best and that's stick with her and love her. I suppose, then, that my question is this: Do you want to marry this woman? If you could see yourself marrying her, I'd say stick with it. If you majorly hesitate (and I'm not talking "we've only been dating for x amount of time", I'm thinking character flaws and red flags), then maybe you should reconsider. Sometimes love isn't enough, but if you're starting to think that you want her for life, then stick by her. If not, if you're just going through the dating process and you "don't know" at this point.. I'd consider thinking long and hard about what you want vs. what you need in a relationship.
thatone Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 it's well beyond that, marrying her would be a terrible idea. she is manipulating him and using her religion as a crutch to justify her actions. sounds like she would make a lot better ex wife than wife. without him having the threat of leaving her to put her back in line her bad habits would know no bounds.
heartshaped Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 I wouldn't even consider dating less alone marrying someone's views who differ so greatly from mine. If she has all these strong religious convictions to the point of not wanting to have sex outside of marriage [which truthfully, I don't think it's that with your girl, I've read your other threads, she's just trying to manipulate you into marrying her and is using her religion as an excuse] there are going to be other incompatibilities. Also, if someone is in so much turmoil about who they are or what they believe in [going back and forth on the having sex issue] I wouldn't be dating them or less alone considering marrying them either. This whole thing is a mess, but you aren't strong enough to do what you know you should either because you "love" her. Good grief.
Author youngskywalker Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 she is manipulating him and using her religion as a crutch to justify her actions. Incidentally, growing up around religion, I've seen MANY people do that in many different areas. It's like an ace up their sleeve so you're unable to argue with them or even question their decisions. I'm hip to the whole idea and is a major issue here with me. It's not so much the sex. I can go without sex to a point but I can't be with someone who is manipulative whether intentional or not. she's just trying to manipulate you into marrying her and is using her religion as an excuse] there are going to be other incompatibilities. "The other incompatibilities" is the part that worries me. What will the next thing be? More importantly, is she going to through out the religion card? I plan to talk to her about all this stuff and get it out on the table. Right now it's in limbo. I told her I need some time away to think through everything. We did see each other yesterday, she was very affectionate and we just enjoyed the time together. I didn't see any reason to be in fight mode. I told her we need to talk but I'm not ready. I'm not going to see her again until we talk. I think she could use a little space to think things over herself.
Lucky_One Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 I thought you were going to break up with her because she won't let you go down on her? The whole non-orgasming issue? I did have a thought that she is backing off of sex because she wants to build the sexual tension back up, because the post-sexual tension sex just wasn't all that good. She needs that extra tension to really enjoy it?
Author youngskywalker Posted July 4, 2011 Author Posted July 4, 2011 I thought you were going to break up with her because she won't let you go down on her? The whole non-orgasming issue? I did have a thought that she is backing off of sex because she wants to build the sexual tension back up, because the post-sexual tension sex just wasn't all that good. She needs that extra tension to really enjoy it? Apparently she isn't building up the sexual tension. We had a long talk tonight. The upshot is this; she's serious about the no sex thing until marriage. I told her exactly how I feel about everything and all the issues about manipulation and control ect. I did gain a lot of ground in keeping control except it doesn't look like we are going to be having sex any time soon. It is what it is. Like I said before I don't want to have sex with a woman who truly has problems with her conscience. The way it ended is this. We are going to give things another try. Some of it on her terms, and some of it on my terms. I'm satisfied for now. If it doesn't work out for me in a couple of weeks or a month then I'll just move on. I don't have any other women who I'm interested in this point so I may as well give it one more time around and see how it goes. That's the short story.
thatone Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 and she's sitting there thinking she's back in control, because you compromised on her ridiculous notions. you're not doing either of you any favors. she needs to have people tell her no more often. you need to stand up for yourself. what's left to do that hasn't been done?
D-Lish Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 It's blackmail, what she's doing. It might be different if you knew what you were signing up for in the first place. The fact that she's been involved in a sexual relationship with you already and now wishes to take that away until you put a ring on her finger is really selfish and manipulative!
Author youngskywalker Posted July 4, 2011 Author Posted July 4, 2011 It's blackmail, what she's doing. It might be different if you knew what you were signing up for in the first place. The fact that she's been involved in a sexual relationship with you already and now wishes to take that away until you put a ring on her finger is really selfish and manipulative! Thank you for your reply. Your advice is the same as everyone else. I see it and I hear it but I'm really not listening to it. This might be the biggest epic fail to any dating experience in the history of the world but I have to do what my heart is telling me. Nobody knows the situation like I do and I need to take that into account. I truly thank everyone for taking the time to give their advice but in this instance I'm bucking the system. I promise to give an update in a month or two... who knows, maybe a lot sooner when I'm crying in my milk! Time will tell.
D-Lish Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Thank you for your reply. Your advice is the same as everyone else. I see it and I hear it but I'm really not listening to it. This might be the biggest epic fail to any dating experience in the history of the world but I have to do what my heart is telling me. Nobody knows the situation like I do and I need to take that into account. I truly thank everyone for taking the time to give their advice but in this instance I'm bucking the system. I promise to give an update in a month or two... who knows, maybe a lot sooner when I'm crying in my milk! Time will tell. Believe me, I've had 3 or 4 that are worse:rolleyes: That includes a marriage I entered into when we weren't the right people for one another, and we both ended up incredibly unhappy (and eventually divorced). It's been 7 months- way too soon to really know everything you should need to know about a person before marrying them. I wish you luck.
spiderowl Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 I suspect both of you are missing the point here. It's not fair of her to start withdrawing what you had before, that's true. It's not the best way to go about what she's trying to do. I think she's trying to find out if this relationship is going anywhere. Is it going beyond you and she living together and having sex? What about marriage, kids, a future together? She obviously thinks that as you have everything you need already, you have no incentive to change the status quo. She wants to see more happening, progress, a future. She's probably wondering why you haven't asked her to marry you. Why haven't you? Are you ever intending to? She's not comfortable with continuing the way things are but she doesn't want to beg you to marry her. Instead, she's rethinking things and withdrawing sex is probably as much to give her the space to think where she is in this relationship as it is to give you a jolt. Unless you resolve this 'where is it going' thing between you, this relationship is likely to falter. You are against being manipulated, which is wise. She's against drifting aimlessly without her deeper needs for security and a future being considered. I think whatever you do, you need to think about the underlying reasons for why it has come to this. Basically, she thinks you are not going to ask her to marry you and she's calling a halt to everything. It's not that she wants rid of you or that she wants to give up sex. She doesn't really know what to do to make you see that she has needs other than just sex in a relationship.
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